David006

Here are some questions that should be asked and they should be addressed to a competent person within the PEA/MEA.

The Thai LV distribution system.

1. Is the neutral earthed?

The consumers electrical installation.

1. Is the main neutral required to be earthed?

2. If the main neutral is not required to be earthed RCDs are mandatory.

3. Are individual protective earth conductors to seperate electrodes permitted?

4. Are alternative protective earthing arrangements permitted where 2 pin socket outlets are installed?

And the answers initially should be a direct YES or NO to each question.

Then each question can be addressed in detail as required.

The questions should be able to be referenced to an existing current Thai code or standard.

perhaps we could also inquire as to how Thailand licenses or tests to classify class 1 and 2 appliances for sale in Thailand ( something equiv to IEE code of practice), especially since the electrical code is a bit nebulous? From what I have seen there is no superior insulation in class 2 appliances to rate them as such, never saw any relevant inspection logo of any sort....

Is there a body responsible...?

"grass not come from seed, grass comes in rolls" !!

This is great, gotta love Thai education.

off topic but...

I think the little lady can be forgiven that one....I once thought that coconut milk was the watery liquid that you found in a coconut.. which grew on the trees in a brown hairy state and a rubber tree was that green bushy thing in the pot in the corner of fancy restaurants and hotel lobbies, rice was just something what mum used to make rice pudding.. not to mention my visions of a "bread" fruit tree...so much for a grammar school education......

My FIL once watched me put butter on toast and asked my wife why I was putting ice cream on my bread...

...and what about the "school boy" opinion that a certain part of the oriental female anatomy was 180 degrees different from Europeans....

OK I really need to sort the garden out and while the wet is here makes sense..

Can it be ordered by the sack from other parts of the country ???

My wife once pointed out grass seed for sale at one of those Buddhist holiday expo markets in Trang..not seen it since,

I have used a transplanted "tuft and clump" method to produce something which I euphemistically call a lawn..the sprigs and tufts/clods came from various locations around the farm..lol very hardy grass though...looks a bit like that stuff growing in the rough on golf course fairways in Florida...

Wow... this thread has taken on a life of it's own and has certainly prompted many techies and others to further thought...

being a bit of the same persuasion, I thought I would throw this over the wall:

... I asked my one time co worker, an IEEE member, "...what HE thought would be the implications of a "dynabolt" earth or ground."..

....his response, though guarded (typically P.Eng ..lol), was that in some cases there could be a possibility that a direct short to ground by any appliance so "grounded" may well raise the potential of your habitation to at or near domestic voltages which may result in an exciting time doing the dishes in a stainless sink or taking a shower. He noted that this may occur if the "dynabolt" ground was more than 5 ohms. He emphasized that the best solution is always a a GFI/RCD which must use neutral as return leg ...never ground.

so here you have it, another opinion to the mix....

Graham and Linda were "getting on a bit" and had been married for 45 years. Though they were far from rich, they managed to get by because Graham "watched the pennies".

Though not young, they were both in very good health, largely due to Linda's insistence on healthy foods and exercise for the last decade.

One day, their good health didn't help when they went on yet another holiday and their plane crashed, sending them off to Heaven.

They reached the pearly gates, and St.. Peter escorted them inside, and insisted on showing the couple around. He took them to a beautiful mansion, furnished in gold and fine silks, with a fully stocked kitchen and even a waterfall in the master bathroom. A maid could be seen hanging their favourite clothes in the closet. They gasped in astonishment when St. Peter said, 'Welcome to Heaven. This will be your home now.'

Graham asked Peter how much all this was going to cost.

'Why, nothing,' Peter replied, 'remember, this is your reward in Heaven.'

Graham looked out the window and right there he saw a championship golf course, finer and more beautiful than any ever built on Earth.. 'What are the green fees?' grumbled Graham. 'This is heaven, remember' St. Peter replied. 'You can play for free, every day.'

Next they went to the clubhouse and saw that Graham's favourite beer was on tap, and Linda's favourite white wine was behind the bar. What's more a lavish buffet lunch, with every imaginable cuisine was laid out before them, from seafood, to steaks to exotic deserts.

'Don't even ask,' said St. Peter to Graham. 'This is Heaven, it is all free for you to enjoy.'

Graham looked around and glanced nervously at Linda. 'Well, where are the low fat and low cholesterol foods, and the decaffeinated tea?' he moaned.

'That's the best part,' St. Peter replied. 'You can eat and drink as much as you like of whatever you like and you will never get fat or sick. This is Heaven!'

'No gym to work out at?' said Graham

'Not unless you want to,' was the answer.

'No testing my sugar or blood pressure or...'

'Never again. All you do here is enjoy yourself.'

Graham glared at Linda and said, 'Typical !! You and your fuc_king Bran Flakes. We could have been here ten years ago!'

\

To have a reasonable standard of living, 50,000 a month is approx what is needed

I would say your right.

..so what's that about 1700USD a month....would not go far in Europe or the US methinks..that'll buy very few fresh prawns and even less beer after you pay your heating bills,taxes,rates,gasoline,road tax, insurance, ad nauseam ...

The favourable weather, prices, for the most part lovely happy Thai people and freedoms in Thailand are what make it an attractive and pleasant place to be and maybe turn up your clogs.....

...you can probably count on one hand the happy smiling faces on a London bus...lol and they are probably Somalian refugees or retirees on their way to the airport for their Thai' bound flight.

No, it has a two pin plug, AND a seperate earth wire.

My concern is if I don't earth it, and the instructions make it very clear that it does need to be earthed, and something goes wrong, they may use that as an excuse to void the warrenty ( which I paid extra for ).

Thanks for all the replies. As for going outside, the balcony is same flooring as inside. I've looked for anything to earth it on without success, inside and out.

For the poster suggested the roof, I've several ( concrete ) floors above, but thanks for the thought.

I think I'll go with the screw into the concrete wall.

If you can hit a re-bar the screw in the wall may just work, but I'm really loathe to recommend it. Does the balcony have a metal railing that could be of use?

The problem with any of these makeshift grounds is that you have no way of testing that it's any good, until you get zapped. I DO have the kit (I also have a proper ground) it may be interesting to see just how good these iffy grounds really are.

It's highly unlikely that you'll void the warranty by running it without the ground.

Do you have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) installed? (vital on an ungrounded system).

It is not common knowledge ( for most of us atleast) but grounding that is not bonded(hard wired) back to the service panel neutral ( i.e. isolated ground rod or other option) will NOT necessarily trip a breaker...so effectively a ground not so connected is false security...better a GFI methinks

Grounding to a Water Pipe

Don't try this experiment at home!

A bare 12 gauge copper wire was inserted into the hot wire side and the voltage was confirmed by meter to be 120 volts. It was touched directly to a cold water pipe and did not trip the breaker! This is a copper pipe and extends without interruption directly out into the earth.

The DC resistance from both the ground and neutral electrical terminals to that copper pipe was measured and found to be essentially zero. The digital ohmmeter measured about 1 ohm or less to the pipe. If the earth were acting as a simple ohmic conductor back to the ground at the service box, it would have conducted 120 amperes and would have immediately tripped the breaker.

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

I nearly deleted the above post, instead I'll allow the poster to explain why he believes it to be OK and safe to remove the ground pin of a Class 1 device.

apologies to all for causing any distress or confusion among the sparky fraternity hereon.

ouch! I did not say it was okay or suggest removing a ground pin... I said it was easy...obviously I do not wish to advocate unsafe practices but from a practical point of view...

...perhaps from your vastly superior knowledge base you may care to give us a heads up as to why so many appliances and electrical devices are not equipped with grounding options with unpolarised plugs ( not just in Thailand!), I hardly think they are better isolated judging by the the standard of internal wiring I have observed? Are the marketers of three to two pin adapters to be publicly admonished?

Incidentally have just checked out our new fridge,rice cooker,water cooler and washer...all have Shuko? plugs ( effectively having a snapped off ground pin?)and hence not grounded to three pin GFI protected outlets...perhaps I should change the plugs...?

...when we had our house built on our farm it cost 9000 baht for a temp meter at the nearest road pole hooked up to 1km of power lines on concrete poles installed separately by builder at a cost of 100+k ..ouch,( NOTE: the KWH rate for a temp meter is double that of a permanent one ...which I found out thx to TV).

No need for any paperwork...forgot to talk with village headman but he didn't seem to mind when we met him later...

When we applied for a permanent meter a year later we got most of the 9000 baht refunded...and the power co put in a new pole on our side of the road without being asked at no cost to us.

Would not worry about it mate..many appliances don't have a three pin plug anyways ( fans kettles, blenders some rice cookers.) easy to snap off ground pin...

It might be advisable to get the polarity right though... a neon screwdriver tester will work for the outlet but you'd need a meter for the fridge plug...although maybe someone out there can remember which pin is neutral on the three pin plugs... if indeed it is standard.

Couldn't find any free destinations they toute.....Looking at the rates (in US dollars) it would maybe be cheaper or certainly more convenient to use your mobile...especially if you use an intl calling card........ and if your internet speed is as shitty as mine lol

Also the rates cannot be quoted in Thai baht..hmmmm

One day a 5ft 4 in Irishman entered the lift in his hotel and just as the

doors were closing a big pair of Black Hands forced them open and the

Biggest Black Man he had ever seen walked into the lift. Paddy couldn't

believe his eyes!

He stared at the man who gently smiled back at him, then this man said in a

big booming voice. :Six Feet Seven! 250 pounds! Penis twelve inches,

testicles a half a pound each! 'TURNER BROWN'!

Paddy fainted! and a few minutes later he woke up with the Big Man standing

over him.

'I'm Sorry' The man said, It's just that I am always asked for my vital

statistics and I thought I would give them to you before you asked me!

I am 6 feet 7 inches tall, my private part is 12 inches long, my balls

weigh over a half a pound each and my name is Turner Brown!

'Sweet Jesus Christ'!! Paddy said, 'I thought you said 'TURN AROUND'!!!!

>

not sure whats happening with TV ..posting reply before its written..oh well try again

"I don't think more "sophisticated" societies would tolerate domination by a feudal elite, a treasonable military coup, manipulation of justice,a rigged constitution and murder of unarmed civilians."

No ..your right never would be tolerated ..well excepting for a brief period of hundreds of years in Great Britain/Ireland/Scotland, Europe,Eastern Europe, Asia, Americas, Africas, ............naaa never happen....

Anyways way to go ..Nation...finally some decent journalism instead of unsubstantiated, unquestioned quotes by "reporters"...

How about wine ?? In Oz you can order on line and have it delivered at great prices.

Not that it is relevant to an on-line purchase but it would be so nice to have a decent deli and bakery in a nationwide chain store.

MMMMMM ...mile high smoked beef on rye with pickles and mustard...and a pint of Guinness

Some other "nice to have" non perishables for on line:

-Birds custard powder

-Pickles whole, sliced, Military pickle, mustard pickle,pickled onions..

-canned salmon

-Malt vinegar

-Cranberry sauce

-Maple syrup

-mustard powder

-canned double cream

-smoked oysters

-cheeses

-BIG bars of chocolate dark and milk, chocolate chips etc that don't taste like palm oil mixed with cocoa

-and what about decent heavy stainless cookware...brought ours from Canada bought in The Bay

-old fashioned cranking, counter-top clamp on meat grinder...the sound of wifey chopping meat for soup and burgers etc drives me nuts!

-tools

-"dollar store" stuff

the list goes on..

some available in major city stores and Malaysia.. agreed... but that is not what the thread is about methinks..good luck with the store..it'll fly if the prices are reasonable...

Even out here in the middle of "the back of beyond", in a quiet little village, the long arm of the law can still reach out.

Now involved with farming fulltime, the occassional bumping into arms of the law shows us that even the smallest village is part of modern society. Like it or not.

I choose to act or react as the case may be, quickly to fix problematic issues. Unlike most Thai villagers that shy away from resolution in favour of hours of conversation on the issues at hand. These conversations involve anyone who wants in, and result in a tangle of dreams, ghosts and hearsay that amplify the original issue beyond resolution. Therefore since it cannot be fixed, do nothing......

Such an occassion happened to the wife and I earlier this year. We had a visit from the Tax man. Not just any old Mr."T", the excise tax guy. For those of you who have run businesses here, you will know that this is the one taxman you do not want to mess with.

Anyway, for your amusement here is my latest offering.

Taxing experience June 2010.pdf

Isaanaussie

Mate you gotta write a book! this stuff is priceless and reflects rural life to a Tee...excellent!!

Well not wishing to suffer the time out issues or whatever of Foreverford and Lickey. I wrote mine contribution offline. Please find and get a laugh from the attachment.

Isaanaussie

Bloody marvelous mate goodonya...can just picture it.....'stop little bit for me", "Go straight"...love it..same same here mate..made my day ..keep it up

Thanks Dave,

Arh a Milligan fan! Man after my own heart... ' "Great little woman your mother" said Milligans father as the two of them stood watching her dig the air-raid shelter. Milligan responded, "Yes and getting smaller all the time" ' Cracks me up. Even the poetry, "Thought I saw Jesus on a tram, I asked "Are you Jesus?" He said "Yes I am."

OK. A few days ago I made a statement about living in Thailand gave the same sort of freedom that I had as a child. Of course I was promptly reminded that was only possible because of my hardworking parents. Well in order to explain what I really meant, I attach something that a friend sent me some time ago.

KIDS of the 50's.doc

Isaanaussie

Ok still ff topic but a great thread....

....Excellent mate ..so true..mind if I send it around to the rellies and friends? Good insight on life in Thailand! I was thinking I never see the kids build trollies although they do swim in any bit of dirty slough they can find lol..

re Milligan...my late father (Alf) was a gunner/driver in the battery with Spike and played in the same band ( played guitar). His war story books used my dads diaries..I have them all signed by Spike ...hilarious ...Mum thought he was a bit nuts but I guess that's true of all the great comedians...

david

yup....tons of 'em..we have had the big ones and the small ones have now arrived ( wife says can't eat small ones)... they are a royal pain...I put out a light away from the house which reduces the number trying to enter considerably but trying to read by the light of the rangehood is a challenge...just a fact of life here in LOS....probably make good compost.

Biggest issue.....the odd dead ones that you miss in the house attract ants!... And trying to sweep up the wings is practically impossible as they fly everyplace... gotta use a shopvac..

Now I don't normally whinge about my home in Thailand...but

I am getting very frustrated with the the powers that be re power ie 240v

Here it is sunny and fine, no storms, no rain S.W.F.A and the f..power goes off on a Saturday when my sweet darling wife likes to watch her favorite something on TV ...and of course off goes the power...okay its come back now after 35 mins but f..g hel_l ..get your bloody act together MKun power co!! I know we are not in western countries where we we would probably get a rebate based on down time..but my sweet wife loses her rag when she can't watch the <deleted> she likes..lol.and that reflects on our sleepy good times........OK back to my beer...enough said...

"Treating Wood"

" Small Deck - Should I treat the wood, and if so how?"

Size isn't important, just accept what god gave you.

couldnt resist it- probably only funny to americans

Very good .lol....off topice but reminds me what my wife said the other day after getting her sisters' laptop fixed.

"she needed new bigger dick drive, old one too small and have buggs"

on topic ..the hardwood planks (no idea what they are) I used on our shade house deck seem to be impervious to rot or attack except where they is residual bark...

Why would you ever feed an animal <deleted> from a can in Thailand...a Kilo of small fish is what? 25 baht?? steamed in rice cooker with rice and leftovers including veggies, spoonful of salt...better than a lot of Thais eat so my wife says.. DUMP THE CANS ...add from a bag of Tesco kibble to mix every once in a while ..nice change for 'em ...plus a bone or two and those fried chicken carcasses... loads of good cheap food for doggies here!!

We have four soi dogs plus a recently adopted PB shepherd....all seem fit and well on above varied diet..

...before I go destroying a cartridge..has anyone opened up a so called "non refillable" cartridge to ascertain if drilling a hole would enable same...suspect its a bladder but..? A new set of true Epsom cartridges cost more than a new bloody printer!!

Yes I have installed aftermarket product but they are less than satisfactory with gaps and lines and blurs ..head cleaning don't help

Thanks in advance

BBC = Biased Broadcasting Company

CNN = Completely Naff News

News is no longer about informing the people...it's entertainment and ratings count for the advertisers....this all reminds me of the movie "Wag the Dog"...sensationalism is what the masses want...a talking head from the early days of news when it was read won't cut it these days.....absolute unbiased truth and facts have gone by the by ...it seems.

I suggest it's not what the reporters want, it's the editors or whoever airs the stuff..play ball or move on methinks.

Just hope Al Jazeera doesn't follow suit....great reporting and seems not to care what others do ..as you don't see any advertising..not sure how they are funded?

The Meteorological Department assured that a quake, if occurring in the Andaman Sea, would have little impacts on Thailand.

Dugh!!! Geography not one of their better subjects....

Well not wishing to suffer the time out issues or whatever of Foreverford and Lickey. I wrote mine contribution offline. Please find and get a laugh from the attachment.

Isaanaussie

Bloody marvelous mate goodonya...can just picture it.....'stop little bit for me", "Go straight"...love it..same same here mate..made my day ..keep it up

I like waking up in the morning and I can't remember waking up happy in the U.K..

Enough said.

that sums it up eh!.....don't have that Sunday pm depression "f.. it f..g work tomorrow" always ruins the weekend..now every day is a weekend...

Seems the most popular thing in Thailand is the bum gun.. gotta love it.... now we use toilet paper as table napkins (doesn't everybody?).....dispensed from the inside out of course...bought this lovely teak dispenser too!!!