Paagai

Given the number of Pizza and Burger threads on this forum you would have thought Americans were the only people here

Or maybe that just makes them the largest in terms of size/obesity

Yes I erred when I wrote 3 instead of 2. That is hardly a contradiction of the point to which it was attached, that young men were in jail because of a stupid crime; a crime that caused harm to both the deceased and to themselves.

You actually wrote:

It is also a tragedy that 3 young men will spend the rest of their lives in prison.

When the reality is only one will. That's a big contradiction from what you wrote!

The third person has not been arrested at this time because he has most likely fled to Burma. Doing a runner is standard in Thailand. What's your point aside from desperately trying to find a way to attack me and not the points I have made?

I'm not attacking you at all, in many ways I agree with some of your points regarding the status of hill tribe people etc. But, I don't believe they are at all applicable in the generalised way you are trying to make them in this case. Earlier you wrote:

Left out of this sad tale is some actual background on Awe Ye Ping.

Yes, you are right, I very much suspect Awe Ye Ping is the fall guy here, both at the hands of Thai justice and at the hands of his "friends". What is really "Left out of this sad tale is some actual background on" the elusive "Mr Jack" supposedly a poor destitute male prostitute now hiding in Burma. I think that "background" would shed a whole new light on the validity of your arguments.

You heard that only one is in jail? Where did you hear that? According to my source, Chatchai Taraskit the 2nd accused is still in custody in respect to the of holding Mr. Crisp's possessions. When were these charges dropped? The murder charge was dropped against him because Awe Ye Piang took full responsibility in the recent plea agreement. They were both looking at the death penalty had Mr. Piang not pleaded guilty. However, Chatchai is still in custody. Did you by happenchance see someone that resembled him when you went to a bar?

My understanding was Chatchai was sentenced early last year to two years, reduced to one year because of his guilty plea. I heard from an acquaintance he was recently released and had left Chiang Mai but can't verify that.

After what has happened he would be very unwise to be hanging around any bars here. But strange you should mention this, but as it happens I do see this one familiar looking face from time to time........

What's with the reference to predator? I do not recall labeling Mr. Crisp a predator. If so, please point out where I did so.

I was paraphraing your earlier comment:

Or, is the truth of the story that this was just another foreigner in Thailand taking advantage of destitute refugees that picked the boy who's psyche had reached the point of no return? Mr. Crisp chose to take advantage of vulnerable young men and he paid the price.

But my original point still stands - David Crisp wasn't the predator here.

I am accused of speculation. Ok. Unfortuantely, many of the comments made by those looking to rip me are based upon a number of sanitized newspaper articles and the word of mouth stories people have offered about the deceased. I'm sure the deceased was a wonderful man in their presence, but these people didn't know how he behaved once he was alone and out of their line of view do they?.

Do you? Or is this just more speculation?

:clap2: :clap2:

There were plea changes and two of the individuals are now in jail. The first interrogations took place under circumstances that would be unacceptable even to those calling for their execution. Yes one of the accused is on the run, while the other 2 are in prison. As soon as the third one is caught he will be sent to jail with the trial a mere formality.

You really know nothing at all about this do you? You seem to be altering the facts to try and suit your arguments.

First you said all three were in Jail, now you say it's only two, contradicting your own previous posts and glossing over the fact that one of the two in Jail (who I heard has now been released BTW) was not there on charges relating to the murder of David Crisp.

As to the last sentence above, just explain why you think the third guy hasn't been caught? Really! Maybe, because he doesn't fit the stereotype of "destitute hill tribe victim" you are trying to pin on him at all?

You are right about one thing though, there was a predator involved in this who it seems was the catalyst for the whole situation. That person most definitely was not David Crisp.

It is also a tragedy that 3 young men will spend the rest of their lives in prison.

With this one sentence GK utterly destroys the credibility of his own arguments. If you actually knew what you were talking about, rather than just going on a bleeding heart, poor hilltribe victim campaign with scant reagrd for the facts, you'd know that only one of them is in prison. The tragedy is he is likely another "victim" and scape goat for the other two.

David Crisp was a friend of mine. I also know something about the perpetrators - not something for this forum. One of them is about as far away from the picture GK is trying to paint as you can imagine.

There is a lot of this story that is untold and should remain so. If you have nothing better to do in your life than go on Internet Forums offering wild speculation then that's your problem But, in doing so please do not denigrate the memory of a good man.

Another article with different perspective here

If you want the human side....

Fortunately I'd already posted a comment here: Thread in Chiang Mai forum before reading this rubbish.

It never ceases to amaze me what people can invent and speculate about the story without knowing anything of the people involved on either side. And, don't underestimate the role that drug taking by the perpetrators (Yaa Baa) had to play in this story. I don't see they have anyone but themselves to blame for that.

David Crisp was a very talented young man who was highly respected in Chiang Mai's ex pat community and in his professional career. His sexuality and lifestyle was never a secret, neither was the good charity work he did supporting some of these hill tribe peoples. Some of the insinuations here are highly offensive both to his memory and his many friends and family.

It's good to see Andrew Drummond providing an update, though his article actually gives no new information other than the sentence, e.g. what went on at the trial, or even when it was held. He also states the murder was last year, when it was more than two years ago and "Awe Ye Piang" would now be 24, not 23 (OK I'm being pedantic). The rest is regurgitated quotes from when he was originally arrested. Would be more relevant to know what was said at the trial, both in mitigation and by the judge when passing sentence, but I guess that doesn't make for a good story.

Thai justice has done really well here. They've sentenced one of the perpetrators, who according to his statements, was only an accessory to the murder. Of course, the only people who actually KNOW what happened are the three suspects, so his account may well be a skin saving story. However, if we assume he is telling the truth, the main perpetrator, who allegedly slit David's throat, was never apprehended and was reportedly "hiding in Burma" :whistling: Meanwhile the second suspect who allegedly hit David over the head with a teak vase, had the murder charge dropped and was/is serving a short sentence for handling stolen property. You can hardly claim the above as a major victory for law and order.

I wonder how much effort the BIB are still putting into tracking down that elusive third man. As they know who he is it can't be that hard, surely? It's not like "Burma" or the Shan State is thousands of miles away indeed, there are even parts of Chiang Mai that seem like they are the Shan State

Not that I feel even remotely sorry for "Awe Ye Piang", even knowing (according to a recent inmate ), that he spends his time clanking around in leg irons on the top floor of Chiang Mai Jail (reserved for the real scumbags) but it does seem like he drew the short straw.......

Unfortunately I can't conclude this post as TV doesn't have a "flying pig" emoticon.

It's also on at THE PUB breakfast available I understand, the full blown version of which now includes black Pudding Sorry won't be there but thought it was worth a mention

Try SoupaSteak on Huay Keaw road near Kad Suan Kaew. They have several fish items, including salmon steaks on the menu, as well as regular fish specials. Very reasonable prices too.

It's in the block in front of Nakorping Condo, next door to Salsa Kitchen and opposite the Shell gas station. Now open from 5 p.m. I think.

There's a good but well hidden electronic components shop in Chang Puek area that might help. For certain stuff it has a much better selection than Amorn.

Driving North on Chang Puek Road take the soi on the left immediately before the Novotel/Tops Supermarket entrance. The Soi has a Chedi on the left hand side as you enter (and IIRC a bank on the near corner). Keep going past the Chedi and the store is on the left about 2/3 way down.

Heading away from Airport Plaza towards Sankamhaeng, just after you cross the river and opposite the Police HQ, there is a shop called Strong Man or Strong Arm - a police supplies shop. I don't know if they sell to "civilians" but you'd get a pair there I'd imagine.

Cheers,

Pikey.

IIRC another such shop is in the old city on Phra Pok Klao road, on the left just before Chang Puek gate going north. I believe Police here have to buy all their own equipment (including guns!) and it's quite freely available. Private security guards also carry them.

We had exactly this problem a few weeks back. Had a new PC purchased specifically for an unusual PCI card for an industrial application that only had XP drivers. Given the nature of our business we wouldn't countenance using non-licensed software and wanted a legit XP install. Whilst the new PC was well capable of running it, windows 7 just wasn't an option.

We contacted Microsoft for advice and they responded as follows: Go to an offical Microsoft distributor (they provided names of 3 or 4 in CM). Purchase windows 7 and ask for a second windows XP installation disc FOC. Once you have these send Microsoft the Windows 7 product code (IIRC we had to fax a copy of the product ID certificate). Microsoft then emailed us a "downgrade" activation code for use with windows XP. Result, after considerable messing around establishing the above, a newly purchased legitimate copy of windows XP.

Edinburgh Evening News - January 29, 2011

Thanks for the update.

I guess slow news is better than no news...... Already three months since the first date and just another delay.

There is a hairdressing supply shop in Thanin Market that sells them. From Chotanna Rd it's on The soi running in from 7-11 just across the next intersection on the right - but driving you'd have to go right round the one way system to get there.

Last week marked the second anniversary of the murder of a friend of mine, David Crisp, here in Chiang Mai. I wonder what his contribution to this discussion might have been......

I personally knew three other local people who have been murdered here, not to mention a few more high profile Farang deaths we all know about. I've lived in several places in the world, yet this is the only city I've had personal experience of people being murdered. Not trying to say Chiang Mai is unsafe, but it's not a perfect paradise either.

Some thing many visitors are not aware of are the very large number of illegal immigrants living here who aren't allowed to work so live by other means, and the very serious Yaabaa abuse problem in Chiang Mai. A potent cocktail

And when the wheel's do fall off the wagon, Thailand is not somewhere you will find any kind of justice apart from rough justice.

Back to the OP's subject......

I don't believe there is a clampdown as such. There are too separate issues:

1. Non alcohol sales between 2 and 5 p.m. is, I understand, and old law intended to prevent school kids coming out of school in the afternoon and drinking. There is another about not having a bar within 150M (or some similar distance) from a school. But TIT, the law is enforced accordingly, more by big chains in my experience, than by small local places. And Thailand being the land of the "crackdown" occasionally they pick on a law and decide to enforce it, usually approaching a holiday when certain coffers are dry And, what a surprise, Many Thai-Chinese in authority here and guess who has an upcoming New Year celbration....... But Thailand is not alone, for example, it took the UK around 70 years to change a similar first world war law aimed at stopping munitions factory workers drinking

2. I believe there is a new law banning advertising of alcohol! That's led to the frantic covering up of branding materials by those who haven't paid the right tea money. It seems to be very inconsistent though, I see many local bars with those stand in the street signs advertising whiskey which were provided by their supplier, covering up the bottom part to leave only the name. But the bar next door carries on as normal, whatever. Chang are as ever industrious I've already seen bars with replacement signs advertising "Chang Water" :D

Hey ho, life goes on And what did happen to the regularly re-incarnated story about Loy Khro being moved to Chiang Mai Land, haven't heard a re-spin of that for a while? Maybe the current generation had different tastes to his Uncle?

This week marked the second anniversary since the brutal murder of David Crisp. Gone but not forgotten, except maybe by justice.....

As someone who's lived in Italy, I think there is little here that comes close to real Italian pizza. The only consistently good one I've tried is Rustica in Punna Place of Nimmanheminda (where the Power House Gym is). Little place that only does Pizza (and recently some German sausage), nice touch is the section in the menu destructing many of the myths about Pizza. They do a Porcini and Garlic which is to die for. I only hope it survives as never see too many people there.

And they manage that in a conventional (Non wood) oven too.

IMHO the Dukes is about as far from Italian Pizza as Italy is from America! Not to say it's bad, just not Italian and not for me.

Koh Lanta I didn't rate, maybe 5 out of 10, but haven't been in ages. Also, not bad is Girasole. Tried Stefano's once a few years back - never been back - nuff said. Also, the now defunct place who's name escapes me on the river near the superhighway never impressed either, though some of the regular food was good.

I liked Guitarman's pizza but can't comment further without declaring an interest

I manage to have fun along Loi Kroh without buying anyone.

Also keep in mind that there are many, MANY different pubs and restaurants along that road (which stretches all the way to the river). So especially JDinasia and Paagai's posts made no sense whatsoever. ("Perhaps yet another reason to avoid Loi Kroh")

yeah Loy Kroh may have "MANY different pubs and restaurants" but they are full of Farangs. Chiang Mai has so many local places that are way more fun where the tourists don't go. And if you want to see a fight amongst Thai's where the furniture is used as a substitute for boxing gloves they ain't hard to find either

Now I think of it, these days the only time I ever visit Loy Kroh is to go to Marina bar or Guitar Man - what more can I say?

Perhaps yet another reason to avoid Loi Kroh

Can anyone who's dealt with this problem recommend a good lawyer who understands the situation? Ideally, they would be Thai and also be able to assist you at a late hour when these guys usually seem to arrive. Thanks.

Form what I've seen "good" lawyers don't want to get too involved other than making sure you have the right licences. What you actually need is a "BAD" lawyer who has better mafia connections than these out of town gangsters...

Whilst this thread sure represents the depressing side of Thailand, sometimes there is something to smile about. I believe these thugs recently tried to raid a certain late night karaoke, without realising who was behind it. It did not go well for them Ouch! But it was nice of them to make such a large "donation" from their ill gotten gains to the local Wat!

A lot depends on the police district and nature of the neighbourhood. e.g. are there already many such venues around or is this a sole instance? If it's a small bar who don't pay the police very much the Police may be helpful. In which case get your self a red box and provide the guy who collects the money a generous "whisky allowance" That might help keep the volume down and have it stop at midnight.

As to being consulted by the city... unless it's a large venue I doubt they ever asked the city or have a licence for anything

This is not a new development. If you do a search this has been going on for some time in Thailand. As I say this most all the bars and restaurants in Chiang Mai have the proper music license and are posted along with their other licenses. You do not hear of this happening in town any more for this reason. So it sounds as if the establishments outside of town have made them self easy pickens.

..WRONG!..just last week two establishments in Loi Kroh Road were fined 60,000 and 30,000 respectively for this. Computers seized etc. (I heard this direct from one of the chaps). 3 years ago here a small FM Radio Station was fined in the order of 120,000.

Correct!!! Reread my statement I said MOST.. You all ways have some dumb arsh new owner that thinks he is above the law and knows it all. That 10,000 baht tea money would of paid his license for two years. All bars and restaurants that are involved with owners of long time standing. have these license and are not bothered.

Actually, not correct at all! I know several established businesses who's owners are not "dumb arsh" and who have proper licences that have still been hit very recently.

Having proper licences does not mean you can illegally copy music onto CDs or Memory sticks. That's their way around it. And if you don't have any such illicit items in the venue yourself they'll soon find one on your customers, or simply produce some "incriminating evidence" from thin air.

Nastiest bunch of the lot own a few obscure old Thai songs that aren't covered by any of the general licences, and which will magically appear on your computer when they visit.....

The scam then works by intimidation, taking you to the police station and threatening you with a night in Jail if you don't cede to their outrageous demands. CCTV to catch them planting evidence and ID them (they always come mob handed), plus insisting on taking it to court may win through IF you have all the licences - but TIT and they are mafia....

Pagaii...The center I mentioned on Nimmanheiman and Huey Khaew is on land owned by Oishi Company and it is on hold...the one you mention appears to be very close to that one.

I think the location you are talking about is at "A" on the attached? Next to Kad Rinkham? The location I'm talking about is at "B" and the new conference centre at "C".

The site may be even bigger if they demolish a couple of very run down condos that are in one corner.