Leaver

Go down Soi Post Office at night. You need to turn on high beam. The Beach Road half of the Soi is in complete darkness.

How does one copy "nothing?" ????

What you contribute is nothing, which is evidence you know nothing.

I'll take that as no response. ????

I never once suggested that immediately, post covid, western tourists would be bypassing Thailand for Vietnam. As I said, Vietnam is continuing to build tourism infrastructure, where Thailand continues to rely on being Thailand. Just like the Nokia phone company, interesting times ahead for Thailand's tourism industry.

The majority of your 544 posts are trolling me - brilliant. ????

Still waiting for any thoughts of your own on any thread / post. ????

Do you deny there was a period in time where this was the case? A lot of the girls returned home to their villages. Do you deny this? Despite their bar, and other bars opening back up, prior to Thailand opening back up, many didn't come back to Pattaya until some sex tourists started to return, and that has been in recent times. I predicted it, and it happened. Speak to bar owners. The girls were hesitant to return until there were customers in the bars, not because of catching covid. Did I say it was going to be the case for ever?

Once again, I never said Pattaya would fall into a big hole, never to be seen again, however, despite covid coming to an end, there are still difficult times ahead for bars, restaurants etc. Many may not make it to the end of their current lease.

I think it will be interesting where westerners chose to visit in the future. Thailand is relying on being "Thailand." Vietnam is investing heavily in tourism infrastructure, and I have given some examples of this. Once again, I am looking at 5 years from now, not immediate post covid. If Vietnam returns to 32.8% increases in tourism, year on year, as previously posted, it's not so many years into the future where they will equal, and possibly overtake Thailand, for numbers, which you rightly point out will be mainly from Asian countries, but it will be interesting to see where westerners chose, other than sex tourists, as Thailand has that market well and truly secured.

The mere use of the words "regulated" and "financial services" and "Pattaya" in the same sentence would have Adam turning in his grave. ????

What's even more comical is you trolling me, like a give a rats. ????

That sounds about right. My point being, Yamoto restaurant most likely didn't appear out of place on that soi, 30 years ago. Fast forward 30 years (pre covid) and Yamoto restaurant was / is surrounded by girly bars and massage shops in a tired looking soi, which is probably why it looks out of place for the OP.

You are correct, and no disagreement from me. The Chinese were / are the biggest tourism market for both countries. What will be very interesting is the trend of the traditional western markets in the future. Couples, families etc. Once again, Vietnam is investing and building things to cater for them, whilst Thailand is still relying on its tired and dirty mafia controlled beaches, and sex trade. As I have said in the past, what is the point of building a big new shiny 5 Star hotel, in the middle of outdated tourism infrastructure? As soon as a tourist, who has spent big money on a 5 Star hotel, steps outside, they can't even walk on a decent sidewalk, for example. I am not suggesting Vietnam will be taking a big market share of sex tourists. (mongers) No chance of that. Thailand has that market secured well and truly. It's that lucrative western market with real money to spend, such as families, that in my opinion, Thailand is not only going to struggle to retain, but also to attract, in the future. On the point of the Chinese, I have actually been to Ho Tram casino and seen the gambling floor near capacity with predominately Chinese gamblers. I'm not suggesting Chinese gamblers make up the majority of Chinese tourist numbers for Vietnam, but Chinese gamblers appear to be lucrative for Vietnam. This is a market that Thailand is no where near being able to compete with Vietnam to attract. It will be interesting to see some tourism data a few years from now, but if Thailand's and Vietnam's tourism industries were both listed on a stock exchange, and I had to chose one for a long term investment, I would be choosing Vietnam for the reasons I have mentioned in this, and other posts. Which one would you chose?

I've never suggested Pattaya would fall into a hole and disappear. Pattaya still has the biggest and best sex trade in the world, but sex tourists are only one part of a tourism market. I have suggested the traditional business model of how the sex trade here profits business owners, and thus Thai landlords, may be digitally disrupted in the future, the question is, by what percent. Meeting Thai hookers online was around pre covid, so it's not something that will fade away as covid comes to pass. For businesses with tight margins, who rely heavily on lady drinks and bar fines, a loss of even 10% in the turn over from lady drinks and bar fines may be enough to close their business. Of interest, is the next generation of monger coming through. Their whole life is spent online. They are already familiar with apps like Tinder. It's nothing new to them at all. Once again, tourists were meeting Thai hookers online, pre covid, it didn't start due to covid, and I can only see it resuming, and gaining in popularity, into the future. Will it effect businesses next month, no. Will it effect businesses next high season, probably not. Will it effect businesses a couple of years from now, in my opinion it will. I've suggested, and given some examples, of what Vietnam is doing to attract tourists, not just sex tourists. Eg. world record breaking cable car, casinos, more airports etc. What is Thailand building to not only retain its tourists, but to attract new tourists, other than zero baht Chinese tourists and sex tourists? Other factors have also been mentioned, not only by myself, like the loss of holiday savings of potential tourists due to covid, the high cost of living and inflation in many western countries, rising interest rates etc. These are out of the control of Thailand, but will certainly have an impact. I know you, and others, view such opinions / predictions / comments / statements / observations / questions etc as doom and gloom, but once again, things were not great in Pattaya before covid. I think back to the 2019 - 20 high season, just before covid, and it was the quietest high season I have ever seen. It's great to see Pattaya rebounding from covid, but what, exactly, is it rebounding to? A low 2019 - 20 high season perhaps? Is it possible covid was a distraction, to put it mildly, to what was already happening here? This coming high season will be interesting. I hope we can use the terms "thriving" and "rammed" as accurate descriptions in the future.

I read in the print media that we are not able to quote here that some flights are set to resume between China and Thailand in the near future.

I never said there were "none." I said I didn't know of any. So two successful cases over the many cases appearing in the media doesn't make for good odds, does it?

Yes, perhaps Yamoto restaurant has been there so long that it originally appeared to be "in place" but over time the soi changed so much that it may now appear to be "out of place" in that soi.

Happy to debate it, if they were to post any content other than personal attacks. ????

In my opinion, Vietnam will return to big increases, year on year, of their tourist numbers, post covid. Vietnam not only will be a genuine competitor to Thailand, but will take a big part of Thailand's market share, possibly overtaking Thailand for tourist in around 5 to 7 years from now. Thailand continues to build nothing and invest nothing for tourism, while expecting tourists to keep coming, as they have in the past. This may be the case for zero baht tourists, so the tourist numbers will look good, but all the while Vietnam will be reinvesting on the back of more and more tourism. This was happening pre covid. In many ways, Thailand is like the Nokia phone company. Nokia had a huge market share, but ultimately went broke.

Yet, it's somehow 20,000 Vietnam Dong (30 baht) for a beer in a girly bar in Vietnam. Go figure. ????????

Compare the investment in both tourist attractions and you can see which country will be attracting tourists with real money to spend in the future.

Quite short sighted of you to only focus on an immediate post covid recovery. Let's look at 5 years from now. Vietnam only opened their borders around 1990 and look how far their tourism has come since then. More to the point, is the billions of dollars, not baht or Vietnam dong, that they have spent on tourism infrastructure in just the last 10 years. You never answered my simple question, what has Thailand built for the benefit of tourists, and the tourism industry, in recent years? Simple question, really. A senior Thai in the tourism industry commented on the topic in mid 2019, well before covid, so the writing has been on the wall for some time, and it's not like Thai's to criticize other Thai's and cause some loss of face, such is the threat of Vietnam's tourism industry to Thailand. Do you think he is plain wrong? What makes you think Vietnam will not return to 32.8% increases in tourist numbers, year on year, post covid? Even using pre covid figures, Thailand had about 39.92 million tourists in 2019. Vietnam had about 18.01 million tourists in 2019. To use compounding would be a long equation, so to simplify, and also be conservative, 18.01 million x 32.8% = around 5,904,000 extra tourists, year upon year, for Vietnam. 39 million - 18 million = 21 million extra tourist Thailand had over Vietnam in 2019. 21 million / 5,904,000 = around 3.55 years for Vietnam to reach Thailand's tourist numbers, and these are conservative figures, with no compounding, and doesn't even address the point you made about affordability, which I agree, will play a big part in tourism in this region over the next few years, with Vietnam offering a considerably cheaper holiday, yet a lot more new tourism infrastructure, some of it world record breaking, and some of it services that Thailand doesn't even offer. Eg. casinos. Is my math wrong? How much will covid play a part in the recovery of the tourism industry for both countries is yet to be scene, but I do agree with you, if business owners here a relying on a big high season, I'm not so sure it will eventuate, as many returning tourists may simply not be able to afford to holiday here for sometime, for several reasons previously mentioned. Pattaya / Thailand has spent decades building a huge sex industry, which in my opinion is unrivaled across the world, and I freely admit that's why I am here, but we are talking about tourism in general, not just sex tourists, particularly western tourists, not zero baht Chinese tourists.

Yes. No. Thai landlords should drive past their properties once a month, and if they see 10 customers in the business one month, as opposed to only 5 customers the month before, they should double the rent. That's only fair, right? ???? Trouble is, Thai landlords think all farang are fools, even if you run a good operation.

Well, since you mentioned Vietnam. https://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/statistic/international?txtkey=&year=2020&period=t1 "International visitors to Viet Nam in 1/2020 estimated 1.994.125 arrivals, increase 16,6% over 12/2019 and up 32,8% over the same period last year. 2019. Total international arrivals in 1 months reached 1.994.125 arrivals, increasing 32,8% over the same period last year." If Vietnam returns to 32.8% increases in tourists, year on year, how long before Vietnam overtakes Thailand? Why such a big increase, well possibly because Vietnam is investing in tourism. Some examples: World record breaking cable car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHXgwCZGotg Six new airports over the next 10 years. https://en.vietnamplus.vn/six-more-airports-to-be-constructed-in-10-years/214064.vnp "Six new airports will be built in the next 10 years, raising the total number of airports in the country to 28, haft of which are international airports." Vietnam will have 14 international airports, and Thailand only 7. Luxury ship building. https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/two-luxury-superyacht-cruise-ships-building-for-vietnam "The Vietnamese cruise ships are due for delivery late in 2023 and will both operate in Ha Long Bay, a UNESCO World Heritage Site and popular travel destination in northern Vietnam." The Seahorse vehicle carrier couldn't even get started here. Casinos. Here's one. https://thegrandhotram.com Kinyara, what has Thailand built to benefit tourists, and the tourism industry in recent years? I'm not the only one to see it. Here's a thread from mid 2019, well before covid. From a senior Thai in tourism: "In fact the outlook is terrible - with Vietnam presenting a "scary" proposition as a competitor for the tourism dollar. He described Vietnam as "naa glua" - meaning scary. He said that Vietnam was increasingly a rival of Thailand for tourist cash. Vietnam has lots of unexplored and new tourism locations and many people are choosing to go there instead of Pattaya in particular and Thailand in general." You mentioned the high costs of living having an impact on the funds available to tourists. Look at the youtube video at 5:30 minutes. A local beer, on the beach, after transport on world record breaking tourism infrastructure, is 30,000 Vietnam Dong, which is 45 baht, with a free hammock, and no mafia in sight. Yet, Thailand continues to simple target more and more zero baht tourists to prop up the tourist numbers, showing new tourists the same tired old tourism infrastructure it's had for decades.