WDSmart

Yes, those are contradictory statements when you put them like that with the "and" in between them. I think Hamas should immediately release the hostages, but (not "and"), I don't believe they will. I think they will use them as bargaining chips in any negotiated resolution.

Since neither @Nick Carter icp nor @Bkk Brian answered my question to my satisfaction, I'll answer it for them. The reason that whenever the suggestion that Israel is guilty of some kind of war crime is brought up, you immediately counter by saying Hamas is committing war crimes is because you believe the fact that Hamas committed/is committing war crimes justifies Israel from also committing war crimes. A good example is when several of you talk about Hamas using the Palestinian citizens as "human shields." That is probably true to some extent. But, just because someone or some group is using another group as 'human shields" doesn't give you the right to kill those "human shields" to get to the group you are targeting. You are excusing Israel of committing war crimes because Hamas did them first. It's the "He hit me first!" excuse.

I don't blame Israel for everything. I do blame Hamas for the Oct 7 terrorist attack and the taking of hostages. I do blame Israel for some things, mostly their indiscriminate bombing of northern Gaza and their continuing military actions, which put the Palestinian civilians at great risk.

I don't understand your post above, except the "You have a problem" accusation.

These are not contradictory statements. I am not in favor of Hamas and do think Hamas should abide by the ICJ's ruling, just as I believe Israel should. After reviewing my previous posts for about 10 minutes, I see you enclosed the "quote" above with *asterisks*, implying that it was not an actual quote of mine. I certainly didn't recall posting that, and I see now that I didn't. It is just your interpretation of what I've posted. So, no, that asterisked "quote" should be, *I oppose war crimes and support the ICJ's rulings, AND Hamas should NOT ignore the ICJ rulings and continue with their war crimes of holding hostages.*

I don't need a source to be leery of what the IDF says. After all, their posts aren't done for to let everyone know what's happening. They only post things that show them in the best light, or give them excuses to do what they do.

So, if IDF says so, that's what we should believe? The ICJ has determined in its interim ruling that "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention." https://time.com/6588931/icj-ruling-israel-genocidal-acts-gaza-south-africa/ The ICJ has access to far more information than you or I or any of these Forums have, so, at least for now, I will believe them over the statements of the IDF.

@Nick Carter icp, Thanks for your reply. It's not a reply to my question, but it's getting closer and closer to that.... - I do NOT disagree with the ICJ ruling that Hamas should release the hostages unconditionally. - I do NOT support EITHER of the war crimes of which Israel or Hamas are accused. - The case before the ICJ was a charge levied against Israel, not a charge levied against Hamas. - I do support the ICJ's interim ruling that Israel should immediately review its military actions to avoid killing civilians and return a report on how they will do that within a month. I also support the ICJ's interim ruling that Hamas should return the hostages unconditionally. To my knowledge, neither of these has been done.

Hamas continues to hold hostages. That is a war crime. I don't know if they are committing any other war crimes, but they might be.

- I do oppose war crimes. I am not using these allegations to "attack" Israel. I'm using these allegations to try to reveal to you that Israel is engaging in genocide/war crimes. - Yes, I'd like to see the war crimes stopped. I'd like to see the war stopped, whether the military actions are war crimes or not. - I do not side with Hamas in their taking of hostages. That is a war crime. I do not oppose Israel's attempts to free the hostages. I do oppose any of Israel's attempts if they are war crimes. I would like to see Israel attempt to free the hostages by negotiating an agreement with Hamas that includes a permanent cease-fire.

Yes, if you insist. You asked, "What's that got to do with Hamas, who are committing war crimes?" I'm not sure to what the "that" in your question above refers, but I'll assume it was my question to Nick Carter icp, which was "You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, '...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes.'?'" If that's the case, my answer is "nothing." My question to Nick Carter icp has nothing to do with Hamas committing war crimes. It has to do with why he brought up Hamas when I was asking him about Israel committing war crimes.

@Bkk Brian, I wasn't asking you, but I could. Anyway, I don't understand your question. Nick Carter, icp, and I were discussing the ICJ's investigation and litigation of the charges that Israel is committing genocide and war crimes.

I did know that, but that was not Doron Katz Asher was held at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis, and she reported that another ten hostages were being held there. Nasser Hospital is in Khan Younis. Now, let me ask you four things. When was Doron Katz Asher released? What date was the raid on Nasser Hospital? How many hostages did they find? How many Palestinian's died during that raid?

@Nick Carter icp, that does not answer my question. Since your answer is very important to me, I'll repeat it with some more information... You ended one of your recent posts above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? You hinted at the answer with your comment above, "The IDF /Israel are fighting a war against terrorists who are committing numerous war crimes on a daily basis." So, I ask again, What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

I was asking about the reported justification of THIS invasion and THIS hospital. Still, up to now, I have not seen any reposts stating that the IDF has found living or dead hostages in their current invasion of Nasser Hospital. You say that there are now reported to have been "100 terror suspects now arrested." At least you (IDF?) used the designation "suspects." I "suspect" that the IDF identifies all Palestinian men older than 12 as "terror suspects." How and who will determine if these "suspects" are indeed members or supporters of Hamas? If that's left up to the IDF, I "suspect" they will not remain "terror suspects" for very long. They will quickly become recognized as just "terrorists," and then I have no idea what the IDF will do to them.

They have been charged with war crimes/genocide by South Africa, and it has been presented before the ICJ. The ICJ did find "...at least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the [Genocide] Convention." And, "The judge also reminded the courtroom that the Jan. 26 decision is only an interim order, part of a wider, pending case that will likely not see a ruling for years. However, 'the catastrophic humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip is at serious risk of deteriorating further before the court renders its final judgment.'" ICJ's Ruling in the Israel-South Africa Case, Explained | TIME And, @Nick Carter icp, I'd like to ask you what I consider to be a very important question and one which is central to almost all of my posts on this subject. That question is: Why did you end your post above with the statement, "...whereas its Hamas who are quite clearly committing the war crimes."? What's that got to do with whether or not the IDF is guilty of committing war crimes?

The irony of you, of all people, saying that, is quite breathtaking …. I might have to open a bottle of Montepulciano d’Abruzzo earlier than usual After you've had a few glasses of your wine, let me know if you think you or many of the others who post on this Topic have any capacity at all to "see both sides."

This discussion (and topic) is about the impending invasion of Rafah, which just recently included, or was preceded by, an invasion of the Nassar Hospital. The IDF claimed they had "evidence" that Hamas was holding or had buried the bodies of hostages there. So far, I've not seen any report that the IDF has found any hostages, living or dead. All I've seen are reports that they have captured up to 16 men they believe to be Hamas militants. Oh, and I've read lots of reports on the chaos and deaths of civilians their invasion of the hospital has caused. Five patients die at Gaza’s Nasser hospital after Israeli raid cuts off power and leads to ‘deeply alarming’ scenes | CNN

"...being full of Hamas"? - does 3 or even 20 suspected Hamas fighters constitute "being full"? - who says the people captured were Hamas? The IDF? How would they know? Do they have a roster of those who are Hamas? And, if so, who made that up? - were these people conducting harmful actions there, or were they just hiding, or were they patients? - and where are all the hostages, alive or dead, that the IDF used as a justification for violating this, and all the other hospitals that the IDF has raided, "protected" status? Israel’s raid on a Khan Younis hospital shows nowhere in Gaza is safe - Vox

South Africa has accused Israel of genocide, which is a war crime. The ICJ has not issued its final ruling yet, and that won't come for a long time. The ICJ did order Israel to respond in writing as to how they would try to reduce the killing of civilians in Gaza. As far as I know, they have not done that yet, although I did read something about what the IDF said about how they will provide options for civilians to evacuate Rafah. I don't think this, however, satisfies the ICJ request. I am being truthful and honest. You just refuse to believe anything that doesn't support your beliefs.

I do hate both Hamas and Zionists. I do not hate Palestinians or Israelis. I hate what's happening here, and I hate it when others have so much bias that they can't see both sides in this horrible conflict are to blame, not just one.

I was using that "Hamas made me do it!" rhetorically. But that's exactly what the IDF is doing. Here's my bottom line on this subject... - On Oct 7, Hamas committed war crimes by killing, maiming, and raping civilians and taking hostages. - Hamas is still committing war crimes by not returning the hostages. These facts do not give Israel the right to also commit war crimes, which they have, IMO, done all during their destruction of northern Gaza, and now their invasion of Nasser Hospital, and soon by their planned ground invasion of Rafah. Israel is already charged with war crimes and genocide in a case being adjudicated by the ICJ, and the ICJ has ordered them to come up with a method to reduce the number of civilian casualties while they are working on the case. Israel is receiving more criticism and is losing the support of the UN and most of its allies, including the USA, because of their barbaric activities. They should sit down and engage with Hamas/Palestine to come up with a solution to all this that doesn't invoice killing hundreds of thousands more Palestinian civilians. That's my bottom line...

Yeah, It's like IDF is constantly saying, "Hamas made me do it!" I think most of Israel's former allies have had enough of that kind of excuse. (37) More than 60 people killed in Israeli strikes on Rafah, Palestine Red Crescent Society says (cnn.com)

Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid. Nasser hospital in 'catastrophic' condition as Israeli troops raid - BBC News

Same-same...