oldcpu

So - you have no reference. You fail to post such. I want to point out to EVERYONE else reading this thread, that Cyclist is simply fabricating a CRS requirement that does not exist, because he believes such makes sense. I recommend any who are seriously considering what he states ,to go research this , so you can better appreciate the fabrication (ie incorrect statement) of CRS (over reach) requirement that Cyclist claims.

I suspect as you already know, that document has tax year 2023 hard printed. its not nominally for tax year 2024. My speculation thou is the year 2024 tax form may be very similar to that of the year 2023 tax form. Further, that 2023 tax form has no location in that form for remitted income exempt due to LTR visa, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt due to DTA agreements, nor any location in that form for remitted income exempt if covered under Paw-161/162. What does that tell us? For those curious, take a look at Thai Tax code article 42. Note that income covered (and noted as exempt) by ministerial regulations are not to be included in tax calculations. ie such income is not-assessable. Thailand tax forms are only for assessable income. Ergo such income is not to be included in a tax form - IMHO.

I previously posted, this has nothing to do with CRS. Canada was taxing global income (for Canadian residents) as far back as 1972 when I first started filing Canadian income tax return. It was decades later before Canada became involved with OECD / CRS (2015 in case curious). You are confusing different things here. Again -where is your official OECD reference here? Don't waste your time looking. There is none.

I have elderly (in the mid-70s to early 80s) friends on type-O non-immigrant visa who purely for the convenience use an agent (where they meet all immigration requirements but they don't want to suffer through lines or waits at immigration). I don't begrudge them that and I believe for them such is a good idea. I note you also use an agent to avoid the 800k in the bank - I won't repeat my reply there that I posted elsewhere on that aspect. But if one is thinking of an agent strictly because they want to avoid obtaining a Thailand tax clearance certificate, my view is that it is premature to look for an agent for that reason. A number of reports of expats who have very recently gone for 1-year extensions on their permission to stay (on their underlying type-O visa) have noted there was no requirement for such a certificate. So its premature to look for agent to handle a 'tax clearance certificate" aspect.

Really? Where will you get that from? Have you read what the Thai RD has on that? Let me make it easy for you ... here is the reference: https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html If you read that, you will note that it is for entering/leaving Thailand. Not for extensions. Currently, as written, those who stay in Thailand and never leave never have to produce such. Also, from what I have read, it has been dormant for years. On the books. But no longer in use. So likely Thailand has to update such, if they wish to apply such. Perhaps they will - but they have not done so yet, .... they have not even hinted that they are considering such (which given how often they like to explore publicly ideas that never come to pass is, shall I say, unusual if they intend to go the 'tax certificate' route)? But who knows. TiT.

No. i doubt they talk to each other nominally. And if they did ... I don't care. I am fine with that. I am even happy to remind them of that if they forget. As long as one legally follows Thai law in regards to taxation then one should be fine. That is what I do, and in particular I try my best to properly research the tax code and the ministerial regulations and directives so to better manage my own tax exposure.

I have had some VERY minor benefits. The one big benefit was there were a number of occasions where I was required to provide a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN). One case was where I needed to buy Thai government bonds (which I needed to do in order to get the last bit of my investment in Thailand for an LTR visa) the Bangkok Bank branch manager advised he would only permit such if I had a yellow book or pink-ID. Then when the bank teller was entering the information in the computer (at the bank) for me to buy bonds, the system required a TIN. Without that the teller could not progress. I provide my pink-ID #. The computer happily accepted that. I did get my bonds, and I did get my LTR visa. I consider that significant. I had two bank accounts frozen on me (trading account and registered savings account) in Canada, when the Canadian bank discovered I was now a Thailand resident. To unfreeze they insisted on receiving a Thai TIN (or visit Canada in person). I provided them my pink-ID # as the tax ID#, and they unfroze my account. Unfreezing was significant - however that is not the full story. Although unfrozen they would only let me sell stocks and stay in cash (because I was a non-resident to Canada). So I transferred my accounts to a different Canadian organisation that would let me have a trading account and trade stocks. However they also wanted a Thai TIN. I provided them my pink-ID # as the tax ID#, and they allowed me to open the new accounts. That was significant (it was partly timely as I subsequently did well in the markets with that new account). Now I actually tried to get a Thai TIN, but I failed as Phuket Revenue Department (RD) would not provide me one. However the Phuket RD did note that my pink-ID could be my tax ID, but that they would not yet activate it (as I did not meet their requirements for having a tax ID). I should note as well, that in the above noted cases of Canadian Financial Institutions, where I used my pink-ID as a tax-ID, I also added a caveat that the number I provided was from a Thai-ID card and that it was not yet activated as a tax-ID. Regardless - for me this was all very significant (involving 6-figure sums of money that I would not have made on the market had I not succeeded in trading again). All other cases where the ID came in handy were trivial in comparison, but there were some.

Good question. Its been a few years since I filled in any forms in regards to my Bangkok Bank accounts (separate Bangkok Bank accounts for currencies: Thai Baht, Euro, US$, Canadian$) - but I don't recall such from them being required. Having typed that, my read of a PDF file on the Thai RD site, indicates that Thailand Financial Institutions will eventually require Financial institutions to contact their account holders to get some additional information (if anything other than TIN I can't recall what else - maybe passport info which they have aleady) in order to submit such to the CRS. Thus far, Bangkok Bank has not contacted me (unless - i did so years back and don't recall).

That is nothing more than opinion. We have been through this over and over multiple times. I even researched information on both the Thai and Canadian information articles describing their compliance needed for CRS. NONE of those mention anything about overseas income. If you can't find a proper OECD reference regarding the CRS in regards to overseas income reporting, then you really should preference your posts to make it clear this is only your opinion. In my opinion you are unintentionally spreading false information with that opinion (as you actually believe your opinion true with no OECD/CRS references to support such an opinion, and with both Thai and Canadian info sheets on CRS saying nothing about such). In fact, both Thai and Canadian faq sheet make it clear that information on some resident accounts (in those countries) that are government regulated are not to be provided to the OECD via CRS.

I hear you ... i read what you note. But I think we both know the current practice is different in cases involving some foreigners. My wife had the view (likely incorrect) that I needed a TIN even thou my income not assessable. I did not know what was correct. She applied online for a tax ID for me (via some Thai language site). She had to upload my passport, pink-ID, etc ... and provided other information on me. This goes to the Central RD office in Bangkok. Guess what they do? .... I'll tell you. They pass the application to Phuket RD. What did Phuket RD do? They called my wife and I up on the phone (my wife answered and talked to them). They noted they would not give me a tax ID even thou I was spending > 180 days in Thailand (closer to 300 days per year in Thailand) as I was not remitting income to Thailand. But ... but ... but what about "CRS" that some post on-and-on-and-on about (not you posting that - granted). It was never mentioned. I don't think the Phuket RD (to which Bangkok RD delegated this to) cares less about CRS for individuals. So ? Bangkok RD passes this to the local office to decide. I don't dispute what you typed ... but the facts are also that neither the HQ Bangkok RD nor the local provincial RD will provide myself tax-ID at this time. I am not saying do not file an income tax return nor am I saying don't go try to get a Thai TIN. I am saying I tried and failed (with full disclosure to them as to my finances). Everyone needs to decide on their own approach.

Yes - true that Canada requires one to report their global income, but if one is not a Canadian resident one does NOT have to pay to Canada tax on one's global income (if a non-resident to Canada). Canada joined CRS when? In 2015. ok? Canada going back to 1972 !!!!! (when I first started filing Canadian income tax returns) required global income be reported by Canadian tax residents. There was no CRS then. Canada requiring global tax to be reported never has had anything to do with CRS. Anyone who tells you otherwise has never properly researched this. They are just putting out blind and badly formulated opinions IMHO.

... and go a step further please and read what needs to be reported. There is no FULL disclosure. Both Thailand and Canada, per CRS agreement are NOT required to provide any information on government monitored/registered accounts. In Canada this refers to RRSPs and RRIFs and some other registered Canadian government approved accounts for Canadian residents or Canadian citizens (including those abroad) to place their money and have it grow tax free. There is MASSIVE wrong extrapolation on the views of CRS by some , believing it has massive over-reach far more than what is the truth. .

The Thai tax law lists income that is NOT to be included in tax calculations. Checkout section-42 of the Thailand tax code states: The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: It goes on to list items - note item -17: 17. Income prescribed for exemption by Ministerial regulations. Then look at Thailand Revenue Department Ministerial directives: Paw.161/162 which together indicate any foreign income from savings & income before 1-January-2024 are tax exempt (which suggests non-assessable income). Also, some foreign pensions/income, dependent on the source country DTA with Thailand, are only taxable in the source country and not in Thailand (it depends on the country - for some others only Thailand can tax the Thai-residents), which again suggests non-assessable income. Then examine the Thai tax return forms, keeping section-42 of the Thai tax code in mind, where in these tax forms there there is NO place to list the exemptions. The Thai tax forms have no place for deduction of this 'ministerial exempt' income, .. why? Possibly because per the Thai tax code section-42 shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculations, and likely such (not assessable income) shall not be included in a Thai Tax form per Thailand law. Kerryd, you have your references. Do not misconstrue my post above as saying you should not file a tax return. I do not know your financial situation. But please do consider Thailand tax code, consider Thailand ministerial directives, consider the DTA with the country from whence your income comes from, and consider whether (and how much if any) foreign income you remitted to Thailand (noting in particular PAW-161/162 and the DTA with the source county of your foreign income). If you are still puzzling, and if you have no TIN , no one will stop you from going to your local Tax office and see if they will assign you a TIN and assess your tax situation. You may wish to bring a Thai-English translator with you. Once again Kerryd, you have your references. The next step is yours.

By the Canada-Thailand DTA, Canada has exclusive rights over all Canadian sourced pensions (or similar remunerations). Thailand has no taxation rights over those. That DTA is pretty clear on that. Of course you will need to pay Canadian tax and file a Canadian tax return on such.

One's portfolio structure need not always be cast in stone ... but I agree, there are alternatives. I've heard and read that view point before - and I note it works for now ... but for those with the money for the 800k in the bank approach, the agent approach (so to save a few thousand baht after all expenses added up) is not one I would consider for 1 second to adopt. There was a time (back in 1998-to-1999) in Thailand when one could stay in Thailand pretty much visa-exempt and never leave the country. Just make arrangements with a local immigration officer (after hours), pass them one's passport, get the passport back a few days later and another exit/entry was 'magically' in the passport, even thou one never left the area where one was in Thailand. Eventually the abuse reached the levels where the Thai government cracked down on it, and the immigration officers involved were disciplined, and foreigners whose passports had the relevant (illegal exit/entry) stamps were made 'persona non-grata' to Thailand if the stamps spotted in their passports at immigration (when entering/leaving Thailand). Suddenly the foreign embassies and consulates became busy with reported lost or hopelessly damaged passports that required urgent replacements (as the foreigners with the illegal stamps were destroying their passports so to get new passports without the stamps). TOO MANY adopted that approach of paying an immigration officer after hours. Why could that be relevant? If every one would take your "laughter" at them serious, and then go the agent route like you (with no 800k THB in the bank) then I dare say this would be suddenly MUCH more in the light - and there could be a crackdown stopping such. Who would that hurt? It won't hurt you with the money. It would hurt those who don't have the 800k.. So for the 'wealthy' to abuse this workaround (to make relative peanuts of some more money) from my view, is incredibly selfish. But each to their own. Regardless, some of those who stick with non-immigrant visa (type-O/OA) approach might end up paying Thai taxes on foreign income, where those on an LTR might not have to. So if one qualifies for the LTR visa, my recommendation would be to apply for such a visa - as the LTR visa at present reads to me to be one of a number of good legal tax management approaches.

Dependent on how your income is structured, if not immediately structured the way BoI wants (to approve of an LTR visa), it reads like you may have a couple of years to re-structure your finances (if necessary and if OK by you) so to meet BoI LTR visa requirements and stay 100% legal in regards to taxation. Best wishes in your efforts.

I believe this depends on how one's income and finances outside of Thailand is structured. One only need tell Thailand BoI about the exact amount needed to obtain the LTR Visa. Significant amounts in excess of LTR visa requirements, if from different sources, need not be mentioned to BoI, dependent on how such is structured. Thailand is also constrainted in taxation to consider the influence of its own wealthy class and needs to consider foreign DTAs ( as not all favour Thailand) and the individual applying may also wish to consider constraints in the OECD CRS where not all foreign accounts are reportable to CRS.

If I can use a comparison, that strikes me as going out of one's way to wave a red flag in the face of a bull, when instead one can quietly and legally walk in a different direction. Or another saying: Let sleeping dogs lie.

Thailand may indeed at sometime require foreign income to be reported, but if it does my opinion is that it will NOT be due to CRS. Here is a Revenue Thailand document, that provides information relevant to the Thailand implementation to follow CRS. https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf Its pretty clear from that document that most of what CRS is trying to do is to minimize tax avoidance by businesses, as the details relevant to individuals is significantly less (although still relevant to individuals to minimize individual tax avoidance). Nowhere thou, in the Thailand RD document, does it state that information on foreign income will be collected by Thailand and provided to the CRS. Further, that Thai RD document also describes "Non reporting FI (Financial Institution)" which are not obligated to provide information on specific types of accounts to CRS. It even goes further in an Appendix to note neither retirement nor pension accounts nor 'non-retirement tax favoured' accounts need be reported (they are excluded from CRS reporting). Which infers such pension income, governed by the Thai government, need not be provided to CRS. I read the same with regard to Canada which I already noted. The logic here is that these (and their income) are already government monitored and hence CRS monitoring is NOT required. This just further confirms that opinions that state ALL global / foreign income must be reported to CRS ARE not substantiated, and its just an opinion, and further, possibly a fallacious opinion. Note thou, that TINs (tax information numbers) must be provided to OECD via CRS, but it is then up to CRS to ask for more information on income, if they wish. However they (CRS) may get NO INFORMATION on pensions and such even IF they (CRS) request such. Of interest in the Thailand document are the details where Thailand needs to provide the TIN information to CRS, where guidance is given to Financial Institutions on how they are to go about such. Don't get me wrong, ...I fully believe to follow tax laws in this world. Having typed that, I find NOTHING (in capital letters deliberately) to prove that OECD for the CRS requires all member countries to report the global (foreign plus local) income of their tax residents. Rather I find the opposite, where some resident accounts are even excluded from reporting to CRS. .

I don't dispute Canada and for that matter Germany require foreign income to be declared. What I dispute is your unsubstantiated (ie opinion) claim that reporting all foreign income is a CRS requirement. You can't point to a CRS requirement. This is simply an extrapolation by yourself , with no OECD article on CRS to backup your extrapolation - meaning this is no more than an opinion of yours.

With respect, the common advice for those considering a move to Thailand, is to rent first and not buy a place. Why? The logic is to not commit to stay in Thailand until one is more familiar with the culture, the laws and the area. IMHO the same is true for a Visa. Even as a multi- million dollar millionaire, it makes sence to come to Thailand and obtain a Type-O with one year extensions. Then after 1 or 2 tears, if all is well, only then switch to the very good 10 year visa. So I tend to take statements claiming few new residents attracted with a grain of salt. Rather I believe many of those with the money are also prudent , and many don't immediately charge into an LTR when there are graceful ways to first obtain a permission to stay in Thailand, before then obtaining the very good LTR visa.

Apologies, but if you have no official reference then this is just an opinion of yours. I have no qualms about providing my tax TINs ( German & Canadian), and I have done so. I stay legal. But I seriously dislike misinformation or opinions put out as fact, even if I am not affected.

I am not getting a Thai tax ID. I am on an LTR-WP. I am also not bringing any money into Thaiand ( I previously brought in a lot when I was not a Thai tax resident and also brought in some prior to 1 Jan 2024 after becoming a Thai tax resident). I also have a pink ID ( where in some cases this if activated can be a Thai tax ID) , albeit I don't believe that is relevant.

Are you certain you are not confusing the requirement to provide a foreign TIN with the requirement to provide foreign income ( ie income from a different jurisdiction of the residents country). Do you care to show your official reference for this alleged requirement to report all foreignincome? ( and not someone's opinion in the press nor opinion at an arguably misinformed tax advisor brief)? I can find the TIN submission requirement but I find nothing about all foreign income requirement reporting by CRS. I only find reference to income from the reporting country jurisdiction, and even that has exclusion caveats. Also, note for example, per Canadian government documents, Canada is not required to provide to CRS account information on retirement plan accounts such as RRSP nor RRIF. Despite the large reach of CRS, it doesn't have legal access to information on all accounts from which income is derived. Pardon me for being skeptical, but if there are only opinions with no official documents to support one's statement, in this day and age of fake news I will remain skeptical.

I think it important not to call such just a "retirement visa, but either use the full name "type O retirement" which the consolate did, or if one prefers call it a "type O". The reason is one can stay in Thailand for reason of retirement with different Visas. Stating just "retirement visa" is highly ambigous as that term could mean very different Visas.