Leaver

The Venice of South East Asia. ????

Please post when you find even one to party with in Pattaya. ????

This is the Pattaya Forum. What you describe in Hat Yai is not happening here.

Yes, it eventually reverts back to the Thai landlord. What you describe has been happening here for decades. As I have said, Thai landlords push rents past what their property can sustain, causing the tenant to default, rinse and repeat, all the while, the cost of the higher rents being pushed onto customers, whilst places like Vietnam are charging the equivalent of 30 baht for a beer in a gentleman's club style bar. Higher rents can be justified with upgraded infrastructure, or if the property owner renovates, but most don't, and you can't even walk on a sidewalk here. For those that can't find a buyer, they stand to lose the lot. With a global economic recession looming, how many buyers are around for the hundreds of commercial premises for sale here at the moment, with more coming onto the market everyday, some of them being someone's favorite place.

I posted just a few weeks ago of the closure of the very large, and very expensive club, with a swimming pool, in the middle of Tree Town. A lot of money spent on that place. It's the biggest establishment in Tree Town, the supposed part of Pattaya nightlife that is "thriving." Here's the definition of "imminent." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imminent "ready to take place : happening soon" Note the word, "soon." Would you be happy if the thread title used the word "soon" instead of "imminent?" ???? The closures came in waves, but yes, as leases are expiring, there are for sales signs and closures. Leases come up for renewal all the time here. What becomes of those who can not buy in again, can not continue to pay rent, and can not find a buyer - it closes. How do you think the coming high season is shaping up? No Russians, very little Chinese, and westerners struggling to pay their bills, let alone have an overseas holiday. This is quite a contradiction, because unless there have been new land releases in Central Pattaya, every new opening equals a past closing, does it not? Is it possible that a premises that has been bought, changed, and opened as something else, or a different style of bar / restaurant, actually used to be someone's favorite before it was taken over by new owners? Sunday roast for me, followed by MotoGP then F1. During the break between the two different forms of motor sport I will be on an app booking in a girl for after the F1, then it's off to see some live music. I'll leave the lady drinks and bar fine for you to pay. ???? As another member said, feel free to leave the thread.

Go into the settings of the phone. Look for "About" and post back what it says. Also, connect the phone to your WiFi network and then install the "Fing App" and run a scan. The brand of the phone may be displayed, along with its internal IP address. This information may give a starting point for some more online searching.

So the demographic of Malaysia is not reflected, in any way whatsoever, of the demographic of Malaysian tourists to Thailand. is this correct?

You will never struggle to have a meal, get drunk, and get laid in Pattaya. The thread is not about the number of venues, but the venues that are closing, or closed. Does a venue have to be well established to be someone's favorite? I disagree there is a reasonable degree of customer loyalty here. As another member said, many expats move to where the cheapest prices are. I have given the example in the past of a Thai landlord raising the rent on a business selling 60 baht beers, so now the owner has to charge 65 or 70 baht a beer, and most of the customers move to another bar down the road selling 60 baht beers. With poor exchange rates and the rising cost of living, I can only see this increasing as the purchasing power of pensions decline. Some of my favorite places are not the cheapest. I am prepared to pay higher prices for a more comfortable environment. Eg. air conditioning. However, the "middle ground" just like the "middle class" in many countries is shrinking. As mentioned, pensions are not going as far as they used to, something that will continue into the near future. Do such establishments raise their prices and maintain their current products and services, or start cutting expenses, or go for the cheap beer high turn over business model? How do "middle ground" establishments remain operational as more and more expats seek out the cheapest eats and drink across Pattaya?

This is why I have often said, "it's a race to the bottom here." So, what becomes of the places that aren't selling 60 baht beers? Could it be, they eventually close? ????

Everyone has different favorites. Whilst I may not have lost a favorite recently, that's not to say others haven't. You make an interesting comment, "The places you mention were new and took an adventurous perhaps early gamble timing wise." We have seen a lot of new construction, moving of premises, rebranding, renovation etc by businesses here. One being the nightclub on Soi Baukhao which never opened, and may be on the market. Another that comes to mid is High Rollers. You say their gamble was in their covid timing, but who could see the war in Ukraine, rising interest rates, high inflation rates, and huge increases in the price of energy, notably fuel, thus the cost of air tickets? Is it possible many other establishments have over capitalized also? Question: Do YOU think current global economic conditions, which are getting tougher by the month, will cause more closures here in the future? The vast majority of business owners here rent their premises. A commercial premises is not like a home, that you can continue to live in, rent free, whilst it's on the market for sale. All those businesses for sale that have been linked in this thread are still paying rent. As I have said, without a buyer, do they continue to dip into their own savings to make up for losses, or do they walk away? Indeed, many will not have the capital from over 2 years of a 3 year lease to buy in again. Here's a new listing in Jomtien. I think many will know the establishment. https://www.bahtsold.com/view/popular-succesful-sports-bar-in-pattaya-jomtien-soi-7-for-sale-471645 It may or may not be the favorite place of some people, but for how long does it stay on the market before the owner can no longer continue to prop it up, or the next lease falls due? Do you think all these bars coming onto the market will remain open until a buyer is found? At some stage they will have to cut their losses, causing a closure. There are probably quite a few owners like the Indian guy on Soi 7 in a recent article. The only reason it made the news is because some violence was involved over eviction. Here's another new listing on Soi Baukhao. As we know, this area is now the center of the nightlife in Pattaya, yet, it's for sale. https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0544-bar-guesthouse-for-sale-471492 Notice in the narrative, "The bar is currently not trading." The owner may be paying rent, with no other expenses, in the hope of selling for 1.9 million baht. The place is already closed, but could other owners do the same, in the hope of finding a buyer? How long do they keep paying the rent before walking away? The next high season will be interesting. Things like energy bills rising 80% in the UK from October will not help tourism for Thailand.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of non-drinking Malaysian muslim tourists to Thailand, but as per the percentage that YOU posted, the percentage would likely be quite high out of the total amount.

So 6 out of 10 Malaysian tourists don't drink alcohol, and they are now the dominant demographic of tourists here. Interesting.

I don't think the thread has run its course. I started this thread way before covid because bars and restaurants were closing all the time, including some that were "wheat." If / when Pattaya returns to normal, they will still be closing. As I have said before, there's been around 2 years of very little trade, thus no profits. There were some covid discounts on rent, which have ended. A typical commercial lease is 3 years. Obviously, businesses put aside some profits to pay for the next lease. They have not been able to do that through most of the life of their current lease. Do business owners spend more of their savings to buy another lease, effectively buying the same lease twice, advertise the business for sale, or simply walk away? As we know, covid restrictions have ended for Thailand. There is no reason, covid related, for people not to holiday here, and many other tourist destinations in Thailand, and around the world. The problem for the global tourism industry now is the high cost of living due to inflation, most notable energy costs, rising interest rates, and the high price for air tickets due to high fuel costs. We are currently in the traditional low season. I think snowbirds will be returning, but I am not so sure the typical two week millionaire will be here in the coming high season. If not, you can expect more closures. Even now, there are many business owners who want out, and without a buyer, eventually they will be evicted. There's the recent article about the Indian guy on Soi 7 where the Thai landlord became violent. Here's a typical recent advertisement. https://www.bahtsold.com/view/-ref-0545-bar-with-rooms-for-sale-471494 Other members have posted of other businesses going on the market, some being well known, so I wouldn't call them "chaff." The big nightclub with the pool in the middle of Tree Town closed recently. Would you call that place "chaff" as well? Big money was spent on it. There's the nightclub on Soi Baukhao that never opened that may possibly be advertised for sale at the moment. Also big money spent on it. It's not just the "chaff" here that will have a difficult time in the future due to a looming global recession.

Some retirees who were sitting on the fence may make the move for a better lifestyle. It's the two week millionaires that may not have the money for their annual holiday here.

How do you know he is guilty?

As I have said before, don't stand in the way of a Thai and 1 baht. They will kill you for it.

World Class tourist destination. ????

Same scenario to you. If you have two drinks in a bar and the bill comes out for four drinks, is it YOUR fault for refusing to pay for the two drinks? Do you deserve a beating for refusing to pay for the two drinks? Are you committing a crime, or is a crime being committed against you?

I would like to see CCTV footage of what happened prior to what we see on the video in the link.

If you have two drinks in a bar and the bill comes out for four drinks, and you refuse to pay for two of the four drinks, are you stealing two drinks from the bar? Are you a thief? Do you deserve to be extorted? Do you deserve to be beaten up? It's all your fault for not paying for the four drinks. Right? ????

Sure, but maybe it was her trying to steal from him, and the rest of the show was the extortion part of the scam, using the threat of violence, and when he still refused to pay, then actual violence.

So, the foreigner's crime is not asking the price first, and then refusing to be scammed, and for that, HE IS called a thief, and deserves to be beaten up. As I have said, we have seen incidents like this in bars, many times. Do you think he walked past and grabbed some food and put it in his pocket while he thought she wasn't looking? ????

Maybe because Thailand is the land of smoke and mirrors. Maybe because I read between the lines. Maybe because I keep an open mind. Maybe because there's usually two sides to a story. Why do take everything hook, line, and sinker?

All I am saying is, keep an open mind. Maybe he has bought the same food off vendors before, and knows the price. He didn't ask the price first from this women, got the food, she may have then given him a crazy price - there's the scam. He refuses to pay the crazy price and it kicks off.

Where does it say she didn't?