Paagai

Reminder: Lavender Lanna is a ThaiVisa sponsor.

My vote still goes to the Red Lion Best Gay bar in town Well, Kevin's said before you should never under estimate the power of the Pink Pound!

We'd better post quickly as I suspect this thread may not be around for long before following another one on the same subject: Another Gay Scandal Brewing.........

There is also an updated thread on the scandal running here: Gay Natee Files Complaint against Bar......

PB: In an earlier thread you said you'd give the place six months. Clock is ticking, grand opening party is next weekend, your prognosis now?

Hey, you should forget Bangkok and come to Chiang Mai . Plenty of fun places to go, wall to wall gay boys, and no shortage of Farangs who've made a speciality out of getting drunk very cheaply. (That last one is meant in JEST before the indignant start replying )

Also, plenty of people in a similar situation to yourself. No prospects back home, life is hard and solitary, no chance of a job, expect for black market construction, no medical insurance, no family to help them if they get into trouble, serious alchohol abuse problems. Yet, they manage to get extremely drunk for 100 Bt per night (Bottle of lao kaao and a couple of sodas), or really shit faced for 250Bt with certain other substances (and the advantage you don't need to eat - another saving ) Yes, what you are planning is perfectly normal here, except most of the people I know who live like this come from Myanmar, not the USA

I know, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit....... (but Wit did have a nice body last time I checked )

Had an amusing insite into this recently. Rented a bike from a well know company for a Thai friend. Seeing a Farang they immediately wanted my original passport. No, "It's for a Thai" I say, and offered him the Thai's ID card (Contract was to be in that name anyway). "No cannot, not allowed to take Thai ID card" was the reply, and a 2000 Bt deposit was requested instead - no problem (And I even got it back).

Another case of the dual standard thing for Thai's and foreigners.

BTW, in case you were wondering you would be completely mad to rent a bike for a Thai in your own name......

Well, I was trying to be subtle but I think Sam has been more forthright

As to his clinic, Sam has the right idea, vote with your feet (Sorry, terrible but I couldn't resist)

Yeah I noticed that. What's up with the matching surnames anyway?

If you read through ZapperGeck's posts you will learn he and his Thai male patner/wife/husband were "married" in a civil ceremony in Germany. It would appear he has some issues that said marriage is not recognised in Thailand and is apparently somehow involved with certain Gay activists who aren't winning any awards for popularity right now. Trying to be subtle again.......

As regards safety - where are these iffy areas Mr. Paggai? A definitive geography of danger may well be of interest to residents of CM.

Firstly, I think some in this thread have been getting me wrong. I actually think CM is a relatively safe place for Farangs; indeed safer than many places in the west, including Norwich But the same is not true for many locals, which was my point.

Like any city CM has its nice, not so nice, and down right dodgy areas. But one should be vigilant anywhere, saying this is a "Safe area" invites a false sense of security. But since you asked........

iffy areas: I guess others can add to this list but, generally, in my opinion (and mainly for Thai people late at night), much of Tambon Chang Puek, except maybe for the areas immediately adjacent to Huay Kaew. Particularly the Sois, around Thanin Market, Santitham, Wat Jed Yot and Chang Puek Soi 4 (near the Tessabaan especially - though some may quite like the "attractions" there ). Big late night venues such as Differ or Xanta. Tambon Sripum. around Wat Ku Tao, all the Muan Dam Pra Kot area and around Rajapat; also the whole Kamtieng area. Some of the areas off the Mae Rim and Mae jo roads, north of the Superhighway (those with lots of cheap rooming houses). The area south of the moat/Pratu Chiang Mai, especailly between Suriwongs and Siridonchai rd. Chiang Mai Land, after dark. I could go on but......

Though the most dangerous place for a Farang is still Spicy at 4 a.m.

If you see them try calling "Chennie Chennie" (Spelling?) that should get some attention

Not a very good advice. You could get in serious trouble calling them ชะนี.

Yep, even though it was six months ago I think that was the point........

(BTW, I did provide the context later in the thread )

The Podology Center

Medical Foot Therapy

ph #053 038 084

San Sai, Chiang Mai

WWW.mft-thailand.com

How come the email address is not deleted as by FORUM RULES??

As the above post there is different rules for differnet business

Back To Topic

There is no podiatrist in CNX.

Just orthopedic surgeon best reputation one so far DR. Suthee

You must look at this web site if onlt to get a great laugh at the hair cuts on these dudes. Are they Doctors? This would not be within the law in the USA. The Podology that is-the hair cut would be fine.

If you read their website you will learn that they are indeed not doctors.

I wouldn't be so sure.....I strongly suspect the two guys with the matching surnames are praticing proctologists

And if you don't know the difference between a proctologist and podologist I'm sure Zappergeck will be back VERY soon to explain

There is also a German guy in town that advertises a foot therapy clinic. I have no idea what they offer there. He advertises in some of those monthly advert mags like Chang Puak Magazine - or one of those.

Not to mention the blatant advert in post#12 of this thread (above) Seems there is one rule for German podologists and another for Bar Owners from Liverpool

Why protest the name 'Power Boy"? For years there was Doi Boy, Coffee Boy, maybe a Boy Oh Boy bar. Should the Power Boy bar change its name to Lanna Historical Cultural Preservation Yet Chuck Wow Yai Mahk Bar?

Power Boys will take many years to get close to the reputation of those two places

And "Chuck Wow Yai Mahk Bar" Isn't that the new name for Adam's Apple?

Recently we had Yum-Boi-Boi too - that hasn't gone so well either. Maybe its an omen - bars containing the name "Boy" in CM are doomed to failure? Guess that's not such good news for a certain new late night Karaoke either?

Of course "Free Guy" wins the prize for the most deceptive bar name!

If anyone can show that this individual was in fact one of those who petitioned for the (real) gay parade to be prevented, then I will happily say G.N. is a bounder. That information is actually contained in my previous message, and can be extracted by a process called 'reading.'

Well, I'm not going to re-read 17 odd pages of the thread on the Gay parade I linked to above, but I think if you do you will find the evidence you want. IIRC some of the protaganists posted their version of what went on in meetings with the city authorities, governer etc, as well as other news articles related to it which named names.

In your previous comment "a commercially-driven gay couple had already petitioned the government for it to be refused a license" are you referring to Chiang Mai, or something elsewhere, e.g. BKK Gay Pride fiasco? Whilst a gay couple were allegedly involved in petitioning the Governer in the CM Case I don't think it was commercially motivated in the drection you suggest, though there might have been other ulterior motives.

Is this just the old story re-gurgitated, as we discussed at length in the Chiang Mai forum some weeks agohttp://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Another Gay Scandal Brewing ? It wouldn't be the first time the CM Mail has run a story which is several weeks out of date and called it news (enough on that subject as threads bashing the Ol'CM mail tend not to last too long on TV ). Or, is there something new here and Natee has gone on the warpath again?

It seemed last time it all calmed down after Natee actually visited the place and realised he knew half the people working there etc, etc (pity he didn't do that before he opened his mouth, but....). It seems after certain gestures of contriteness were made the situation died down. If it's flared up again, probably means it's reminder time for another envelope

There may be other factors here too. It's long been know what the boundaries are for operating an entertainment venue in that part of Chiang Mai. Power Boys has been progressively pushing those boundaries to the extent now that they're sometimes including full nudity in their shows. This will inevitably lead to problems sooner or later [Aside: IMHO they need to decide what type of bar they are and stick to it - is it a Cabaret show for a mixed audience, or a sex show come/brothel? Trying to be all things to all people won't work ]. Also, the article quotes officaldom as saying

"gay bars", which officially register as entertainment venues in a similar way as other types of entertainment businesses, have to operate according to both the law and morality

. I thought the authorities stopped issuing "Special Entertainment" licences in Chiang Mai several years ago, which makes this comment rather strange with regard to a brand new venue. Not that not having the proper licence ever stopped anyone from doing anything in Thailand

Several in this thread have already mentioned the antics of Gay Natee, the following post in the thread mentioned above gives some background info. Gay Natee Background. If you want more of the background to the CM Gay Pride debacle this thread from the CM forum covered it in depth: Governor Petitioned to Ban Chiang-Mai Gay Parade

We recenty tried to purchase a couple of computers with legal copies of XP and office. Most shop staff looked at us like we were from the planet Zog.

Tired several places in Ikon square without much luck, despite getting shunted around from shop to shop, then tried IT city in Kad Suan Kaew, yes we could buy XP, but it seemed to be a major hassle and, "oh sorry, we only have one copy in stock right now"........

Well, I'm disapointed; from the title I thought this thread was going to be about incest Sweet brotherly love and all that.

Anyway, I don't see why we need a history lesson to argue this point, or any political groups providing counter arguments.

If you get away from the urban centres like Chiang Mai, where thai gay culture has clearly been influenced by western culture/values, and head out into the more rural parts of the Lanna Kingdom, you maybe suprised by the significant number of openly gay people you meet. Generally, they are all happily integrated into their communities with almost never any hint of prejudice. For me, there is no doubt wahtsoever about the gayness of Lanna culture"

The concern I believe some have is the way that Gayness is now manifesting itself due to outside influences.

Just because I pointed out a few home truths about this city, doesn't mean I'm friends with every lowlife in town,

I think you pointed out a few home truths about your lifestyle and/or social environment, not about Chiang Mai per se. Might as well be any other place in Thailand or SE Asia.

As I don't believe you know me, or anything about me, I don't see how you are in anyway qualified to make assumptions about my lifestyle and/or social environment, right? (though I guess it is true that I'm never home early enough on a Sunday morning to make it to Church )

I disagree CM is like other places. It has factors influencing the social behavior of people here that are not prevalent elsewhere. Notably, the large population of disenfranchised and sateless people in Northern Thailand, which has migrated towards Chiang Mai for economic reasons. As elsewhere in the world where there's an underclass with restricted rights and opportunities this presents a significant driver in violence and illegal activities.

Santitam on my own at 4 a.m. ............................behind wat jed jod...................

Ah, Sao Jiang Mai, seems to have found the explanation why some of us sometimes see CM in a different light.

I even maintain that for a Farang to get beaten up by Thais in a bar you would generally need to be a Big arsehol_e. Regular <deleted> get away with quite a lot.

Indeed, many times I'm sure we've all seen Farangs getting away with behaviour here that would have earned them some rough treatment from the bouncers most other places

I'm well aware of the level of violence in Thai society but as a foreigner in Thailand, and that is who this post was aimed at, I think it is a very safe place to be.

Paradoxically, the fact that Thais generally leave Farangs alone here means you can go to places that are "closer to the edge" without too many problems. I can think of several occasions in Thai bars where, fists, bottles and the furniture have all started flying around me whilst I've been completely ignored and left to enjoy my drink and watch the cabaret The scene then being followed by a shrug of the shoulders and a "mai pen rai, ao bia ik mai, krap" from the bartender

I'm sure it wouldn't be like that in the "rougher parts of Liverpool"

"Living closer to the edge", "hanging out with losers", "gutters of the city", "hanging around with murderers",

I don't see these as words used by Paayai.

I mentioned him hanging around with murderers and scumbags. You're right, he said

" two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets....."

It should have been murderer, singular.

Just for the record, the two murder vicitms I mentioned were friends. The murderer and the scumbag are definitely not people I have ever been "hanging around with", They are just people whom I've seen out and about and are acquainted with other people I know.

Just because I pointed out a few home truths about this city, doesn't mean I'm friends with every lowlife in town, "hanging out with losers", or frequenting the "gutters of the city", please understand that.

And to those who accused me of trolling - are you claiming something I've said is untrue? If so please be specific rather than hurling insults, what statement did I make that was unture? Or do you just object to someone injecting a little reality into your fanasy version of paradise?

  I only talk from experience. In 20 years I've never had any problems.

Just out of curiosity ... what exactly is your motivation for starting this thread? You SURE it's not the subliminal advertising?

Of course, if you re-read what I wrote, you'll find we are in agreement, I too said: "I've never had a problem", well, not many anyway and generally I think that's true of most ex-pats living here. However, I've noticed that the way locals behave with Farang, is not the way they behave with each other. Ref your example, I wonder how things would have gone down if the drunk Thai Teenager had behaved the same with Thai peers from a different school, moo ban, Tambon, or whatever factor that gets the tribal red mist going?

Let me give you a counter example. A few weeks ago I'm having a quiet drink at a Thai friend's bar, located in a not particularly bad part of town close to Huay Kaew Rd and with a Farang owned bar in the same soi; I'm just realxing talking to friends, nobody's drunk, just chilling. So at the end of the Soi there is quite a large distrubance. "Boxing Maak Maak" as Thai friend puts it. Soon as it's calmed down I finish my drink and leave. On exiting the Soi I find a small crowd standing indifferently around an unconcious young Thai student (still in his college uniform) who's been severely beaten, and to whom the crew of a rescue truck are adminstering CPR. The couple of BIB in attendence were more interested in the young ladies in the "Audience" than what was going on in front of them; not exactly what you'd call western style policing

So I ask you a question: whatever the outcome (I don't know, but it can't have been good), do you think the parents of the victim think Chiang Mai is a "Safe Place"? Just out of curiosity ...

   I don't doubt that parts of Chiang Mai and any other city in the world can be rough but I choose not to go there. I also choose who I hang around with. Just out of curiosity ... what exactly is your motivation for hanging around with murderers and scumbags?

BTW. This topic was aimed at local expats and regular tourists. I have no doubt that young Thai males get involved in all kinds of trouble but most of us don't hang around with them.  

You (and a couple of other posters) have immediately assumed that, because I commented that there is another side to CM that doesn't fit the conception of "Paradise" some see through their rose tinted glasses, I'm guilty of "hanging around with murderers and scumbags". Sure, I know a few people who's opportunities in life have not been the same as your or mine, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are all the scum of the earth right? As someone who's "lived for twenty years in one of the roughest parts of Liverpool" you should understand where I'm coming from on that one, right?

But, step across the tracks into the Thai side of town and its a very different story....

Crikey, and there was me thinking that Thais live all over CM. There's some bloody good lookalikes around, that's all i can say! Or maybe the 'Farang' side of town is full of well tanned expats that have been here so long that they've evolved to blend in with the characteristics of the native ha ha lol

You are interpretting my comments literally, rather than the conceptually metaphorical way I intended. My point was many Thai's experiences of life here are very different from the average Farang's. Violence between Thais is almost as likely in the centre of tourist areas, like the night bazzar, as it is in the more remote parts of the city where Farangs seldom venture.

But seriously folks, there are good and bad neighbourhoods in just about every major town and city in the world, and i'm sure CM and the rest of Thailand has its share of each.

Indeed, but it always suprises me how many here seem totally oblivious, or in denial, of the fact that bad places, and bad people might exist in Chiang Mai (as they do elsewhere). Just because Thais smile a lot doesn't make them all angels When that calm exterior breaks down, the resulting violence can be extreme, not just wanting to inflict pain and a few bruises, but more like a fight to the death (which it often is). And the victims have very little hope of any justice either; for many Thais life here is not "safe" at all.

Seems every few months this topic comes round again.........

And every time I read all the, "it's so safe here" comments I wonder if I live in the same city

Sure, for the vast majority of Farang's living here, it is a reasonably safe place, especially if you don;t drink, don't ride a motosai, don't go out late at night and stick to tourist/ex-pat venues or ex-pat club meetings. Yep, you can enjoy a long and happy life here waiting for heart disease, or cancer to get you

But, step across the tracks into the Thai side of town and its a very different story. I've lived in some rough places before but here in CM, among Thais, and especially Tai Yais, I've seen more fights, nastier fights, the biggest bar brawls, more guns, knives machetes, samurai swords, sling shots, serious wounds inflicted by all of these weapons, more drugs, more people effected by drugs, more people stealling anything to feed their addictions (Drugs and gambling), more people with serious alcohol problems (lao Kaao) more people killed or maimed in motobike accidents, more people mugged for their motosai or torasap, more kids savagely beaten because of the school they attend, big gang fights, etc, etc, etc than I ever did even in the roughest places in the west.

The OP may have a sucessful "No riff raff" policy and Farang orientated bars are largely probelm free (apart from the occasional drunken Farang trying to restart the last world war), but get out into the burbs and its another world. Whilst personally I've never had a problem, I've seen many local people hospitalised from violent incidents here, not to mention a good friend violently murdered. If you think CM is really a safe city it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Anyway, "Safety First" I always go out with my infamous bodyguards and leave the fighting to them Or if the bodyguards are busy there's always the Katoeys - No one messes with them

Edit: Second thoughts, that's two friends murdered in the last year, and another acquaintance in jail for murdering someone else! And another scumbag who ought to be in jail is still happily walking the streets.....

I want to get a real experience of what it is like to live here for expats and locals.

My one suggestion would be to visit the Zoo, and spend several hours just walking around ... if you see an Orangutan, please, if you don't mind, send him or her my very best wishes ...

The turtles will tell you a story, if you listen. The bats may teach you something as they swoop through the darkening sky catching what they catch.

Your mileage may vary, and this offer may be void in your state or Jungwat.

best, ~o:37;

Forgot to take the tablets again?

He didn't forget.

UG is this what made you come out of the closet?

I know today was a holiday, but the mods seem to have been off all week judging by this thread Or maybe they're enjoying it too and adopting the "givem enough rope" strategy...... seems to be working well

Anyway, OP obviously knows nothing about CM or he'd be talking about his skills with a Samurai Sword Ooopps, let's not go there.

It would appear that some posters have a dream (when sleeping) wake up and post something that they dreamt about.

I would love to post some of my dreams, a few here may even enjoy reading about them (you know who you are) but I fear it would earn me a very rapid ban

But some tell me the real life goings on in Paagai land are worse than most people dreams anyway

BTW, I thought it was actually Central Patana property group who owned the peak - or maybe I dreamt that They are Central, but not if you know what I mean...

If you pm me I can send you a list of our distribution points, it will make things easier for you.

Daft question, but why don't you have a list of these on your website (or maybe I missed it)?

Anyway, congratualtions on an excellent issue. The Pink in Khaki article bought back great memories of an "only in Thailand" day trip to a nearby army camp with some gay friends to visit more gay friends undergoing basic training (can you imagine doing that in the US? ). Hillarious! Far from being persecuted by their colleagues, our young gay privates were the stars of the platoon

No way has this Adam's Apple anything to do with the old one, except it got the same name and it is located on the same spot. That is all.

At the entrance you are told – not asked – to pay 200- baht entrance fee which include one drink. I don't know if 200 baht is the price for a drink there as I did not bother to take a second one.

Not quite true, definitely different owner now, but the previous owner, Mohammed was responsible for the design and remoddeling. And the guy on the door who told you to pay, you don't remember him from the old place?

Inside it is so dark that a waiter or whatever you want to call that – a host? – has to take you to a seat using a little lamp

From what I saw the lights vary according to the current show taking place, or did you expect them to interrupt the current piece of "live erotic art" so they could turn up the lights and show you to a seat? The place seemed to have a large lighting system, I'm sure they can turn them up if they want to but I guess different people have different opinions.

The guy in question was a boy that could be found hanging around the Night Bazaar a week before like many others in the new Adam's Apple! No they were not very choosy at all when picking the staff!

I don't think so! Whilst there may be a couple of guys there who've hung round the Night Bazzar before, many of the guys at Adams are Shan from the Chang Puek gang. It's well known that if they meet up with the Akha and Lisu kids from the night bazzar fisticuffs will follow...... They DON'T mix

Yeah, not too picky though..... they've even got one there who used to work at Doi Boy

Dancing or go go dancing was a thing that they like most guys in this profession in Chiang Mai (maybe everywhere in Thailand) don't know very well. This slow uninterested moving on the small catwalk becomes very boring in a very short time. The shows are same same as everywhere else: boring, boring, boring! Not worth a visit!.............{snip}..........New My Way for example is nowadays a 1.000 times better than this pretentious new Adam's Apple.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? In another post you requested posters to be objective. So why is My Way 1000 times better? They have 1000 more guys there? The place is 1000 times bigger? The drinks 1000 times cheaper? The lady boys frocks 1000 times dirtier? The "sliced bread"is 1000 times better? Come on, be objective!

Ironically my main complaint about New My Way is it's too dark! That and the low ceiling means the spot lights are always shining right in your face so you can't see anything!