Leaver

Yes, and I put forward the possibility that it was a Thai hate farang crime. Not a Thai hate Russian crime because of the war. That said, a hate crime is still a hate crime.

Are you are condoning their beating? If you can't see excessive force, due to hate, what do you see???? It sure isn't self defense. It sure isn't an arrest using reasonable force. What do you see in this case? What do you think the world saw? Free passes, no free passes, Thailand passes, whatever. This is a beating, motivated by hate, simple as that.

We were seeing it pre covid. The main tourist demographic here were Chinese, and they don't do deck chairs, and many other tradition scams by Thai's. Infact, they really only do Thai nominee Chinese companies. ???? What UPS's does Thailand have? They are still stuck in their old ways. The can continue with their dual pricing, scams, rip offs, over charging, bill padding, collusion and mafia tactics all they like, but the victims were dwindling in numbers pre covid, and will decline even future going forward. What has been built in recent times for the benefit of tourists, or the tourism industry here? They can't even build a decent side walk here. Meanwhile, just down the road, world record breaking tourism infrastructure is being built in Vietnam.

Ahhh, so it's their fault for being knocked out by Thai's more than half their age because they had consumed some alcohol. Such a predictable comment. I suppose the Thai guys we just defending themselves against a 65 year old lady. Like I said, that assault was all about hate, and not about professionalism and / or self defense. If you can't see that, then I don't know what it would take to constitute a hate crime in your books. Those guys ended up getting gaol time, which is surprising, given the Brit's had been drinking. ????

Like I said, maybe it was a hate crime, but not because she was Russian, and because of the war in Ukraine. Maybe this Thai guy just hates farang. Just something to consider. It depends what his actions were, and his words, during the assault. We may never know the truth, because it would tarnish Thailand's good image. ???? Once again, you missed my point, or have mixed up my post with another post. Perhaps read my post again.

Care to make a comment about the thread, or just comment on members who post?

Are you joking? Countless articles of Thai security just itching to beat up farang. And what about all those 5 Thai's on 1 farang assaults? I remember this case. A British family knocked out, even the old girl, 65, punched and kicked in the head. That's hate, not self defense., nor security. There are many other cases similar to this one. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-36158709

Better than nothing but personal attacks, which is meaningless.

I actually never thought it was a hate crime. I posted about what I thought another member may have been alluding to. However, upon reflection, whilst we are all thinking about the possibility of it being a hate crime against Russians, it's possible it's just another Thai guy piece of scum hating farang, all farang, and he wouldn't have a clue about the war in Ukraine. We would need to know the details of the crime, like did he try to rip her pants off etc, or just wanted to bash her and leave.

At least they post some content, unlike yourself.

Possible hate crime.

Hilarious. Strength in numbers, aussieexpat? Reminds my of the school yard, so many years ago. How are bar fines illegal? There's no guarantee paying a bar fine results in sex / prostitution? I ask you some simple questions and you want me banned. Seriously? How is a "How are the bars.............etc" thread a "happy thread?" It wasn't created because of anything I posted. Isn't the OP a question of the reality of what's really happening on the ground here? You make it sound like you are only here for Pattaya's nice beach, and singing in the choir. ???? How is your bar going? Are you making more on youtube than the bar? ????

I think you will see market forces, and competition from neighboring countries, play a part in the demise of these rip offs in the future.

Doesn't the Thai military sell all their surplus to the Thai mafia? ????

So if it's not going down, it's going to go up. I can't see it being a stable percentage, not with younger mongers coming through. If it's going to go up, what impact will this have on the traditional lady drink / bar fine business model? I have never said it will disappear. The question is, will online have such an impact in the future that bar owners can't afford their rent, because meeting their liabilities relied on X amount of lady drinks and X amount of bar fines a month? I agree there will still be guys buying lady drinks and paying bar fines well into the forseable future, but as "some" "many" "a lot" move online, and continue to do so, how does a bar owner continue to meet his business expenses, particularly when the Pattaya business model has lost X percent of customers willing to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines? As for being out with your mates, I remember, pre covid, being in Retox watching a match. I was by myself, but there was a table of 3 younger guys nearby. I could tell they were very excited, possibly not long flown in. They had a meal and some drinks. As most young ones do these days, they were on their phones a lot. Then, the volume of their conversation got louder with comments like; "Look at this one, look at this one." Replies like, "She's fit" and "Oh, yeah man." A lot of laughter and egging on each other going on at the table. Before my match finished, two girls arrived, separately, to their table. There were the usual greetings and introductions, including learning how to pronounce the girl's name properly, so I gathered they were not that experienced in Thailand, followed by getting the girl a drink. Not sure what the third guy lined up, as I left before a third girl arrived to the table. By the look of them, I doubt they were staying in Retox, but rather moving on for partying the night away. Of the two girls that arrived, they were attractive. I remember thinking to myself, that is the future of the way sex tourists will meet hookers here, and in some part, it has influenced my posts on the topic, on this forum, and I stand by my opinion on it, having met girls online myself. How are bar owners going to compete with this in the future? These guys had their mates, a/c, food, no pushy bar girls, no drunken bar owner, no bar hopping looking for a girl for the night, no lady drinks and bar fines to pay etc. The current predominate business model isn't going away anytime soon, but the writing is on the wall.

Yes, so what are we going to be comparing? End of lock down, to last end of lock down. End of covid to pre covid? Low season 2022 to low season 2019? It's a clean slate. It's all a big unknown. Problem is, covid rent discounts will soon end, and your average 3 year lease will soon be expiring. I, and perhaps some others, were under the belief Thailand would declare covid done with, and fling open the doors and allow the bars to open up fully, causing a big wave of mongers to rush back in, and for the bars that have toiled through covid, their reward would be good profits. Test & Go and the Thailand Pass as seen a trickle come back, and now in low season, even less than a regular low season. The big wave never came. Next high season will be very interesting.

The roads are quite dangerous here,particularly from drunk drivers / riders. Hard to deny that.

No, I haven't. You have assumed it. Ok, would you care to put a percentage on "some? Can you see that percentage growing in the future, particularly with rising lady drink and bar fine prices? Note: I never said "all." I said many. So, does a lot of "some" equal "many?" How much is "a lot" as a percentage? I always arrange to meet the online girls in a bar. I get the "bar girl experience" minus the lady drinks and bar fines. I don't know why members keep posting that you can't have a drink in a bar with an online freelancer. Is is possible that the majority of sex tourists to Pattaya in the future will have experience in the "gig economy" and using such platforms, and have no problem trying out a new way of meeting hookers here? You admitted "some" were already using various platforms for this purpose. Do you think it could gain in popularity in the future? If not, why not?

I actually find your post quite funny because what you post in disagreement, actually proves the point I am making. You've watched thousands of movies, and decades ago cinemas were popular, then along came VHS and hire shops, and that killed cinemas. Then along came DVD's, and whist that killed VHS, shops were still hiring DVD movies. Then along came the internet with Netflix, and big screen TV's, and they killed the hire shops. Yet, you seems to think the old business model of lady drinks and bar fines, which is the cinema so to speak, will not be effected by the internet and apps that the girls have been working on for some time. Too funny. I also note you did not reply to the question when is the last time YOU paid a bar fine, and what would be the maximum lady drink / bar fine you would be prepared to pay. As for F1, no, I doubt you could be a Ferrari Team Principle, but I bet you can drive a regular car, and I bet, with some time in the cockpit, you could learn to drive an F1 car and use the paddle shift. Does that mean you'll match Hamilton's times, no, but you would be able to drive an F1 car. So, here's a new bar owner in Pattaya, and Pattaya has a hot tropical climate, and he knows his customers like cold beer, particularly his Aussie customers. By your thinking, he needs to call a refrigeration mechanic to turn the temperature down on his new beer fridge to around 3 degrees, because he was and accountant in a former life and would have no idea about how to keep beer cold for customers. It's all rocket science to him. The same when a light bulb fails, he need to call an electrician because what would he know about changing a light bulb? ???? Why do you think Sois 7 and 8 died? Why do you refuse to even contempt other sois could die also, particularly with the rise of Soi Baukhao and Tree Town. Why do you think gogo's and Soi 6 are struggling? Could it be pricing? There must be a reason. What does the future hold for them? You never comment on what's not going so well here. Why is that? Once again, you think you are disagreeing with me, but your comment actually agrees with the point I am making. Sounds like you haven't paid a bar fine for a long while, either have I. Question is, who's paying them, and who will continue to pay them into the future, particularly as they keep rising in price?

For the record, I have never said Pattaya will fall in a hole, or the sky will fall down on Pattaya. People will still be coming to Pattaya for their "Nat King Cole" but many just may be arranging such services using a different method than buying lady drinks and paying bar fines. Do you get that? Have you NEVER hired an Uber style taxi, or booked an AirBnB?

It's well known that leases here are heavily in the favor of the landlord, to the point that should a business fail, the landlord cleans up, and then gets to to lease out the property again to the next dreamer, and the cycle continues. I don't have a link, but ask any business owner here if they think their Thai landlord is reasonable, the majority will say, no. This probably goes to the heart of the issue. Let's be honest, it was the sex trade that first put Pattaya on the map decades ago, and it has evolved into city since then. Whilst Pattaya now has more to offer than just the sex trade, businesses in Central Pattaya are firmly focused on adult nightlife and the sex trade. Now, it's the Thai girls, and the available sex, that attracts tourists to Pattaya, so the Thai landlord thinks his property is busy with tourists, therefore land values have gone up, so he wants more rent for his property. I agree with you on this point, however, the businesses / properties are / were busy (pre covid) due to the sex trade. Imagine a proper crackdown on prostitution here, or, hypothetically, no girls could / would go with customers for sex, not only would businesses close like we saw in covid, but the land values would plummet. Pattaya Beach is terrible, so sex tourists would not be replaced by families or couples here. My point being, that high value of the commercial land here relies very much on the sex trade. Do you agree with this? Now compare the sex trade here to, say, the taxi industry, pre Uber. Taxis and the plates used to be expensive to buy, now they are near worthless. Taxis all around the world had no competition, and taxi prices were high, due to government fees, taxes, licensing etc. Along comes Uber, and they took a huge slice of the market share, and could have cheap prices because of no government fees, taxes, licensing etc. As I have said, as meeting Thai girls online here for partying and sex grows in popularity, due to the high costs of rents for owners, passed on as lady drinks and bar fines, will Thai landlords lower rents, because profits from lady drinks and bar fines are declining? They probably won't, and what of the Thai landlords that borrowed to buy a commercial property here, say a bar, they will not like negative equity. I have asked members who defend the lady drink / bar fine business model where the line in the sand for them is with lady drink prices and bar fines. Yet to receive a reply. These prices will keep going up, pushing more online, which drives price further up, pushing more online. It's a vicious cycle. Eventually, we get to 120 beers, 250 lady drinks, and 1500 baht bar fines, in a little beer bar, because the Thai landlord still wants his rent, and you don't think sex tourists will start looking at Cambodia, Philippines, Vietnam etc? My post was Pattaya specific. Again, the property prices went up due to the sex trade, now with the internet and apps, the sex trade here has been, and will continue to be, digitally disrupted, just like the taxis were. Where's the land value then? As in the example I gave, taxis used to be expensive to buy, the vehicle, the plates, the license etc, now they are worthless, all around the world. The land values here were / are based on a flourishing sex trade operating out of bricks and mortar commercial properties. That has, and will continue to change, as more and more girls, and sex tourists, move online. Have you considered, "that's just the way it is" for digitally disrupted industries? Should, for many, their "side" becomes their main, what then for bar owners? Once again, how does the bar owner tell his Thai landlord that he can't get decent looking girls, and no one is buying lady drinks and paying bar fines anymore? Will the Thai landlord tell his bar owner tenant, "But they have to pay, because the land has a high value." ???? So we will have a lot of vacant and derelict commercial properties here in the future, unless Thai landlords share some of the digitally disrupted pain, and there is a market correction. Ok, so, care to put a percent on the impact, and predict a percent, say, 3 years from now? It's only going to get bigger. Can that "experience" compete with online in the future? Just look at the global success of Tinder. As the older guys used to the lady drink / bar fine business model leave the market, the new ones coming through are very much tech savvy, possibly preferring that "experience" in the same way they prefer AirBnb, Uber, Tinder etc. They can get on an app and arrange to meet girls the week before they even arrive. Where's the lady drinks and bar fines coming from that crowd, and have they done anything wrong? Should they be called Cheap Charlie? I agree. It really surprises my that The Nightwish Group haven't put all their girls on an app for "out call massage." The girls collecting a fee for The NWG. I would say why they haven't done this is because they have so much invested in bricks and mortar that they need to perpetuate the old business model. Just like the agencies do with the gogo girls and bar girls, a smart crew could develop a "dating site" specific to the main tourist areas of Thailand for out call short / long time "massage" and really have a huge impact on the old business model here, not to mention becoming the "Uber" of "massage" in Thailand. Cha-Ching. Your shirt example is interesting. Say the rent on the bricks and mortar department store that sells shirts was so high, that the disparity in cost of the shirts from the department store was so great that most bought the same shirt online? The department store being the bar / rent / Thai landlord and the online being the apps many girls are currently working off. What eventually happens to the department store / bar in Pattaya when the different in cost becomes so great? Long after covid has come to pass, there is interesting times ahead here for businesses sticking with the old Pattaya business model. We all know it's the world's oldest profession, but that doesn't mean the internet can't / won't change the delivery of such services here in Pattaya.

I've never said how they should run their business. Many of these business owners are in a system that is basically designed to see their leases fail, so the Thai landlord cashes in. Do you disagree with this? Rents go up, which is passed onto the consumer, in the price of goods and services. Eg. F & B. Do you disagree with this? If / when the rents go up to a point where sex tourists either can not afford to pay, or refuse to pay, and head to Cambodia or Vietnam or The Philippines instead, what's your advice to bar owners here? What could he have done about it? Or, do you think that will never happen, despite it already happening pre covid. Basically, it's the Thai landlords that are outpricing Pattaya in the region. Then, there are other factors like poor exchange rates, expensive air travel etc. None of the above is the fault of a bar owner. They are in a vicious cycle of their expenses go up, so they pass it onto the consumer, which knocks more customers out of the game. The girls still want 1000 baht, but prices around the meeting have increased. Many will simply look to another way of meeting. Do you disagree? Can you blame them? How does a bar owner tell their Thai landlord that the internet has caused less customers to buy lady drinks and pay bar fines, which are traditional earners for bars here, so he should lower the rent? The Thai landlord also banked on his tenant making money in the sex trade, so he could pay his rent. In my opinion, the whole lady drink / bar fine business model will be digitally disrupted. All that remains to be seen is by how much. As I said, as prices keep rising, more and more guys will go the freelancer route, which causes more price rises, and on it goes. Do you disagree with this?

At least I comment, rather than just make personal attacks which offer no content. No foreigner here is a proper landlord. if you can't see the correlation between ridiculously high and ever rising rents having an effect on small businesses, and tourism here, then there is no hope for you. There's a reason The LK Metro / Soi Baukhao area has grown in popularity, but I guess such a discussion would be beyond you.

Banks server shareholders.

No point a girl working in gogo on Walking Street if she never gets bar fined, while her friend working in a gogo in LK Metro is getting bar fined regularly, because the bar fines are cheaper. How long before the girls working in Walking Street move to work up the road? Maybe the Walking Street gogo marketing is, tell the guy ST is only 500 baht, but it's a 5500 baht bar fine. ????