Leaver

Sure, but it's a popular past time when one is retired, and in the twilight of one's years. As the hospital beds start to fill up, and they will, I can only see the solution here to be locking down.

Sure, we'll just have to wait on the verdict from the Thai court. So much for "oversight" hey? ????

If 6 of the staff are positive, how many of their customers next week will be positive. and given the staff are young, and the bar's customers not so young, who do you think will have the best chance of survival?

It's quite obvious why the pool was closed down. They didn't have a restaurant license for it. ????

Just to clarify, in YOUR opinion, were the malls built for tourists, or locals? So, you have no idea, but know know it can support two. Why not three? ???? Pattaya offers sex, not synergy. The more I read your posts, the more I think you are a real estate agent here. Would that be the same beach that washes away after every rain? Great. Pattaya definitely has a shortage of tourist accommodation. ???? Errr, with such a nice beach and tropical vibe in Pattaya, tell me, where are the high end tourists coming from? Yes, let's not forget retail, but I am sure Pattaya can sustain 3, 4, or 5 brand name shops, in malls, all within 1 mile of each other. ???? I guess that's a relief for retail, but hotels must be concerned. Right? Perhaps YOU should study a little about market forces, town planning, over development, and sustainability, otherwise, you run the risk of being a reincarnation of egg on face. Seriously, how much skin do you have in the game here???? Happy New Mall to you. ????

Why? We are talking about malls in Central Pattaya, are we not? I agree, but a big city of what? One of the most popular restaurants in Pattaya for foreigners is Hungry Hippo, for cheap eats. The biggest tourist demographic, pre covid, was cheap Chinese package holiday tourists. Thailand has always had the elite, and the poor, with very few in between. Thailand has never tried to grow a middle class, because they might try to change the status quo. Indeed, Thailand is famous for military coups to make sure this continues. Just who are the malls targeting for customers out of who lives here, and out of who holidays here? Just like TAT, you are only looking at the quantity, not the quality. Who out of all that quantity will be shopping in brand name shops in malls? Pattaya is "the world's brothel" and has a lousy beach. Where are the tourists going to come from who are not sex tourists, or cheap package holiday tourists? They were the predominate nationality. If you have a link that shows otherwise, please post. Once again, I question the relevancy of comparing Pattaya with a city in America, but will simply state, who can have confidence in investing in a mall here, when next year another two malls can be built? There's just no town planning here to instill the confidence of those wishing to invest in such ventures. I'll ask you the same question I asked Kinyara. In YOUR opinion, just how many malls do you think Pattaya can support? One more, two more, maybe three more? There must be a limit. In my opinion, we are currently at the limit. You disagree. So how many more can be supported?

Good reply, and I do not disagree with all you have said, but I will simply ask you a question, in YOUR opinion, just how many malls can Pattaya support, regardless of the debate if the current malls are successful and profitable? For me, I saw T21 as really eating into Central, for which those that have invested in Central, will no doubt see losses. Once again, it's not about holding back progress, but about town planning and having some surety in investing in property here. Can Pattaya support one more mall, two more malls, perhaps a third mall? Will malls that go broke in the future be repurposed into casinos, or like Mike's, into a hotel? It will be interesting to see what happens in the future, but for me, the tourist demographic TAT has been targeting in recent years, is not conducive with the prosperity of malls targeting the middle class, or high end tourists, with the ideology of "build it and they will come."

I think there is a misunderstanding. I am not suggesting that from the moment he stole the first baht he ceased to be an employee of the bank. He was clearly still employed, and receiving a monthly salary, and the fact that he maintained his employment whilst continuing to perpetrate his scam, tells me he either was satisfactory in his mainstream job, OR, he was dropping a few quid on his manager to overlook his indiscretions, which is one for the investigators to look into, because that would make her, and the bank implicit in the crime. Corrupt payments may also extend to the area manager, perhaps even further up the chain, as I can't believe the bank's computer system does not flag a pattern of foreigners making large withdrawals, only from one branch. Being so corrupt here, I would not be surprised if the bank pays off the police to simply put it all on this guy, and that's where it will end for the victims. As you say, it's so corrupt here, and foreigners are held in such low regard, why wouldn't supervisors take a corrupt payment to turn a blind eye, after all, it's only farang money. Obviously, I am talking about a serious criminal offence, not work place unprofessionalism, or incompetence, being an offence against their workplace contract. Big difference. Obviously, his manager, and possibly her manager, will claim lack of knowledge of the CRIMINAL OFFENCE, but upper management may allow them to continue to work, and after the court case, fire them, because the fact that a lot of foreigners were withdrawing money should have meant they intervened to stop the exodus of funds. Notice I said, after the court case, because to fire them now, means the upper management MAY know that his manager, and possibly her manager, may have received corrupt payments to look the other way. It's all about the bank trying not to refund. Did Lehman Brothers meet all their obligations? There's "systems" and then there's "systems." Whether it was poor supervision, or corruption, people lost a lot of money, and there's a lesson in that for all foreigners. As you say, one must question if their money is safe here, and not just from a scam like this, but in general. Like I said, if the bank wants to fight it, by the time this case has reached a verdict, it's possible many of the victims are deceased, or too old to enjoy the refunded money, should they win, and like most court cases in Thailand, the Thai lawyers bleed their customers dry, and many may not want to throw good money after bad.

Inevitable. If they let it rage though the city, uncontrolled, they haven't got the hospital beds and ICU beds for even the small percentage that still get very sick from the disease, despite being vaccinated. With Christmas and NYE festivities, the numbers will be huge 2 to 3 weeks from now.

As just mentioned in another post, as Pattaya / Thailand opens up, covid discounts will end, and Beach Road rents are high. Tourism will not be back to the numbers that can support such large business expenses for quite some time. This will be most evident on Walking Street. It will be interesting to see if Thai landlords will understand this, and negotiate with their tenants, or simply have the attitude, the boarders are now open, rent returns to the pre covid amount. I wish them well, but the next 12 months is going to be a bumpy ride.

The thread is even more relevant now, than it was back when I started it. When bars / boarders open, and covid rent discounts end, this will be the most expensive time for the businesses left standing. They will be running at full expenses, but without full tourism and customers. Also, many will be 2 years into their lease and key money, with some having these fall due in the near future. They have had no profits in 2 years to save for these large business expenses. Some may not have the money to continue. One only has to look at the rising popularity of the multitude of youtube channels that are showing their viewers what bars, clubs, hotels, restaurants etc are still open, which ones are mothballed, and which ones are closed for good. These channels have become an industry, and continue to make money for the content providers until today. Many tourists have their favourite places in Pattaya, and there was, and will be, a content demand by viewers to see what will be left here, when they eventually are able to come back, and it's constantly changing. Take a look at some websites and see the thousands of businesses and properties for sale or rent, all over Thailand. Many of them ill not be sold, or tenanted, anytime soon, thus, further closures. Free free not to read the thread.

Posting in the morning, just for you. ???? You make a fair point. I don't work in either mall, therefore, I am not spending 8, 10, or 12 hours working in a shop, to gauge how busy, or quiet, my shop is, and the amount of pedestrian traffic walking past, and if other shops are busy or quiet also. My comments only come from my observations for the amount of minutes I am in the malls, at random times. These observation are only a snapshot in time, but none the less, they still must be given some weight, because just how many random samples (visits) of observations is needed before one can come to the conclusion the majority of shops in the malls have little to no customers, the majority of the time? Eg. one visit equals no weight at all, but 50 visits, surely all these snapshots, when viewed together, paint a picture. Does Pattaya have a big middle class? The majority of tourists coming to Pattaya, which are package holiday Chinese, Indians, and Russians, are they middle class? Ask yourself this, we have all seen "the Chinese flag followers" around Pattaya, have you ever seen them in the malls? Have you seen the coach buses pull up out the front and the Chinese going into the mall, or better still, getting back on the coach with their hands full of shopping bags? I haven't, and that's not to say it doesn't happen, but maybe someone who has can post of their observations. The majority of tourists to Pattaya, pre covid, were Chinese, and by a vast majority. Can members post of their observations of seeing Chinese tourists in the malls, buying up big? Anything from cheap souvenirs to the latest fashion, even some beach wear. Has any member observed the biggest tourist demographic hitting the malls for holiday shopping? I haven't seen it. Have you seen it, Kinyara?

You do realize Apple is the most valuable company in the world. You have picked one of the most successful companies in history to make your point. How many customers did you see in other shops, on each visit? Who's stressed? I haven't invested in any of them, the same way I have put nothing into Thailand I can't leave behind and head straight to the airport, should I want to, or need to. This is by design. Your words, "while it is" sums it up. While the stores are still open, enjoy, because they may not be there in the future.

I did address this in my previous post. No doubt the bank's fraud mitigation and supervisory systems failed in this case, but that does not make them culpable at law. The bank's argument will be, from the very moment he stole the first baht, he acted alone, for his own personal gain, and well outside the scope of his employment contract. Effectively, working alone, and not as an employee of the bank, despite his crimes taking place whilst at his place of employment. Think of it this way. Say he was dealing drugs out of the bank branch. The bank would not be responsible for drug dealing. In this case, he simply used his job at the bank to lend credibility to his scam. For many years, even when I was visiting Thailand as a tourist, it amazed me the amount of elderly foreigners that I saw withdrawing large amounts of cash inside a bank. It may have been for a large purchase, or even just their monthly withdrawal for all living expenses. I always thought it would be nothing for a dodgy young teller to pass on this information with a simple "scratch of the head" to an accomplice across the road and the customer is followed and robbed, or, the customer's address given and their place is broken into the next day. The information sold for a "spotters fee." Should a bank staff member be caught doing this, should the bank have to refund the victims of the robberies? I would think not. It will be interesting to see which way the court rules. Your funds have never been safe here. Look upon paying the agent as insurance for your 800K. ????

Too little, too late.

I agree. Thailand is a 3rd World Country with 3rd World governance, and with a 3rd World policing and judicial system. It's one of the reasons I don't even bring in the 800k for the annual extension, and pay an agent. It would be nothing for the Thai government to freeze bank deposits over 100k, and renege on their 1 million baht government guarantee on bank deposits, especially now with Thailand being in record household debt, and a big drop in GDP due to the lack of tourism here over 18 months, and with more covid pain still to come. It's difficult to know just how exposed the Thai banks are, and despite their bank deposit guarantee, I don't think the Thai government would bail them out, and even if they did, all funds would not be at call for immediate transfer, with foreigners probably being at the bottom of the list.

It will be an interesting case. It would be good to know all the details of this crime, but from what I have read, the main legal arguments will be as follows: The bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the member of staff redirected 1 baht of funds, effectively stealing the money, he ceased to be a representative of the bank, as he was now working outside of his terms of employment, and at that point was perpetrating a crime, for which the bank can not be responsible for. The victim's legal argument will be, they had every reason to believe the staff member was selling them one of the bank's products, particularly as all transactions were carried out inside the bank, by a staff member, with official documents for the bank, albeit, forged or fake documents, but once again, the bank's legal argument will be, from the moment the staff member forged or altered the bank's documents, that document ceased to actually be the product of the bank's. Central to the case for the victims will be the use of forged bank documents, including the bank books. Central to the case for the bank will be the bank never financially gained from the actions of the staff member, therefore, his actions were solely for his own criminal benefit, so the bank was not a a willing participant in the crime, either knowingly, or unknowingly. The bank will argue that whilst their preventative measures and supervisory systems have failed to protect customers in this case, such failures does not make the bank culpable, and therefore subject to offering compensation. The victim's will argue, and I think it's their strongest legal argument, that from the time their money hit their account in the bank, the bank then "owned" their money, and was responsible for it. So, in effect, the staff member stole the bank's money, not the victim's money, which means the victims should have their money returned, and the bank chase the criminal staff member for the money. Of course, the bank will argue, the victims willingly transferred their money to a criminal, and therefore the bank can not be liable for the funds. It's possible this case could get tied up in the Thai court system for years, and as many of the victims are elderly expats, many may now be forced to return to their home country, broke, or possibly pass away before a determination is made in this case. Thailand is a 3rd World country, with 3rd World governance, and a 3rd World policing and judicial system. The saying, "never bring money into Thailand that you are not prepared to lose" is also true of the Thai banking system, especially now, with Thailand having record household debt.

You make an interesting point. Pre covid, Walking Street was busy. Thousands walking up and down every night, observing and taking photos, however, the bars, restaurants, gogo's and nightclubs on Walking Street were not busy. It's free to go to Walking Street, as it is a mall. I am specifically talking about customers purchasing items in the shops in the malls, not tourists soaking up some air conditioning and getting a photo with the displays in T21. When walking past the shops in the malls, how many tourists do you see in the, handing over money or a credit card? How many tourists do you see walking around the mall carrying the brand name shopping bags after purchasing something? For me, "busy" is not Thai's and expats going to Central to do their banking or sorting out a problem with their phone. Likewise, "busy" is also not tourists window shopping, and passing some time whilst escaping the heat, whilst maybe sitting on a coffee for an hour. The food court can be busy, and certainly generates some pedestrian traffic through the mall, but the cheap eats on offer isn't flowing on to retail sales. If we got the total number of people through the door, and compared that to the total number of individual sales in every business in the mall, I think you would find a big disparity. Eg. only 1 in 20 people attending the mall actually bought something. "Busy" isn't worth much if the people don't actually buy anything.

We will have to disagree on this. That was not my observations on many visits to those malls, pre covid.

Is Pattaya even attracting upper and middle class Chinese, Indians, and Russian? Why would upper class from anywhere come to Pattaya? I don't see the Chinese flag followers in the malls here.

I basically pay a bribe to immigration every year. Never had a problem. ????

Yawn. Try to keep up, Harry. I commented on coach buses, which carry around 58 passengers, yet Somchai the bus driver, gets paid 300 baht a day, and has a licence he most likely paid a bribe to get, where as the pilot of an ATR 72 has to meet international qualification standards.

Next announcement will be they are closing down the restaurants because they are causing the spread of covid, but bars are allowed to open. ????

Some of Thailand's best discoveries have been made whilst Thai's have been relieving themselves. ????

It should be moved to a museum so future generations of Thai's can see how well the country has progressed. ????