Georgealbert

Thanks. Lithium batteries have posed some new risks, same as when LPG/NGV vehicles first appeared. Firefighting techniques have also developed and been adapted. The Luton car park fire final report, I am sure, will find many factors that lead to the reason why this fire grew and did such damage That report will be based on real facts, not on any preconceived agenda. Hopefully any lessons learnt will be acted on, but I doubt it. Safety requires extra costs, and profit is normally the first priority.

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

It is good to have a sensible, open debate, with someone who can express serious views. Just a shame we all have to suffer some of the others posters.

Very good question. The images and videos I have been able to find online, shows a fairly standard under the bonnet fire. There are a number of reasons that could cause such as fire, electrical, combustibles left under the bonnet, brake fluid leak. I do not believe it was ignition of the diesel that started the fire. Range Rover also has a history of vehicle recalls, as many manufacturers do. i would hope the investigators have access to better, clearer CCTV of the car entering the car park to the fire development. They will also have witness statements from the car owners and people in the area at the time. Also observations from the first attending fire crews. Yes diesel will produce a lot of black smoke, which is because of incomplete combustion. EV thermal runaway would often display a jet of flame. So without the full information, I would never attempt to make what would be a guess as to why this fire developed this way. But details from the Liverpool car park fire, I posted earlier, seems to offer many similarities. Like most major fires and accidents, it is a series of events that lead to the final outcome. Such as, what caused the car fire, the space it parked in, proximity of other cars, weather and wind condition, car park construction and fire resistance, height of car park, lack of sprinklers, english building regulations requirements, time to first fire intervention, availability of fire extinguishers, did anyone attempt to use an extinguisher or just video it, time of attendance of first fire crew, access to the car on fire, did the airport fire crew attend, Bedfordshire Fire Service operational procedures. So without full information it would be unprofessional to offer a guess of what went wrong, i will reserve final judgement to the full fire report is issued.

Really? What is your knowledge and experience?

You obviously do not know any firefighters then. All fire services have operational procedures, incident command and safety equipment to deal with incidents. EV fires offer some difficulties, not are nothing compared to the risks posed by many other hazards,

Sorry, but rather pointless post and offers zero into the thread.

5555, was a long time ago i got dirt putting a fire out, officers just tell others what to do. Fatal fire investigations always took more time and effort than the fire itself. It was a enjoyable career, hard work at times, would never make you rich but allows a comfortable retirement. Sometimes i think if i could do it again, next time I would just stay sat on a fire engine, forget promotion, as that just means far less stress and responsibility.

Yes agree, maybe a new term in general use. When I did my first courses at the UK Fire Service College, Moreton in Marsh, 80s, it was the term used for fire science.

No tetrahedron is not a big difference, just the basics. https://www.firesafe.org.uk/information-about-the-fire-triangletetrahedron-and-combustion/#:~:text=The fire triangle was changed,and a chemical chain reaction.

Sorry never keep a count. I tried to work out once, that i have been to over 10000 emergency incidents over my career. Minor fires, like cars, whatever fuel, are not something you remember. I have investigated 3 property fires which may have been caused by EVs, but each case was caused by other reasons. And before some of the people on this thread try to claim, no i was not told to find others causes. I deal with facts and not conspiracy theories. Now cheap electric scooters, are a different problem and issue, but that would be moving away from the original post of car park fire.

EV1 was 1996, lithium batteries have been use since the 1990s. NFCC (National Fire Chief. Council) have multi working group on all new risks and technologies, things are discussed with the motor industry. Guidelines, procedures and operational techniques are released to all fire services, through either SOPs, manuals or bulletins. So I probably have more knowledge and experience than most on the thread.

Interesting claim, can you supply a link to the research that shows this. The fire triangle/tetrahedron is a basic understanding of a fire and how to extinguish it. Below is a research paper that shows how the three traditional boundaries apply in a lithium battery fire. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8102908/#:~:text=The main conditions for ignition,O2%2C ignition and T ignition.

What was burning in this fire was the whole cars, fittings, seating, fuel, oil, brake fluid, etc. and some of the fittings, lighting, wall claddings, in the car park. Your posts continue to show you have no knowledge of how a fire develops. You have no understanding of heat development, smoke/fire gases, floshover, smoke explosions, defensive and offensive fire fighting techniques, passive and active fire safety/protection measure and incident command. You don’t want facts, because you seem to think your knowledge is superior. 5555 Do real research, not find a few video that fit your narrow view.

All fires produce hazardous gases, hence why fire service wear SCBA. Below is what you expect in smoke. Smoke and fire gases kill most people in fires.

The car park should have CCTV, which hopefully allow the investigators to establish the facts leading to the fire. UK fire and building regulations are based first on life safety, hence no sprinklers and only minimum 15 minutes fire protection in car parks of this height. It is expected that allows fire service intervention before the fire spreads, which failed this time and a few times before. Sprinklers, fire pumps, water supplies and their maintenance just adds costs, which developers don’t want. Many years ago, many large UK DIY stores and supermarkets burnt down. These had no sprinklers and often no fire insurance. Sprinklers only were installed after the companies could no longer continue to write off the costs and then they had to get insurance. The insurance companies then required sprinklers to reduce the risk of money losses. Balance between life safety (fire/building regs) and property protection (insurance), cost making the final decision.

The fires are difficult, not impossible. So are many fires. You cannot look at one picture, which you did above and then state how right you are. Knowledge comes from experience and research, not from finding a youtube view that meets you one sided agenda. This is from the Liverpool link I posted, research a few.

All fire services adapt procedures to deal with any new risks, vehicles, building, construction material, etc. Read this from my professional body, that is why I can use FIFireE after my name. https://www.ife.org.uk/ife-blog/tackling-fires-in-electric-vehicles- Information from experts, not someone in a youtube video that meets your own agenda.

I do not need to lie, i know what i am talking about, unlike mny. After looking through your posts, you need to google Dunning Kruger. Life is better if you get off that bar stool you seem to like to lecture from.

As a recent retired senior fire officer, with just under 40 years experience, and over 1000 fire investigations, it is nice to be lectured by a bar stool expert.

Another post, with no idea what they are talking about. Do you believe there were no car fires before EVs? You display you have zero knowledge of fire. Attached below is the report of the Liverpool car park fire, 2017, shows similar problems. https://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/media/1592/kings-dock-car-park-fire-sir.pdf Maybe best not post you own opinions, based on your own agenda, and keep to the facts.