TroubleandGrumpy

You are right - I counted them myself and 1Jan to 30June is 182 days. Thanks for the advice - never knew they did that. Therefore 180 days is 28th June 2024 Also noted that February 2024 is 29 days - Leap Year.

Agree. However, it is unlikely to be sorted out by either in less than 3 months. Hopefully it will be 'delayed' due to 'implementation issues'. Maybe it will then die and go away quietly - like one of those 'Global Hubs' we keep hearing about.

There are many opinions on that issue, but it does appear to me that tax is 'liable' on any income earned overseas in 2024 if you are a tax resident in 2024 - subject to all the exemptions and dediuctions and any DTAs in place between Thailand and the country where that income is earned. How and when that tax liability will be applied is very uncertain - immediately or only when the money is remitted back into Thailand. Under the old way they only taxed income brought into Thailand in the year it was earned. Nopw it is 'taxable income' in any year earned (2024 onwards). IMO it will be applied when the money is brought into Thailand, because that money overseas could/should be subject to local taxation.

No one knows - not even the tax experts.

Yes that is the interpretation I agree with - it will be based upon self-declaration. Privacy laws do not exist in Thailand - in practice (same as riding a bike without a helmet is illegal). IMO the 'wise' way to deal with this issue is not to do anything that could come back and bite you very hard in a year or two or five. What I am doing is finding out as much as I can about exactly what is happenning, how the Thai RD will apply this change, and how that will affect me personally. That includes getting and giving thoughts and opinions on this forum, checking Thai RD website and many others, and when the time is right, getting advice. This is what I have so far: I am going to be a tax resident if I am still in Thailand on 29th June 2024. The new change/rules will affect me personally. Thailand and Australia have a DTA and the pension I receive is excluded from Taxation by Thailand. Under that same DTA the other money I bring into Thailand has already been taxed and is also exempt. However I have no idea how the Thai RD will decide if the money I bring in is taxable in Thailand or not. And I have no idea how and in what form the Thai RD would require 'proof' that I have already paid taxes in Australia on the money I bring into Thailand. What I do know is that just because Thai/Aust have a DTA will not mean that any money from there will be automatically viewed as having been taxed. Obviously because those 61 DTA countries would become the countries where those avoiding Thai taxation would invest their money and pay no taxes. What I am also very very confident about is that this will be a cluster (#) and Thai RD will screw it up. What I plan to do, if it looks like this will be a viable strategy, is to have everything sorted and filed and ready. I will not be completing a Thai Tax Return in 2025 - because I believe that I have no taxable income in Thailand. If/when I am asked by the Thai RD why I have not done one (or they just send me a taxation bill), I will send them the documents etc. that I have alrerady sorted and filed through a taxation expert/accountant. Another option is to pay a taxation expert to lodge my tax returns - but IMO in the the first few years of all this, that would be as unwise as sticking my head up lighting up a cigarette at night in the WW1 trenches.

180 Days From January 1, 2024 - Convert Dates (convert-dates.com) According to that and several others (and my Outlook Calendar) the 180th day from January1 is June29th 2024

More than 180 days (in total) is the official directive. Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Yes you are right. 180 days from Jan 1 2024 is June 29th 2024. That is the deadline date ????

How it works is as follows. Anyone who lives in Thailand for a total period of at least 180 days is a tax resident of Thailand. The new rules/interpretation starts from January 1 2024. Under this new rule/interpretation if you stay full-time from Jan 1 2024 to June 30 2024 you will be a tax resident (having stayed for 180 days) and the new rule/interpretation will apply to any income you have generated anywhere in the world. There are many unanswered questions including the one that directly relates to what I wrote above - "Is that 'tax payable' applicable when I bring that income into Thailand, or is it applicable even if I do not bring that income into Thailand'.

You and I and many others think the same - I will be avoiding paying any taxes in Thailand, mainly because I get absolutely nothing for them. IMO what little I do get, is more than paid for by the amount of VAT I pay, which is well above what most Thais pay (and most Thais do not pay income tax either). If they created a new category for long-tern Visa holders, and I was no longer subjected to all the 90 days, TM30s, Annual begging, etc etc., and I was provided with the same rights and services as Thais are - then I would be happy to pay income taxes in Thailand. When we lived in Australia for a few years my Thai wife was required to pay income taxes. BUT she got what I asked for above - none of the Immigration khrapp and full rights and all services (including free hospitals and subsidised medinies).

Not sure if anyone has already answered - like you I am going throiugh them again today - waiting for the Rider Cup to start. The Thai DTAs are an Agreement (not Law). Thai RD is not skilled in understanding all the DTAs it has with 61 countries. There is no clear directive from Thai RD on how to prove money in another country has been taxed. There is no clear advice from my home country about how I would go about giving proof to Thailand RD.

I agee with most of what you are saying, but I will also point out that what you are saying is exactly why so many of us are very concerned. The Thai RD is not well organised, efficient or rational - they will have a lot of trouble implementing this new rule - which means they will screw it all up - and I certainly do not want to be in the position of being 'in their sights' during the first year or two of this change. They are going to be severely under pressure to 'get more tax money' and theu will be like a nasty IO on steroids. If you think they will have the time or inclination to patiently listen to your/my pleas that our 'income' (money transferred into Thailand and reported by the bank/s to them) is either exempt from taxation, or not subject to taxation under DTA, or any others claims you/I make, then you are very very mistaken. Added to that is the potential that even if you/I start under the horizon for a year or two, the Thai RD will come knocking so to speak. When it comes to all taxation departments, they have 3 main functions - they have many but 3 main ones. 1. Processing the taxation returns given to them; 2. Providing advice and directives in regards to taxation related definitions and interpretations; 3. Investigating individuals and organisations that may have avoided taxes (now and in the past). They are 3 different groups of people and you do not want to be 'targette' by group 3 staff, and I cannot imagine that in Thailand they would be as 'reasonable or skilled' as those in my home country.

June 30 2024 becomes the deadline if you stayed in Thailand since Jan 1 2024 - you are then a tax resident of Thailand for 2024. That is the date I will be researching towards and planning about. Will I still be here because it is all OK; or will I be gone before then; or will I wait and see how it goes year 1.

Never thought of that - you devious bugger ???? I bet that the scammers are already working through how to pretend to be Thai RD Officers, and that the calls and Facebook Posts will start early next year. Most Expats are too experienced to get caught - but the local Thais will be a target - especially since the majority of them have never paid income tax and would not know what a tax retrun is.

The 180+ days is already done and dusted - you become a tax resdient of Thailand if you stay longer (in total) in any calendar year. I am still waiting their answers to that and a few other questions I asked. I think someone in the office did closely examine what words they were using - not a good thing for a legal/tax organisation. And I bet the only reply I will get is 'each poerson is different, you need to come in and speak to us (for a fee)'.

Yes - the firm's interprtation of the statement was 'earned income' irrespective of whether remitted or not. In the past (Thai RD decision) it was only 'taxable income' if/when it was remitted into Thailand in the same year that it was earned. Now it is taxable income whether remitted or not in the same year. The big question, as asked by another poster is (changed to mean exact) - 'does this mean only income earned overseas after Jan 1 2024, or can they go backwards into the past?'. My read is that it only applies to income earned from Jan 1 2024 onwards when this new interpretation started. However who knows how Somchai will decide. Yes it is - and that is just one of the many current contradictions - the Thai RD have a lot of work to examione all the ramifications and provide detailed advice in order to get this right. 3 months means they aint gonna get it right - maybe a year or two I would say. I asked - they have not answered.

As I indicated to another this was in an email from a legal firm in Isaan to all of its clients (I used them mnay years ago). As with all their legal advice/direction it is private and not for general public etc etc bla bla. As I replied to another member - it was not one of the big legal/tax firms in Bangkok.

I agree with your logic - and I also believe that this is 'probably' a misunderstanding - thus the reason I provided all those caveats with the firm's statement in my post. They have still not answered me. However, it is a legal/tax firm that has been in business for many years. If they can get it wrong and misunderstand things (whoever wrote the release) then there is also a likelihood that Somchai in the local Isaan That RD Office will too. I have found the 2023 Thai RD Tax Form and Guide - and (so far) I have not found anything in there that provides the details about income for foreigners from overseas Pensions and Savings remitted into Thailand. 080966Ins94.pdf (rd.go.th) 080966PIT94.pdf (rd.go.th) Still no info from the Thai RD rtegarding this matter - maybe this year? Home | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

I agree 100%. I/you/we do not need to do anything until end June 2024 - that is when the deadline hits and those in Thailand since Jan 1 will become tax residents for 2024 calendar year. Hopefully our issues and concerns will be answered well before then - obviously not directly - but that the Thai RD will have advised the tax experts and public about how they will implement this new rule. Meanwhile I am bringing in a little extra over the next few months - but not in any big lump.

No - it was from a legal/tax firm in Isaan. I too am not sure they have got it right - hence why I put all those caveats. But having been in Thailand (on/off) since 2012 I would not be surprised if Somchai in the local RD Office tries to nail me/others for not reporting money sent into our bqank accounts as taxable income.

Yes that was me. And that is the issue - should we tell them we have income but it is not taxable (IMO). Or should be keep our heads down for a while - at least until all the initial trouble starts. You know it aint gonna be good - I pity the first Expat nailed over this and hope it is not me.

OK - Thanks. I will change my post to:- "That is what seriously worries me. In 5-8-10 years time I receive a letter from Thai RD claiming that I owe millions of baht in back taxes, advising me that my passport has been 'held' and any attempt to leave Thailand before finalisation of the issue is a criminal offence and will be severely punishable (and will be an admission of guilt). 10 years it is - I guess that is better than 12 years or more ????

I just got another 'nightmare' scenario just sent to me by a legal/tax expert: Quote: "The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand. This is a significant change from the previous rules, which only required you to declare foreign income that was remitted to Thailand. The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required. However, it is important to be aware of the new rules and to start planning for how you will comply with them." Please note that this is advice and may not be pertinent or correct or apply to everyone. But if I/we are now legally required to report/declare all of my 'foreign income' to the Thai RD (meaning all my transfers into my Thai bank account) this is going to be a nightmare.

Good article - he basically says (and proves) that this 'money grab' is both unlawful and a bad idea. I wonder if the PM is listening - and who he is listening to.

That is another example of what is seriously wrong in Thailand. Those of us married to a Thai, especially those who are from Isaan, know only too well the positive impact our money has on the locals - especially those that live there. But the majority of the Thai authorities do not want to know that fact for vested interests. And when it is shown - the Thais quickly hide the truth, because they know that the authorities do not want to know. Thailand - the ultimate epitome of 'the XXX has no clothes' syndrome. Some would say that Pita was the young boy who spoke out (far too loudly).