TroubleandGrumpy

No - it was from a legal/tax firm in Isaan. I too am not sure they have got it right - hence why I put all those caveats. But having been in Thailand (on/off) since 2012 I would not be surprised if Somchai in the local RD Office tries to nail me/others for not reporting money sent into our bqank accounts as taxable income.

Yes that was me. And that is the issue - should we tell them we have income but it is not taxable (IMO). Or should be keep our heads down for a while - at least until all the initial trouble starts. You know it aint gonna be good - I pity the first Expat nailed over this and hope it is not me.

OK - Thanks. I will change my post to:- "That is what seriously worries me. In 5-8-10 years time I receive a letter from Thai RD claiming that I owe millions of baht in back taxes, advising me that my passport has been 'held' and any attempt to leave Thailand before finalisation of the issue is a criminal offence and will be severely punishable (and will be an admission of guilt). 10 years it is - I guess that is better than 12 years or more ????

I just got another 'nightmare' scenario just sent to me by a legal/tax expert: Quote: "The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand. This is a significant change from the previous rules, which only required you to declare foreign income that was remitted to Thailand. The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required. However, it is important to be aware of the new rules and to start planning for how you will comply with them." Please note that this is advice and may not be pertinent or correct or apply to everyone. But if I/we are now legally required to report/declare all of my 'foreign income' to the Thai RD (meaning all my transfers into my Thai bank account) this is going to be a nightmare.

Good article - he basically says (and proves) that this 'money grab' is both unlawful and a bad idea. I wonder if the PM is listening - and who he is listening to.

That is another example of what is seriously wrong in Thailand. Those of us married to a Thai, especially those who are from Isaan, know only too well the positive impact our money has on the locals - especially those that live there. But the majority of the Thai authorities do not want to know that fact for vested interests. And when it is shown - the Thais quickly hide the truth, because they know that the authorities do not want to know. Thailand - the ultimate epitome of 'the XXX has no clothes' syndrome. Some would say that Pita was the young boy who spoke out (far too loudly).

I saw the quote and they were still waiting for confirmation that it would still not apply after this change. The Thai RD or PM has not stated that the LTR Visa holders who stay over 180 days will be exempt from this new rule interpretation on income earned abroad and brought into Thailand. If I have missed that press release or statement please provide the details. The whole idea is to stop money 'laundering' and to raise income taxation - maybe they will be exempt, but maybe not. Yet another case of 'watch this space' because no one really knows. What I do know, freely available info on the web and from local Thais, is that the Thai RD has a history of totally screwing up taxation rule changes. They often over-enforce, then pull back, then start again, then pull back again - totally disorganised and extremely inefficient (compared to ATO or IRS etc.). Up until now they have just not bothered trying to tax Expats - too much work and too hard - but when they start something they are like a rabid dog and they go for everything they see move. If you think they will exempt any Visa holder, unless specifically told to by HQ, then you dont know how Thailand bureacracy works.

It starts 1 Jan 2024 - yes so money transferred after that is the issue. BOI are not the PM or RD. I have (both) and the tax expert does not know - needs more details on how they will implement this change.

Something tells me he is one of the good ones, and that we are going to hear a lot more about Surachate Hakparn. The fact that he 'attracted the attention' of those in the Thai Police who wanted to make sure he does not become Police Chief so they raided his house in public - speaks volumes. If he was one of 'them' (corrupt) then they would not have taken such steps to make sure he did not get appointed as Chief this time. This is a guy that was 're-assigned' to the HQ 'black hole' many years ago, and re-emerged a year or so later, and then became a Deputy Chief. He made some senior police upset over how he harshly dealt with the police involved in that execution of a policeman by a mafia member, and because of that the station police boss killed himself. Many years ago he had 7 bullets fired into his car, and he was told to back down when investigating the matter and that was when he was 're-assigned'. Those things and many other things tells me that he is one of the good guys. But TiT and I could be wrong.

Same in Australia.

When you go somewhere in Thailand are you alone - if you have a Thai wife/gf then place the booking her name and avoid providing passport - that way no TM30 is done and you dont have to when returning. If you are alone - it is likely they will lodge a TM30 - but ask them if they do - say you would rather they dont. If they say they will do, or you think they will, you need agent/condo to lodge a TM30 when you get back to condo. If you go overseas, your agent/condo must lodge a TM30 when you return - they have record of you leaving the country. The issue/problem becomes what happens at annual extension - some places strictly enforce the rules and penalties, some dont bother.

I hear you and understand - my Thai wife is in the same boat for Australia. For her getting to Australia was about the same as for me getting a Thailand Retirement Visa some years ago - but after that her path to Residency and then Citizenship was easy and achievable.My path to Residency and Citizenship here in Thailand is basically impossible - and I am a far more 'valuable' resource to Thailand, than my wife ever will be to Australia. IMO Thailand should have different Resdiency requirements for citizens from 'selected' countries, such as USA and Australia, that make Residency easier to be achieved. The Thailand Immigration Act, Laws and Proceedures were made in the 1970s and they are still mentally and structurally back there. I do agree that Thai Citizenship should be much harder to achieve than it was for my wife in Australia, because I can see what would happen if it was too easy. But Thai Residency should be far more achievable - and perhaps one day in the future it will be.

Nail on the head HIT. Tax exmpt in Australia means less than $18,200 (427K Baht today). Tax exempt in Thailand is 150K Baht. Which one applies under the DTA? Thai RD does not respond, and website useless, as expected. Do I have to pay to ask a Thai tax accountant? Anyone here know the answer?

Yep 57 pages and it is totally voluntary - both to read and write. Noen of the That taxation professionals know - and that is the problem. But even then, as my accountants back home always advised over the years - it is worth knowing and doing what is needed BEFORE it becomes a problem, rather than waiting until it is a problem. I will never forget the best example - "they are going to start taxing money in super funds over xyz amount and I suggest over the next month or two you move abc funds into your bla bla investment accounts". Sure enough, 3 months later the Govt announced new taxation rates for super funds - applicable immediately. If you know of a taxation expert in Thailand that has all the answers and knows exactly what and how the Thai RD is going to do it, please pray tell us all. Meanwhile I am interested in hearing what others think and any information, and I will likewise share what I think and information I find about what wil happen after Jan 1 2024 - voluntarily.

I would ignore the guy mate - judging by his past 'activity' I have added him/her/it to my blocked list.

This article from a while back shows that this was always coming: Newly released Royal Act for the Exchange of Info.... - KPMG Thailand The Junta overlooked telling people, especially the applicants for the LTR and Elite Visas, and they did nothing about preparing for it. The Junta allowed many of those target organisations and people to move money into and out of Thailand, using that 'tax free' arrangement - especially the Chinese based 'mafia' (some say 'overlords'). The Thai RD were not prepared, even though this has been coming for years, because the Junta was 'otherwise occupied' and never gave them the 'go ahead'. This sudden move to comply with 'international obligations' with regards to the 'trafficking' of money by terrorist and illegal organisations will start on Jan 1 2024 because the Thai Govt are desperate for funds. After many years of inaction, this should have been announced for 2025 - giving the Thai RD time to prepare. But I am sure that the new PM decided to implement the change immediately, once they got a good look at the books and realised how bad things really are. A suspicious person might say that the months of delay in getting a new Govt in place had something to do with both avoiding a disaster (Pita tearing them all apart) and also so that those who needed to move 'things' here and there, had the necessary time to do so. Either way, whatever the reasons, this is happenning and the Thai RD is not prepared, and we Expats could be caught up in the net, and it would be wise IMO to stay across this issue.

Good Point John. I had not thought about that one. Employees at Thai RD would be a serious risk. Did you know that when that Malaysian flight 370 'disappeared' many years ago, that of the 272 passengers 19 of them had false passports. That is also what is done with 'stolen' personal information - and the number one source is first world people visiting third world countries. I always let the wife make rural hotel bookings in her name plus husband - and then wait outside while she checks in. Give Somchai at the 'Royal Cheapie Resort' in Issan my passport - none and buckleys. OK at Marriott or Amari - but not the cheapies.

That 150K is the number of employed 'well off' Expats in Thailand - and the largest group is the Japanese. That number is reliable because the numbers are counted and monitored by the Thai Govt. It is estimated that there are about 250-300K 'well off' Expats who are either retired or marrried or digital nomads etc. Expats being any foreigner that stays in Thailand over 180 days in a year. That number is not counted or monitored as such - each Province does it differently and most do not count how many. They also estimated (at peak) that 1.5 to 2 million 'poorer' workers were in Thailand working (legally and illegally) with the vast majority being from the bordering countries.

Maybe True - Maybe Not. I do know that anyone who rides a scooter without a helmet needs to think a bit more. IMO Forwarned is Forearmed.

I think the delay by some Reps has been due to the single largest threat to America since the British invaded. Kamala Harris would become POTUS !! I think the proof and impeachment/s will happen in 2024 - some time before November, but not too soon.

I think that if you can prove a paper trail - pension to bank account - bank acccount to wise - wise to Thai Bank, then you 'should' be OK. I say should because that would be 'compliance' under any western Govt taxation rules and regs, but who knows how the Thai RD will see that, and what documents would they demand you provide to 'prove' the matgter. Translated? Notarised? Signed by a Director at the Bank?? There are three things that for me are the major problems. One is of course will Thai RD believe that my transfers into Thailand are taxable income. Two is as per above, what sort of hoops and jumps and expenses and troubles will I have to go through and over in order to provide the Thai RD what they demand. And number three is the Big One ???? Number thgree is that unlike most 'offences' like speeding, and others like our annual ever-changing dealings with Thai Immigration, liable taxation is a 'permanent' problem. Those other things are a once off event and although they can be annoying or painful, they go away each year. Liable Taxation is like Murder, it never goes away and if/when you are caught out, the investigation and punishment is backdated. That is what seriosuly worries me. In 5-8-10-12 years time I receive a letter from Thai RD claiming that I owe millions of baht in back taxes, advising me that my passport has been 'held' and any attempt to leave Thailand before finalisation of the issue is a criminal offence and will be severely punishable (and will be an admission of guilt). Imagine driving/riding around with the worry that if you are caught speeding today, the police will also fine you for every speeding offence you committed over the last 5-8-10-12 years, plus add penalties. That is what it is like when it comes to being nailed with taxation breaches - it was how they got Al Capone. From the most hardened criminals right through to the 'mai pen rai' folks, tyhey all know that you do not mess with the taxation department.

Me thinks he better keep quiet and stay hidden ????

Thanks for letting me know - I did not know that. When it comes to taxation it is never easy. Lets hope the same end game situation does not happen again, and this time 200,000 Expats leave Thailand.

Yes - I agree - but being prepared rather than reacting late 'oh bugger what do I do now' is a wise move IMO. If you really think that this is not potentially a huge problem (for some of us) then read this: Sending a large money transfer to Thailand? What to know about taxes | Xe Blog Quote: Income Tax The gift tax might or might not apply when you send money to Thailand, but the income tax almost always applies. Additionally, Thailand’s tax penalties are rather harsh. High fines and even jail time are rather common, even for rather innocent mistakes. Penalties and interest on unpaid taxes are usually 1.5% per month. So, by the time the revenue department notices the error and sends a notice, the taxpayer might already owe thousands of baht in penalties and interest. Fines for unpaid taxes usually run between about ฿1,000 THB ($33 USD) and ฿200,000 THB ($6,700 USD). Banks are legally required to report all remittance and other international funds transactions. So, even if recipients do not get a form, if they do not add the remittance amount to their income, it’s only a matter of time before the revenue department notices the delinquency and takes action. On a related note, when you send money to Thailand, especially if the transfer is large, Thai law requires senders to specify the purpose. IMO it is always better to know about it and make plans, than to find out too late and then your planning is rushed and under a cloud of hectic worry. IMO cooly and calmly planning for things now is a wise move. But as the Thai girls always say - 'up to you'.

I mean an average in 1 Million Baht being brought into Thailand each year - which the Thai PM wants to tax and the Thai RD will, unless you/I/others can prove it was not income but savings. And even then - it appears that part of the 'savings' might be included as taxable income on the basis that is was 'earned money' from previous years. Yes - those in the Thai Govt think illogically and do not plan ahead very well - it is so obvious to us all. When the Queen died she was buried within 2 weeks - everything and everybody was organised already. In Thailand it took over one year - and dont give me 'religious practice' - the real main reason is because it takes that long to organise everyone (and for them all to agree on where when and how).