WDSmart

Well, all the above is valuable information I can use when evaluating your posts. Thanks! How long ago were you last there? And when you were there, were you able to talk with both Israelis and Palestinians to hear their side of the story of this now 200-year-old conflict? What did they (especially the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank) have to say? No, I reasoned that anyone with first-hand experience in the region of only one side of the conflict would most likely be biased. I did not expect you to have had experience with both sides, and I am still a little leery about just what kind of contact you had with Palestinians since you lean strongly toward the Israeli point of view. Did you really intermingle with "regular" Palestinians, or did you only observe them with a host of Israeli handlers around you? I've told you repeatedly I express my opinions. So, I express my opinion on what the Palestinian perspective must be, having had a portion of their land handed over to another group who then forcefully extended their claim on the land over the last 200 years. And, yes, I think I understand "their various social, political divides and groupings," at least enough to form my opinions on who the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups are on each side. I think I have each of their political agendas straight. At this time, both are being led by the right-wing, nationalistic, militant groups on each side: Hamas and Zionists. Hamas wants to drive all Israelis out of what they consider to be their country, Palestine, and the Zionists want to drive all of the Palestinians out of what they consider to be their country, Israel. There are some exceptions to the "all" expressed above, but for me, "all" means "enough that they no longer have any control over the country." I'll close by suggesting you watch some of what CNN (my main source of news) on this subject. If you do, you'll find they are slowly coming around to expressing more and more of the viewpoint I have been posting all along. Thanks again for your explanations. I will remember them when I read your posts on this subject.

So, are you saying you have been there (I assume Israel and not Gaza or the West Bank) and do speak Hebrew (I assume not Arabic)? If so, then there is indeed a certainty that you do "come to the table with a preset biased stance." How could you not? And if all that is true, I don't blame you for that, and I would understand your fierce objections to my posts, which do present the matter from what I believe is the perspective of the Palestinians. If you validate my assumptions expressed above, I will indeed view your posts in a different light. That doesn't mean I'll agree with them, but it does mean I'll understand better where your bias comes from.

I do claim my posts are based on my opinions. So are yours. I do not lie. I express my opinion. If my opinion does not match yours or your sources, you consider my opinions lies. I know you believe and trust what you post because you believe they are backed by "fact, reality and knowledge." The "fact, reality and knowledge" are not yours, they are the opinions of others. You are just repeating what you read. You have no real knowledge of what's going on over there any more than I do. We both just rely on someone else's accounts and opinions on what is happening. Again, it is just your arrogance that convinces you that only you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and, worse yet, lying.

I know you believe in your version of what is happening and why. I think your version of "facts" is from biased sources. I don't believe you "lie." I am not lying when I cite my interpretation of what is happening. I am telling you truthfully what I see and read from a variety of sources, including many you cite. I am only offering what I believe from my perspective. The difference between us is, IMO, you are so sure of your sources and perspective that you believe any other perspective comes from some dishonesty. Mine doesn't. Also, one big difference is that you, again, IMO, are excessively arrogant, and that's what fuels your belief that you and only your perspective can not only be true but can be presented with integrity.

I have never wanted to go to Israel, and I agree with your decision now not to go on a tour of Israel. I think things there will remain unsettled for the foreseeable future. That could be many years, and things might even get worse there.

I do remember you from another forum about a month or two ago on this same topic. What I mean by expressing my opinions "for years" is I haven't changed them. I still have the same ones I had years ago, before the Hamas attack on Oct 7. That action did not change my overall opinion on this crisis. Most of my opinions do have a basis "in fact," if by "in fact" you mean they are the same as someone else's opinion that has been expressed on some trusted medium by some trusted source. I am not out of touch with reality. Your problem is you only see one reality from a biased viewpoint and refuse to entertain any other perspective on reality. You think there's only one correct viewpoint of reality, and of course, that's yours. There are many viewpoints and perspectives on reality. You may not agree with them, but they are not all "wrong." They are just different from yours.

I see that characterization as a truism. It's just an unpleasant one to accept.

I express the same opinions I've had for years, and certainly the ones I've expressed on previous forums. And yes, I remember you from them. What I'm expressing are not nonsense. They are my opinions, and they are shared by a large number of people. You disagree with them, so you classify them as "nonsense." They are not. You're previous explanations of your opinions have been biased and I didn't agree with them then, and still don't.

I don't think @NextG was siding with the Zionists. From what I've read, he, like me, doesn't "side" with either Hamas or Zionists. He also doesn't place all the blame on only one side, like you do.

Well, the Palestinian population has decreased by about 25,000 since Oct 7, and I suspect that will continue for a while longer. We'll have to wait and see what it is after the Zionists have satisfied their Terrorist and Expulsion-fighting activities.

Yes! The genocide of the Aborigines by the Aussies and the genocide of the American Indians by what is now called the US (my home country) is EXACTLY what is happening now with the Zionist takeover of Palestine.

The area we are talking about was referred to as "Palestine" by even the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which set this whole catastrophe into motion.

I don't disagree that Gaza and The West Bank are not sovereign states, but I do disagree that it was "vacant land that Jordon and Egypt didn't want and they gave it away." These were part of Palestine, as was what is now called "Israel," and belong to the Palestinians, as does, IMO, all of what is now called "Israel."

Nick Carter is: Do you also then claim that Gaza and The West Bank are a sovereign state? If not, what are they?

I disagree, but that's just my opinion. I don't have any "inside" information as to what else Hamas wants to do other than regain control of Palestine. They may think that requires the elimination of all Jews there, but not all Jews everywhere. That, again, IMO, is what the Zionists want regarding Arab Muslims in what is now called Israel. As I have said, I favor a one-state solution where BOTH Jews and Muslims inhabit Palestine, but I don't think that is ever going to happen. It's going to be one or the other, and right now, it looks like it will be the Jews.

No, they don't espouse a genocidal agenda. That's what the Zionists want to do with the Palestinians. Hamas only wants to regain control of the land that used to be theirs - Palestine. I've repeatedly said that before the 1920s, both Arabs/Muslims and Hebrews/Jews lived in peace in Palestine. It wasn't until after that when the Hebrews/Jews were given the land by the West as their "homeland," that they moved to take it completely over and call it "Israel."

Gaza. and the West Bank are only portions of the former state of Palestine. Hamas, the Freedom Fighters and Terrorists. are fighting to recover the entire state, not just the two small portions they have been forced to live in.

I don't question it at all. They are "Freedom Fighters." They are fighting to retain the freedom of their country, Palestine, from the Zionists who are (successfully) taking it from them. And, yes like the Zionists, they often use terrorist tactics.

Brickleberry was speaking for me, too....

...and one more thing, Morch... These are FORUMS. According to Merriam-Webster, a forum is: "a place that has a long-standing tradition of being used for, is historically associated with, or has been dedicated by government act to the free exercise of the right to speech and public debate and assembly" That, to me, means they are places where you are welcome to express your opinions. You don't have to agree with my opinion. That's okay. You don't even have to explain why you disagree and debate is okay, but you shouldn't try to silence me with derogatory remarks. That won't work. (Unless you're @RImmer )

IMO, the Palestinians Nick Catrter icp was referring to were the Palestinians confined to the areas called Gaza and The West Bank.

Morch... Well, then, enjoy your comfortable stroll through the fog and your fantasies of believing you have ever explained to me how "ignorant and wrong" are things that I've posted. You've never done that. You've only declared they are with no explanation other than insults. I have always been the one doing the explaining, which, of course, has come to no avail. You may not agree with my explanations, but at least I give them. And, when I post comments, of course, how I define things is relevant. If you don't understand the terms I use or how I use them, you'll never be able to explain your objections to them. I think my last declaration in my last message was the most appropriate in "explaining" my take on the subject of this entire post. I believe a good analogy to the activities of the Zionists (right-wing Israelis) toward the Palestinians is the activities of the "settlers" (who later formed the USA, my home country) toward the American Indians. They moved forward on them, took their land, killed their people, committed merciless atrocities, and forced those who survived into reservations, which they guarded. During that time, any successful military action the settlers took against the Indians was called a "victory." Any successful military action the Indians took against the settlers was called a "massacre." I hope you can stick your head out of the fog long enough to understand what the terms I've used above mean with respect to the Hebrew/Jewish/Israeli/Zionist actions against the Arab/Muslim/Palestinian/Hamas.

Morch, Below is a list of related terms as I use them to help you navigate through my fog: CATEGORY: Term1 / Term2 RACE: Hebrew / Arab RELIGION: Jew / Muslim COUNTRY: Israel / Palestine CITIZENRY: Israeli / Palestinian MILITANT FACTION: Zionist / Hamas And, as a bonus, here is my overall view (like radar in the fog) of this entire situation, which is based on a previous takeover of an entire people and country like this: SITUATION: USA / American Indians

No, I don't see much of a difference between the two extreme, right-wing, nationalistic factions of either side: Hamas and Zionists. It seems like they are both in control of the military efforts at this time. I do see a difference in whose land that should be, and that is it should be Palestine, not Isreal. I'd like to see a one-state solution, one where the land is occupied by both sides equally. I'm not in favor of a two-state solution where the Palestinians are forced to live in two small areas, and the Israelis occupy the rest of the land. What I think will happen will be a one-state solution where there will ONLY be Jews, no Palestinians or Muslims at all, or if there are, they will not be given full rights as citizens.

I've had one for seven years now. Mine was easy to get. All I needed at the time (I think) was my passport and my Yellow Book (showing my residency).