kwilco

The idea that road safety is ‘first the driver’s responsibility’ ignores how modern road safety actually works. Road safety is a public health issue, not just an individual responsibility. People make mistakes everywhere—it’s universal human behavior, not a Thai issue. That’s why successful road safety strategies focus on systemic solutions—better road design, effective enforcement, safer vehicles, and public education. Countries with the lowest road fatalities don’t have ‘better’ drivers—they have safer systems that reduce risks and protect people from their own (and others’) errors. Shifting the blame solely onto drivers is outdated thinking. If we want fewer crashes and deaths, we need to talk about real solutions, not just individual responsibility.

You claim to acknowledge multiple factors in road safety but still default to blaming individual drivers—ignoring decades of research showing that safe systems—not just individual responsibility—reduce accidents and fatalities. Saying 'it's the driver's responsibility first' is misleading. Of course, drivers play a role, but human error is inevitable everywhere. The difference between high-fatality and low-fatality countries isn’t driver competence—it’s how well the system protects against mistakes. Blaming Thai drivers as inherently worse ignores the fact that when Thais drive in countries with stronger enforcement, infrastructure, and road safety policies, they follow the rules just like everyone else. The issue isn’t 'bad drivers'—it’s a system that doesn’t properly manage risk. If you actually want to improve road safety, focus on scientific, data-driven solutions—not repeating stereotypes and personal observations that have no basis in real analysis."

don't bother you clearly don't understand

Driving for 50 years doesn’t automatically mean you understand road safety systems—just like being a passenger on thousands of flights doesn’t make you an aviation expert. Road safety isn’t just about ‘bad drivers’—it’s about how systems are designed to prevent mistakes from turning fatal. Blaming drivers alone ignores decades of research showing that accidents are multi-factorial. Infrastructure, vehicle safety, enforcement, emergency response, and cultural attitudes all play a role. The idea that ‘if everyone just drove responsibly, there would be no accidents’ is naive—it ignores human error, which is inevitable. That’s why developed nations focus on designing forgiving roads and safer transport systems, not just demanding ‘better drivers.’ Claiming Thailand simply has ‘more bad drivers’ is a stereotype, not an analysis. If Thai drivers were inherently worse, why do Thai people drive safely when in countries with stronger road safety policies? The difference isn’t in the drivers—it’s in the system they are driving in. If you actually want to reduce road deaths, focus on real solutions: better infrastructure, enforcement, and public awareness, not tired generalizations about Thai drivers.

"Blaming 'incompetent Thai drivers' is just another variation of racial stereotyping. Thai drivers are no more or less competent than drivers anywhere else—the difference lies in the road safety system they operate within. The claim that poor infrastructure isn’t a reason for deadly accidents is simply wrong. Road design plays a massive role in crash risk—lack of proper signage, poor lighting, unsafe intersections, and road maintenance issues all contribute to fatalities. That’s why countries with strong road safety policies focus on systemic improvements, not just blaming individuals. Expecting drivers to just 'adjust their speed' without proper enforcement, road design, and public awareness campaigns ignores how road safety actually works. A Safe System approach recognizes that people make mistakes, so roads, vehicles, and policies must be designed to reduce the consequences of those mistakes. Generalizing Thai drivers as ‘incompetent’ is lazy and unhelpful. If we want real change, we need to focus on data-driven solutions, not stereotypes."

You re continuing to fail to see the flaws in your posts which actually are off topic as I said driving more miles doesn’t automatically make someone an expert in road safety—just like watching more surgeries doesn’t make you a doctor. Observation alone isn’t analysis. Real road safety research is based on data, crash investigations, infrastructure design, and human factors—not just 'common sense' and personal impressions. The idea that 'the more you drive, the more you understand' ignores your own cognitive biases—people tend to see what confirms their beliefs and overlook broader systemic factors. That’s why experts rely on data-driven analysis, not just personal experience. If road safety were as simple as just ‘seeing more,’ we wouldn’t need engineers, policymakers, and researchers working to design safer systems."*

"Your argument is based entirely on personal anecdotes and subjective observations, rather than a proper understanding of road safety systems. Simply driving a lot of miles doesn’t make someone an expert in analyzing the root causes of crashes. Yes, unsafe driving behaviors exist in Thailand, just as they do everywhere. But blaming 'bad drivers' and 'bad enforcement' oversimplifies a much deeper issue. Road safety is about systems, not just individuals. Infrastructure, vehicle safety standards, emergency response, education, and cultural attitudes toward risk all play a role. Thailand's road safety problem won’t be solved just by ‘pulling people over’ more often. A Safe System approach recognizes that people make mistakes, so roads and policies must be designed to reduce the risk of those mistakes turning fatal. Focusing only on enforcement while ignoring these systemic factors misses the point entirely. Anecdotal evidence and personal frustration don’t equal proper analysis. If we actually want to reduce deaths, we need data-driven solutions—not just more complaints about how ‘bad’ Thai drivers are."

Aasdly drinving mileage doesn't improve your ability to analyse what your see.

I totally agree that for years Thailand's gathering of stats has been unreliable and incomplete. THe main problem is how the general public iand th media interpret what is available - the WHO is actually quite good at drawing reasonable conclusions from poor stats from countries with similar problems all over the world. you'd expect stats to cover such things as Deaths per 1 million inhabitants Serious Injuries per 1 million inhabitants Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants we can be pretty sure that 50% of all registered vehicles on Thai roads are 32- wheelers this is a dangerous mix giver road design and the average size and character of private 4-wheelers. We can also arue quite strongly that you are statistically less likely to die in a 4-wheeler in Thailand than you are in the USA - yet people consistently cite drivers of 4-wheelers as examples of the dangers on Thai raods when it isn't actually the case They also fail to divide injuries into the 3 internationally recognised categories minor, serious and fatal. It is impossible to get a good idea of the number of collisions. but - as no-one on this site ever seems to even consider any of this it enables people to run wild with totally irrelevant and wildly prejudiced assumptions about road safety in Thailand.. To make changes in road safety in Thailand there need to be fundamental changes in many areas. but to even start, you need a good database of stats to analyse and thai doesn't have that - they don't even gave people trained to make proper crash reports., the base-line for road safety is knowing what you're up against.

I've driven in Laos Malaysia in my own vehicle and in Cambodia on a motorbike...I've also driven in North Africa, Australia, North Africa and in Europe, but I think that conversations about "bad driving" just show that people don't understand what road safety is about.

"Reducing Thailand’s road safety issues to just 'lack of enforcement' is an oversimplification that ignores the complexity of the problem. Road safety is influenced by infrastructure, vehicle standards, education, emergency response, and public awareness. A real solution requires a comprehensive approach—not just one fix."

basically this is the rubbish I was referring to - “Blaming ‘reckless Thai drivers’ is just a lazy stereotype. Road safety is a complex issue tied to infrastructure, enforcement, and education—not some national character flaw. If you actually care about solutions, look at the Safe System approach instead of making sweeping, unhelpful generalizations.”

The blame game you use is an archaic, racist way of looking at road safety and an obstacle to both understanding and progress….and you list is just a litany of prejudices that are not even confined to Thailand. Expats in particular are prone to racist stereotyping of Thai people when it comes to road safety and driving abilities. They frequently use “they” in racist diatribes as a simplistic linguistic tool to reinforce “othering”, generalization, and stereotyping. By employing they as a third-person plural pronoun, you create a psychological and rhetorical distance between yourself or your in-group and the group you are targeting. I.e – the native inhabitants of the country they have settled in. Basically you are using “they” to refer to a racial or ethnic group can strip individuals of their unique identities, reducing them to a monolithic, faceless collective. This makes it easier to promote stereotypes and justify discriminatory attitudes. Example: "They are all reckless drivers” This falsely implies a homogeneous group acting with a singular intent, ignoring individual agency and complexities of road safety. Using broad generalizations & stereotyping is used to make sweeping, unfounded claims about an entire racial or ethnic group, reinforcing stereotypes and biases. Example: "it’s THEIR culture” When it comes to road safety, people can’t resist falling into a baseless and pointless blame game…blaming and scapegoating hides their own ignorance and diverts from the real issues. Road safety is a public health issue, but those who don’t understand this love to use the pronoun they to attribute societal issues (crime, unemployment, cultural change) to a specific racial group, shifting blame and avoiding systemic analysis from themselves. Example: "They have no manners." Because expats find driving in Thailand difficult to acclimatise to there is a tendency amongst some to resort to fear-mongering and cynicism to hide their ignorance and distress…… they is used in an accusatory way to create a sense of us-vs-them, heightening fear and tension between groups. “We are superb drivers, they are all bad” This is a core narrative in many opinions expressed on road safety in these threads to stoke fear and resentment and promulgate the impression that the person expressing this is superior to Thai people. Some speakers may avoid explicitly racist language but still use they to imply racialized meanings that their audience understands. E.g - :"They don’t drive as well as we do." Road users in Thailand consist of diverse individuals with different behaviours, beliefs, and experiences.

over 20 years I've averaged between 30 and 40 km per annum - but more importantly I have a knowledge of road safety and am able to critically analyse what I see.

Actually I think they do - but road safety doesn't work like that - it requires the authorities to take the right kind of action - if you look at countries with good road Safety stats, you realise that the populations have no idea what has been done - they all labour under the misapprehension that they are superb drivers, when in fact it is the road safety system that has protected them against themselves.

"they" -??? that's exactly the racist rubbish that impedes any progress in understanding road safety in Thailand When you make a sweeping generalizations like “they are all reckless” or list complaints using "they", you need to define Who ”they” is - Are you saying every single Thai driver does this?” Do you think all Thai drivers fit this stereotype. - Road safety issues exist everywhere, and different factors contribute to them, like infrastructure, enforcement, and driving culture. But saying ‘all Thai drivers’ ignores responsible drivers and improvements being made. “Driving habits vary across countries due to road conditions, enforcement, and training. Instead of blaming all Thai drivers, maybe we should look at the driving education system or road safety laws.” When you see one bad driver in Thailand, do you assume all Thais drive that way? Would you say the same if you saw a reckless driver in your own country?” You seem unaware of the reality of statistics of driving a car in Thailand compared to other countries “If road safety is a concern, what do you think would help improve it? Playing the blame game clearly doesn’t. What do you suggest – I expect you have a single issue tht you b;eive will provide the answer? “Yes, road safety is a major public health issue in Thailand like in many other places. But generalizing all Thai drivers as reckless isn’t accurate or fair.

THey said 18 months when they started, whenever that was. being sone in rolling sections - withthe one way system.

300% import charge. In the town that inexplicably has race week every year.

"It wasn't about not understanding Thai culture. " - that's where you are wrong... Whilst Chiang Mai indeed has traffic issues, and pedestrian conditions can be challenging. However, the idea that driving is getting “much worse” or that “these people” are uniquely inconsiderate is an unfair and narrow perspective. With a better understanding of Thai road culture, safer walking habits, and a more patient approach, much of this frustration could be alleviated. Ultimately, if someone finds themselves overwhelmed with anger every time they step outside, the issue may not be the city—it may be your own mindset

Usual rubbish and tittle-tattle about "bd driving " in Thailand - just cynicism covering ignorance

I've studied road safety world over and over 20 years in Thailand. I'm amazed by the ignorance and rubbish written in the social madia about driving in Thailand Just because you can drive doesn't make you an "expert" on road safety.......... Thailand has one of the highest road fatality rates in the world, with around 25,000 deaths annually. The public and government responses to road safety issues are often misguided, focusing on blaming "bad drivers" rather than addressing systemic failures. Road Safety and Media Reporting The media often reports crashes as isolated incidents rather than as part of a larger public health crisis. Comprehensive road safety strategies, including better data collection and analysis, are lacking in Thailand. International organizations have provided recommendations, but these are often ignored. Common Misconceptions and Cognitive Biases Confirmation Bias: People tend to focus on evidence that supports their existing beliefs about Thai drivers being reckless. Cognitive Dissonance: Many fail to accept new information that contradicts their assumptions about road safety. Many foreigners perceive Thai drivers as incompetent, but the real issue is inadequate enforcement of laws and poor road infrastructure. Key Causes of Road Accidents Speeding: Higher speeds significantly increase crash severity. Drink-Driving: A major contributor, with Thailand’s rate among the highest in the world. Lack of Helmet Use: Over 75% of road deaths involve motorcyclists, often due to non-compliance with helmet laws. Distracted Driving: e.g - The rise of mobile phone use has worsened the problem. Unsafe Infrastructure: Poor road design and lack of pedestrian safety measures. Inadequate Law Enforcement: Existing traffic laws are weakly enforced, often due to corruption. Statistical Issues Thai crash statistics are inconsistent and unreliable. The Thai police primarily record deaths at the scene but fail to track later fatalities and injuries. WHO data suggests Thailand has a road fatality rate of 32.7 deaths per 100,000 people, one of the worst globally. Driving Culture in Thailand Traffic norms in Thailand differ from Western countries. Drivers often don’t use indicators and have an unusual codes and styles of driving, making defensive driving crucial for newcomers. Road social hierarchies exist, with wealthier individuals facing fewer consequences in traffic incidents. Don't overlook the historical influence of river traffic either! Legal and Enforcement Challenges Corruption among law enforcement makes proper road policing ineffective. Many traffic stops are aimed at collecting bribes rather than enforcing safety. Legal fines are often negotiable on the spot. Potential Solutions: The Safe System Approach Education: Public awareness campaigns on safe driving. Enforcement: Stricter implementation of traffic laws. Engineering: Improved road and vehicle safety standards. Emergency Response: Faster and more efficient post-crash care. Evaluation: Data-driven policy-making. Thailand needs a systemic shift in road safety management. Road safety is a public Health issue. Instead of blaming individual drivers, authorities must focus on structural changes, stricter law enforcement, and improved road design. Implementing proven international strategies like Sweden’s “Vision Zero” could significantly reduce fatalities. Until such reforms take place, Thailand’s roads will remain among the deadliest in the world.

he obviously doesn't realise how he's losing it as he gets older and doesn't understand Thai vculure (e.g. laughing and smiling at mistakes) and rather than admit he can't adjust, toes to blame oters.

Basically blaming Thai people for his old age.

It's some kind of aberration but I don't know why -

So what speeds are you getting on 5G data around Thailand?