Leaver

Russia invading Ukraine effected the world, and that includes Thailand. You think China invading Taiwan will not effect the world, also?

Hardly "individual." Tourists have been scammed, overcharged, ripped off, dual pricing, bill padded, beaten up, no meters in taxis, extorted, had the price changed on them etc etc etc etc for decades. There was a reason the AMLO went after these Chinese companies. Geez, do you think the Thai government realized there was a problem? "Zero baht tourists" was all over the news back then. Do you think it just went away and disappeared? Or, are you suggesting it was all a myth, or fake news? I posted a link of just one auction of just some of the assets. Many boats and buses, and that was the tip of the iceberg, back then. How much worse did it get by 2019? I don't have a dollar figure for you, but if you can't see the extent to which the Chinese tour companies are operating in Thailand, then I can't help you. Once again, the fake temple they built shows the lengths they will go to in order to cut out the Thai's getting any money out of the the Chinese tourists they bring in. I accept the Thai agriculture sector sees some demand, and good luck to Thai farmers. Water, electric, and gasoline taxes also make money. Employment, some, but the lower paid workers could very well be mainly Burmese, Cambodian etc, so not much for Thailand there. Once again, I have no link for dollar values. In my opinion, Thailand would be embarrassed about what was happening here with Chinese tourism in 2019. Certainly, a cause for loss of face. As I have said, Thailand wanted the Chinese, and Thailand got the Chinese, but that doesn't mean they got all of the Chinese money, as they did with the western market in the past.

I believe you need a background in law enforcement to be able to join.

Of course they do, but the salaried girls are under instructions from their boss that they can't work off their phones when on shift. Of course, this is fair enough, but it may be the case that they see freelancers coming and going from their bar for short times, then when they are allowed to view their phone they see missed messages from potential customers, and how long before salaried girls discover they have lost more money from customers than they make in salary each month, particularly as their salary is docked for not meeting targets. Is it possible that the traditional lady drink and bar fine business model here will be not fit for purpose into the future? Could it become a failed business model? If so, how much of a role does unrealistic rents from Thai landlord play? Could a solution for bar owners in the future be a variant on what the nightclubs do and give girls freelancing off apps a commission for arranging to meet their online customers in their bar? Difficult to implement, because the bar's drink prices have to increase to cover such commissions. Is technology driving it? Is demand (customers) driving it? Is supply (girls) driving it? Are the higher prices of lady drinks and bar fines driving it? It's probably a combination of all of these, but it was happening pre covid, quickly gained in popularity during covid, and is here to stay, and will surely have an impact on the bottom line for bars.

Who knows when the Chinese will be ALLOWED to return. It's looking like covid is not playing a part in that decision in China any more. An old article, but it gives an insight into the extent of Chinese operations in Thailand. https://www.thephuketnews.com/bargains-offered-at-amlo-chinese-tour-company-seized-assets-sell-off-58961.php 33 boats and 57 buses on Phuket, alone. Of course, authorities eventually gave up on enforcement, and the Chinese tour groups operated with impunity. I never suggested it was illegal. I said it's basically "zero baht" to Thailand, hence the term, "zero baht tourists." Like I said, "numbers go up, but money go down." As I alluded to in another post, how does the Thai government tax a transaction made in Thailand, but the money is exchanged back in China? Eg. WeChat Pay. Say a Chinese tourists wants to buy a latex pillow in a latex shop owned by a Chinese company, and that company prefers a certain method of payment that's beneficial for the Chinese tourists, and for the Chinese company. Good luck to the Thai government taxing that transaction. On my last trip to Cambodia, which due to covid was some time ago, I saw WeChat Pay even being offered in casinos there. However, I haven't been to a Chinese owned latex shop in Thailand, but I would be surprised if such a payment method was not also offered here.

I wonder how the Thai government taxes WeChat Pay. ????

It's Pattaya's beautiful beach that attracts the rich. ????

Most of the freelancers I know in bars, are also working online. If someone buys them some drinksand pays their bar fine, they go with them. If they are sitting in the bar with no customers, and an offer comes in online, they go to the online customer. How long before the customers realize they can get the same girls in the bars, online, minus lady drinks and bar fines?

Will be interesting to see if Thai landlords adjust their rents so their tenants can have a viable business, post covid.

Yes, and in my opinion, this may be the only way forward for many bar owners here in the future, in order to be able to pay the rent. They save on salaries, but the girls don't answer to the owner. They can up and leave the bar at any time to go with a customer off an app, potentially leaving a bar with no girls, which means no customers.

Yes, so down, yet total revenue is up, but a lot of that revenue is up on the back of the Chinese, who were by far the biggest demographic of tourists, and the vast majority were zero baht tourists, holidaying here in tour groups, arranged by Chinese tour companies, with the money being repatriated back to China. You chart shows numbers up and money up. I'm suggesting a lot of that revenue, due the Chinese, goes back to China. Once again, with the Russians not back any time soon, and who knows when the Chinese will be allowed out of China, there's interesting times ahead. It appears loss of tourism numbers, and revenue, may continue well after covid has finished. In effect, Thailand is entering a new era for it's tourism industry, yet I doubt they will adjust. It will be interesting to see if they can lure back their traditional western markets, but they may be done with Thailand. That leaves the Indians, and getting back on topic, look how Thai security treated the Indian guy in this case.

A police force that has police in it like this is capable of anything. https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/thitisan-jo-ferrari-and-his-officers-now-facing-death-penalty

I don't think I misread the data. Take Germany for example, down 22. If a German guy comes to Thailand and spends, say $5000USD on a 2 week holiday, but is no longer coming to Thailand as he is part of the "22" what TAT would have you believe is that they have replaced the lost German tourist, and the lost $5000USD, with ten Chinese who spend $500USD each on their holiday to Thailand, thus, the numbers are up, and the spend is the same, or up. Whilst there might be some truth to this, it doesn't factor in zero baht tourism. The German guy traveled independently, the Chinese travel on mass. Their tours are bought and paid for in China, so straight away there are profits not even making it to Thailand. The Chinese tour companies own buses, boats, hotels, restaurants etc through Thai companies, using Thai nominees. Thus, in country profits are also stripped out of Thailand and repatriated back to China. Staff in many of the Chinese company establishments very well may be from Burma, Cambodia, Laos, or Vietnam, so further money leaving the local economy as they send money home to take care of their family. A side issue with mass tourism is the pressure it puts on infrastructure, and the environment. Eg. more traffic on roads, more sewage in the ocean, more water and electric used etc. All of this, for less money for Thailand. As I said in another post, the Chinese even set up a fake temple here to cart the Chinese tour groups to, so profits from purchases of amulets, donations etc, straight back to China. Of more relevance to western tourists and expats, with declining western tourist numbers, and I mean pre covid, Central Pattaya hospitality venues will struggle. You don't see Chinese, Indians and Russians supporting such businesses, so it's an issue at the macro level, and the micro level in certain areas.

I've never owned a bar here, nor do I want to. I am a firm believer in renting, not buying here. Never sent money for sick buffalo, nor joined The Issan House Builders Club. I'm a consumer, and I use the apps. Hasn't the traditional bar business model lost my custom? Have you even looked at the apps and seen the hundreds of girls working off them? They have to be getting customers, otherwise they wouldn't bother, and if they are getting customers, how can you say the apps have taken nothing away?

Doesn't your link tend to prove my point? Revenue down from a lot of western countries, but total revenue up on the back of the Chinese, but a lot of those profits are repatriated back to China, so what good is it to Thailand, except for some minimum wage Thai's, and the agriculture sector? Of course there will be a recovery, but the Russians will not be back anytime soon, and it's up to the guys in Beijing when the Chinese can return, and who knows when that will be. Of more relevance to western expats and western tourists, if western revenue is down, will many businesses in Central Pattaya who cater to western tourists, be able to continue to operate? To be fair, some western markets were up, but as examples, Germany down 22, and Italy down 20, isn't great. What did Thailand do, or didn't do, to cause this?

His girlfriend rang me today and told me I had to give her back the Ducati. I'll miss that bike. ????

I've always said, pre covid, the tourists numbers were up, but money was down. Not to mention the money being repatriated back to China by Thai nominee Chinese companies. Due to covid, it seems so long ago, but Pattaya wasn't doing so well pre covid. Do you disagree?

Is "the score" good for tourism? Should a tourist be treated poorly because they don't know "the score?" Do neighboring countries that Thailand is competing with for the tourism dollar have "a score?" Would countries that don't have "a score" offer a more pleasant experience for tourists? Are some tables and chairs for street food in Bangkok comparable to the hundreds of deck chairs on Pattaya Beach in low season?

They are not zero baht tourists, that's why.

It doesn't concern me, either. It's not about online whoring, it's about how online has, and will continue to impact the traditional bar business model here. Of course, a discussion on this is obviously above you. Well, there's no beaches in Issan, so that understandable.

According you, zero percent. It's all myth. ????

How were the stats for western tourists?

I don't proclaim to know everything, just more than you, but that's not hard. Do you have an on topic comments to make?

There are quite a few. Thai Friendly is popular.

After India and China, TAT can target African nations. ????