TroubleandGrumpy

Yes it is and I had the same reaction - especially with people on bikes flying along on the 'wrong side'. The reason is also very common - police do not patrol the roads and pull over those who break the laws.

** Personalisation removed, comment on the post, not the poster, please. That 'small change' was the mechanism that meant Thai RD did not have to pursue overseas income - soemthing both they and the wealthy using that system were more than happy to allow to continue for over 30 years. That 'small change' was the reason why the Thai RD ignored the fact that Expats were bringing money into the country that 'might' be income, as they would of course do what the wealthy Thais did - keep it for 12 months and then remit it. And how would they prove otherwise. That 'small change' now means the Thai RD has to put in place new systems and processes to identify what money is 'foreign income' and against which they have to impose income taxes. And they are under pressure by the PM to bring in more money - the economy is broke. That 'small change' has caused more concerns amongst Expats that anything I have seen before. NMot because of its intentions, but because of how it might be implemented and how it will (or not) directly effect Expats.

Very true mate - they have a history of both shooting from the hip and hitting their own feet 🙂 Sometimes, though, they eventually get it right - until then I am going to use every angle and excuse to stay out of their sights.

IMO the Thai Govt will do something similar to what the Malaysian Govt did when they introduced this can or worms called taxing Foreign Sourced Income (FSI) - and I hope they follow their lead about implementation for private persons. 1. Malaysia implemented basically the same system in 2021, but delayed the start for personal taxpayers until 2025. 2. Malaysia decided that it was 'wrong' to tax retired/married Expats living in Malaysia who are not working and bringing money into Malaysia from overseas: Are there any conditions for resident individuals to qualify for the FSI exemption? Qualifying FSI is exempt from tax provided the income has been subjected to tax in the country of origin. FSI received from individuals is regarded as having been subject to tax in the country of origin if: a) Income tax or withholding tax on the FSI has been paid or is payable; or b) Tax is not imposed in the country of origin because of: i) The taxation system of the origin country ii) The FSI of the individual falling below the taxable threshold in the country of origin iii) Income that is given an exemption through a tax incentive iv) In the case of foreign dividend income, it has been subject to underlying tax v) Foreign dividend income that is paid from underlying profits arising from operating profits It is my understanding that the application of income taxes under this new 'world income system' is not about taxing individual retired Expats living in any country who are bringing into that country their Pensions or Savings. It is about stopping companies and wealthy individuals who organise for their incomes to be received in another country/ies and thereby avoid paying income taxes - and others that use that system to basically money launder. On top of that new arrangement, in Thailand they had a system that allowed income to be 'salted' for 12+ months in another country, and when then remitted back into Thailand was not subjected to income taxes. Complicated, but I am confident that they will get this all sorted - eventually. IMO, until they get this sorted, it is best to not get involved with the Thai RD at all.

No - not at all IMO - you dont have to file a tax return unless you have to pay income tax. But if you feel the need to do so, and are happy to let Thai RD decide what you have to pay, then go right ahead. Just remember, they will then want a tax return done every year going forward. If you think you should file, then I suggest you speak to a Thai tax expert/consultant/accountant to make sure, and not take as given what anyone states here on AN who is not a Thailand tax expert/consultant/accountant - including myself.

Mike - you are just being argumentative and obtuse. Just for starters I know a lot more about those organisations and what they do - they dont give out banking transactions easily to any overseas tax departments. And I wont waste any more time, other than to copy the exact words used in that left-wing rag about Snowden's illegal release of information:- This article is more than 10 years old Australia's surveillance agency offered to share information collected about ordinary Australian citizens with its major intelligence partners, according to a secret 2008 document leaked by the US whistleblower Edward Snowden. The document shows the partners discussing whether or not to share "medical, legal or religious information", and increases concern that the agency could be operating outside its legal mandate, according to the human rights lawyer Geoffrey Robertson QC. The Australian intelligence agency, then known as the Defence Signals Directorate (DSD), indicated it could share bulk material without some of the privacy restraints imposed by other countries, such as Canada. "DSD can share bulk, unselected, unminimised metadata as long as there is no intent to target an Australian national," notes from an intelligence conference say. "Unintentional collection is not viewed as a significant issue." The agency acknowledged that more substantial interrogation of the material would, however, require a warrant.

Yes and No. It is not at all 'rampant and easy' as some people are suggesting. I can only speak on this to Australia - but there it is strictly controlled and monitored, especially to a another country. Privacy Policy - Australian Banking Association (ausbanking.org.au) OAIC Privacy Policy | RBA

They cannot exchange information as easily as you imply - laws relating to privacy may not be 'strong' here in Thailand, but they are very much both strong and enforced in countries like Australia. What you say applies in Thailand, but not so much in other countries - they cannot and will not easily give personal information out to another country.

Within that same document is a Caluse which clearly states all foreigners leaving Thailand must have a tax clearance. And there are many other things that are either not applied, are 'over-ruled' by another section, or are just ignored by Thai RD. There is a big difference between the Revenue Code and reality - same for all Government rules and regs.

Yes indeed - a move to global taxation by Thailand will be a disaster for all Expats. Under that arrangement it will be very hard if not impossible to avoid paying income taxes in Thailand.

Lets agree to disagree about what technically and legally is a resident and a tax resident and a Resident. Hacing residence - as per a residence certificate - is not a Resident. Staying in Thailand 180+ days a year is only a term used to 'claim' their income for tax purposes. Hopefully, the Thai RD will provide clarification at some point this year.

Fair enough - lets respectfully agree to disagree. One point - the ATO will not and cannot provide financial details of Aust Citizens to another country - without an Aust Court order. The banks can but only with due authority and approval under the rules/regulations.

We can agree to disagree on that. We certainly fit the definition, but the issue is does that mean we have to pay income taxes. A tourist does not have to pay income taxes in any country (I am aware of) no matter how long they net stay in the country over a year.

True - but remember - a tourist can stay in Thailand as long as he/she wants - they are legally not subject to income taxes - unless they earn money while here. Not easy to do that for sure, but with a 90 days on arrival, do that 3 times over any year (first one in Nov/Dec previous year) and you hit the 180 days. The point is that tourists do not pay income taxes - and IMO we are just long-term tourists legally. Sure that may not work out in a Thai Court - but it is an issue not previosuly covered by a Thai Court.

I am no tax expert but I know a couple, and although this 'new rule' does muddy things up, I am absolutely certain an Expat does not have to lodge a tax return unless they have to pay income taxes. What we/you should do though is document all the reasons why you made that decision in writing - every reason and include every amount - from money remitted, exempted under DTA, allowances, deductions, etc etc etc. I have a spreadsheet and I have used that to document that my Pension is not taxable (DTA) and I calculated the small amount of interest I earned in my retirement savings when calculated as a percentage of the fund money I also remitted into Thailand. I then put that as taxable income (when remitted) and it is far less that the allowances and deductions that my Thai Wife and I have - and of course we file a joint return so we both get those allowances and deductions. But the fact is that even if I was single the allowances just for me alone, are well over the small amount of taxable income in Thailand. I also plan to have statements from all my financial accounts/sources, that details everything over the year - from Jan 1 to Dec 31 - and I will keep those on file each year too. And yes, I am also absolutely certain that it is not a matter of documenting everything in a tax return and letting the Tha RD decide if you are correct or not. If you calculate you have no income taxes to pay, they do not want you to lodge a tax return - it is a self assessed system. But as I have said many times - be aware that if you deliberately avoid paying income taxes the Thai RD can tear you a new one. Keep all your records and document everythying and keep it just in case. You never know when/if the Thai RD will send you a request to explain why you have not paid any income taxes for the past X years - they will know exactly how much you remitted into the country. That was a vewry serious concenr of mine early doors - but I now do not beliueve that will happen unless the amount of remittances totals a large amount in one year (maybe 5 or 10 million baht - who knows).

How it works in most countries is that being a tax resident is completely different from being a resident for purposes of social welfare and other Gover benefits, which is again completely different from being a Citizen. As a Citizen of Aust (and most countries) it does not take a lot to still be a tax resident when you are staying in other countries, no matter the length of time. You can be a tax resident of several countries - but the one that has 'precedent' is the one where you have most 'legal and social and financial' involvement - which for most Expats in Thailand who keep their money in their home country and also keep in contact with family/friuends there, means their home country would 'win' if the matter went to a Court - especially in their home country - especially if they are paying taxes (even if zero or very small) in their home country. TH will have a great deal of trouble proving they have a greater involvement in my life - when technically and legally I am just a tourist here and could be made to leave at any time. Sure I am a tax resident after 180 days - but I am still a tax resident in Aust - and good luck Thailand trying to convince Aust ATO (their IRS) and CLink (Social Werlfare) and Politicians to pay over part of their age pension money sent to all ther Expats in Thailand, to the Thai Revenue Department in the form of income taxes. I heard there are about 30K Aussie Expats in Thailand and many of them are on the Pension - that is a big chunck of Australian tacxpayers money going to the Thai Govt. Two chances of that being alloowed - none and buckleys. IMO the same situation applies to most retired/married Expats recieving a Pension from their home country.

When you leave the country you present your Passpoert at Immigration - they know. If you change address you are required to complete a TM30 - and keep it in your Passport. Yes indeed - 12 months 'at the grace of the Thai Immigration Police' - you/we are not a Resident.

Thanks. But technically you are only allowed to stay in 90 days blocks. If you do not 'report' after 90 days (allowances either side), your 'permission to stay' in Thailand is not valid - and if Thai Immigration decided, the whole 12 months period could be revoked and you could be deported - but they are usualy very understanding and prefer that you just pay a fine (which goes into the team pool). The point being you have no legal right to stay 12 months - you must report every 90 days in order to get another 90 days - and then after 12 months you must apply to get another 12 months extension - which is broken down into 4 x 90 days permission to stay. We are all very far from being a Resident in Thailand. In anser to anyone thinking that we are tax residents because Thailand states that anyone staying in Thailand 180 days is a tax resident is irrelevent - especially under a DTA. In Cyprus it is 2 months to be a tax resident - good luck with that I say.

What say you about the 'families' killed by Hamas? You are OK with that?? Keep in mind, the killing of Hamas 'civilians' by IDF is not deliberate it is accidental - it was very deliberate by Hamas.

I hear you and that makes complete sense. But after decades of settlements and appeasements and deals - IMO time us up. If Israel does not force home their current advantage and destroy Hamas and its supporters (literally), IMO that means they do not want to actually and finally resolve the situation. IMO it means they want a constant state of conflict with the terrorists for decades and decades. IMO that is akin to invading Europe in WW2 only to withdraw after liberating France etc. - and allow the Naxis to rebuild and do it all again. The biggest mistake made in WW2 was not continuing further East and also destroying the communists in USSR. Many cyncial pundits claim that the powerful military industrial complex in USA decided behind the scenes that there was a lot more money to be made if 'conflict' continued for decades and decades to come. Perhaps Israel is also seeing the benefit in cotinuing the conflicts - thereby gaining even more ongoing financial and political support from USA. Either Israel destroys Hamas etc. now, or they will destroy a lot of their current 'goodwill'. They will have certainly lost my support and IMO a lot of others too.

All good points mate - I will give my opinion one by one - but nothing is certain and no one knows it all. Lodging Tax Returns - there is no penalty for not lodging a tax return when you have not taxes to pay. I read it somewhere in the Code that the penalties are onbly applicable when a person does not pay income taxes that were due. Technically, they could force everyone to lodge a return, but their current 'method of operation' is not to require a tax return to be completed when income taxes are not liable to be paid. DTAs are very expensive and costly to complete - I have been told that by two tax consultants/lawyers. Both those companies stated that they do those for companies a lot, and that the only persons they have ever lodged a tax return for were extremely wealthy Thais - nil Expats. Companies Incorporated in Thailand. Yes - companies legally based in Thailand have to pay income taxes on all monies earned globally - unless under DTAs the other Country can lay claim to income earned in their own country (USA is particularly strong on this). That same thing and associuated rules do not apply (as such) to non-juristic private persons.

I hear you about the 'moral rights' issue - that is not a legal matter. But you overlook or are not aware of one factor - the part in all DTAs about primary residence. Most Expats do not have 'residence' in Thailand - sure they are 'tax residents' but they do not have 'residence'. I did not quote the DTA, or provide many many others, because the post would have been even longer than it was already - but check this out:- 2. A person is not a resident of a Contracting State for the purposes of this Agreement if the person is liable to tax in that State in respect only of income from a source in that State. 3. Where by reason of the preceding provisions, an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, the status of the person shall be determined in accordance with the following rules, applied in the order in which they are set out: (a) the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State in which a permanent home is available to the person; (b) if a permanent home is available to the person in both Contracting States, or in neither of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State in which the person has an habitual abode; (c) if the person has an habitual abode in both Contracting States, or in neither of them, the person shall be deemed to be a resident solely of the Contracting State with which the person's personal and economic relations are the closer. I do not have a 'permanent home' in Thailand - I do have one in Australia. I have a lot more personal (family and friends) relations in Australia than in Thailand. My economic relations are 90% with Australia - that is where all my money and wills and any legal rights I have are held - I pay tax in Australia - and I am a Citizen of Australia. I do not earn any income in Thailand anmd neither does my wife - working in Thailand would be a big factor in my economic relations. I will always be closer to Australia personally and economically. One of the reasons becoming a 'resident' in Thailand (a legal resident) is not appealing to me, is because that would change me from a long term tourist into a resident, and I would therefore become subject to a lot more Thai legal and financial obligations (it is both a give and take matter). The fact that I would have to pay a large amount of money to apply and then wait many years - and I will probably not get approved (age) - also came into my decision of course. My wife on the other hand easily became an Aust Resident (small fee and online application - no interviews etc. - it was basically automatic. I am not and probably never will be a resident of Thailand and under the DTA I will pay no income taxes to Thailand - unless I earn income in Thailand.

As per my last response to another poster - winning means killing all Hamas and their supporters. Making a deal with the devil for hostages by giving up terrorists is not winning. Forcing Hamas to surrender or die and to give up the hostages is winning.

I am extremely sad to hear that - obviously that is why Hamas and its supporters took hostages after their atrocities. IMO any 'trade' of hostages for Hamas terrorists held in Israeli jails is a win for the terrorists and must not happen. If Israel does that trade, and then does not attack and kill all the terrorists in Gaza - they will have lost me forever. I will never support Hamas and like terrorists, but like many others I am sick of this crap about Israel year after year, decade after decade. Israel must either destroy them once and for all, or pharkk off out of my life forever - I will not give a pharrk anymore.

Israel is winning. Hamas and their terrorist supporters are losing. The IDF is killing more and more terrorists everyday - eventually they will kill a lot of them - hopefully all of them. The Hamas PR is failing - except with the woke liberals in UN and the ignorants in the West who believe their lies. War is War - and it was started by Hamas - and it will be finished by Israel.