Chomper Higgot

My side?

All things are negotiable.

Nick, correct me if I’m wrong. Two clear statements are frequently made. 1. Israel is fighting this war to wipe out Hamas. 2. The war will end when the hostages are released. Which is correct?

Oh and I support the world’s news media being permitted to send journalists into Gaza. Let’s have a view independent of Hamas and independent of Israel. I have yet to hear a single sensible argument against this.

I thought the pre-7/10 period was off limits. But if we are going there it wasn’t simply a ceasefire was it? There was a lot of other stuff going on.

No I’m not, I said no such thing. I argued Hamas are a blood thirsty terrorist group who will commit any heinous crime without compunction. Palestinians very clearly have much to fear from Hamas who have a history of murdering Palestinians who oppose them. I support Israel’s right to defend itself, I do not support Israel conducting open warfare killing tens of thousands of civilians. I support a negotiated settlement and a two state solution.

I think we both agree that Hamas are a viscous, bloody thirsty terrorist organization that will commit any heinous crimes without compunction. If we can agree on that, what do you think would be the response of a Palestinian faced wit disobeying Hamas or obeying Hamas?

Opinions differ. It’s not an excuse for collective punishment.

And then a temporary truce secured his release. So maybe continuing the carnage is not the only way to secure the release of the hostages.

I expect it might be the ‘living in fear bit’. Nah. Go with the collective punishment.

Maybe the Palestinians don’t know where the hostages are being held. Maybe the Palestinians are living I fear of Hamas, which I think we all agree is a viscous bloodthirsty terrorist organization. You claiming they must know doesn’t mean they do and clearly you have no defense of your claim the Palestinians are holding the hostages. But you are doing a very good job at putting forward the argument for collective punishment, which fits well with your ‘no reason to complain when the carnage starts’.

I read your link expecting it would provide some statement from Hamas to back your claim: It does nothing of the sort. It’s an opinion piece. Your claim is unsupported.

Yes, holding hostages is a war crime and Hamas are doing that. I think everyone here agrees that Hamas are a blood thirsty terrorist group. You seem to be saying the Palestinians are Hamas. Would you like to clarify?

Well that, you tell us, is the view of Hamas, a recognized terrorist organization. What about you Brian, how many civilian deaths do you think is acceptable?

I must go back and review the discussion on ‘watch the [edited] video’

I certainly don’t. Which is yet another reason to permit the world’s news organizations to send their journalists into Gaza. Let’s have a view independent of Hamas and Israel. Any arguments against that?

Have you got a link to how many civilian casualties is acceptable?

Because you think women and children facing starvation is a cheap point scoring prop. But hey, when the ‘carnage’ starts ‘they have no reason to protest’.

You’re hiding behind semantics. And adjusting your argument as it gets challenged.

The IRA absolutely did attack within the UK, both in NI and the mainland, they also took hostages, murdered captives. And settled the conflict by means of negotiation. There are a great many lessons to lean from that conflict, including it is possible to combat terrorist in an urban environment without mass civilian casualties and deeply divided sectarian conflict can end by means of negations.

You are. Perfect, Israel has not created a gold standard in civilian casualties. But with the on going carnage they are working on it.

Yep, The civilians in NI had citizenship and the political at sympathies of the U.S. The Palestinians have neither of these things.

To be fair to the Israelis. I have every expectation they would minimize civilian casualties if the murderous Hamas were holed up in a crowded Israeli neighborhood.

It’s got a lot to do with the claim the Israelis created a gold standard. Clearly they did not.