Morch

Nonsense.

I'm pretty sure they were not aware of the date, or the scope. Their initial comments were a bit out of place, and took a while to be issued. That's not how it usually goes. Further, it's not like there's a whole lot of unity and brotherly love among the various Hamas leadership (and within each 'wing'). Add to that Deif being very secretive even on a good day, and it all fits the notion that they weren't 100% in the loop. Same goes, I think, for Hezbollah and Iran. With regard to responsibility, guess it could stick, but given what was posted earlier maybe doesn't matter all that much. If knowledge of the attack plan was in wider circulation, then Israel's intelligence failure is even greater.

Meanwhile, at sea..... Houthis seize ship in Red Sea with link to Israeli company https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-houthis-seize-ship-red-sea-no-israelis-among-owners-or-crew-2023-11-19/ and... An Israeli-owned ship was targeted in suspected Iranian attack in Indian Ocean, US official tells AP https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/an-israeli-owned-ship-was-targeted-in-suspected-iranian-attack-in-indian-ocean-us-official-tells-ap/ar-AA1kvabZ That's one way of keeping the flames alive.

"What happened to free speech?" I dunno, maybe you ask these guys: 2 men executed in West Bank for allegedly spying for Israel, as mob cheers https://www.timesofisrael.com/2-men-executed-in-west-bank-for-allegedly-spying-for-israel-as-mob-cheers/

Can they use the Covid-19 vaccine number?

You declaring it irrelevant means less than nothing. The 'new' Hamas Charter does not drop the goal of getting all the land 'from the river to the sea'. It even appears in the quote you provided. On top of that, the 'old' Charter was not cancelled, and is still referenced when it suits.

The Hamas political leaders would not be in the same position as those leading the military wing. They seem to have been taken by surprise - if not by the attack itself, then by it's timing - and the atrocities committed. Guess this could be used the other way around - with the Palestinians asking the ICC to designate Netanyahu as a war criminal etc. Sounds like a sure way to go for another pointless tit-for-tat. Given Israel's current state of mind, and past experience - there's a fair chance it will take action to make the issue irrelevant.

That would require several things - for starters, recognition of the ICC as an unbiased authority. Given previous stances taken by the ICC (and other UN related bodies), seeing them as impartial and objective is a choice, not an imperative. Just to get you started, look up who got chosen as being in charge of the current 'investigations'. Second, even if both parties agree on the ICC's authority and offer cooperation, there would still be the matter of complying with decisions - the ICC does not command armies, a policing force and so on. Third, the suggestion implies that Hamas is the state-actor representing the Palestinians. I'm not sure that's on, even as far as the Palestinians go. Peace negotiations are not about who's right. They are about reaching a compromise, not necessarily an even-handed one, or a well-liked one. Give and take requires authority - who's got the authority on the Palestinian side?

Civilian casualty figures in the Gaza Strip are high, obviously they could have been higher. There's no getting around that when conducting military operations in urban settings. Guess it could be interpreted in more than one way. I think the reason Israel got more freedom to act this time is because of the scale of the 7/10 attack and the manner in which it was carried, hostages taken and Hamas/other regional adversaries statements following that. All the anti-'woke' stuff is, IMO, just hijacking the topic to push a pet agenda. Plenty of USA political topics on where this fits much better.

There were four hostages released prior to the current exchange deal. The first two were Americans: Family of American hostages freed by Hamas speaks out: 'It is not the end' https://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-hamas-american-hostages-judith-natalie-raanan/story?id=104215713

Free speech in times of war? As in cheer leading the enemy? I don't think that's on in most countries.

Overall, one of the finer posts on these topics. Thank you for the perspective. I would argue some minor points, though - The level of religious conviction and indoctrination does not run quite as deep as sometimes assumed. Watching some of the clips (granted, released by Israel) of captured Hamas men, it would seem there's a gap between the image of 'holy warriors' and what actually took place, which some seem to have difficulty bridging. I think that while religious indoctrination is a powerful tool, it is also open to disillusionment - which may have a more lasting effect (at least I hope so). Even among Palestinians civilians interviewed, there is often a reluctance to accept the reality of the atrocities committed - as they run counter to other interpretations of Islam. Jordan's population is of ~70% Palestinian origins. So while 'true' Jordanians may be less invested in the Palestinian struggle, more 'liberal' (though not anywhere near 'liberal' in reality) and aware of the country's need for USA support - it's, IMO a time bomb. Eventually there will be a power shift, or a more successful power struggle than the 1970 thing. The issue with Iran was never (IMO) direct involvement. Iran does not operate this way, certainly not under prevailing conditions. In that regard, leaving the Hamas out in the cold was pretty much expected. But on the other hand, Iran's way of working through proxies means in can cause a whole lot of problems, and widen the circle of violence by spreading the conflict to additional arenas. That Iran does not (apparently) fully control all of it's proxies adds to the danger of things getting out of hand. On the larger subject of global reactions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict vs. the Russia-Ukraine one - this is were religion and prejudice play their part. This goes back to religion (and bigotry) being more emotional, powerful motivators than 'ordinary' politics.

And what do you think about what he says, Jeff? What is your take of his analysis?

As much as I may sympathize with their personal situation, the Israeli soldiers are fair game. That comes with being in uniform. Unless mistaken the first two hostages released were Americans (or Israeli/USA dual nationality). Obviously, Hamas will let go of those hostages that cause the worst PR. No surprises there. The test of how this will pan out is more to do with the next batches of hostages to be released, and whether terms would be adhered to or new demands raised.

From personal experience, Mrs. was averse to discussing these issues - but was turned around after some of the 'horror' stories posted here conveyed, and the evil elder sister making some hopeful remarks about related issues. It's worthwhile driving the point home, and being prepared. Post-funeral is not the best time to deal with such matters anyway, so easier to have a plan to fall on.

Better food on offer, then?

You can look at it this way. Or you can see Hamas pushed into a position where it cannot ignore the death toll and destruction meted. Consider the 'exchange rate', which used to stand at hundreds (or more) for a single Israeli hostage/captive. Or the fact that the halt in Israeli operations is conditional on the Hamas sticking to the arrangement, and with no assurances it would stop after hostages are released. So far, there is no universal pressure on Israel to withdraw, no Israeli opposition to ongoing operations. And other than hot air - not much support for the Palestinians (let alone, Hamas). In comparison to previous iterations, this is the most Israel could expect.

Yes, the miscalculation thing is quite obvious. But 'against' the major thrust of your comment, I think it applies to the Biden's administrations' support - I think the expectation was that Israel's response would be reined in way earlier. Same goes for Macron, btw - because for all the attempts at appearing even handed, there's no strong action by France to curb Israeli operations in the Gaza Strip. I do think that the death toll in the Gaza Strip is very high, maybe even higher than Israel expected. Then again, I'm not one to absolve Hamas of the responsibility of protecting their own. They chose the action, they knew the consequences. Simply saying 'oh but they are a terrorist organization, so what would you expect?' doesn't cut it. Not on board with all the anti-'woke', anti-left talk - I think it doesn't fully relate and that there wider issues effecting that as far as Europe and the USA are concerned. I think posters often use whatever current even is on hand as 'example' supposedly pertaining to general positions, policies etc.

I'm well aware of that, thanks. My point was that it's better to make these arrangements beforehand, and be aware of legalities. Facing these issues right after a funeral could be daunting, nevermind lead to mistakes being made. Seemed relevant to the OP's case.

I don't, really. Easier that way. One of the nicer things living in Thailand is that the margins are wider, less worries.

I'm not the one trying to defend Hamas actions, atrocities and conduct - you are. I'm not the one trying to paint one side as blameless while denegrating the other - you are. I'm addressing your posts - if you don't like them to be addressed, don't post. The forum got a policy on sources. It does not have anything to do with 'kow towing' to Israel, other than in your imagination. How did I, personally, lose? I have no issues with Netanyahu gone - quite the opposite, as posted on numerous past occasions. i have no issues with the occupation ending (with proper agreements and arrangements) either. That you declare both a fact and a done deal is, again, nonsense. Hamas could stop them kids dying at any time. You can ignore that, of course.

Again, consult with your Hamas leaders and spokesmen before committing Hamas to your own ideas. You do not represent 'world opinion', and there is not even a global agreement on what 'the Palestinian cause' actually is. Zionism is one of the ground tenets of Israel's existence. It is a rather wide ranging concept/ideology. That you try to paint it as represented solely be some of its more extreme versions is dishonest.

In on a marriage-based extension, and my thoughts on this is that if the Mrs. passes on before me, I'd probably want to relocate anyway. House and land too much to handle as a single elderly, and maybe easier to move nearer to facilities (we live in a very accessible village, but still...). Making sure that the assets one assumes 'owned', are actually so and that circumstances allow for them to be liquidated as needed. Guess a proper house/land plot sold would go a ways covering old age expenses.

That's your own take, not a given. And it ignores the issue of the Palestinian side not quite being up to it either.

Coming from a Hamas cheerleader, that's pretty disingenuous, if expected. Apparently, for you, Palestinians are justified doing just about anything.