sometimewoodworker

Past performance is an extremely poor way of predicting the future, specially as the tax requirements have just changed and that the TRD is recruiting audit staff.

My reading and professional advice contradicts the idea of making the gift outside Thailand. The TRD has demonstrated that general opinions of unfeasibility and ridiculousness are not of concern to them. This exactly why you need competent professional advice possibly from the TRD or a Thai tax accountant. I can certainly imagine scenarios where gift transfers outside Thailand are not valid. Don't forget that the TRD is concerned with Thailand and Thai revenue. But speculation without an authoritative opinion is of little value. Take a 20 million Baht gift, within Thailand the recipient pays no tax. Should the RD position be that it must be a transaction in Thailand but the transaction happened outside Thailand there could be 1,000,000 to pay to the RD on remittance. With that amount at risk it is totally foolhardy not to get professional advice

That is exactly correct and is per year. For ease of proof should you, your wife or your children ever be audited you should draw up a gift contract, for each gift, that you and the giftee retain. Neither you nor your recipients have to register with anyone. only if the gift is in excess of the limit must a form be completed and 5% tax on the excess be paid

Individual audits have occurred there have been several posters who have documented them, I personally have been audited in the distant past. They are not something that is often talked about. I have no knowledge of your suggested “Thai way of handling one” I rather suspect that any suggestion of brown envelope handling (if that is what is meant) will provide an increased penalty if not free accommodation for a period. The figures for the numbers of audits may be available or they maybe undisclosed, the one point that is known is that the TRD is recruiting for the job, draw your own conclusions.

That could be the case. However take a situation several years from now, how are you going to convince a TRD auditor that every amount you say was a gift was exactly that, given that the standard approach of tax officials world wide is to regard everything as taxable unless you can provide proof that it is not assessable. I can provide gift contracts and bank records starting in 2024 when it became relevant noting that the audit could happen in early 2034. can you document every transaction you made in 2014? I certainly can not, I probably have no possible way of going back that far. In 2034 I will be able to provide documentation there will be no tax liability. Any audit will finish very quickly. You do you, you may be lucky, you may have a really interesting conversation with an auditor and a rather unpleasant requirement to pay tax!

Not sure what you mean by this. Do you believe it then would be be 'safer' to make the gift from the donor, directly to a Thai account? Or do you believe the gift regulations don't apply, to any remittances from a foreign account? That a gift (supported by documentation) definitely qualifies as unassessable when it is given within Thailand, be it Thailand to Thailand or foreign transfer into Thailand. i do not know (but suspect that) the situation suggested where the gift (with documentation) is given outside Thailand may well not be protected from taxation when remitted by the recipient into her account in Thailand. This exactly why the OP needs competent professional advice possibly from the TRD or a Thai tax accountant. NB. There are certainly different forms of gift other than money, as I have no significant items other than money that relevant to me I have not bothered with understanding the gift regulations for them.

Yes The 20 million is from one person (spouse) it does not limit the amount that can be received tax free, just the amount from a single donee. As the gifts are not assessable the is no filing requirement but there is a gift contract requirement that maybe checked by the TRD as proof that it is a gift. You need advice from a competent dual country accountant. If the gift is within or into Thailand there is no tax due with that scenario . However just because you give funds to your wife outside Thailand very probably has no relevance to the TRD. Once she remits those funds to Thailand they are very probably taxable as at that point she is remitting her money. My understanding is that the Thai gift regulations are relevant In Thailand and only in Thailand. You need the advice of either the TRD or a Thai tax accountant With the amounts you are referring to you can certainly afford, and need to afford, professional advice, I suspect that your scheme will not be seen a valid tax avoidance one.

You are absolutely correct for the previous 16 years from April 2007 I had no particular interest as the situation was rather well defined and didn’t have anything special to contribute so I only participated In areas where I had actual knowledge or experience to gain or give (FWIW over 10k posts mostly in the property and some in the immigration fora). However the Por 161 and Por 162 changed the structure and I needed to pay attention and discover exactly how I needed to arrange my finances and understand both the sections of the U.K. DTC and Thai tax code that now effect me and of course others. The ability to understand both are not exactly simple and require time, work and a mindset that appreciates paying attention to exact wording. In most other areas this would be described as being overly pedantic and nitpicking, but in tax and immigration law/rules it’s a distinct advantage or even a requirement.

That is a very sweeping statement. The TRD does not agree. If you fill out a tax form in other countries is irrelevant to the TRD. You may be required to fill out a Thai tax form or there maybe no need to do so, it is dependant on your assessable income. It is perfectly possible that your assessable income is low enough that you do not need to complete a Thai tax form

The critical point is to crystallise the financial situation as of 1/1/2024. Because all funds at that date are tax free whenever the are brought into Thailand. Separate accounts make the situation clear. if you commingle the funds specially stocks and shares, it becomes difficult to prove the date origin and when profits arise. Bed and breakfasting should have been done at the end of last year however if you didn’t the sooner you do it the more clear the situation will be.

Article 3 sub (c) Japan Thailand DTS no ambiguity

To clarify for U.K. citizens and taxpayers. (NB I do not address Thai citizens, the rules are different) U.K. Government service pensions are U.K. taxed only All other pensions (the state pension is one of these) are in one of 3 categories. 1) taxed in the U.K.; assessable for taxation in Thailand, when remitted to Thailand credit is available for U.K. tax paid (you should keep good records) you may or may not have a top up tax liability in Thailand, individual circumstances will decide 2) untaxed in the U.K. as they are paid outside the U.K.; this means that the total is assessable in Thailand no credit is available, if the amount remitted is greater than you Thai allowances you have a Thai tax liability 3) a government service pension that has been converted to be paid outside the U.K. taxation area; in this case 2) above applies This is the U.K. / Thai tax law as modified by the U.K. Thai DTC If you should/are allowed, in fact to submit Thai tax return and get a TIN is at the discretion of your local tax office

@DrJack54 That is certainly one way to do the transfer and if you suspect that the exchange rates are likely to move in your favour paying into your Wise multi money account/wallet (that is what you are doing) is a good plan. I used to do this and have a tiny balance in my multi money account (£0.43!). However it is extremely likely that you can direct Wise to initiate the transfer from your Westpac account (you will still have to authorise the transfer) and transfer the money to your Thai account. So this simplifies the process 1 contact to Wise that sets up all the details (you only enter the amount once) 2 authorise the Westpac transfer (wise transfers you to Westpac for the banking steps) 3) you are transferred back to Wise where they tell you the status. by this time the cash maybe already in your Thai bank depending on the bank you use SCB is fast a couple of others are also fast BANGKOK BANK is slow This is the streamlined process available in the U.K. it reduces the possibility of mistakes, since I don’t use Australian banks I don’t know that the same process is available there but I suspect it is.

Like you there were never any online discussions that I saw, but unlike you I did occasionally get asked about the tax situation and though I didn’t actually read the TRD information I was well aware of the tax free status of previous years income. I shared this knowledge if it was relevant to the conversation. These conversations were occasional but not unusual I probably got asked a couple of times a year, possibly because people were referred to me as someone who might have bothered to understand the rules, I don’t know, it never came up AFIR. Like you I am doubtful if the claim that a significant percentage of U.K. pension recipients in Thailand are on government service pensions, I never met one, they were all on state pension if over retirement age. The claim is probably related to the places where the contacts took place. It is only since 2024 that I have met 2 U.K. government service pensioners.

I have no idea, nor is it relevant, of your sources of income. ALL DTA’s provide protection for some income types against Thai taxation NO DTA provides protection for all types of income You may have believed you were clear, you were not. The implication of your post was that the mere presence of a DTA made all the income immune to Thai taxation You now say that, that was not your meaning. I accept your reworded statement as a significantly better statement of the facts.