Oblomov

I'd noticed of course and the sad thing was how easily so many were led by fear into accepting these restrictions and then changes, even when data was so tendentiously and selectively released without any factual context. And still, even now with all of the medical evidence, so little is being done to encourage people to take more responsibility for their own health/weight etc.. Robust immune responses come from good diet/exercise and that's something we can all improve. Not sure how subtle it was though as in UK these things were forced through after eliciting fear in the more timid, as well as those accepting an agenda that was far from truthful - no idea why people were so credulous towards Johnson considering the lies he told during the Brexit campaign. We'll all live with the consequences of the restrictions and lockdowns for a long time.

In UK, published data showed that some deaths occurred of fully vaccinated people over the last week - of course that was pounced on by some - but then context was added and those deaths occurred in the groups with myriad other complex and serious pre-existing conditions and all above 70 apart from 2 who were extremely obese. The others were in their 80s and 90s. Vaccines have certainly allowed hospitals to function in all the other important areas but they are not miracles. UK just approved a an oral medicine for treatment and one would expect more of these to follow, just as medical research makes progress in other arenas once understanding of a new virus improves. Any corona/flu type virus and this virus behaves as such, will always evade a vaccine to some extent Too many strains that constantly mutate for new vaccines to ever by fully efficacious but they are our best hope of getting life back to normal with people being able to feed and educate their kids and life to have some pleasure.

I don't need to as I'm well aware of the deep rooted faults but there is much more accountability and transparency and far fewer get away with malfeasance in office - by 'freedom' I simply mean that if we do take advantage of the good education here and then work hard, we have a level of economic and social freedom. Silly comments about napalm aside, it's good we can report on our seedy royals and expose govt incompetence and faults in the police etc... Perfect ? No! but relatively free to do and say as I like - yes it is

The point missed, being that there are medical reasons a virus is more virulent in a particular host - those that died in wars were mostly healthy younger people, often conscripted, and were undoubtedly killed by a single act of violence. No comparison As a species, to survive this and the next virus, a more robust effort to improve our own chances by our own choices in our own good health.

Another percentage we should all look at is what percentage of our lives we are going to squander by fixating on this solely, as we approach 2 years of panic and then chaos to lives and livelihoods caused by this panic. And of course of the absence in the dialogue of our own responsibility to our own health - health services globally are buckling under tremendous extra burdens linked to the global obesity emergency. It would be illuminating to see accurate data of those having the worst outcomes from this virus - my family members and close friends work in these emergency treatment areas and are quite clear that obesity and pre-existing and serious conditions (as well as old age) elicit the worst outcomes.

Perfectly worded rant buddy

The infections in UK consist mainly of the cohorts that are yet to be vaccinated ie the school children as the higher numbers clearly follow their return to school - the numbers are reducing as vaccination programs now focus on these groups as well as the boosters for the older and most vulnerable I think we all know these increases and deceases in rates are to be in perpetuity Also the UK tested around 900 000 + people per day to find those numbers whereas most countries test significantly less to find the lesser numbers - lower the testing = lower the cases - simple LOL

Vaccinated and tested visitors aren't going to go for the 5 days quarantine as most visit Bali for between 4 and 8 nights (according to figures published by Indonesian Tourism) so airlines won't take up expensive landing slots. At some point, they either make travel attractive and affordable or do without the 50% + of GDP that tourism once bestowed on Bali and it's local businesses.

As a very keen swimmer and beach lover, I don't think anywhere beats Thailand, Bali and other places in the region I've lived for extended periods. I've got a lot of Thai and Indonesian friends, whom I've known for many years, and I'd have to say it's them and the beaches that draw me back numerous times in the last 30 years. I certainly enjoy a lot when in London in the summers and I'm productive but the winters are long and gloomy in the northern hemisphere, so always get back to S E Asia between Sept/Oct - Mar/Apr. When younger I lived in the middle of Silom in BKK and right in Kuta on Bali. Now I'm older I found a very quiet dead end soi in Phayathai BKK and always find a quiet little villa on Bali. I know I've changed over the many years in Asia and every country here has also but it's still possible to feel very relaxed in S E Asia and find a great place to live without the huge cost.

I understand the myriad potential difficulties and you make it very clear. It's a pity really as the global issues that now affect us all need global solutions. Couldn't our health QR codes be uploaded to a global app, such as FB for use locally or a travel app such as Airline app/Trivago for international border requirements? Considering the cost of the restrictions and economic chaos has is now in the trillions. Are these QR codes, as I have on my NHS/UK app, unique and recognized globally? Thank you for the interesting reply anyway

Yes exactly right - also working hard during summers in London means I stay in the system with regards to taxes/health/investments in UK, so it's an added bit of security. I did try living fully in various places in Asia previously but for many reasons, it didn't work for me. We're all different with very different requirements but as you say, it doesn't need to be either/or. Hopefully travel issues lessen and we can all get back to where we need to be when we want to be there.

That's true

Living the last 25+ winters in Bali/Thailand and the summers in UK (when it's way too hot in Thailand) I wouldn't want to go for the full year in either place - S E Asian countries offer fabulous benefits with regards to condo rentals with pools and gyms etc.. Certainly don't get that in my London area unless I paid 100% of my earnings in rent/mortgage. But I do love the many parks in London, as well as the galleries and theatres, cricket and rugby, music, golf trips in Scotland, some great TV and radio, the bookshops all over London, no stray animals struggling to survive on streets... Of course, once the winter sets in then I'm off to the easy going happiness of life on Bali or in Bangkok. Or I was until all this engulfed us all. I love S E Asia but been fortunate to have been able to buy a couple of nice flats in rural UK on a regular wage and also travel extensively. Most of my Asian friends in more professional jobs than mine, still live in one room and have not been able to travel in the way I once took for granted. Sure Thailand or Bali allows me to have some amazing lifestyle experiences but UK has allowed me to do so much too that I doubt I could have done in many other countries outside of the obvious ones. I do agree that the rental market in UK is a shambles and you need to have been here a while to know how to find the good value.

I suppose these things can work and be finessed considering the numbers arriving but if volumes did for some reason ramp up, surely all of this stuff would turn chaotic - at some point we're all going to have to accept that vaccinated and tested travellers are amongst the most scrutinised amongst us, then streamline the whole procedure. I'm no IT expert but surely an app developed to be used globally over all borders with unique QR codes for each traveller would work - It's not as if apps are new technology and there has been months in which these things could have been developed.

I do of course, but my point being that for many, those 2 weeks or a month of holiday time are the time where we are relatively free from work, so being about to spend some hard earned wages (in most cases) would only do so in way that we felt 'free' for that time. We're no longer travelling to whre we'd normally travel but to the places we can get in and out without too much added expense and limits on what we can do in this 'free' time. I get your point completely though I didn't ever support the lockdown restrictions, rushed through Parliament after scaring half the population with lurid data bereft of factual context, and this creeping consolidation of powers should be resisted and will be in the countries that are more cynical about their so called leaders.

By

Why don't they mandate it - order visitors to change up 60k-100k at the airport - track them ensuring the money is spent unwisely at the malls and chain restaurants - when the money is dwindling quickly whisk them back up to swampy - frisk them to make sure they're not trying to fly out with any baht tucked in their socks - grab the next batch and hustle them off to the Kasikorn kiosk and so it goes on One problem - we come from free countries with transparent and accountable governments and we don't get led around by our own governments let alone by those of places we visit freely : )

Very true - absurd is the best adjective to describe the bonkers reaction to this virus relative to the lack of concern to the thousands of other risks we accept and even encourage every day of our lives

The bonkers thing is, all that to 'greet' verifiably vaccinated and tested people then after the shift, taking it all off to have a drink and a meal with a load of people whose status is absolutely unknowable.

Absolutely true - And these visitors are deemed necessary to revive a ruined Thai economic sector that will benefit many regular Thais, so make them feel welcome

You have to wonder how many sparsely populated and loss incurring flights the airlines will operate before it seems like throwing good money after bad - the airlines have their own financial imperatives to meet and apart from Thai, aren't obligated to serve Thai economic aims, as muddled and difficult as they are at present. Still too many additional costs and hassles to get anywhere near the levels of passengers that make flights viable : case in point - Bali, where I believe no international carrier has taken any landing slot with the so called 'opening.' Ours is a group of friends that has travelled around SE Asia for 25+ years to play golf, extended diving and beach trips and lots of partying back in the day - as yet, not one of us tempted to return with all the hassle involved.

The higher numbers in the UK are predominantly school children and students and the UK is very keen that a generation of students and their very important educations are not ruined - the enforced vaccination of children poses problems and cannot simply be mandated by governments so expect the numbers to remain high until natural antibodies occur. Vaccinations are increasing in these groups, who make up the vast majority of those yet vaccinated. As others here point out here, personal responsibility for better health as well as boosters, especially for vulnerable groups, will go on and these cycles of increase and decrease will be with us all forever. What people outside UK are probably not aware of is that UK tests over a million people per day approx., so of course can find 50k infections. Other countries are testing 50k a day and finding 10k infections - the testing in UK is done more for genome sequencing and developing 'tweaked' vaccines. I read a book some years ago about this and other viruses (24 others) and how they would seek bridges over into humans given the right conditions - it's a great pity preventative protocols weren't rolled out globally with the vehemence of the reaction to it.

I live more in Bali than Bangkok these days and what I can say is that Thailand is moving with slightly more realism than Indonesia's government, where they are complicit in the ruin and in some cases, ends of many erstwhile hard working but relatively poor people. As with any business reliant on customers, the proof will be in the numbers and if you're selling something, then make it attractive to the largest number, if there is a genuine desire to revive the lives of Thais and their small business, that have been mostly and much more seriously by these restrictions. Assuming every potential visitor has the funds for all of the extra financial obligations or the time to work out all of the changing requirements does not make that true. In Bali, the partial and restrictive opening resulted in only a ripple of interest so international airlines booked a grand total of zero slots at Ngurah Rai airport - surely a successful model will emerge! Maybe not : )

If they are serious about attracting the numbers required to invigorate important sectors in the Thai economy, therefore giving hope and the chance to work and earn money to the the millions of Thais utterly ruined now, then it's got to be simpler. Choosing an arbitrary date (Nov 1st) and not providing clarity about the burden on potential visitors, therefore more endless speculation, means only one thing - no visitors and no relief to the millions of Thais who need money and hope, fast. We al know transmission will ebb and flow, as this virus behaves like other similar flu type viruses. It's extraordinary that some are so fixated by this and yet ignore the personal responsibility to eat wisely and exercise regularly to boost personal immune responses to this and any other illness. Being unhealthy is being exposed to worse outcomes regardless with any illness. I hope Thailand does open and I hope my hard working and peaceful Thai friends get their lives back as we hopefully transition into the more realistic realm of living with this virus to lesser or greater degrees just as we manage risk in every other part of life. Having lived around SE Asia for most of the last 25+ years I hope these calm and peaceful countries reopen and those of us who are friends of these countries can travel again and contribute to the local economy where we travel, tip the kind staff at the hotels and restaurants and get some money back into a lot of empty pockets. Time for clarity and resolute aims to reopen in a way that is possible an desirable to the largest number possible of vaccinated and tested visitors. Ultimately the success on the reopening will depend on the practical sense of the rules.