kwilco

Don't see that glib comparisons with neighbours makes a point. What would you conclude from this?

Thailand has been ruled by the military and a ruling elite since WW2. People overlook how fractious this elite can be...even Taksin is part of the elite...albeit a populist one. So the current coalition is not as surprising as it looks. However one has to wonder how long it will last. One can expect power struggles to start immediately. The usual process is a series of corruption and conflict of interest selections that will get rid of one lot or another. What seems less likely is a genuine popular movement. Maybe a eventually a mass demo in Bkk and then the military will step in to "sort things out". The presence of Taksin is interesting...has he brokered this deal?

THat's just conformation bias

playing th blame game is non productive

I have in fact pointed several root causes of the problem in my earlier posts - It is a problem with many who don't understand road safety or any other issue that they consider it in terms of black and white, simple dichotomies and resorting to sealioning. In fact it is far more complex than that and one needs to educate oneself on the matter - at least that's what I did. If you want to make a start a good starting place is always wiki. Of course you'll need to find out what to look up so again I'd suggest you start with "road Safety" or better still "The Safe System" THat will at least put you on the right road. BTW _i've been reading up on Thai road safety for about 20 years - so don't exper=ct to find all the answers in one go.

Over your head?

What makes you say that? In what way am I an expert? I seldom use the word expert myself – except when illustrating other people’s use of the word which I think is usually meaningless and has no bearing on the discussion. Misuse of the word “expert” is a well-known logical fallacy – a false “Appeal to authority” – it implies the argument is wrong or invalid because of claims of an “expert” or because the person is NOT an “expert” – without defining why this qualification itself is valid. Mostly people use the word to insist that a claim is true/false simply because an authority or expert on the issue said it was true, without any other supporting evidence offered It seems that in using the word “Expert” - people are actually attacking the messenger rather than the message. It’s an attempt discredit anyone who says something they don’t agree with or didn’t know. By suggesting they are an “expert” is a deliberate misuse of the concept. You need to bear in mind that the information I use is not MINE – it is that of motoring organisations, WHO, Road safety papers etc. etc. – it is the information of people who have studied road safety in depth and published their findings – most of it is there for all to see, if they bother to look.

Getting out is how I learn about this sort of stuff.

Most certainly because we don't realise how badly we speak. The biggest stumbling block is that not i=only is Thai a tonal language but on the other dside English is a stressed language. Speaker after speaker fails to understand how this works. If you listen to a Thai speaker speaking English, you often get to a point where you may not understand thm, yet they are actually saying the correct words - the problem is they are stressed incorrectly - the result is you simply can't hear that word - exactly the same happens with foreigners trying to speak Thai - they think they know the words but the succession of incorrect tones just makes it incomprehensible to a Thai person - especially one who isn't trained to listen to foreigners as they mash up the language. I hear time and again foreigners saying that they w=should be able to made sense by context etc, but they fail to do likewise with stress. It is glib "explanations" that need the sting of Occams razor they are simple solutions they are nebulous unsubstantiable concepts with no basis. THey are avoiding the simple explanations or conclusions.

I most certainly don't! I suspect you don't fully understand it yourself. - simplest explanation.

THey are just covering up their own failing - they're the same ones who usr cynicism to cover up ignorance. If you don't speak Thai you will never learn about Thailand and it's culture because the locals won't be able to communicate with of any level other than f=do you want steamed or fried rice (and I bet they choose fried)

I thought'd you'd trained in road safety... you did that too right ? Yes - It's interesting what you are implying and why - presumably because you can't imagine how people can have multiple careers or experience? You seem to be judging others by your own limitations. nice to see you read my stuff, though.

QED expat cliche - confirmation bias

It doesn't - he just thinks it does. THere is also the point that he might make more effort beg=fore speaking Thai on a phone and change his phrasing. most of this is either prejudice or confirmation bias. I have trained in languages for several decades and am aware of how people learn languages - not just Thai people but from all over the world. I have studies how people have acquired language and noted the problems and mistakes they make. One thing to bear in mind is that something like 90% of language learners over estimate their ability in whatever language they speak and are therefore much more likely to blame others for their own shortcomings.

THat is just a claim by arrogant foreigners who overestimate their ability ti use Thai language

Yes - I think that foreigners simply don't realise how bad their pronunciation is and the Thai person seems to think they are speaking English because that's what it sounds like.

I doubt if you will ever understand the problem, or Thailand, as it is told you in Thai.

I know several expats who claim to speak Thai, what they don't realise is that they are almost unintelligible - most Thai people listen politely and then guess what they are trying to say and act accordingly. THe problem here is that they assume that they are being understood which sadly is not the case. one also wonders if they understand what is actually being said to them.

THere seems to be a sickness amongst expats and teachers of English in Thailand that leads them to be condescending towards learners of English - they equate lack of ability with stupidity whilst ignoring (or overestimating) their own lack of ability. The number of expats who've said to me "I don't speak Thai, but I understand what they are saying" - how daft can you get? They don't equate their own ability with that of Thai counterparts. Firstly most Thai people know both the Thai and Roman writing systems and many know the Chinese system as well - how many expats can claim that. Thai people often speak several languages - they may speak Thai, chinese and Laos or Karen dialect as well as some English. How many languages can the average expat speak? I've heard their attempts at English or Thai and it's embarrassing. I was visiting a family one time - the mother was Thai and the father was American - I was talking to the mother in Thai. After a while the young lad said to me: - "How come you can speak Thai when my father can't?" I really couldn't think of an answer - I just blurted out something about it being part of my job to speak Thai. But really, you'd have thought that someone who has put down roots in Thailand to the extent of marriage and children, might have made an effort to learn a bit of the local language.

THat is anecdotal - the plural of anecdote is not data.

Sadly I'd disagree Why do people think they are experts on things they know nothing about. Certainly passing a driving test - of any kind is grossly overrated..... I also worry about the use of that word expert - do people really understand what that means? Is it an automatic proof that and argument is correct or validated? …… If they drive a car they think they are "experts" on driving, ….. because they went to school they are "experts" on education ……. and because they have been in hospital they think they are "experts" on health care? Many people mistake their personal experience with these topics as way more informative than it really is. They mistake the significance of personal experience (of bad habits) as a general overview of a topic far more complex than they ever conceive. It is important to be aware of the cognitive biases that can lead people to overestimate their knowledge and abilities. If you find yourself thinking that you are an "expert" on something you know little about, it is important to take a step back and assess your knowledge critically. You may be surprised at how little you actually know. Here are examples of the cognitive biases that lead to the nonsense promulgated on this thread. The Dunning-Kruger effect is when people with limited knowledge in a particular area overestimate their abilities in that area. Because they lack the knowledge and experience to actually understand how much they don't know. For instance they may think they can’t be a backseat driver because they have a driving licence Confirmation bias is when people seek out only information that confirms their existing beliefs, and ignore or dismiss information that contradicts those beliefs. These people to believe that they are "experts" on a topic even if they have only superficial knowledge of it.. They are often “one quote wonders” – e,g,, someone who believes that vaccines cause autism will only seek out information that supports that belief, and they might ignore or dismiss any evidence to the contrary. The “availability heuristic” is a mental shortcut that we use to make judgments about the likelihood of something happening based on how easily examples of it come to mind. Or how often they see them on youtube etc….. This leads people to overestimate their own expertise and they don’t realise the relative insignificance of the few examples or the times when they appeared to get it right. For example, someone who has successfully driven a car a few times might think they are an expert driver, even all they have done is driven a lot of miles or never had an accident themselves. They are like someone who backs a winner in the Derby horse race and then claims they are an expert on horse racing. Road safety isn't really to do with driving - it's understanding the science....

Full marks to the young man for efforts in learning a language. But it also begs the question of why the teacher is so patronising. We need to look more critically at how and why we value the English language in Thailand. THere seems to be a bias amongst foreigners who think that all Thais should learn English yet they refuse to learn any Thai. I note that in their home countries many think it sould be essential that immigrants learn the home langauge, but this doesn't seem to be applied to themselves in Thailand.

You see, the claim of being "accident free" as some kind of evidence shows you don't understand the fundamentals of road safety.

It's not left wing bias, it's logic.

Nonsense - as you clearly haven't identified the root of the problem any conclusions you come to will be erroneous....there's a lot to be done.