Paagai

I think BB was following your "A sexy headline always draws them in ..." idea when he started this thread JT.

He got me, I was half way to the airport lookiing for faggot fun before I realized........

Have received several business visas from Indian Consulate in CM. My understanding of their system is the visa application is processed by the Indian embassy in your country of origin (i.e the country that issued your passport). Apparently they do some kind of checks on you there (Who knows what......). That's why it takes seven days. Consulate here just accepts the application, then attaches visa in your passport once approved. Very efficient and courteous Thai lady who runs the office.

By coincidence, just as this thread's got bumped, a new gay suana is opening in Chiang Mai this week. Called Freeman it located by the Free Guy go-go bar in the Soi off Chottona Road behind the Mecure hotel.

Adam's Apple Club (Viangbua Road www.adamsappleclub.com) has a big Gay party for the New Year Countdown, as does Soho Bar (on Huay Kaew Rd near Kad Suan Kaew www.sohochiangmai.com).

With all the crazy drunken people on the streets I'd avoid places like Thapae and the Night Bazzar at New Year. Best to stay local and enjoy with friends rather than risk travelling too far.

re.... Time to dig out the walking boots and head for the mountains in search of debauchery.

it would be quicker if you looked next to foxy lady !

As my views on said locale and it's clientelle are well known, I'll refrain from saying too much lest I'm being baited here

"Quicker" maybe, but those happy young men in Ian's picture have clearly had recent contact with water, a personal hygiene routine which many from the area you mention seem unaware of

I would imagine semi naked youths drinking would be a heinious crime.

Thank you for making my day............

Time to dig out the walking boots and head for the mountains in search of debauchery

"compensated younger companion"

Love it!

Following all the hype about the Red Lion in various threads, including rumours it might even be the Pink Lion me and the gang decided to check it out the other week. We descended on mass and consumed many large Pitchers of Heineken. Service was great, and the staff friendly; everyone enjoyed. We didn't try the food, bit up market for some of my mob, though they were impressed by the running water in the bathroom Seemed a pleasant enough place and I didn't detect any hint of the arrogance claimed by the OP, and the no riff-raff sign can't be taken too seriously - after all they let us in Though the suited and booted type guarding the entrance did keep staring at us (Must have been my "hello darling" greeting on the way in )

So, the Pink Lion didn't disappoint very gay friendly. Of course, the "QUEEN" Victoria (yes they do have one ) is probably winning that race at the moment, closey followed by "The Pub" which also has quite a pink clientele. Also, I don't get the OP's comments about the Pub, allways found the food and service to be great. Far from arrogant I'd say the management is totally laid back (which might give an impression of not caring - but I don't think that's actually true). And a couple of the girls who work there are very sweet and flirty with the boys

Is the QUEEN Victoria still Brit owned? Under the old regieme it was one place I vowed never to visit again due to the atmosphere and terrible service, but from a couple of recent visits since they remodeled, the food and service were quite OK.

that gay hotel-where they even moreorless expect you to bring in a guest for the night-Tawana-its on any Hay ''frinedly'' listing and all those fora mutiple times-like gaytingtong, gaythailand, sawatdee-gay-thailand etc. even that old dreadedned.com-not updated since some 5-6 yrs, still has it.

gay friendly in the way they wont look silly at a gay couple (instead of the common mixed sex) is about any HTL here in BKK.

I think you mean the Tarntawan others have mentioned in this thread, which is opposite the Tawana. I have stayed regularly at the Tawana for several years and it's not a gay hotel (though still gay friendly). A lot of German tour groups and asian golf tours stay there. I get treated very well there, including various times with different BFs, and wouldn't stay anywhere else in BKK.

These days, if I did have a temporary guest I'd avail myself of a shortime hotel (BB Inn is good in that resepect, Suriwongs is cheaper but a total dump); cheaper than paying a joiners fee and safer than giving someone who might be less than trust worthy an opportunity to relieve you of some of your possesions or the contents of the minibar

With the Tawana booking a double room wouldn't work. Their rates are based on number of occupants, and they charge 1000 Bt per extra person per night when booking, so the joiner fee is actually cheaper.

I love my wooden shack, rather humbling, makes me feel in touch with my Burmese neighbours

A well hidden gem is Bakerista on Santisuk. Small coffee shop and bakery; very pleasant with nice garden and sweet staff. Apparently they will start doing Farang food soon too, though the customers are mainly more affluent Thais.

Located roughly behind the Administrative court on the Super Highway, left after Grand View Hotel, first right then follow the road round. It's on the left after the next soi (After the god botherer's place and before the short time hotel ) kadlanna.com/bakerista

Reading today's Bangkok Post is seems I'm not alone in my views:

<snip>

Chiang Mai has its share of crime, some of it violent, but in 12 years all the expats and Thais I have known who have been injured or met an untimely death, have suffered that fate through:

1. Alcohol abuse.

2. Road traffic accidents involving alcohol.

3. Road traffic accidents not involving alcohol.

4. Domestic violence.

Ah, another one of the rose tinted glasses brigade . If you took them off you would see the biggest problem facing this city is DRUGS, metamphetamines (AKA Yaabaa) to be precise. You never mentioned that in your list, yet I cannot believe anyone who has lived here 12 years can be unaware of the problem, or never seen any of it's consequences. Drug abuse has been a direct contributory factor in the two murders I mentioned previously - and certainly NOT by the victims.

Drugs are ruining the lives of many, many young people, and feeding most of the violence and crime in and around CM. Meanwhile, some get ever richer from the misery they are creating which is escalating unchecked. Farangs living here can ignore it if it helps them feel happy in their false reality of this "lovely city", but ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, quite the opposite. Until people do speak out and force the authorities to take real action against the problem, and the corrupt influences supporting it, the crisis will grow and grow. Not that I'm advocating another "war on drugs", that clearly didn't work before. A more measured approach and education is required.

I'm sure I will again get accused of moving in the "wrong circles", by those who know nothing about me and who would rather put down someone else than make a valid contribution to the discussion. Anyway, I know I NEVER touch illegal substances; if others don't believe me it's their problem.

<Paagai> now seems to agree that his posts on this topic are inflammatory crap, and its all a bit of wheeze!

O.K. so I made a tounge in cheek comment about the body guards The rest is serious stuff; I challenge anyone to find something I said which isn't true.

You should feel fortunate to live in such a lovely city.

Believe me I do, and for me it IS very safe, and a wonderful place to live. But I never forget that around the next corner may be another smiling face, but this time with drug induced false intentions

For most it is safe and nothing to worry about and you probably know that, so why post such inflammatory crap?

Why? For the pleasure of reading your replies of course

My nickname for Spicey's is The House of The Rising Sun - partly because it doesn't close until about 5.00 am and also because of the immortal line 'It's been the ruin of many a small boy ..'.

In respect of Spicy I suspect there are more than a few on this forum who could identify with the next line too......."And God I Know I'm One"

Excellent Song though, I've even been known to sing it in another CM "House of the Rising Sun" before now

You might find some quite residential areas in some sub sois, but anyone living in the central area can expect music, screeching cars, racing motorbikes and screaming girls well into the wee small hours of morning. Makes me wonder of any of the youth have jobs in this city because every day seems to be party time down this end of town. Back in the UK, many of the city centers are dead from Sunday to Thursday most weeks of the year.

In the west alcohol is expensive and sends people to sleep (though there may well be some raucous singing, shouting etc before that ). In Thailand, and especially CM, the substance of choice is cheap, and keeps them awake, and in party mood all night!

As a Farang you should be careful how you approach complaining about such venues. The owners are often "connected", otherwise they wouldn't be getting away with it. If you complain too much you may find you have some problems of your own by way of retribution.

A foot massage in a public room would not be sexual. Otherwise, if you aren't gay I wouldn't recommend a specifically gay massage venue to non-gays. They are almost all about squeezing out the big and I do mean big tips, wink wink nod nod, and if you made it clear you didn't want that, they would generally be quite unhappy.

The Lavender Massage website has a full price list with massages from 500 Bt up, and includes the following statement:

"The prices below are for the massage only, and a minimum tip for the masseur of 700 baht per hour of massage should be given directly to him."

Most other "by men for men" massages , of which there are around 20 in CM, operate on a similar principle, though I believe some might have lower minimum tips. Better not get into more detail here.........

In forums like these, one must always be aware that there are various agendas at stake when posters comment on businesses and one should really check out a venue for yourself rather than relying on postings from some posters, especially when there seems to be a certain vehemence to the postings.

I know one poster on this thread owns a competing business with one of the Lavender businesses and that he has been kicked off a number of gay forums for bashing this business to the point of being OTT.

Now I'm curious I don't know what's been written elsewhere, but I know most of the gay business owners in CM and many of the regular Gay CM posters on TV so I'm confused about who you are referring to. I haven't seen anything other than fair comment and justifiable criticism on this thread; TV does have some very good mods watching the CM forum Though I didn't see the posts that have been deleted, is that what you are referring to?

Or, Kevin from the Pink Lion?

A quick browse through peteinCM's TV posting history might also raise questions about his business interests and motives for posting this

They also have powerful friends up and down the line (never to be underestimated in Thailand).

Of course, for a farang that can be like putting your head in the lion's mouth That should never be underestimated in Thailand either!

I'll guess he means due north.

Our posts crossed! Yes, you know exactly where I mean.

A few 100 M away from this hotel is an outdoor Thai style bar with gay customers and pleasing staff. Sitting there on a wooden stool banging glasses with a few fun local guys over a plate of fried rice and a few Leo's would be an altogether more enjoyable experience, and not because it's cheaper.

Where's this then? You mean Soho bar?

Nope! Go straight across the intersecton/Lights after LL onto Hatsadisawee Rd, its about 100M down on the right before the sports hall. Bamboo hut type place with Karaoke, and a pile of katoeys and some fun guys. Good fun , you should check it out, but be warned its a very local style place The sign outside is in Thai only (Dton Fai or something similar - don't know if I transliterated that right). Run by some of the people from the old Doi Boy so take care.

Would it possible to list the gay places in Chiang Mai ? Thanks.

Are you serious? What does "gay places" mean? Businesses that are owned and/or run by gays? Gay bars?

I can only think of one "Gay Place" - the Park of Nimanheminda Road.......... Ooooops, sorry that was meant to be a gay secret

Would it possible to list the gay places in Chiang Mai ? Thanks.

With around 60 different gay venues in Cm it would be a long list! Try googling "Chiang Mai Gay", or something similar, and you'll find several websites. In my opinion, probably the most up to date is Radchada.com, or their new website gayinchiangmai.com which includes a full map of where all the gay venues are located. It also includes a list of the places that have closed which helps as many websites about Chiang Mai are a long way out of date.

Hope that helps! BTW it doesn't include the Red Lion but does include another English PUB and restuarant which is very popular with gay ex-pats and their friends.

I am surprised that anyone who does not feel a place is up to par would continue to go there "several" times.

Suprised, why? I ate there ONCE, there won't be a second time until I get consistent reports that food has improved, everything I'm hearing from other visitors is still quite the opposite.

Power Boys is on the CM bar circuit; of course we go there sparodically when out with a group. Between us we know most of the staff and it can be fun and sociable. Yes, I have some criticisms but put these in the context of how much advertising propodanda there's been, and how it's presented as being perfect. If you make such forthright claims expect to be challenged when you don't deliver what you've promised .

In a pretentious place like Lavender, who boast about the quality of their product, I expect well trained staff and service befitting that type of venue. By contrast, when I'm sitting on that wooden stool in the place down the road, I have no expectations of anything, so there is nothing much to criticise.

As someone living here I know what to expect from PBs and that's fine. If I'd bought a plane ticket to visit their venues, based on their promotional information, I would be disapointed. Other's may be more forgiving, or not actually care provided their sexual requirements were met.

Anyway, I'm sure those nice guys down at Lavender will read this and take on board the various criticisms. There is nothing I've written that will come as any suprise to them (or that I haven't told them in person).

I have seen about a dozen reviews of the place on other forums and all were very positive except one.

What forums were these? Do you mean reputable travel sites, like Tripadvisor, or some of those sleazy gay porn sites where the sex tourists exchange stories about their various holiday encounters and fantasies?

The other weekend i know for a fact the hotel was full. So i think its doing pretty well.

No suprise there, they fill all their cheaper rooms with Thai's - I think the promotional price is only 450 Bt so it's not suprising they are full. So much for an exclusive gay hotel

The comments will depend greatly on who you ask. I know a few people who've stayed there, all visiting sex tourists, who think the place is wonderful. Local opinions among my ex-pat colleagues are much more reserved, another Gay venue is welcome, especially somewhere upmarket where they've clearly spent some money, but among those who know CM well, there are many who think the location and the OTT promotion are mistakes. Then there's the local Thai's, gay and straight, who are largely aghast at the whole in your face concept - it's just not the Thai way.

I've been there several times now. Power Boys was OK, the Cabaret show was boring (but that's just me), it looked OK, though the dodgy sound system made the lip syncing look odd. The staff, though plentiful, were poorly trained and swarming like fly's to the point of being annoying (especially in the bathroom). As to anything else, this is not the right forum to comment on the more sexual aspects of the place but they were quite mediocre compared with elsewhere. I understand it can get quite raunchy round the pool in the afternoon and some of the massage staff are available to provide other services. As to the food: it will be a very long time before I go and eat there again, nuff said.

A few 100 M away from this hotel is an outdoor Thai style bar with gay customers and pleasing staff. Sitting there on a wooden stool banging glasses with a few fun local guys over a plate of fried rice and a few Leo's would be an altogether more enjoyable experience, and not because it's cheaper.

I won't be staying here since I already live in CM (though they do have hourly rooms available for pool/spa users ). But, as someone who's stayed in hundreds of hotels, it's lack of King Sized beds would mean it would never make it onto my list elsewhere.

One thing that clearly isn't working for Lavender is the staff and management. If you only employ Cute young gay guys, especially the bitchy, queeny types, and then go out partying and having fun with them every night, you will never command enough respect from your staff to be able to manage them effectively. This shows very clearly in the service, attitude and behaviour of the staff. For a money spinner they should have brought in the TV cameras and made a reality TV show; with all those gay mega egos it would have been hilarious and an instant smash hit. Sadly, as a proffesional 3 star (or do they claim 4?) hotel it falls way short.

As to the OTT advertising and websites PLEASE GUYS - buy your copywriter a Thesauraus and look up a few alternatives for Cute