TroubleandGrumpy

Yes - they get details given to them by the ATO who measures and monitors all Super Funds for income tax purposes. Plus they can request the Super Fund provide them full details if they are checking on someone.

Unfortunately you are 100% correct. Thailand has very oppressive taxation rules when it is compared to the rules and regulations of the tax authorities in the first world countries. Perhaps they are actively working behind the scenes to modernise and rationalise their tax rules under this new taxation regime, and it will all be ready for announcement in November/December. But IMO that is as likely as the following image. What will happen IMO is that a vast majority of foreign workers will not be interested in working in Thailand, if/when they implement a worldwide taxation system under TRD's current rules. Why would anyone want to take a job in Thailand for a few years and risk being taxed heavily and clumsily on all their money and investments back in their home country? Likewise, why would anyone with investments back in their home country even consider retiring to Thailand? They are doing exactly the opposite to what they have said they want to do - attract well off 'desirable' retired Expats.

I think you are right. But you are referring to the wealthy and middle class Thais - IMO the majority of Thais (such as those whose votes dont count) want Expats to stay and more to come. But not only does their votes not count, their opinions and wants dont count either. If you recall, in September 2023 there was an article in the BP that was from TAT, and it spoke of the decline in Expats working and living in Thailand (especially the Japanese and Koreans), and it stated that "The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) is dedicating 2024 to expats by offering benefits to this segment. Thapanee Kiatphaibool, the TAT governor, said the agency is preparing privileges for expats including perks they have requested for many years, such as lowering entrance fees to national parks and other attractions to the same rate as Thais." And then not long after TRD announced they are going to include Expats in the 'new taxation regime' and the TAT Expat Program disappeared into the great black hole that is full of previous Thai Govt statements, promises and proposals.

Sad to say - but it is true what you said. There are many thousands of Thai families who will suffer if their Expat provider leaves the country. If I was not married to a Thai and living in a house we/she bought, I would have already decided where I will be moving to - I would not stay in Thailand. It would be somewhere nearby - Philippines, Malaysia or Indonesia - and I would probably visit Thailand once or twice a year. As it stands now, I am putting together all the documents and reasons why my self-assessment will result in myself not needing to lodge a tax return, because I will have no income taxes to pay (using a joint tax lodgement with wife). However, if the proverbial hits the fan and myself and/or other Expats are 'nailed to the cross' by TRD, then the wife and I will be moving out. Probably to a country nearby for a few years so visits are easy - but eventually back to Aust (wife is a citizen). Both myself and the Wife are adamant that Thailand can go fornicate itself if it thinks they can hit me with income taxes, while being constantly living under an uncertain temporary non-immigrant Visa that requires reporting to Police every 3 months like a parolee, and an annual payment/application to stay and spend more in the country, plus all the other khrapp when moving or travelling inter-Province or going overseas. It is extremely annoying that despite me spending over a million baht to the Thai economy every year (which at 7% VAT is about 50-70K in taxes), that they want to squeeze more money out of me and force me to pay income taxes in return for nothing. If the local Provincial Somchais in the TRD Offices start to demand 'you Expat you pay 200K tax' (very possible) then we are out of here.

I agree that it would be very difficult and far too much work. But - it can be done if they really want to do it - I think it would go something like this. All remittances into Thai Banks will be reported to TRD - probably by BOT - maybe by each bank too. That information can be sorted based on Passport/ID number. That information can then be collated and checked to give total amounts remitted for each person. That information can then be checked against tax returns - Yes or No. They can then get the information about each person with a 'No' who totalled over X Baht per year in remittances. For Thais they check with (Dept?) against the ID number for details. For Expats they check with Immigration against the Passport numbers. Then they could send letter asking 'why no tax return'. But will they go through all that work? Do they have the resources and expertise? Who knows.

When I was first researching where to retire overseas in 2010, Thailand was in the top few places in every list. That is not the case anymore - and that 'decline' started after 2014 when the Junta took over. This new 'tax regime' being implemented in the usual incompetent manner by Thailand has made things worse. Best Places to Retire in 2024: The Annual Global Retirement Index (internationalliving.com) https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/best-countries-to-retire-2024-costa-rica Best Places to Retire Overseas in 2024 | Retirement | U.S. News (usnews.com) Yes I think a lot of Expats are either leaving, planning to leave (just in case), or have already left. But with regards to new retired Expats - Thailand has dropped the ball, or shot itself in the foot, or does not want them.

IMO you are wrong - you party pooper. Read my posts. Up to you.

Quote "Income derived from employment ..........". That is only applicable to salary received as a pension for work performed AFTER 1 Jan 2024. In other words, you are not taxed on salary earned before 1 Jan 2024. Or are you saying we have to pay taxes in Thailand on money we earned in 2000 that was put into a Super Fund? No mate - money earned before 1 Jan 2024 is exempt from the new rule. Section 41 A taxpayer who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment, or from business carried on in Thailand, or from business of an employer residing in Thailand, or from a property situated in Thailand shall pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part, whether such income is paid within or outside Thailand. Section 38_64 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) Likewise, under the CRS rules as per Thailand's participation, Super Funds are excluded from the reporting requirement. Appendix A: Definition of Excluded Account The term Excluded Account means any of the following accounts: a. retirement or pension account that satisfies the following requirements: i. the account is subject to regulation as a personal retirement account or is part of a registered or regulated retirement or pension plan for the provision of retirement or pension benefits (including disability or death benefits); ii. the account is tax-favoured (i.e., contributions to the account that would otherwise be subject to tax are deductible or excluded from the gross income of the account holder or taxed at a reduced rate, or taxation of investment income from the account is deferred or taxed at a reduced rate); iii. information reporting is required to the tax authorities with respect to the account; iv. withdrawals are conditioned on reaching a specified retirement age, disability, or death, or penalties apply to withdrawals made before such specified events; and v. either (I) annual contributions are limited to THB 1,500,000 or less, or (ii) there is a maximum lifetime contribution limit to the account of THB 30,000,000 or less, in each case applying the rules set forth in Section 5.2.7 Account Aggregation and 5.2.8 Currency Translation Rule Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf (rd.go.th) Appendix A on Page 65 I have a done a LOT more research - I could give a lot more info to back up my opinions, but the wife and lunch beckons. I certainly am not saying I am 100% correct - but the level of errors, omissions and ambiguity in the TRD documents, is the worst/most ever in my experience - and I have studied/read a lot of complicated Govt and Legal documents. This is going to be a clusterpharrk of extreme proportions IMO unless TRD and/or Thai Govt make some rational decisions and publicly state them. Avoiding TRD for a few years is definitely my strategy - as long as reasonable self assessments have been done - and all records kept, just in case TRD asks for an explanation.

👍 😉

Withdrawals from Super are not taxable in Australia once you are 60+, because they are classified as savings, not salary or earnings or profits (like money in the bank) - and they have already been taxed - at a very attractive rate, but they have been taxed. For most retired Expats with a Super Fund, that money was saved up from many years of working and it is not taxable income in Thailand - period. (I will talk about annual growth 'earnings' below). My Super Fund has provided a 'document of proof' stating what my Super balance was as of 31 December 2023 - and that money is not taxable in Thailand. Likewise, I have not and will not be making additional contributions - so that balance will only decrease going forward. Plus I have previously contributed into my Super Funds large amounts of money - such as from House and Car sales etc. - which have already been fully taxed and are absolutely classified as savings - even when I was only 55 and withdrew some funds. What is taxable (and is taxed) in Australia, is the annual 'growth' in your share of the mutual fund - and they are taxed at 15% across the board (Super Fund pays direct to ATO). However, someone who has reached retirement age (67) and does fully retire, can 'convert' part/all of their account balance into a 'Pension Payment Account' and that account balance annual growth is not taxed - but it is counted somewhat by ATO/CLink as 'taxable income'. What is potentially taxable in Thailand, just like savings in a bank, is the annual 'growth' in a Super account (less the 15% already taxed in Australia). But currently, that is only potentially taxable in Thailand if that 'growth money' is remitted into Thailand. Starting Jan 1 2024 growth is potentially taxable as a percentage of the Super account's balance if any is brought into Thailand. If someone 'earned' 10% growth (say $50K) then 10% of the money remitted in any year could be considered taxable (minus the 15% taxes already applied by Australia). But again, that is potentially taxable and I am not convinced that it is taxable. Under a worldwide system of taxation, that whole amount of $50K could be taxable in Thailand - whether it is remitted or not - less the 15% already applied in Australia. Prove that amount of tax has been paid? No Chance. The Super Fund cannot detail exactly how much tax was paid by them for your account - it is done across the whole fund - not on an account by account basis. I have tried since November last year and all I have got so far is an official letter stating exactly what my Super account balance was on 31 Dec 2024 and how much is the annual tax rate that they pay to ATO on all accounts growth. Plus I asked the ATO and they will not comply - no chance (otherwise millions would ask 'how much of my tax paid was from x-month to y-month). So good luck under a worldwide system 'proving' that you already paid x dollars tax on your Super Fund growth from Jan 1 to Dec 31 in any given year, especially when the Aust tax year is July to June. Given I am already taxed and my Super Fund withdrawals are all not taxable in Australia, I think you can deduce where the money that I will be gifting to my Wife has and will come from going forward 😉

Watch De Sosa's first and upcoming movie and then tell me that voter fraud in certain States did not occur. How much we do not know - but you confuse valid or 'innocence' with the lack of guilty verdict. No one in Court is found innocent - they are found guilty or not guilty - they are not found innocent. Not one Court case challenging the election results was dismissed because the Court ruled that the election was 'valid'. They were all dismissed, or held over, because there was not enough evidence to prove election fraud on a scale that could have affected the outcome in any State. And that is because how do you prove 100,000+ individual votes were a fraud - that is impossible unless you match every vote with a how a person voted - and obviously who voted for who is not recorded. Even those charged and convicted of election fraud did not result in a proven case of who the fraud votes were for, unless the person admitted what they did.

Credit: NBC News 2024-09-10 No need to read any further - worse than CNN in their <removed> behaviours. Saw Trump's tweet - looking forward to his Administration charging and arresting those Democrats engaged in election interference and I hope they are given lengthy jail sentences. No more nice guy politics from GOP - they are going to do the same as the Dems have been doing - use the Justice system - but legally and correctly. Dems have opened a can of worms by weaponising the DOJ Federally, and by the AGs in rabid <removed> States too. The blow back is going to be wonderful to watch - and that is the number one reason they are desperate for Trump not to be POTUS again. The Dems made a new Law in 2022 so that Trump could be sued over the false allegations of a rape over 30 years ago, and they deliberately created it only to last until 2023 - what a joke. I think some of the people involved in that debacle will be investigated very very closely by the Trump administration. Those 'trumped' up charges in NY about business fraud were a total joke - every business overstates their asset value - and even if true it is only a minor misdemeanour at best - charging Trump with a Felony was deliberate election interference in an attempt to make him ineligible to run for POTUS again. I am certain those involved will be investigated and charged.

Great advice - very similar to my plans - and I hope they work for every one who does it. However, I would say definitely send money to yourself and spend it (aside from the Visa deposit) such that it totals under the allowances and exemptions that a couple would have in a joint tax return - therefore no tax return needed IMO. My wife's part of my tax return calculations does not include the gift money - it is not declared if it is a valid gift. To be valid the wife must not transfer money to me or give it to me, but IMO it is OK if she is pays for most things. My Wife will be paying all the main stuff and I will be 'chipping in' by also sending to myself some and taking it out and spending it. We have bought a house in her name and that was a gift, we have bought a car in her name and that was a gift, when we buy another car in a year or two, that will be a gift. Any additional money giving as a gift is her money to spend as she wants.

I think you are right but as it looks here it was sudden and extreme. And yet in terms of USD to AUD it was not as bad. And even more the AUD to BAHT also crashed And check it out over 5 years – quicker drop than the Covid19

I am not dead, And my mates (2) called Bob back in Australia are not dead either 😁 Or so I think anyway 😉

Ah ha - a different crowd to what I was expecting. They are all good blokes - most of them. Same as the ones doing mining work in the outback. By bad.

If you say so - met them in bars in Pattaya ?? Asking for a friend.

Surely not no one - my wife is for a start - but clearly not you and all your Pommy mates.

Clearly there was a quick and large drop in the value of the USD that triggered the drop in the value of the USD against most currencies (but not all). But the question remains, why? Look at the long term comparisons over 12 mths and 5, 10, 25 years. The recent drop was extremely fast and extremely quick - bigger than during Covid - why?? Something happened that we do not know about - that is what I would like to know.

This reminds me of that fellow idiot that was arrested in Japan and fines and deported. IMO Thailand should take the same approach and take a few million baht from the idiot and then deport and blacklist.

Me too - love the Poms. They are always such nice calm and non-complaining people.

Agree 100%. Plus I have read that a retired Expat in The Philippines does not have to report to the Police every 90 days and does not have to re-apply for a new Visa (Extension to Stay) every 12 months, and can leave and re-enter the country and the Visa remains active. It seems like The Philippines is very much like Australia was to my Thai Wife when she moved there for a few years - including she had all the legal rights and privileges of being an Australian Resident after 2 years. Plan B for us is to move there if this tax thing goes sideways, and just visit Thailand for less than 180 days each year. The very thought of paying a large amount of income tax to Thailand (if they do want to tax my Pension and Super payments) in return for nothing and with all the same Immigration Police impositions over my personal life, makes me extremely angry. I pay more in VAT than the majority of Thais pay all taxes - by a long way - very annoying. If I was not married to a lovely Thai lady I would have already left. Right now, if time travel took me back 12 years and I knew about all the khrapp like this tax stuff, my decision would be The Philippines and not Thailand. If you know Aussies well, we always put sheite on each other when we screw up - I have been copping a bit ever since this tax rule was announced. Coulda Shoulda Woulda.

You, and many others, are IMO reading it wrong. Look more closely at the words, and then read my other post in the Aussie section. https://aseannow.com/topic/1334092-australian-aged-pension-income-taxes-in-thailand/ Plus check out the tax expert's statement in the below video (38 min). https://youtu.be/K-2sAgFNgVE?t=2297 I am not demanding you agree with me/us, all I am asking is that you agree I could be right or wrong (and vica versa). Unless TRD provides a specific statement that the Aust Age Pension is taxable income, then it is a matter of opinion. Besides the tax expert in the video above, I have seen other opinions saying it is not taxable - but I have also seen others saying it is taxable. IMO the reason for that (in the absence of any TRD statement) is because the Clause is very ambiguous. As per my post in the Aussie Home Forum, other DTAs have been written, or re-written, with clear and unambiguous language - and they all state clearly that a Government Pension paid by one country is not taxable by the other - unless the person is both a tax resident and a citizen of the other country. That last point means a Thai citizen who lives in Australia for an extended period and qualifies for and gets the Aust Pension and then moves back to Thailand and gets 'portability', is liable to pay income taxes to Thailand on the Aust Pension payments.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

You are correct - but you are also wrong. Firstly I never said that 'the US cannot monitor a US credit card usage overseas'. I was referring to the TRD not being able to check/trace US bank records. They can get the BOT records from each local Bank, but they cannot (yet?) get the bank records from US Banks. All of what you said is correct regarding money exchanges between country, but wrong about what the TRD can use to track/check money transfers between Thai/USA. It is the CRS system that Thai TRD can use to track/trace financial transactions for the purposes of tax evasion. The USA is not a member of the CRS, because they went their own way in 2015 and started their own Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). That is used by USA only for their own tax evasion purposes - because as you might know all US citizens must pay income taxes to USA whether they live in USA or not. TRD has no immediate access to FATCA data held by USA Banks, unlike the bank records that they can get (Raw data) using the CRS system.