jonclark

On another note. Posted in the Sukumvhit BTS, a promo for some of Thailand most upscale hotels available to Thais only. So if the wealthy are not traveling and these hotels are willing to shunt the hotels off to locals at bargain bin prices - what is that saying?? We are in the height of high season.

These are again the most outrageous figures, we all have said previously border runs, workers included. Multiple adverts, as you say-half price but ---for Thai nationals only-this is racist and so bad for tourism, is this promoting Thai tourism. No

Actually it is promoting Thai tourism in the literal sense. Just shows how badly foreign tourists and their money are needed.

six men against one women, what a bunch of cowards. Says it all about the Thai mafia really.

Over the last year I seem to remember seeing a different report being issued from various tourist agencies like hotelier association and TAT. I would be really interested, just out of morbid curiosity, if someone would put together a list of all the headlines and a brief summary of said reportrs, just to see if they all contradict each other as my memory suggests they do / did.

Don't really give a flying fig how many people turned up last night at the red shirt rally, as the number of motorists left stuck in endless hours of traffic jams, wasting their time and money and getting massively annoyed and agitated is far, far greater than those at the rally site. A red minority once again piss*s of the majority.

" He added that the government's handouts were aimed at "bribing the voters" ahead of the next general elections, expected later this year. "

Awww diddums, not the boot is on the other foot PTP feels hard done by and spits its' dummy out the pram. Weren't previous TRT and PPP policies aimed at 'bribing voters, ahem wooing voters as well?

There comes a time where the "you no like here, you go back" logic should make some of the posters here think.

What about the Thai posters - should they go back home??

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served.. maybe not in the way that you or

I would like it.. but no one gives a shit what we think. This is the way it happens in Thailand.

Totster

Actually, in the process you describe below, justice isn't served at all...

I won't repeat the reason why, because I already explained it in the post above referencing Santika...

The reason this stuff continues to occur, and the same kinds of mishaps keep occurring (like the water park rides collapsing) is there isn't a justice system that gains justice for society, punishes those guilty of criminal offense, and provides a deterrent.

In a better justice system, the guilty are punished in the criminal justice system AND THEN the victims are free to go after the guilty for compensation in the civil system... It's not either/or... It's BOTH. That surely would be a better approach for society, even here in Thailand.

Otherwise, you reap what you sow....

Yes, I completely understand your point. However you see justice in a different way from being brought up in a country where this is the norm.. in Thailand the way they do things is their norm.

To address you last point.. I am not sowing anything, the judcial/legal system in Thailand is completely out of my control, anything I say or do will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on changing how things are done here. So, there doesn't seem much point in discussing it over and over again.

totster

Totster - I think the problem with the norm now, is closely linked to the rise in wealth of middle classes and the increasing disparity between the rich and poor. More of the middle class are able to follow a norm normally the preserve of the 'elite' . Because of this more cases are being 'solved' using money' . As a consequence 'justice' is now becoming a commodity that can increasingly be bought. So we end up with a dual system of justice. The consequences of losing 100'000 baht to a rich family with a combined wealth of many millions, is far less severe that a 2 year jail sentence for a poor family.

The punishments are not equal and for societies to be just, justice and the consequences thereof must be equal.

I agree with what you have written clearly the judicial system is the preserve of the Thais, but has been very visible by the range of posts is that almost all agree that the justice system is not just in consequence.

The problem with the idea of buying your way out of trouble is that you end up with a biased legal system. As only those that can buy them selves out of trouble are able to do so. In effect this creates the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

Suppose you have two very similar crimes.

Person A is able to pay 100'00 baht to avoid jail, by payment to the victims family. The 100'000 baht is a small proportion of person A's wealth and as such the consequences of losing it are very small for both the offender and by association their family.

Person B has no money to pay to the victims family and subsequently gets a two year jail term. The two year jail term has significant consequences for the offender and the family as the main wage earner is incarcerated.

Were the consequences of the crime, i.e. the punishment equal?

70,000 Chinese traders? Sounds like a lot of local traders are going to be wiped out.

TheWalkingMan

That's a lot of WP to process

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

Outcry and frustration will not change laws, buty it might change form of government, and perhaps not for the better... The only thing that has been shown to affect change is massive punitive damges. That is a concept foreign to this nation where "compensation" for victims and their families is whatever the compensator says it is. Punitive damages gets in the pocket of insurers, who in their own interests will push for change in driver education and law enforcement. It's a joke to think anything will change for the good of the populace, but get into some corporations pocket and then maybe there's a chance.

Yes punitive damages cause problems of their own. However, I don't see any other way to solve this issue. A pittance of cash, paying for hospital fees and a sorry doesn't match the crime. Anyone to re-open the Santika story??????????

Long term jail time as a minimum mandatory sentence and do away with all this 1'000 baht fine boll*cks. Crimes need to be backed up by serious deterrents.

I am going to blow my own trumpet here and make a very crass and objectionable comment, but it illustrates my point perfectly. I am very, very rich, i chose to live in Thailand because my wallet size makes me unafraid of the law, I do what i want when ,i want and i don't give a monkeys if i break the law or if people dislike me. If i get stopped for speeding, i give the copper some case and carry on speeding, get caught smoking weed, give the copper some cash and carry on smoking, have a crash, give the person some cash and carry on driving. The only respect i have for Thailand and its people are the ease at which i am allowed to continue my lifestyle and stick up two fingers to the law.

This is all true.

The only thing that would make me stop is jail time.

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

Thank you for making a stand here. May I join you?

People pass their own judgment, because experience has taught most of use that legal judgment is passed as easily as money is passed under the table and justice is never seen to be done.

Remember the Benz driver who killed half a dozen people (or so) at the bus stop? The comments here are not people passing judgement, but sheer frustration at the squirming of rich pricks who break the law,, spin the story and play the legal system to suit them, (an under aged, unlicensed driver should not be driving - fairly sure the invalidates the insurance as well, if it doesn't can someone tell me the insurer so i can take out a policy and let my 12 year old drive me to work in the morning), and receive a slap on the wrist while grieving mother and fathers bury their sons and daughters.

It is easy to take the moral high ground and wait for the legal system to pass judgment. Indeed that is how the powerful want people to think, let the legal system slowly grind on, delay the court hearing, wait for the story to disappear from the headlines, wait for a new tragedy to happen, let the grief pass, offer some money to the parent of the victims, extend and delay again, increase the costs, offer money again, money accepted. Case closed. Little miss 16 year old, now 18 goes and starts a new life in a western university. That is how this will play out. Is that justice for the dead?

Justice will never been seen to be done as money talks and she will walk. But the truth is she should never have been behind the wheel of that car.

This is utterly disgusting. What a repugnant display of the lack of justice in this society.

No, little miss sunshine, it wasn't an "accident". It may have been unintentional, but it was a crime caused by your extreme negligence. Trying to shrug off responsibility for the deaths of 9 people as an "accident" is truly an insult to their memories.

So much for Nisa's theories that this girl is suffering. This girl needs to do hard time. She clearly has no remorse.

Agree with you 100% on this one. I can bet my bottom dollar if it was a farang or a piss poor issan farmer in an accident like this, and the victims were from a 'higher class' you'd see a completely different spin on the whole story.

Her actions killed nine people, Don't defend her. End of story

Does water have nicotine in??

The only thing which will stop people from smoking, or smoking as much is cost. Add on some tax, make them too expensive and people will generally reconsider.

If they're using plastic bags as condoms, what the hell are they carrying their shopping in!!!!!

I would have liked to see some form of media reform as well to allow the press and TV (the black box type not Thai Visa) to be far more independent and investigative, so as to allow real public scrutiny of officials etc, and their working practices as part of the anti corruption drive.

Almost 18 years in the Kingdom now. In that time I have seen that this economy, historically, is boom and bust.

I stand on my porch every night looking at all the recently opened condo towers in the Tong Lor and upper-mid Sukhumvit area and wonder "why are there only a dozen or so lights on in the new units, even after a year+ of completion.

In the light of day I can see the sky-hooks continuing to build new towers everywhere.

I see pricing starting at 7 million+ for 65 SQM units and up in the prime areas and wonder, "who is buying? "The newly rich Chinese? other Asian boomers?"

I see the adverts: Guaranteed 12% return and think, "7+ million for a 65 SQM two bedroom and 12% return? That would require about bt.65 or 70,000 a month rental? Great!"

But why are there no lights on in the units at night?

Then I think, "what do I know, TIT."

Everything you say I can well believe to be true. I would also say the whole world is boom and bust not just Asia, the recent global financial crisis and the one before that and the one before that and the one coming next is unequivocal proof of that. Why ? Because us humans as a collective are essentially stupid, that and the fact most of these crashes are engineered to make trillions for a select few. I actually see what you say as a positive. I hope many have the lights off, meaning there are desperate builders / sellers meaning good prices and Thong lor is exactly where I want a condo, so all good, nice and quiet lights off and nobody home ;-).

I'm not interested in it as an investment, very likely to be a turd in that respect, if it happens it's a nice thing, if it doesn't no drama, that still doesn't make it a bad investment when compared to renting. I've paid five figures sterling in rent in the last 1.5 years alone in rent. 7 Million bht to buy is a mathematical no brainer. I don't really care if it's worth a dime which is all it will be worth when the city is relocated in a hundred years time or so. That said I'd still like to be half in (50% down) than all in.

Back on topic - anyone else got an idea on mortgages ???

A mortgage for a single foreigner is hard if not impossible to get. But both Bangkok Bank and UOB offer mortgages for foreigners in Thailand from heir Singaporean offices, i think in dollars. Not sure of the details but it is the only mortgage I've heard of for foreigners in Thailand.

Is this really a news story??

Seems to me the time is right for an election, I'd be surprised if we didn't see an election in the next month or so. It's an ideal time, if only cause PTP is in utter chaos.

Elephants need to eat too. So what is wrong if people, or animal work for food. I suppose you do that too.

Elephants in towns are not working for food, they are being exploited for the benefit of the handler (mainly). Therein lies the difference.

To use a dog analogy, if you can't afford to feed or pay vets bill for your dog. You shouldn't get one to start with. Guess the same principle applies to an elephant.

If you didn't double and triple your rates and hit every one of the farang then they may be here! The strong Baht also precludes you. Wake up guys!!!

couldn't agree more, the article blames everything external, and not one reason is to do with Thailand itself. Sure they contribute, but there are also a lot of internal reasons to do with Thailand why people choose not to travel here at the moment.

Bang on you 2, Hey a few days ago didn,t we have a report about (TAT) figures UP--yes UP. excuse me if I have got that bit wrong. These so called touts-robbers stealers muggers --the problem is, they will have to do more of it , cause the numbers are down-

Nah, you've got it all wrong, it's not Thailand's fault, it's the falangs fault for not coming here on holiday. How dare they not!!. Thai logic.

Merry Christmas ya' all

I think that you have lost your money as without a contract or visa / WP / tax receipts there is no real evidence that you worked here and if you did you did so illegally (whether you did so knowingly or otherwise is irrelevant).

My own opinion is that you report this company to immigration, tax office (does he or the company pay tax?) and labour dept as illegally employing foreign workers etc. (this may result in other innocent foreigner workers getting snared) but in terms of getting some form of 'justice' this is the best i think you could expect.

Alternatively you could try using a Thai friend to report the company to Consumer Protection (but you'd have to think long and hard about that scenario)

If the company is a shady as you suggest, it only takes a few tugs on a couple of loose threads for the entire cloth to disintegrate.

Or you may well have to chalk this one up to experience and use the lessons learned in future endeavors.

Good luck

My own personal favourite is this .."..... while farmers will enjoy a 10-year suspension of loan payments."

Which in theory sounds just dandy, if, and only if the 10 year suspension is interest free, other wise the poor farmer will have a large debt accruing interest for ten years and then could be hit with a much larger debt, if you calculate in inflation and interest.

'Populist policies' seems to be translation for 'free stuff' and unfortunatly nothing in life is free - who is going to pay for this and how on earth does PTP intend to garantee a 15'000 baht minimum wage (which is a fair wage IMHO) for uni graduates in the private sector?? Or is it only for public sector uni graduates Is PTP going to tell private industry how to structure its' pay scale?? Who will enforce this??

A lot of spin with very little substance how will this free stuff be financed?? Answers please PTP?? Or is the answer Tourism - If only life were so simple.

I mean delivery. I do not have any transport so I would have to get a taxi to a street vendor which seems a bit pointless if there is anywhere else to eat out. I used to really enjoy the cheesey max pizzas from the Pizza Company (they dont do them any more) but the normal pizzas just seem really expensive for what they are. You're looking at around 400 baht for a large pizza on its own now

Hmmm better put a "food donation" entry fee when your guests arrive lol. Or just buy 2 bottles of Lao Khao for 80 baht each and get everyone so drunk they wont want food or will foget about eating. hehe.

Hillarious!

Could try Food by phone (google it) not sure if they deliver to your neck of the woods but worth a try maybe?

Let's exercise care in our posts. Many drug dealers may be murderers, but it is up to the courts to decide the best punishment for them. In Thailand that includes the death penalty.

Well said, if the police are allowed to become judge, jury and executioner, none of use are safe. As i remember from a few years ago many so called drug dealers were shot and killed with impunity by the police without any real evidence other than hearsay and gossip.

At the end of the day the police need to uphold the law and the ideals of a society. If they fail in this action and we accept or condone that failure, then society and the law which underpins it will begin to fail.