old wanderer

I am really happy to see the Thai courts step up to the plate and throw out the sedition charges......

My best wishes and thoughts go with the leadership of the PAD.

A friend (uni educated) who was at the rally today took home the remnants of a "tear gas" grenade. She says it was modified to contain explosives and glass shards. That would explain the unusual casualties, considering that "tear gas" does not usually maim! As to why the police would do that I have no idea.

I had to fight with my girlfriend (engineering degree, runs her own business) today to not go, but she is set on going tomorrow to join her friend who is a nurse and came here from Chon Buri at her own expense, another who is a uni teacher in BKK, etc... Will continue to fight that battle tomorrow...

Several of my Thai colleagues at work (international corporation, many with overseas degrees and all perfect English) have friends there and are considering going.

Apparently some people are paid to go from the provinces - no doubt this is true. However there are a lot of people who hate the current (and past) government and their corruption who go at their own expense. Sure they may be fighting alongside the lesser of two evils - a non-elected government is "democracy"? i.e. Sondhi and his agenda - but they are certain what they are fighting against which I can only applaud them for.

(Just providing some more perspective... I have opinions I could add but that would be spitting in the fire so I tried to edit them all out)

My wife "Fought" in the 92 demonstrations, I have had a hard time keeping her in the USA when this started. She is extreemly anti Thaskin and his family. We know a group of about 20 successful Thai's in California that traveled together to protest and donate money a month ago. We donated as well.

While many on this board keep complaining about PAD and using the words "legitimate" government. Let me pose a question:

What "legitimate" government would issue diplomatic passports to fugitives from justice, refuse to enforce arrest warrents, and be under judicial review for corruption themselves????

Maybe sombody can explain this imbroglio too a poor simple person like me.

I feel sorry for the people that got injured.

However I also believe that the PAD protests have to end sometime (sooner rather then later), as they are clearly doing a lot of damage to Thailand, and they are quite clearly breaking the law.

They have been rallying at Government house for a long time now, forcing the new PM to retreat to Don Muaeng, they have been blocking airports, and now parliament. Meanwhile talks between the new government and the PAD were underway, maybe being disturbed by the recent arrest of two of the main PAD leaders, whose arrest is within the law.

I just hope it doesn't get any worse, but that might be wishfull thinking.

I am currently in Singapore and having a hel_l of a time with keeping my Thai wife in the USA.. she was in the middle of the fighting back in 92 when a lot of students got killed protesting....now she want to return to Bangkok to fight for her country....

The PPP will be disbanded at by the courts at the next scheduled hearing...They know it...hence the rush to get the constitution changed to protect themselves and protect Thaskin......

While you say the arrest was within the law.....it was a Martial Law proclamed by a convicted criminal (Samak) who is now going to jail, and it is likely the entire case will be thrown out at the 1st hearing.

Until we can drag a bunch of these thugs back into the Thai jails and have a system where the rich MUST obey the laws of the country, Thailand will never progress.

At present the courts have at long last started to act.

I for one hope the entire current corrupt government falls apart. I applaude the percerviernce of the PAD. They are not running to take over the country but to change it.

Very bad post.

You can stay in Singapore.

I might but my money and support will be going staight to PAD/ (Cause my wife has access to our bank account).

I feel sorry for the people that got injured.

However I also believe that the PAD protests have to end sometime (sooner rather then later), as they are clearly doing a lot of damage to Thailand, and they are quite clearly breaking the law.

They have been rallying at Government house for a long time now, forcing the new PM to retreat to Don Muaeng, they have been blocking airports, and now parliament. Meanwhile talks between the new government and the PAD were underway, maybe being disturbed by the recent arrest of two of the main PAD leaders, whose arrest is within the law.

I just hope it doesn't get any worse, but that might be wishfull thinking.

I am currently in Singapore and having a hel_l of a time with keeping my Thai wife in the USA.. she was in the middle of the fighting back in 92 when a lot of students got killed protesting....now she want to return to Bangkok to fight for her country....

The PPP will be disbanded at by the courts at the next scheduled hearing...They know it...hence the rush to get the constitution changed to protect themselves and protect Thaskin......

While you say the arrest was within the law.....it was a Martial Law proclamed by a convicted criminal (Samak) who is now going to jail, and it is likely the entire case will be thrown out at the 1st hearing.

Until we can drag a bunch of these thugs back into the Thai jails and have a system where the rich MUST obey the laws of the country, Thailand will never progress.

At present the courts have at long last started to act.

I for one hope the entire current corrupt government falls apart. I applaude the percerviernce of the PAD. They are not running to take over the country but to change it.

They were charged and they certainly should be arrested. The rest is up to the courts.

BUT the charges were made by Samuk, now sentenced to jail.

How the worm turns.

When the old school student executioner could not get the military to follow his martial law proclomation, he then resorted to this tactic.

Well this is indeed interesting......and yet no one has even mentioned the underlying reason for the sudden arrests.

1. The PPP wishes to change the constitution to remove most of the Monarchy power....(a long time goal of Thaskin)

2. Once they have assumed the center of power, amnesty is a sure bet for Thaskin et al.

3. A new court verdict is due to be announced against Taskin et al on Oct 21 or 22. This will result in a long jail sentence being handed down, plus more time for his wife.

The PPP is about to have another ruling to outlaw this party, so time to get buisness finished before another reshuffle.

This is corruption running completly out of control.

Until the leaders of the past/present corrupt government are placed in jail for their criminal acts (which is currently unknown in Thailand), there is little hope of stopping buisness as ususal. As with the Samak case, as well as the previous case where senteces where handed down to Pojiman and her relitives, and the famous case of the chocate gift to sweeten the attitude of the judiciary that resulted in some more relitives and supporters of the Thaskin clan to be placed immedatly in jail, the court has finally found out what it means to have some power.

I wish them all the best. It is time for a house cleaning.

MaizeFarmer would be your best local source? He is the master at this.

Just watched a news cast...The court has sentenced Samak to 3 years in jail....

I know he has 30 days to appeal, (which he will), but at least a crack in the delays for justice here in Thailand.

I would hope that Orient-Thai would be back operating soon. While the operations side was a bit messed up (flight) the maintenance side was pretty well organized.

I was there 2 years in a row doing some troubleshooting training and Aircraft Inspection Training. Some pretty nice people I met.

As far as the 747 go I think it is a mis print and should have been 737.

I have numerous Thai friends in the USA.....a group of 20 just returned from Bangkok, after having paid for their travel to Thailand to join the protest with PAD. They also made cash donations to PAD, and took along donations from others of us that did not have the time to travel with our friends. My wife bears the scars of the 92 protest, and donated to the PAD this time.

I see so much drivel on this forum about "THAI DEMOCRACY" I could puke....

The fact is that what is in place now has not worked in the past 60 years in Thailand, and maybe a new approach is needed. Nothing will last forever, and it if leads to abuses, it will be overthrown by popular demand, just as Pojaman and Thaskin were removed from their places of corruption.

For those that try to applaud the past, and support the current corrupt PPP(soon to be banned like Thai Rak Thai), consider even the leading democracy in the world (The USA) does not allow it's leader to be elected by the people, rather they go through the motions of expressing the preference they have, then when that vote is recorded, the politicians in each state appoint members to the electoral college, and they go to elect the president.

There is only precedent and tradition that binds them to vote in any given way. Some state have decided if a candidate wins by even a vote, then the entire state delegation "should" vote for the winner, other are proportional. In any case it guarantees the 2 major parties that never some rough maverick would ever be allowed to win. There is no law or penalty for not following the wishes of the electorate.

For years, England had it's House of Lords, by heredity , now changed somewhat, but still not elected by popular vote of the people.

Many other people follow different paths. I sometimes wonder here in the USA if I would not be much better if the vote was restricted to male land owners? That is how it started. We evolved, but now the majority are demanding the earnings of the people that really make a country prosper.

The only way to pour oil on these troubled waters is to bring Thaskin and his corrupt wife back to stand in front of the court, and have justice served. Only then will it start to temper the rampant corruption that is endemic in Thai culture.

After being married to my Thai wife for 8 years living in the USA and returning to Issan each year to be pestered about "When are you going to get married?" (Meaning Issan style). I finally decided to jump in.

I told my wife that if we were going to get married "Issan style" that we would set a bar for her family that nobody would be able to cross.

As was mentioned getting married is not just a simple ceremony, but a whole process.

1. We had a "PARTY" where I had trucks bring beer, whiskey, ice, cold drinks...etc along with buying some pigs, vegitables, hiring locals to prepare the food, rented a speaker stack from the local Wat that would make a rock band proud, and cranked up a bunck of Mullam music so it could be heard 3 villages away.....200-300 people were there.

2. Had 9 chanting monks bless us on the morning of the wedding.

3. Hired a 50 piece marching band to come with me when I came to the village to get my wife-to-be for the cerimony. Had about another 100 people sing and dance all the way with me wearing my traditional Thai cloths. (Jok ko ban etc).

4. Had 2 relatives carry the stacks of 100 baht notes on large silver trays, (sin sot) (because red is a luck color).

5. Brought all the gold and jewelry (along with the receipts....a must) to include in the sin sod.

6. Finally we got married, all the money and jewelry was counted in public, then went upstairs to have another blessing and look at this pigs head for fortune telling....

Now we were married....I just looked at the expense as having a great party that is still talked about years later each time we return home.

Interesting enough,,,,jealousy is a integral part of village life. When an aunt announced her daughter was engaged to a Japanese man, that was much more wealthy than myself, and was offering a sin sod greater than what I have given. we simply sent congratulations and asked for the exact date of the party and wedding so we could fly home and give her a wedding gift...

Never heard anymore about that daughter.

I have a similar problem as my wife is "Suay" and the whole village speaks Kui....Most of the time they stay in Thai, and I can follow along, but seems like when they want to tune me out, they go to Kui...

There is a very sad person in our village called "the crazy woman". She returned home 15 years ago announcing a marriage to her farang boyfriend. everything was made ready for the wedding in the village, but when she went to the train station to meet him (along with 20 other relatives) nobody got off the train...He was never heard from again, and she still takes medication to make her sleep for weeks on end....

Well I found out she speaks English with a British accent. So I hired her to be my official translator at a party we were having. She sat next to me, and translated everything everybody said, and when I wanted to jump into a Kui conversation she did it for me.

worked great, except she wanted to try and convince me I should be her husband. (Her mother gave her some more medication) Really a nice person, and somebody should feel a bit bad for what they caused to happen too her.

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest. In a few years I will retire with my Thai wife to Thailand. Currently I am a Senior Instructor for Boeing. Hence very familiar with aviation training.

I have been in Thailand conducting classes for both Orient Thai and Bangkok Airways. In Malaysia training for Transmile, and various Singapore organizations. I spent January this year in TinJin, China at the Aviation University teaching 4 rounds of classes.

In sort, in the past 12 years, I have been at a lot of airlines and MRO's on 6 continents as well as numerous classes in the USA.

It is always difficult for a new organization to establish a reputation and a student base. Just look at the the mess that Boeing caused with the branding of "Alteon" of the official training organization for Boeing.

People will make judgments based upon trying to bring similarities from other types of business. This is not the case in Aviation training. It takes some time and successes to establish a reputation. Looking at the "sour grapes" I see posted by some of the terminated instructors, one should remember that many pilots are made of egos and insecurity's. I personally have had many cases of pilot checks that failed to meet standards, go to my management, complaining, I was unfair, too demanding, unrealistic in the scenario's...etc. Fortunately we do record flight tracks in the simulators, and a simple print out resolves the problem. I have never been over-ruled, but have sure created some internet chatter about "avoid that instructor".

In my world there is simply no substitute for excellence.

I wish the school all the best, and once I move to Thailand I hope it is up and running, and I will certainly pay it a visit.

Ciao

Bob

MBA

FAA ATP MEL, SELS Rotocraft-Helicoper

FAA A&P

FCC GROL

It will not make any difference, since the education is already on such a low level that go or not go to college will have the same result.

The fact that these students think to contribute to solve the present crisis by not going to class is the perfect example of their stupidity to, along with the PAD, create a political paradox regarding democracy. (I presume that more than half of them will not understand the meaning of this sentence)

Learn to accept an outcome of democratic elections! The present government would also not be my choice, but since the majority of the voters gave the PPP the majority ??? (who knows) in parliament, the rest of the country has to accept that fact.

Don't create the "African way" here. The world is watching, so go home. Don't make Thailand the polical clown of the world.

Democratic you state......well then why is the election committee unanimously asking the courts to disband the PPP for voter fraud, and bar the senior members from politics for 5 years......????

ehhhh

Some democracy...

Why does the PPP has such disregard for even the Supreme Court of Thailand....Seems like when they found Pochiman guilty and set a 3 year jail term....they government should not have given her a diplomatic passport to travel the world?

I do believe US citizens are exempt from global taxation for any amount under $80,000....

Please do not make that mistake......Yes there is a ~$82,000 exemption available, BUT it is only available when you file your taxes....You must file and claim the exemption to get it.

I know of several people on this board that got snared big time assuming they did not have to file until past the threshold...WRONG....

2nd thing...THE US Treasury Department requires a citizen to file a decleration every June 30th of each foreign bank account they have if the aggregate of all accounts is in excess of $10,000. This is not the IRS.

Watching the live news conference from the Supreme Command, I am developing a healthy respect for Gen. Anupong. He is very calm and collected and patient, answers some tough questions, many repeated questions as well - without batting an eye.

He has repeated that he will stand with the people, and that he has no desire to take sides, and that there were no plans to call in military reinforcements.

edit-> brilliant... asked by a Thai reporter to explain in English, he calmly apologized and said that he did not want to be misinterpreted, and asked the reporter to kindly translate his earlier remarks - then a foreign reporter asked him a question in English, and he answered - again without batting an eye. His English is actually not bad at all.

I agree that he is making a good showing and i am also impressed, but they really should not be asking him questions in English at a Thai press conference. Although his English skills seem to be quite good.

Cheers, Rick

I'm impressed.....any "good" soldier know that only legal orders must be obeyed.

Just to have someone in power order you to go and shoot some of those people and make them disappear, is not a legal order.

To consider the order, put in in context with the current situation seems to be the right approach.

I disagree very much that taking ASTV off the air is the correct thing to do.

Some of this Samak order is way overboard....but then it was he who got the students massacred in 76 and refused to apologize because of what he saw the USA do.

NBT is anything but neutral. If it is, why has there not been ONE interview from a PAD supporter for over 100 days. Not one. NBT is glaringly biased. As is ASTV. ASTV is privately owned and subscription based, which allows it to be whatever it and its fans want it to be. NBT is paid by the people, it has no right to be taking sides. Which it so obviously is. Last night it had government officials being interviewed urging the red lot to come into Bangkok to support the government. Is this in anyway calming the fires? Just look at ThaiVisa, with its polar opposite views from each member. The passion and the conviction is so strong here, think what it must be like for people who are actually born and bred in this country,[/b] who are on the streets being roused by rhetoric and acts of aggression. If you lot can't see the woods for the trees, try to understand that it would be even harder for those actually participating. There is so much wrong, and there is too much righteousness. That is why I have said from the start that while I do not support PAD, the government must be the bigger man, must be the sensible party and step down. And we can calm the situation and then start rebuilding. This is not giving up, not giving in, it is simply sensible and necessary to stop further bloodshed. But then I suppose you won't agree with me, so we are all back to our righteous indignation. Sad times.

Jiang Mai:

I could not agree more. I and my wife are in the USA...We do have Thai TV....She was at the rally in 92 when so many students were killed and wounded....She hates the corruption in Thailand and especially Thaskin for what he and his government did to "her" Issan.

Tonight she has a bed role on the floor in front of ASTV....she is hanging on exactly everything that is happening to the protesters. She has asked me for over a month for money and a ticket so she can go back and join Sonthi in the protest.

We have been married since 96, and actually I am quite proud of her passion for politics. Here was a typical Issan farm girl, literally no education, that became the #1 woman in her village, runs several farms, and 1 business, and when we visit her "home" people and relatives come from miles around to listen to her advise and judgment.

Yes the emotions and passions do run high with people about this....and while we sit and discuss as the foreigner maybe we should pay a little attention to the words of the Thai national anthem.....it is certainly not a song of peace on tranquility.

I think you are the perfect person to ask this of. And I ask in all sincerity because I am trying to understand. Does she not know about the PAD proposal to limit democratically elected officals to be only 30% of the government? Does she know and not care? The popular belief is that PAD proposes this to keep Isan from electing corrupt candidates because they are not smart enough to know better. In 1992 what was she protesting for?

Yes she does indeed know....however, this principal has been seldom stated, and I do not put a lot of value on it. It does not seem to be a bedrock of the PAD.

However, I have listen to my wife stand up and lecture village people in 3 different languages about how stupid they are to sell the votes for 200 to 500 baht. She even had a big go-around with the pu yi ban, as he was the one bringing money. from what I could understand she told him if he did not quit it, she would buy everybody in the village and have him replaced...

(he is aware she has a lot more money than he does).

I do not see PAD as moving to take power, but both of applaud the getting rid of the corrupt people in government...(maybe not in my lifetime) but people like Thaskin MUST pay for the crimes they have committed, and I do see a change in the upper court system....the little courts have a long way too go.

NBT is anything but neutral. If it is, why has there not been ONE interview from a PAD supporter for over 100 days. Not one. NBT is glaringly biased. As is ASTV. ASTV is privately owned and subscription based, which allows it to be whatever it and its fans want it to be. NBT is paid by the people, it has no right to be taking sides. Which it so obviously is. Last night it had government officials being interviewed urging the red lot to come into Bangkok to support the government. Is this in anyway calming the fires? Just look at ThaiVisa, with its polar opposite views from each member. The passion and the conviction is so strong here, think what it must be like for people who are actually born and bred in this country,[/b] who are on the streets being roused by rhetoric and acts of aggression. If you lot can't see the woods for the trees, try to understand that it would be even harder for those actually participating. There is so much wrong, and there is too much righteousness. That is why I have said from the start that while I do not support PAD, the government must be the bigger man, must be the sensible party and step down. And we can calm the situation and then start rebuilding. This is not giving up, not giving in, it is simply sensible and necessary to stop further bloodshed. But then I suppose you won't agree with me, so we are all back to our righteous indignation. Sad times.

Jiang Mai:

I could not agree more. I and my wife are in the USA...We do have Thai TV....She was at the rally in 92 when so many students were killed and wounded....She hates the corruption in Thailand and especially Thaskin for what he and his government did to "her" Issan.

Tonight she has a bed role on the floor in front of ASTV....she is hanging on exactly everything that is happening to the protesters. She has asked me for over a month for money and a ticket so she can go back and join Sonthi in the protest.

We have been married since 96, and actually I am quite proud of her passion for politics. Here was a typical Issan farm girl, literally no education, that became the #1 woman in her village, runs several farms, and 1 business, and when we visit her "home" people and relatives come from miles around to listen to her advise and judgment.

Yes the emotions and passions do run high with people about this....and while we sit and discuss as the foreigner maybe we should pay a little attention to the words of the Thai national anthem.....it is certainly not a song of peace on tranquility.

And the EC and judiciary isn't corrupt???

Why would you ask a stupid question.....

Do you have any doubts that PPP bought votes......??? Is it against the law?

When I see a judge give back 2 million baht publicly, put the bearers in jail instantly, and ask for them to be brought back to court in 6 months when the contempt punishment is finished to be tired for corruption and possible 5 years in jail.

When I see a court sentence the puppet master Kunying Puchimon to 3 years in jail for trying to lie to the court, along with her secretary and brother-in-law.

When I see Thaskin forfeit 20 million baht in bail money because he know the game has changed and he will not bribe his way out of this situation...

Why should I think the EC or judiciary are corrupt.

Not sure if this has been reported yet. Doesn't look too good.

EXCELLENT MOVE

I suppose one reason I am so passionate about my support to getting rid of the current government, and before that thee government of Thaskin is, I saw 1st hand what his policies did in Issan. You gave a lot of people easy credit, based on how much land they owned. They went out bought new trucks, maybe a Mia Noi, a few invested in equipment to farm, but little thought was given to how to pay the money back.

What happened when they did not pay the money back? They lost their land and the government sold it to its cronies....

We bought some of this land our selves, rather than having it go to the government, and then allowed the families to keep farming it.

While a lot of people praised the government for giving them money, for a lot the full realization has yet to set in on what it truly cost them.

It was almost universal in all the villages outside Si Sa Ket for a payment of 200 to 500 baht per vote....This is not democracy.

The PM has failed to read Thai history, he will fall it is just a matter of time. A week at most. Now the RTA will have to sort all of this out on all sides.

PM out, charged

PAD go home , 6 arrested, charged

Thugs ( both sides) gathered up and re-educated

Tourist - go home for a month

Expats - live with it or jump a plane

Peace and then......

Hold new elections.

But before all that, just wait until tomorrow for a real show down.

Well my wife has put a sleeping mat out by her Thai TV, and it is tuned into ASTV, she says she will be there all night watching. I can hear her applauding and shouting sometimes.

She just came in and told me "they" (Samak) are trying to shut down ASTV.... 500 more people are going to the studios to help.

With a current govenmnet that has no respect for the Supreme Court or its rulings. Giving a diplomatic passport (actually 3 passports) to Thaskin and his family, refusing to ask for extradition, it is clear they have no respect for any law.

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.

Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.

A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.

Are we all blind,,,,or cannot it be seen clearly that when the court refused the 2 million baht bribe, put some of the shirt-tail relatives of Pochiman in jail, then sentenced her and a few more corrupt relives to 3 years in jail the tide was finally starting to turn. Thaskin was next, and since it was in front of the Supreme court, had he be found guilty, he would leave the court room for the jail house with no appeal. He understood this, and ran.

If Samak is allowed to continue he will change the laws, to where what were serious crimes, are no longer crimes, and it will be a further license to steal by those in power.

Is there any clarification on who would "appoint" the 70% of the Members of Parliament that would be "appointed" under the PAD plan?

They kinda lost my sympathy when they proposed doing away with democracy. Definitely a wish for minority rule.

kenk3z

I am not an English subject, but it would appear that the Government in England does this very thing.

You have the House of Lords....that are inherited, or appointed

Then you have the Commons that are elected by the citizens....

America founded democracy but limited the vote to land owning males...

as the voting block was widened, it slowly has become the have-nots reaching into the pockets of those that have some money.

So democracy can be defined as PAD is doing it, there is nothing sacrosanct about 1 vote for every person.

The above post "PPP won majority of the votes"....well so did Magumbee in Zimbabwe...(if you believe in corrupt elections).

Emergency may be lifted in a few days after problems solved: Samak

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said he made the decision with caution to announce the state of emergency and would try to end the problems in a few days.

He said the announcement was made after consulting officials concerned.

He said the emergency would be lifted after he solved the problems.

He said he would try to solve the problems as soon as possible.

He said the problems would be ended in a few days and Bangkok governor election candidates would later be allowed to launch their election campaigns.

-- The Nation 2008-09-02

Samak sounds almost as honest and patronizing as Magunbee our beloved "President" of Zimbabwe.

How could anyone doubt such sincerity.

What world have you been in? You say the PAD is peaceful? Your pathetic. They have more weapons than the police. When they BREAK into government buildings, Destroy government property, hold people hostage and people die, that is not peaceful. You should go back to your dreamland.

No my ignorant new comer friend...you are the one that is pathetic with your mis-information.

1. The PAD has used large numbers of people and old ladies to defeat the PPP

2. Break into Government buildings......they are public buildings....belonging to the people...

3. Nobody was detained or held hostage, all were free to leave.

4. People died because of paid holigans that were bought by the PPP

Get your facts straight!