Paagai

To answer the OP's question I think the reason has chiefly to do with disparities in income between westerners and impoverished hill tribes.

SNIP

No, I'm not suggesting that hill tribes or Shan or Burmese are proportionately more gay than any other ethnic group. They are considerably poorer though.

Yes, that has been my observation. I have lost a couple of workers over the years to that "scene", neither were gay or drug addicts. Both engaged in gay behaviour for money and subsequently became drug addicts. One is in jail now for drugs. Othhers more familiar with that scene may correct me, but that is what I have observed.

As someone who is familiar with "that scene" I don't think you understand the issues at all. Your original point regarding "impoverished hilltribes" is simply wrong. You then seem to suggest this group of people turn to drugs after "gay behavior" I can assure you that is really putting the chicken before the egg!

Also, the OP talked about old farang gays "mincing about with young Thai blokes". In my experience, most of the Thai comapnions referred to here would certainly not be hilltribe or Shan people. More likely smarter Thai guys waiting to cliam their inheritance

In Shan culture gay is NOT accepted; the numbers of openly gay Shan guys are far less percentage wise than for Thais. It's very unlikely you'll see a Shan guy mincing around anywhere.

Is the reason not obvious? In case you hadn't noticed there is a much, much larger number of elderly straight farangs living in CM who have enslaved all the sweet lady folk by offering them generous financial packages of support. With all the fair maidens of child bearing age now under foreign ownership what is your average Thai guy meant to do......... Find himself a Farang right

The latest update on David Crisp's murder:

www.news.scotsman.com

Seems like Thai justice at it's very best! I wonder, whatever did happen to "Mr Jack"........................

Had to go with the first option as I live in Chang Puek. But, it's misleading as outside the local district area I now very rarely go to "downtown" as in Night Bazzar, Thapae, inside moat etc. A few years ago the more Farang orientated venues seemed attractive, now their appeal has faded completely.......

Much happier hanging around local places. Even shopping has become a chore, but fortunately the domestic staff take care of that

There are a whole string of Thai karaoke bars near where I live, but I never go there. I don't know the locals, I don't like to get drunk and I don't speak Thai well enough to converse with anyone. And, I don't want to get into trouble flirting with the girls who might belong to some Thai guy.

There are a whole string of Thai karaoke bars near where I live, and I often go there. I know the locals, I love to get drunk and I speak Thai well enough to have drunken conversations with almost anyone . And, I often get into trouble flirting with the boys who belong to some Thai girl (or worse still to a Katoey ). Sweet! Different strokes for different folks I guess.

quite a few of them are actually normal (bisexual) married chaps...

For what it's worth.

In Chiang Mai around 90% are straight, and mainly Tai Yai illegals from Myanmar. Most of these guys wouldn't engage in any kind of risky gay sexual practices with other men and safe sex is seen as essential on a professional date. However, when sleeping around with girls, or their girlfriends/wives, who often work in the karoke business , safe sex is quickly forgoten. I mean the proliferation of young Shan offspring running around Chang Puek must have come from somewhere, right?

Abuse of the "crazy drug" among Tai Yai hustlers in CM is rampant, whilst testing for HIV maybe available most of them are petrified about being tested for other stuff too......... And when the chemical balance of the brain is disturbed people's inhibitions drop and they do things, and take risks they wouldn't otherwise.

So we have risk factors and aversion to testing combined. "Up to you"!

Unusable this morning in the office. One of the staff called TOT on their own initiative (i.e internet was so bad they couldn' t access whatever site is the usual subsitute for work ). Amazingly TOT called back...... apparently two "main cables" were broken one was fixed around lunch time when they called and the other "would be fixed" by 17:00. Well it got better in the afternoon, though not acceptable and was back to normal (TOT normal that is) around 17:00 so I guess they were being truthful for a change!

If they are now showing this type of event does this mean this place is no longer a gay bar? I heard the Gay gogo bar downstairs in the hotel had now closed too.

There was a time - about 5 years ago when gay Thai boys would gladly be shaved (in their private regions).

Research I did last week (for this Forum) at a number of establishments in Bangkok and Pattaya revealed only ONE shaved boy and that job was at least a week old ...

Peter

I have it on good authority this weekend there were several boys at Adam's Apple in Chiang Mai who appeared to have had a recent close encounter with a razor down below. Seems to be coming quite a speciality of that place

Was in C.R. recently and dropped into Lobo and Regency. Absolutely dire! Regency was totally dead, with two staff from the very bottom of the barrel. Lobo has moved 30M up the soi and is now just a small bar with no show. Slightly better than regency, but only just.

Can reccomend the English bar next to Lobo for breakfast though, awsome! Gayest place in town is the Italian restaurant on the main street near the Night Bazzar (Same steet, but opposite side as Wiangcome Inn). Great selection of camp waiters and handsome hill tribe types; unfortunately, the pizza sucked!

where is PJ's located please ??

At the end of a quiet soi off Huay Kaew Road between Soho Bar and Hillside 4. IIRC it's the Soi where Dome Residence is (A new condotel which, incidently, I've heard good things about - not gay but supposedly nice and good value for money, good location).

Depends what scene you want but PJs is walking distance to Soho, CLub M, House of Male, BBZ Massage and La vie en rose. As well as the trendy scene around Nimanheminda road (not gay, though many gay friendly places here too).

I've never been inside PJs but I know many who rave about it, and I've never heard anyone mutter a bad word, well except to complain it was fully booked! The owners are real nice people and one of the staff is a super hunk

Thinking of you PB! Hoping you make a quick recovery, there's more than a few people around town who'll be missing you

Suggest you try Jet Airways (BKK-BOM). Easy to book on line and competitive fares. They've made a susbstantial difference to this route since they started it 18 months ago. Only downside is you can't go CIQ from CNX

AFAIK this has been the law for several years now. I've been refused beer in the afternoon in big chain places a couple of times, though not recently. Bad for tourism, yes, though I think Hotels and Guest Houses maybe exempt?

This should not come as a suprise. The BIB in CM is very short of cash right now, CM is the badlands as far as the political paymasters in BKK are concerend, and the flow of official funds has been severely curtailed......

Lavender Lanna Hotel, we have a swimming pool, steam room, coffe shop, roof top bar and male massage facilities. rooms start at 1150 for a renovated room. please feel free to come and inspect our facilities before staying.

It's great to see you guys are keeping the flame burning for Jay, and I sincerely hope you succeed. But, can I offer some helpful advice?

With the prevalance of the internet anyone considering a stay at your hotel is likely to search for some information. A quick Google of "Lavender Lanna" greets you with headlines like: "Lavender Lanna Owner Commits Suicide‎" and "Owner Of Lavener Lanna Hotel Found Dead" (some from the very website you sponsor ) A few more mouse clicks and you learn this was allegedly due to massive debts incurred by his business. Whether the alleged comments are true or not, the prospective guest has already formed his own opinion and booked elsewhere, or decided to give CM a miss altogether.

In my opinion, if you are to recover the situation, a PR campaign backed with tangibile evidence that the business is sound and you have the backing of your creditors to continue is required. For example, joint press releases with suppliers, the owners of the building, finacial institutions etc. You need something more than "we have a swimming pool etc". last time I checked, even your website makes no mention of the tragic events or that you are still in business. I think that is a mistake given information about recent events is not hard to find.

Unless you can put out some believable positive statements, rather than hype without substance, I suspect you will find it hard to survive this. That's my advice for what its worth; I wish you all good luck.

I'm sorry if this is outside the bounds, but does anyone know how his business was doiing?

If the whole hotel/nightclub thing was a spectacular failure and he was expecting the opposite (and he needed mony), that could possibly drive someone to take desperate measures - anyone in the gay community have the scoop on how his business was doing?

UG, I believe you answered your own question - enough said. Within the gay community the status of his various businesses and controversies surrounding them were well know but this isn't the time and the place to discuss it.

And to the "Conservatie Christian"...........................................no, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. Anyway, thought you were meant to be compasionate people. Please show some respect for the deceased.

RIP Jay. As the saying goes: better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all. You had your detractors, but you also bought some fun and happiness to many others.

According to the Thai press it was suicide.

Condolences to Jay's boy friend and family.

Its my 4th day here. Been to most Karoko clubs,discos and clubs only one stands out other than the inflated prices of Bubbles & Spicy ----->Go to Bossy disco at Chaing Mai Land on Chang Klan road.... superb chicks more frequented by Thai cuties.

Nice pick up joint too. Saw one group of 3 farangs and they seem to had hel_l of a time cuddling cuties all night. Its along the Shangri-la hotel after the 2nd 7-11 turn right and walk straight .

Oh Dear................might not be too long until the next "Tourist Murdered in Chiang Mai" thread

Nok Air (SGA) fly the 12 seaters to Chiang Rai - morning and evening flights so it's possible to do a day trip. Not exactly a budget option though: around 3000bt all in.

Now calling themselves Nok Mini. Excellent service and worth every baht just for the view!

They can go anywhere in Chiang Mai and find people of their own sort. CM is absolutely stuffed/packed to the gills/choc a bloc with gays. Everywhere you go there are gay men and lesbian couples. Anywhere near Nimmanhamen, anywhere near CMU campus, anywhere near the river, anywhere near Chaing Puek road (obviously centering on the gay cabaret there).

Absolutely darling, that's why we love living here

It's lucky your friends aren't straight as then they would have a bit of a problem, because there are very few non-gay people here. I am one of the few ones left, and when I leave there'll be almost none to breed with and so the population willinevitably go into decline. I predict there will be no breeding going on here within 5 years, at present rates of gay takeover.

Shhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone. What' I'm going to tell you is strictly top secret. It's a cunning plot by the Burmese to take back the old Lanna Kingdom by stealth........

For years now young footsoldiers from the Shan State have been sneaking across the border to infiltrate gay life in Chiang Mai. They pretend to be gay and use their handsome looks and manly bodies to seduce thousands of the local Thai guys and convince them life can be so much more fun without a hetrosexual wife. Instant end to procreation, exactly like you describe it.

But, here's the clever bit, these Shan guys are all double agents, when they've finished their work for the night they sneak home to their girlfirends and fornicate like rabbits. It won't be long now before the resident Shan population outnumber the locals...... then they will make their move .

Well I thought the OP was funny! I must be in a good mood today

My suggestion for a business: set up a social club for foreigners living in the city and wannabees. You can make money from organizing events for them and also selling services such as insurance, travel opportunities, real estate, legal services, household and gardening services, medical care etc to your members........ sweet! The key to success is to make sure everyone thinks it's a club rather than a business

• Accomodation: PJs Place, Lotus Hotel (The gay one as there are two in CM)
  
• Eating: La-vie-en Rose, Sabbai Dee Santitham
  
• Drinking: Soho Bar, Metro Bar or Garden bar (At Lotus Hotel)
  
• Dancing: Mandalay
  
• Massage: BBeez, One 2 Come
  
• Karaoke: Barrocco, Club-M
  
• Go-Go: Adam's Apple or Free Guy
  

Thanks for the tips.

Are the karaoke you quote gay-only places ? And is it possible to "off" the staff ?

If yes, where are they located ?

Yes they are gay, you'll probably find location information on the website I mentioned above. Their map seems to cover most places in CM. As per PB's post I'll have to "no comment" your other question There are a couple of other Gay Karaokes in town too.

One other place worth mentioning, for those who like the more sophisticated scene, is "Darling Winebar" (on Huay Kaew Road near Rincome intersection - next to the market). This smart place has just reverted to gay ownership and is a promising new venue for the gay ex-pat crowd. Close to PJs, Soho and La-vie-en-rose should make an interesting alternative with a great selection of wines.

This week marks a year since the tragic murder of David Crisp. I know he is missed by many in CM. RIP David.

Depends what they are looking for. For gay things, suggest you look at this website: www.gayinchiangmai.com It has a great google map showing where everything remotely gay is located.

Quick suggestions of good places (in my opinion):

• Accomodation: PJs Place, Lotus Hotel (The gay one as there are two in CM)
  
• Eating: La-vie-en Rose, Sabbai Dee Santitham
  
• Drinking: Soho Bar, Metro Bar or Garden bar (At Lotus Hotel)
  
• Dancing: Mandalay
  
• Massage: BBeez, One 2 Come
  
• Karaoke: Barrocco, Club-M
  
• Go-Go: Adam's Apple or Free Guy
  

Very sad for the guy's family and a wake upcall for many living here. Whatever the full story is, which is always open to debate and interpretation in Thailand, a life lost always brings grief to someone who doesn't deserve it.

Earlier posts mentioned "teenager". As a general comment, one danger in CM that can exacerbate such incidents is the rampant substance abuse amongst the younger generation. It wouldn't be the first time in recent history that a farang has lost his life following an incident where a Thai has "lost face" whilst the balance of their mind was chemically disturbed, resulting in a violent reaction. Absolutely no implication that this was the case this time, but always something to consider when out and about.