kwilco

basically you don't know how to drive in Thailand and it's no wonder because of your racially stereotyping attitude.

Your entire argument is just getting cyclic you keep returning to “they” and Thai drivers as if it is some racially stereotypical group. Basically it’s just laziness wrapped in typical expat arrogance. You seem incapable of critical thinking. (I doubt you even know what it is). ‘I see it, so it must be true’ isn’t analysis—it’s confirmation bias. Just because you notice reckless driving more in Thailand doesn’t mean it’s worse because of some magical “local attitude” problem. That’s just ignorant nonsense. Your math is laughable. More vehicles do not automatically mean more accidents—road design, law enforcement, and infrastructure determine accident rates. That’s why countries with far more cars have far fewer road deaths. But sure, keep pretending your personal observations trump decades of scientific research. And this obsession with ‘bad drivers’? Completely useless. Every country has reckless drivers, but smart countries don’t rely on the fantasy of “fixing attitudes”—they build systems that prevent human error from turning into fatalities. That’s why they have lower accident rates, and why Thailand doesn't. You suggest ‘data doesn’t reduce accidents’—which is just embarrassing. It is the key to truly understanding what is happening on Thai roads. Data drives policy, which actually works. Meanwhile, your approach—whining about ‘bad attitudes’ and playing the blame game—has changed exactly nothing. Bottom line? You’re not proving a point—you’re just making and re-making excuses for why you don’t want to or can’t think critically about road safety. If you really cared, you'd focus on solutions, not just shouting ‘bad drivers’ from the side-lines like it means something.

Sorry missed a bit - Thailand's alcohol figure in crashes is about 33%, in UK it is 20% - in the US it is 32%

Your response is nothing more than thinly veiled racial stereotyping, dressed up as ‘observable fact.’ You are putting forward an argument that is using entirely racial terms Blaming an entire nationality instead of looking at the actual causes—infrastructure, enforcement, education—is intellectually lazy and avoids any serious discussion. Saying ‘they’ means Thais because ‘they’re the ones driving in Thailand’ is like saying all Americans are obese because they live in the U.S.—it’s a meaningless generalization or syllogism that ignores data, context, and reality. You’re not ‘observing facts’—you’re cherry-picking anecdotes to reinforce your pre-existing bias. The real difference between us? I’m talking about solutions based on scientific evidence. —you’re just ranting about ‘bad Thai drivers’ like it’s some inherent trait. It’s not. It’s a product of systemic issues—which you conveniently ignore because that would require actual critical thinking instead of lazy blame. And calling me an ‘apologist’ is hilarious coming from someone who’s actively excusing government inaction by pretending this is just about ‘bad drivers.’ The reality? Your mindset is part of the problem. The rest of us are discussing actual solutions—you’re just screaming into the void."

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it's difficult to get an accurate figue as one has to define "alcohol" in a crash - it goes further than "drunk driver(s)"

pity, I've had a full licence for 20 years

How about renewing my 5 year without a visa?

Your argument boils down to ‘I see it, so it must be true,’ which is the exact opposite of how road safety is scientifically analysed. Personal anecdotes don’t trump hard data, and dismissing statistics just because they don’t fit your narrative is just wilful ignorance. Claiming ‘per capita stats don’t apply’ is outright nonsense—that’s literally how international road safety is measured. If you don’t grasp that, you’re not in a position to argue about data. And no, ‘just enforcing rules’ isn’t a magic fix. Countries that actually reduce road deaths do so through data-driven policy, not by blaming ‘bad drivers’—a useless, outdated term. At this point, you’re arguing against research, statistics, and decades of road safety science just to cling to personal bias. If you’re not willing to engage with facts, you’re not worth debating.

sorry that's a typo - 32 should read 2-wheelers - I"m surpised you dodn't work that out - I expect you did and are just fishing around for something to argue about. Not even sure what you think a "32-wheeler" is?

Sorry typo - 32 wheelers should read "2 wheelers"!

you're 50 years out of date - You will never find that in any road safety paper - it is what they have argued against in every successful road safety campaign throughout the world. Do you really think you know something they don't?

Here is a summary of a paper I read recently which basically underlines what I’ve being saying ““Their lives don't matter to politicians”: The necropolitical ecology of Thailand's dangerous and unequal roads” https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0962629823001907 Thailand’s high rate of road deaths, is a result of political, economic, and cultural factors it affects mostly the poorer classes. Here are the 5 Es…. Engineering - Poor road design, the lack of safety measures, (engineering) Enforcement - Weak enforcement of regulations, (Enforcement) Education - Insufficient driver education (Education)contribute to the crisis. Emergency - Lack of concern leads to slapdash first responder and emergency services - The concept of necropolitical ecology highlights how government inaction and neglect—rather than direct oppression—result in preventable deaths. Evaluation - A lack of coordination between agencies working on road safety, poor data collection, widespread corruption, and an ineffective lead agency, have weakened the state’s capacity to address this issue Limited public transport forces people, especially in rural areas, to rely on motorcycles and high-speed vehicles, increasing accident risks. Corruption, fragmented governance, and a lack of political will further weaken state intervention, while the public does not exert pressure on leaders to address the issue. The concept of necropolitical ecology highlights how government inaction and neglect—rather than direct oppression—result in preventable deaths, particularly among marginalized groups. This is a "silent violence”, which deprioritizes safety concerns. Without serious government reforms, and an understanding by the general public for safer roads, these issues will continue. We are looking at road safety in an authoritarian context. Hopefully the media will learn th basics of road safety and it will change how they report of road incidents and start to give campaigners a voice.

You really dont know what a fact is?

Last time I used Dr Mac was pre-covid - he was very good and low cost too.

You realise that your post is a complete waste as it neither gives advice or reference the thread?

can you do that?

Thailand is still basically a military controlled government and like all authoritarian regimes, they are obssessed with collecting data on people. THis has been going on since before WW2.

ny time something does digital in Thalland, it makes me shudder. THis is the land of websites by amateurs - presumably made up by the teenage son of the boss? THey don't ask the right questions Aren't easy to read and operate THey make assumptions and don't anticipate common mistakes THeir flow is non existent and ithe end - they simply don't work. ythere will be loads of people clicking on buttons that don't work People who aren't IT savvy enough to deal with it THere will be crowds of people wandering around looking for help. BTW - where will the forms be filled in? Before departure? On the plane??? - with wifi? On arrival? What phones will be able to work?

Staying with a friend - so they know the story? Surely if he disappeared they would have said something?

so do you agree or disagree?

What a great question! Here’s the link to the video…. https://youtu.be/gRuWVGvkgJo Note that nowhere in this video do you hear the expression “bad drivers” -or any links of this to nationality. It highlights a key point: road safety improvements are not exclusive to any one nation or culture. However, some will still try to argue in terms of race and stereotype that "Thailand is different, and these strategies won’t work here"—which implies an unfair assumption that Thais are incapable of change. History proves otherwise. The Global Road Safety is a universal science The evolution of road safety follows the history of the car in each country. Key factors include: Car ownership rates, e.g. the more cars on the road, the greater the potential for accidents. Canges in Society when countries shift from an agrarian to an industrial society impacts vehicle ownership and traffic. Many nations with high car ownership have developed their own automotive sectors not least of all Thailand. The U.S. was the first to embrace private car ownership, yet ironically, it has not led the way in road safety. Western Europe followed with its own automobile industry, and as industrialization spread globally, road deaths surged. The way each country responded depended on its government’s policies. To assess road safety, researchers usually prefer deaths per number of vehicles and distance travelled rather than per 100,000 people. For example, the U.S. has high car ownership and long driving distances., yet its crash rate per mile is lower than in some countries with fewer cars. Some African nations have low car ownership, but once someone is in a vehicle, their chances of a crash are alarmingly high much higher than Thaiand. Thailand’s progress….According to the 2023 Global Status Report on Road Safety, Thailand had a road traffic death rate of 25.4 per 100,000 people in 2021. In the past 40 years, Thailand has been transitioning from an agrarian to an industrial society. It has also developed one of the world's largest motor industries—now ranked in the top 15, surpassing the UK’s. However, many forget that back in the 1960s and 1970s, road deaths in other countries were comparable to Thailand’s are today. So, how Have Other Nations Reduced Road Deaths? - The most successful improvements have been in Northern and Western Europe. Sweden led the way by formalizing years of research into the Safe System Approach—a framework based on the principle that no one should be killed or seriously injured on the roads. The Netherlands quickly followed suit. From the 1980s onward, industrialized nations saw road deaths peak and then decline as governments introduced safety measures. Different countries had varying levels of success: France in particular had road deaths similar to Thailand’s today in the early 1970s but successfully reduced them despite less advanced car safety at the time. Let’s not forget the notorious French priority on the right rule – mirrored in Thailand – that led to the terrible French crossroads carnage The formation of the European Union helped to develop coordinated road safety strategies, precursors to the Safe System, leading to consistent declines in fatalities. The Safe System and the 5 Es The most effective road safety policies follow the 5 Es: Education – Public awareness campaigns and driver training. Enforcement – Strict traffic laws and penalties. Engineering – Safer roads and vehicle design. Emergency Response – Faster medical aid to crash victims. Evaluation – Continuous monitoring and policy adjustments. Nations that fully implemented these principles—including Sweden, the UK, and the Netherlands—have achieved single-digit road deaths per 100,000 people, moving toward Vision Zero (zero road deaths) in some countries. Other countries around the world have also made dramatic improvements by adopting Safe System principles: South Korea, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand all saw significant declines once their authorities embraced comprehensive safety policies. However, the U.S. alone has lagged behind. While the U.S. made progress in the 1970s and 1980s, it never adopted a national road safety policy. Today, it has one of the worst road safety records in the Western world. Road safety improvements don’t come from people suddenly becoming “better drivers.” They result from government-led, data-driven policies. Countries that have successfully reduced road deaths have done so by implementing all aspects of the Safe System, not just selected parts….and not a mention of “bad drivers” anywhere. If Thailand fully commits to a similar approach, there’s no reason it cannot achieve the same success.

apparently not. - there's no such thing as an accident, either

QED

OK - I'm listening.....