mark131v

That is good to know Gary but what happens if your wife was to die tomorrow?

you could well be left in peace by the authorities or on the flip side you could be given a year to sell up and get out.....

If you have children they may inherit, what if they are too young and you where not recognized as the guardian or as is the case for many people there are children from previous marriages as well as the present one who maybe older etc etc....you get my point there are many what if's in life here and as you said your working days and chances to make more money may be in the past

I am lucky I am a young man who is lucky enough to make good money but that does not mean I bury my head in the sand and hope for the best I have spent twenty years in the military and burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best is a sure fire way for bad stuff to happen

The usefruct is not there to control or own land it is in our case solely to have the peace of mind that if something happens I know I have done everything I can to help with mine and my families future this is the point that Jim can't seem to get his head around!! I think there are very many people in the same position as myself and it really is a complete no-brainer for me

I know my wife and have absolutely zero concerns there, never say never and all that but we have been together since 2002 and if she had wanted to take me to the cleaners she had seven years to do it in the UK where she could have really had me by the short and curlies, if the marriage was to fail I feel certain we could reach an agreement and Thai law does indeed state 50/50 much as the rest of the civilized world does, I reckon if you was to divorce in the UK or much of the rest of the western world your average male may well come off worse financially than you would in Thailand

It is not about land ownership it is about having the ability to carry on living in the marital home for the length of my life barring divorce and changes in the law.,...it really is that simple and the government recognizes this right, it could all change tomorrow but I don't believe it will and everything done has been done legally and above board through the correct government department It really is not rocket science

People lose money and are taken for a ride, if I stop one fool then it's worth it. Jim

75 baht Jim....... 75 baht is all it costs nothing more, no bungs bribes or lawyers, your crusade to save 75 baht is noble but a bit over the top I reckon.....

Would be a bit more if the Director General disposes of the land and house, as he can, by law. Jim

Jim I keep on telling you that I think you are wrong I also think you are a little paranoid as well

if you can give any details of this happening I would be keen to hear but already we have heard of one guy on this thread who was given the right to stay in his home as part of a divorce settlement, another guy in another thread who wife passed on before him and his usefruct stood and he is able to stay on in their home till he dies, I personally know a guy who is still in his house after splitting with his long term girlfriend and last but not least myself, I am speaking from a position of personal knowledge as I have very recently done this and been assured by the Thai department responsible that it is now legal to stay in our marrital home for my lifetime.....

Then we have your opinion that says everybody else is wrong and you are the only person who is right, I disagree and for the price of 75 baht I have a little piece of mind.......

People lose money and are taken for a ride, if I stop one fool then it's worth it. Jim

75 baht Jim....... 75 baht is all it costs nothing more, no bungs bribes or lawyers, your crusade to save 75 baht is noble but a bit over the top I reckon.....

I think it is pretty pointless continuing to discuss this as you seem to believe you are the only person that knows what he is talking about, myself Jean and many others do not agree with you on this topic, the only important people in this are the land office officials as they are the subject matter experts on this topic and they too appear to disagree with you. I said way back that we would have to agree to disagree on this subject and I think we should do just that, you can rest assured though that from my point of view I am very happy and sleep a bit easier now it is done....look after yourself Jim and I wish you continued good luck with the trees

Before anyone gets on and tells me that it is no good if you are married as it can be cancelled on divorce I already know this and if it ever does happen that we divorce that is fair enough as I would be entitled to 50% of everything anyhow as I believe is written in Thai law, for us the main reason is if, God forbid, anything happens to the wife and she dies before me I will not have to rely on luck to keep me and my daughter in our home

Although it sounds like you have it sorted out, I'm curious if your daughter is a Thai citizen and could inherit the land anyway (assuming you were happy with that).

My daughter has British and Thai citzenship and will inherit it anyway further down the line but I want everything as simple as I can get it plus now it is done it is one less thing to worry about....

The pinnacle resort south of Jomtien is nice with a good beech and some nice resteraunts too

Jim, I think you are wrong, the local goverment officials who are responsible for implementation of the law also think you are wrong.....

Swissie I would not trust any lawyer as far as I could spit beauty is with a usufruct you do not need a lawyer or bribes or anything else other than a bit of time, research and 75 baht, why dont you do like Jim and do your own research then you can speak from a position of knowledge you might then realise why the vast majority of people do not agree with Jim's opinion

Was just in Pattaya Ford on Sukhumvit yesterday. There are going to be a lot of happy new Ranger owners. The back service yard and sides were packed with bright shiny Rangers in all guises. The Wildtrac sure is popular. As are four-doors.

I am picking up mine tomrrow after 8 month wait Chil WT 2.2 2wd.

Might as well have ordered a Lambo from Italy that would have been faster.

You are lucky mate I have had a 3.2 ordered since 25th Feb last year had been promised delivery numerous times including January then ' definitly by Valentines Day' guess what no car!!

I have thrown a wobbly about it and was on the verge of telling them to poke it, I even went and test drove an Isuzu and a Mazda but the Isuzu felt like a tractor and the looks of the Mazda just dont do it for me even though it drove great

Have still yet to drive a 2.2 Auto and I have decided to hang on for the 3.2 through gritted teeth and I am not an happy ted about it, latest delivery for our Chilli one end of April though I did get the manager to confirm she would pay for our tax and insurance if it went past April

We went to the Chonburi branch to see if they could help and she was really helpful and said we would get first refusal on any WT cancelations but she too still had 5 customers who had been waiting since last January so it looks like it is a region wide problem so there does not appear a lot you can do about it

I really wanted the Ford as i've been really impressed with the wife's new Focus sport+. However, the waiting list combined with the uncertainty over delivery killed it of for me. The new D-Max is good but the Mazda is a star. I expect my 3.2 in a couple of weeks. My mate's took a week from order to delivery.

We have waited a year now so it seems a bit silly to compromise on a 2.2 at this stage like Ford have tried to get us to do but if they had mentioned at the begining how long it was going to take I would definitly have taken the 2.2 and I am sure I would have been very, very happy with it. I did put a deposit down on a 3.2 Mazda two days ago but I did it mainly because I was in a strop with Ford at the time and the red mist had descended, it was a really nice car and a way better drive than the Isuzu V max we had just test drove but now I have calmed down I realise I can wait a bit longer so that is a few baht wasted due to my temper and Ford's innability to deliver, problem is nothing else out there compares for me personally so patience it is, I am certain you will be happy with the Mazda though as the difference between the Mazda and the Isuzu was like night and day, one felt small and responsive and the other felt large and lumbering, strange really the large car felt small and the large engine felt slow.......

Was just in Pattaya Ford on Sukhumvit yesterday. There are going to be a lot of happy new Ranger owners. The back service yard and sides were packed with bright shiny Rangers in all guises. The Wildtrac sure is popular. As are four-doors.

I am picking up mine tomrrow after 8 month wait Chil WT 2.2 2wd.

Might as well have ordered a Lambo from Italy that would have been faster.

You are lucky mate I have had a 3.2 ordered since 25th Feb last year had been promised delivery numerous times including January then ' definitly by Valentines Day' guess what no car!!

I have thrown a wobbly about it and was on the verge of telling them to poke it, I even went and test drove an Isuzu and a Mazda but the Isuzu felt like a tractor and the looks of the Mazda just dont do it for me even though it drove great

Have still yet to drive a 2.2 Auto and I have decided to hang on for the 3.2 through gritted teeth and I am not an happy ted about it, latest delivery for our Chilli one end of April though I did get the manager to confirm she would pay for our tax and insurance if it went past April

We went to the Chonburi branch to see if they could help and she was really helpful and said we would get first refusal on any WT cancelations but she too still had 5 customers who had been waiting since last January so it looks like it is a region wide problem so there does not appear a lot you can do about it

Blimey Jim something we agree on as it does indeed state to own, whether a land office would register it or not I really have no idea but I presume you must have spoken to a few offices to come to that conclusion

James you keep banging on about this we bought the house 18 months ago and I did sign to say that I had no claim on the land, nothing dodgy in that and personally I think you are wrong

Our local land office processed this and anotated all the paperwork and they know that it is an house and not a farm or mine, how is this dodgy, Thai law allows for usufructs and leases but does not allow for a foreigner to own land....I do not own any land but have been gifted the use of the home as her husband once I die it reverts back to Thai I have no issues with this and neither apparantly do the local officials who are the subject matter experts

If I was in this as a way to own land maybe I would be worried about the usefruct being voided by the wife but my reason for the ufestruct is not to own land it is to provide stability if my wife dies, If we were to divorce I have absolutely no qualms about the contract being declared null as I would still be wanting to provide for my family plus I would still be eligible to 50% on divorce anyway as everybody else is when married here

I think you are a bit paranoid James and I am very happy that I have played by the rules and unless anything changes and the laws are rewritten that I will be here for the long run, like I said the local subject matter experts are happy to offer this to a Farang with no lawyers deceit or bribes involved, my name is on the chanote and it does state I have the right to stay here till I die and I am certain I will not be going to the monkey house any time soon so we will have to agree to disagree on this......again!

For anyone out there considering doing this from my experience with a little knowledge of the process all gained here, my pov is it is a straightforward cheap and for me and gives some piece of mind, there are many things illegal in this country that people in authority and the goverment close a blind eye to but usually this is preceeded with a bribe to enable it, personally I believe this is legal and above board but if you are using it as a backdoor way to get land then maybe against the spirit of the law

Bigwilly out marriage was done in Thailand but had been registered when we lived back in the UK but a marriage certificate that is translated and and verified is still a marriage certificate as far as I can see....

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

As I understand it a Suprficie is similar to a Usufruct and is intended to cover any structure (house for my purposes) on the land for which you already have a Usufruct registered.

Sorry mate but I have no idea about this but if you have a usefruct for the land anything placed on the land is already covered, if you are worried about what happens if the Missus pops her clogs before you as I was and then possibly being turfed off the land/house then the usufruct covers it, the chanote is annotated on the back to indicate that you have the right to stay on the land for life and this was confirmed to me by the land officer

The guys I listened to who gave out good advice where Chiangmai Bruce and Khun Jean it may be worth PMing them for info, there where lots of others too but they are the ones who come to mind, there really is a lot on this forum and in the link in the other thread you just have to search through the negativity to find it..... personally I cannot see how using the FiL would make any difference

Bpuumike, sorry I have no idea what you are talking about

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Not trying to be a pain in the bum, I was just a little confused when you suggested a non married person should go for a lease.

A couple of years back I did reseach usefructs, In fact I think I have pages of documents on the subject hidden somewhere in my filing cabinet.

I was just interested to hear from someone who has successfully gone down this path. Others on this forum in the past have dismissed it as non-viable.

No worries, as I see it the not being married option it is harder to argue that it is not being used to circumvent the law, hence the usefruct being structured as a lease with payment being made to the landowner and an initial lump sum of tax to the land office, picture a smallholder renting land from a big farmer for a set period or life

I think it is still perfectly legal to do a full lifetime usefruct without being married to the other party and without it being a lease but it is hard to see it as not trying to circumvent the spirit of the law as it would give ultimate lifetime use of the land/property, then again I am not an expert on the subject....as I said before I know a guy who did this with his girlfriend and when they split he is the one with permission to stay in the house to he drops off the perch and not her

I do not see how anybody can dismiss this as not viable it is written in Thai law and done without any lawyers or tea money....my name is now on the back of the chanote registered through the local land office and I now have permission to stay in my home until I die, divorce or somebody changes the rules......

Croc as I am married that is what affects me but you do not need to be married to take out a usefruct it a legal way for anybody to get the right to use a plot of land until you croak....

alternatively I believe there is also a 30 year option and as I said there is shed loads of info on here from people much brighter than me, if you type usefruct into the search bar lots pop out or have a look on the link as there is a lot of information on there as well

Edit

Just re-read you post mate, as I understand it the agreement if you are married or not is exactly the same but if you are married an you divorce all agreements made during the period of the marriage can be anulled, if you are not married in theory the usefruct will stand with you still being the beneficiary, hope that is a bit clearer but like I said I am no expert but I do know it is quick and easy to do and for my family good insurance in a worst case scenario

No mate, in fact I believe for most people being not married is an advantage as it is then not liable to being annuled if you get divorced but then that would probably involve the long term lease option and then require tax/tea money and could probably be construed as a way to get around the Foreigner owning land issue but I believe it is within the law to do

I just concentrated on the married aspect as that is what affects me, there is quite a lot on this subject on here including one poor guy who's wife did pass before him and the usefruct stands and can stay in the house until he dies. I also know a guy who bought a house through/with his girlfriend at the time and when they split this year after 10 years he is the one who is still in the house so it does appear to work

link to the sample form and a lot of useful information:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/usufruct-agreement-sample.html

all i took was a copy of the translation of the standard Land Office usefruct agreement

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Or if you want a Smartphone, the Nokia Lumia 920, which also uses Pureview technology.

Like I said the 808 blows everything else out of water camera wise and it is way smart enough for me, I really don't miss anything at all about my last HTC or having to constantly charge the phone

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/16500_PureView_shootout_round_two_No.php

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Or if you want a Smartphone, the Nokia Lumia 920, which also uses Pureview technology.

Like I said the 808 blows everything else out of water camera wise and it is way smart enough for me, I really don't miss anything at all about my last HTC or having to constantly charge the phone

Gary if the camera is important to you I would consider the Nokia 808 as the camera/video blows everything else out of the water plus 64 gb storage, nokia offline mapping and the battery lasts forever, I am really impressed with mine and the missus has traded her samsung in for one as well

Mark

Have over 100 rai of rubber and a limited partnership company, rubber factory. Factory set up by a real business accountancy firm, through the small medium enterprise department.

Enough permits and certificates to choke a elephant, EPA, health and safety etc. Reality if things went wrong I would get what the wife gives me, have 2 kids and been married a long time.

As an non Thai you can not own or control land, unless through a BOI lease. All other schemes breach Thai law, some criminal law and you could end up in jail.

You can Google my name and rubber/Thailand/ Issan, I will pop up. Jim

I know who you are Jim I emailed you back in 2006 before we got our rubber trees and you gave me some good advice, the trees have gone well and we are now getting a wage out of them but that is a different story, like I said I know a guy who a few months ago split with his long term girlfriend and is now in the house and is covered to be there till he dies.

I do not know if that is against the law or not but it appears to be legal as I know a few people who have done it and it is all legal and above board through the land office. If it was illegal why does it get added to the chanote in the land office?

I am getting off track my major reasoning is the insurance in case something happens to my wife again there are posters on here who have gone through this and it has been held up that they are allowed to stay in the property until they die which is inline with the usefruct, I happen to believe them and you do not have to search hard to find the item as it was not long ago

Like I said Jim I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you but I guess we will have to disagree and just hope neither of us have to put it to the test...have a good one