mark131v

Was just in Pattaya Ford on Sukhumvit yesterday. There are going to be a lot of happy new Ranger owners. The back service yard and sides were packed with bright shiny Rangers in all guises. The Wildtrac sure is popular. As are four-doors.

I am picking up mine tomrrow after 8 month wait Chil WT 2.2 2wd.

Might as well have ordered a Lambo from Italy that would have been faster.

You are lucky mate I have had a 3.2 ordered since 25th Feb last year had been promised delivery numerous times including January then ' definitly by Valentines Day' guess what no car!!

I have thrown a wobbly about it and was on the verge of telling them to poke it, I even went and test drove an Isuzu and a Mazda but the Isuzu felt like a tractor and the looks of the Mazda just dont do it for me even though it drove great

Have still yet to drive a 2.2 Auto and I have decided to hang on for the 3.2 through gritted teeth and I am not an happy ted about it, latest delivery for our Chilli one end of April though I did get the manager to confirm she would pay for our tax and insurance if it went past April

We went to the Chonburi branch to see if they could help and she was really helpful and said we would get first refusal on any WT cancelations but she too still had 5 customers who had been waiting since last January so it looks like it is a region wide problem so there does not appear a lot you can do about it

I really wanted the Ford as i've been really impressed with the wife's new Focus sport+. However, the waiting list combined with the uncertainty over delivery killed it of for me. The new D-Max is good but the Mazda is a star. I expect my 3.2 in a couple of weeks. My mate's took a week from order to delivery.

We have waited a year now so it seems a bit silly to compromise on a 2.2 at this stage like Ford have tried to get us to do but if they had mentioned at the begining how long it was going to take I would definitly have taken the 2.2 and I am sure I would have been very, very happy with it. I did put a deposit down on a 3.2 Mazda two days ago but I did it mainly because I was in a strop with Ford at the time and the red mist had descended, it was a really nice car and a way better drive than the Isuzu V max we had just test drove but now I have calmed down I realise I can wait a bit longer so that is a few baht wasted due to my temper and Ford's innability to deliver, problem is nothing else out there compares for me personally so patience it is, I am certain you will be happy with the Mazda though as the difference between the Mazda and the Isuzu was like night and day, one felt small and responsive and the other felt large and lumbering, strange really the large car felt small and the large engine felt slow.......

Was just in Pattaya Ford on Sukhumvit yesterday. There are going to be a lot of happy new Ranger owners. The back service yard and sides were packed with bright shiny Rangers in all guises. The Wildtrac sure is popular. As are four-doors.

I am picking up mine tomrrow after 8 month wait Chil WT 2.2 2wd.

Might as well have ordered a Lambo from Italy that would have been faster.

You are lucky mate I have had a 3.2 ordered since 25th Feb last year had been promised delivery numerous times including January then ' definitly by Valentines Day' guess what no car!!

I have thrown a wobbly about it and was on the verge of telling them to poke it, I even went and test drove an Isuzu and a Mazda but the Isuzu felt like a tractor and the looks of the Mazda just dont do it for me even though it drove great

Have still yet to drive a 2.2 Auto and I have decided to hang on for the 3.2 through gritted teeth and I am not an happy ted about it, latest delivery for our Chilli one end of April though I did get the manager to confirm she would pay for our tax and insurance if it went past April

We went to the Chonburi branch to see if they could help and she was really helpful and said we would get first refusal on any WT cancelations but she too still had 5 customers who had been waiting since last January so it looks like it is a region wide problem so there does not appear a lot you can do about it

Blimey Jim something we agree on as it does indeed state to own, whether a land office would register it or not I really have no idea but I presume you must have spoken to a few offices to come to that conclusion

James you keep banging on about this we bought the house 18 months ago and I did sign to say that I had no claim on the land, nothing dodgy in that and personally I think you are wrong

Our local land office processed this and anotated all the paperwork and they know that it is an house and not a farm or mine, how is this dodgy, Thai law allows for usufructs and leases but does not allow for a foreigner to own land....I do not own any land but have been gifted the use of the home as her husband once I die it reverts back to Thai I have no issues with this and neither apparantly do the local officials who are the subject matter experts

If I was in this as a way to own land maybe I would be worried about the usefruct being voided by the wife but my reason for the ufestruct is not to own land it is to provide stability if my wife dies, If we were to divorce I have absolutely no qualms about the contract being declared null as I would still be wanting to provide for my family plus I would still be eligible to 50% on divorce anyway as everybody else is when married here

I think you are a bit paranoid James and I am very happy that I have played by the rules and unless anything changes and the laws are rewritten that I will be here for the long run, like I said the local subject matter experts are happy to offer this to a Farang with no lawyers deceit or bribes involved, my name is on the chanote and it does state I have the right to stay here till I die and I am certain I will not be going to the monkey house any time soon so we will have to agree to disagree on this......again!

For anyone out there considering doing this from my experience with a little knowledge of the process all gained here, my pov is it is a straightforward cheap and for me and gives some piece of mind, there are many things illegal in this country that people in authority and the goverment close a blind eye to but usually this is preceeded with a bribe to enable it, personally I believe this is legal and above board but if you are using it as a backdoor way to get land then maybe against the spirit of the law

Bigwilly out marriage was done in Thailand but had been registered when we lived back in the UK but a marriage certificate that is translated and and verified is still a marriage certificate as far as I can see....

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

Sorry mate but I have no idea about this but if you have a usefruct for the land anything placed on the land is already covered, if you are worried about what happens if the Missus pops her clogs before you as I was and then possibly being turfed off the land/house then the usufruct covers it, the chanote is annotated on the back to indicate that you have the right to stay on the land for life and this was confirmed to me by the land officer

The guys I listened to who gave out good advice where Chiangmai Bruce and Khun Jean it may be worth PMing them for info, there where lots of others too but they are the ones who come to mind, there really is a lot on this forum and in the link in the other thread you just have to search through the negativity to find it..... personally I cannot see how using the FiL would make any difference

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Not trying to be a pain in the bum, I was just a little confused when you suggested a non married person should go for a lease.

A couple of years back I did reseach usefructs, In fact I think I have pages of documents on the subject hidden somewhere in my filing cabinet.

I was just interested to hear from someone who has successfully gone down this path. Others on this forum in the past have dismissed it as non-viable.

No worries, as I see it the not being married option it is harder to argue that it is not being used to circumvent the law, hence the usefruct being structured as a lease with payment being made to the landowner and an initial lump sum of tax to the land office, picture a smallholder renting land from a big farmer for a set period or life

I think it is still perfectly legal to do a full lifetime usefruct without being married to the other party and without it being a lease but it is hard to see it as not trying to circumvent the spirit of the law as it would give ultimate lifetime use of the land/property, then again I am not an expert on the subject....as I said before I know a guy who did this with his girlfriend and when they split he is the one with permission to stay in the house to he drops off the perch and not her

I do not see how anybody can dismiss this as not viable it is written in Thai law and done without any lawyers or tea money....my name is now on the back of the chanote registered through the local land office and I now have permission to stay in my home until I die, divorce or somebody changes the rules......

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Edit

Just re-read you post mate, as I understand it the agreement if you are married or not is exactly the same but if you are married an you divorce all agreements made during the period of the marriage can be anulled, if you are not married in theory the usefruct will stand with you still being the beneficiary, hope that is a bit clearer but like I said I am no expert but I do know it is quick and easy to do and for my family good insurance in a worst case scenario

No mate, in fact I believe for most people being not married is an advantage as it is then not liable to being annuled if you get divorced but then that would probably involve the long term lease option and then require tax/tea money and could probably be construed as a way to get around the Foreigner owning land issue but I believe it is within the law to do

I just concentrated on the married aspect as that is what affects me, there is quite a lot on this subject on here including one poor guy who's wife did pass before him and the usefruct stands and can stay in the house until he dies. I also know a guy who bought a house through/with his girlfriend at the time and when they split this year after 10 years he is the one who is still in the house so it does appear to work

link to the sample form and a lot of useful information:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/usufruct-agreement-sample.html

all i took was a copy of the translation of the standard Land Office usefruct agreement

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Or if you want a Smartphone, the Nokia Lumia 920, which also uses Pureview technology.

Like I said the 808 blows everything else out of water camera wise and it is way smart enough for me, I really don't miss anything at all about my last HTC or having to constantly charge the phone

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/16500_PureView_shootout_round_two_No.php

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Or if you want a Smartphone, the Nokia Lumia 920, which also uses Pureview technology.

Like I said the 808 blows everything else out of water camera wise and it is way smart enough for me, I really don't miss anything at all about my last HTC or having to constantly charge the phone

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Mark

Have over 100 rai of rubber and a limited partnership company, rubber factory. Factory set up by a real business accountancy firm, through the small medium enterprise department.

Enough permits and certificates to choke a elephant, EPA, health and safety etc. Reality if things went wrong I would get what the wife gives me, have 2 kids and been married a long time.

As an non Thai you can not own or control land, unless through a BOI lease. All other schemes breach Thai law, some criminal law and you could end up in jail.

You can Google my name and rubber/Thailand/ Issan, I will pop up. Jim

I know who you are Jim I emailed you back in 2006 before we got our rubber trees and you gave me some good advice, the trees have gone well and we are now getting a wage out of them but that is a different story, like I said I know a guy who a few months ago split with his long term girlfriend and is now in the house and is covered to be there till he dies.

I do not know if that is against the law or not but it appears to be legal as I know a few people who have done it and it is all legal and above board through the land office. If it was illegal why does it get added to the chanote in the land office?

I am getting off track my major reasoning is the insurance in case something happens to my wife again there are posters on here who have gone through this and it has been held up that they are allowed to stay in the property until they die which is inline with the usefruct, I happen to believe them and you do not have to search hard to find the item as it was not long ago

Like I said Jim I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you but I guess we will have to disagree and just hope neither of us have to put it to the test...have a good one

Bruce do you know anything reference if it can be willed to a foreign spouse??

Jim, can you provide any actual real life examples of an ex-wife having a usufruct cancelled? I have not heard of any

Mark, yes, a Thai wife can leave a property to a non-Thai husband in a Will. According to the law he has a year to either sell it or transfer to a Thai (for e.g. a half Thai child) or the land department can sell it out from under him. BUT I have not heard of any examples of that actually happening and what appears to occur is that the foreign husband (quietly and unofficially) is often allowed to remain in the property until he dies or sells it at a later date. Of course you should not rely on that occurring, and presumably you would not want to have any upset relatives with their eye on the property, etc, calling for the law to be upheld.

Cheers Bruce, that is what I thought wrt the will situation i.e, 1 year to sell in the event of death of a spouse though I had heard rumours of the possibility to be left alone afterwards if you are lucky, it does seem that getting a usefruct is a complete no-brainer really even if it is just for piece of mind

I am married with a daughter so I am aware that we can will the property to my daughter when she is older I am also aware that divorce is always a possibility, no one least of all me expects it but it is a common enough occurrence none the less

I don't think anything is certain here and many things are blatantly stacked against Farangs but I do think that it is foolish to not think about this subject, I am 45 and the Missus is 37 so we are not expecting anything to happen but I have always been taught to expect the unexpected and we will get the usefruct this time when I get back from work

James I know a French guy who had been with his girlfriend for 10 years it went bad and they have since split up, they bought the house together with his money through her, she thought she was due the house and a big payday when they split, didn't happen as he had got a usefruct when they bought, guess who is living in the house now.....

Then he has one very stupid girl friend, she could simply have gone and told the land office that he gave her money to buy the land so that he could live there. Not legal, he may have even signed a statement to the effect that the money was a gift and he had no claim on the land. Criminal offence, making a false statement. Jim

I don't know Jim, I do know that he is in the house and she accepted a small payoff on the advice of a Lawyer and he is allowed to stay in the House until he pops his clogs, this was probably about 3 months ago but I will ring the missus and get the other info. No offence Jim but you are speaking from stuff you have no real experience of where as I know this guy in his case with an unmarried girlfriend and also have no reason to disbelieve the other poster whose wife died before him, I reckon we must agree to disagree on this...

Thai Gert,

We lost Deefa our older dog and got a puppy soon after to keep us and the other dog company, it helps a little, my other dog Mee is ready to go into season for the third time soon and she is nearly 2 if you are interested you can have one of the litter, she has no papers unlike Deefa 2 but she is a really nice happy dog, we are going to put her with another Rottie down the road from us, if you would like one of the pups its yours

Mee with Deefa

Deefa 2 with Mee

Mee

I am really sorry for your loss

Bruce do you know anything reference if it can be willed to a foreign spouse??

Jim, can you provide any actual real life examples of an ex-wife having a usufruct cancelled? I have not heard of any

Mark, yes, a Thai wife can leave a property to a non-Thai husband in a Will. According to the law he has a year to either sell it or transfer to a Thai (for e.g. a half Thai child) or the land department can sell it out from under him. BUT I have not heard of any examples of that actually happening and what appears to occur is that the foreign husband (quietly and unofficially) is often allowed to remain in the property until he dies or sells it at a later date. Of course you should not rely on that occurring, and presumably you would not want to have any upset relatives with their eye on the property, etc, calling for the law to be upheld.

Cheers Bruce, that is what I thought wrt the will situation i.e, 1 year to sell in the event of death of a spouse though I had heard rumours of the possibility to be left alone afterwards if you are lucky, it does seem that getting a usefruct is a complete no-brainer really even if it is just for piece of mind

I am married with a daughter so I am aware that we can will the property to my daughter when she is older I am also aware that divorce is always a possibility, no one least of all me expects it but it is a common enough occurrence none the less

I don't think anything is certain here and many things are blatantly stacked against Farangs but I do think that it is foolish to not think about this subject, I am 45 and the Missus is 37 so we are not expecting anything to happen but I have always been taught to expect the unexpected and we will get the usefruct this time when I get back from work

James I know a French guy who had been with his girlfriend for 10 years it went bad and they have since split up, they bought the house together with his money through her, she thought she was due the house and a big payday when they split, didn't happen as he had got a usefruct when they bought, guess who is living in the house now.....

We lost Deefa our Rottie about 4 months ago after she was poisoned so we feel your pain, we ended up getting another pup to keep us and our other Rottie company it helps blunt the pain but we will never forget her...sorry for your loss

Don't waste time or money 1469 of the Thai civil code. Wife of a foreigner can avoid the Usufrunct at any time during marriage, or within 1 year of the divorce.

Wife can just go to the land office and cancel it, end of story.

Trust your wife or don't buy into land in Thailand. Jim

I think that is crap advice Jim, it isn't all about people getting ripped off but also about what happens if the wife dies before you, no pre planning and you could end up with a year to sell and a world of hurt, personally for the sake of a couple of hundred baht it seems like a complete no brainer to me

Wife can make a will, leave you to live there, kids get land. Usufrunct will not hold up in a Thai court for a non national. You have civil law and criminal laws that Govern this, plus family law..

As a farang you can not claim the right to own or control land, that's it. Jim

There was a guy on here not long ago who has been through the whole thing with his wife dying, the usefruct stands and he is allowed to stay in the house until he dies

I imagine if there where no children involved it could be an issue with leaving a foreigner in a house once the wife has gone even if she did leave it in her will and maybe you leave yourself open to family claims as well

As I said I am no expert but have read a lot of stuff on this and yours is the only voice I have heard saying it cant/wont work personally for the price of 220baht and a morning at the land office I will give it a go

Bruce do you know anything reference if it can be willed to a foreign spouse??

Don't waste time or money 1469 of the Thai civil code. Wife of a foreigner can avoid the Usufrunct at any time during marriage, or within 1 year of the divorce.

Wife can just go to the land office and cancel it, end of story.

Trust your wife or don't buy into land in Thailand. Jim

I think that is crap advice Jim, it isn't all about people getting ripped off but also about what happens if the wife dies before you, no pre planning and you could end up with a year to sell and a world of hurt, personally for the sake of a couple of hundred baht it seems like a complete no brainer to me

I think all buyers have different expectations and needs, I have had quite a few android phones and lately decided to get a Nokia 808 and for me it is awesome and I have no regrets. Personally I dont need a gazzilion chad apps that I will never use all I need is a good phone with a the ability to check emails with decent battery life and a good camera

I got all that in the 808 but with an absolutely awesome camera plus navigation 64g of storage brilliant video and sound capture and a good music player, I only have to charge the battery every 2 or 3 days and I am really happy with it....guess what the missus wanted for Christmas and she has had several samsungs a htc Desire Z and is still using a Sony Experia Arc till today that is but it is now in the cupboard as a spare as she has now got an 808 as well

Looks like Nokia are still making good products to me even if their business sense is looking a bit dodgy, again in my own opinion and as someone going to symbian from android I have not really got any grumbles with the os or the phone itself in the 3 months or so I have had it unlike my last htc which was getting me frustrated by the end of the first week....

Just had a look on those links and the one I saw yesterday looks most like the raitonloc one though the photo on the website is crap, if it was that one It looks really good and very secure in real life and I will certainly be having a look at them