oldcpu

Where is 'here' ? Definitely not in Phuket where both rents and property prices have skyrocketed. I believe it all depends on location.

Thailand is not that desperate yet IMHO. I don't know the actual statistics, but I wager the majority of the unsold condos are Thai freehold. If I am correct, and if Thailand really wanted to help sell unsold condos, they would change the condo foreign freehold ratio, allowing foreigners to own more than only 49% of the units. Say increase it to 60% max. They could at the same time add a clause that the 'combined vote ratio' of foreign freehold units is not exceed 49%. Which would mean in an annual meeting, a foreigner's vote would count a bit less than that of a Thai person. While that sounds ugly, in my experience the majority of those who actually show up and vote at a condo Annual General Meeting (AGM) tend to be foreigners (although that may only be the case for the high end luxury condo market). However while there has been some talk, I would also wager there will be no change to the allowed foreign-freehold ratio.

Its right on the main LTR Visa page of BoI : https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Keep an eye on the 'boxes' on the right of that page that slide in and out. What you might also find of interest is user Pib's speculation on this, having tracked the statistics since LTR vis inception (I believe) :

The LTR Wealthy Pensioner is thou, still the largest LTR visa category (as of end-Nov-2024), with 30.1% of LTR Visa Qualifications approve being of the LTR Wealthy Pensioner category. .

i suspect you can change during the process. Further, i suspect BoI may even communicate back to you of a potential issue with your passport expiry date, and request that you renew such. Again , a phone call to BoI might help you come up with the optimal way forward.

If it were me, I would apply now for LTR visa. In parallel work now to renew health insurance for 1-more year and get required health insurance documentation/letter. Again, I hope someone chimes in and copies text of letter (from health insurance company) that worked for them. You can then send that text to health insurance company (after agreeing for continued coverage to April-2026) and provide that to BOI. Surely you can start that health insurance detail now. Ideally you wish to obtain LTR visa BEFORE May-2025, where if you have all else sorted this month or by February-2025, that should IMHO be doable. Also , I think some nationalities, if requested, will allow one to obtain a passport renewal as much as 1-year before expiry. You could check with your local consulate/embassy, and ask them if such is possible (be certain to explain to them why you need such early).

One further thought (and my apologies if you already considered this and it was rejected), ... is there any chance (assuming you wish to keep your current health insurance provider) that you may wish to contact your health insurance provider now, and see if they are willing to extend your health insurance now for the following year, (to bring it to April-2026)? And another thought, it is quite possible that BoI will want proof of your health insurance that is not in a form that your health insurance provider will nominally provide. I encountered that, and I gave up with trying to use my health insurance company as proof, and I went the $100k US$ equivalent in a savings account. .... I learned subsequently that some were able to tell their health insurance company precisely what was needed to be stated (in a one page letter) and that sufficed to satisfy BoI. I don't know the exact content of the Health Insurance company letter that worked - and my hope is that some day some who went this route will copy and paste the relevant text from such a successful health insurance letter, and post it here. This could be relevant for me also, in 2028, when I go for my 5-year re-proof of finances/insurance for my LTR-WP visa.

Further to your point (to which I agree), BoI also setup the LTR-WP requirements such that if one did not want to show all their income (to meet the $80k US$ equiv) to meet the annual requirement, instead one could show only $40K US$ annual income equivalent instead, together with a $250K US$ equiv investment in Thailand (where the past purchase of one's Thailand condo met that criteria - as long as one still owned the condo).

I recommend you phone BoI and ask. My speculation is that such will be an issue, and it may add a few extra months to your application approval time, while BoI wait for you to renew your health insurance for another year. .

Yes - that is true for some rental car companies in my experience. A couple of years ago, in Northern Ireland, I showed up at the rental car company to pick up my rental car. I passed them my Wise debit card and they immediately handed it back, and stated I needed to pass them a credit card instead (they would not accept a debit card). (Then it was a mad scramble to dig out a credit card and further try to remember my credit card transaction 'authorization' code).

Yes. Phone call is best. I also sent an email (before phoning) and I also received no email reply. But a phone call worked.

Initially when I was on a Type-OA visa in Phuket, I used Bangkok Bank for my 800k proof. My recollection is it would take a week to get the twelve month statement (together with accompanying letter). The very day I received notice from Bangkok Bank that the statement/letter were available, I would rush to the Bank, pick up both (and have my Bank Book updated) and then rush to Phuket immigration to apply for my extension. This was often difficult as it might be the afternoon when I found out the statement was ready to pickup. In those days, I recall Phuket immigration would accept one day old paperwork. I believe that has changed now and they want same day. So I switched to Kasikorn bank for my 800k proof. In that case I would show up at Kasikorn about 5-minutes before they opened in the morning and withdraw a trivial amount from the ATM outside the bank. When the bank doors opened, I would go inside the bank and within 10 minutes or so obtain the annual statement, the certifying letter, and get my bank book updated (with the day's ATM transaction showing, and all balance figures matched). Then I rushed off to Phuket immigration as it was still early in the morning. There are photocopy facilities for a trivial cost at Phuket immigration. Still, I found the precise timing needed every year a bit of a pain, which was part of the motivating factor for me to go for the LTR visa.

One good thing about BoI is they have personnel who speak English and who can and who are agreeable to answering questions. So you could also phone BoI and ask them this very question, before you spend any time doing the application for the LTR visa. For example, I applied for the LTR-WP visa when it was still relatively new ... At that time, on this forum, there was debate whether only a new condo purchase could be acceptable for the $250k investment in Thailand, or whether an older condo purchase (from 7 years prior) would be acceptable for $250k investment. There we some on this forum strongly claiming a previous condo purchase would not be accepted - and some saying the opposite. ... You know what its like. ... The typical Asian Forum Now debate. < sigh > So my wife and I simply phoned BoI and obtained the direct answer from them. Hence for your question, if unclear, don't hesitate to phone BoI.

Could be for Switzerland. I applied such a qualification in my post that there could be other pension incomes. However not every country is like the Swiss. I lived in Europe for 20 years and I note the pension is fairly low for many countries.

I agree the # of LTR WGC applicants are low. But I interpret the BoI website different than yourself. Looking at the 30-November-2024 statistic reported by BoI, they report 5,775 applicants (visa qualifications approve) for the LTR visa across all categories. They also report 229 applies for the LTR WGC. Note that 229 out of 5,775 is 4%. That same mathematics applies for the other categories. So i don't think the 4% represents the LTR-WGC approval rate. Rather it indicates 4% is the relative % of WGC compared to other categories. ... Frankly, those BoI statistics are IMHO a bit difficult to decipher.

i would agree with the term "common" ... but having typed that, such while 'common', is still I believe far above the average European's pension. For example this article : https://www.etk.fi/en/work-and-pensions-abroad/international-comparisons/pensioners-income-level-internationally/average-pensions-in-europe/ Granted that article is +3 years old, ... but even after 3 years (if one adds inflation increases), even the best average pension is likely far below 70,000 euros/year. However likely some of the retirees have more income than just "old age pension" . And of course the LTR-WP is called 'wealthy pensioner' , I guess, for a reason. Still, I can't help but think 70,000 euros/year in Europe is far above the average pension. In 2021 for Swiss it was 2,225 euro/month (according to the link I provided) which is only 26,700 euros/year. So I assume the average Swiss pensioner then also gets substantial retirement income from sources other than just the 'old age pension' ? I am most curious to learn how this LTR-WGC will turn out.

That has been my experience when I used my Wise card in Australia and in New Zealand

Thanks for this. Assuming the local/provincial Thai RD were correct (and I have no reason to believe they were not correct), I suspect this goes beyond just the Australian case noted in the post. For example , the Thai-Canada DTA makes it clear pensions (and similar remunerations) sourced in Canada are to be exclusively taxed in Canada. Thailand under the DTA has no taxation rights on those specific noted incomes. I suspect a consistent policy (with the Thai-Australia noted one) would mean that the Canadian pensions/similar-remunerations are not to be included on the Thai taxation forms. Having typed that, I note as of the 2023 Thai tax return form (in English language) there is no place on the taxation form to list such income as tax exempt, ... so one can make (IMHO) a solid argument that supports the assessment that such Canadian pensions/similar-remunerations are NOT to be included in a Thai taxation form. Likely this could be applicable to some other country pensions as well (albeit definitely NOT applicable to all). I also believe this supports the view, that at current time, Thailand does not require one report ALL of one's foreign income on a tax return, if, ... and the if is important ... if one can point to where the foreign income is exempt (due to Thailand ministerial regulations noting said income is tax exempt). That is also 100% consistent with the Thailand tax code. I am most curious to watch this in coming months to see how (and see if) this clarifies some more.

I note the LTR-WGC and LTR-WFTP had the least number of approved applicants, so perhaps that was a factor in the BoI / Cabinet deciding a tuning (via slight reduction) in the requirement for those categories were needed. I find it difficult to believe the full $80K US equivalent annual income for LTR-WGC will be eliminated ... Perhaps it will be a lower number (such as exists for LTR-WP which can get by with $40k US$ equiv + an investment in Thailand), or perhaps the need for the $80K US$ equiv to be shown for 2 years will be relaxed to 1 year?? or perhaps an increase above the current LTR-WGC investment in Thailand .. ie a lot beyond the current $500k US$ ?? ( my speculation). I believe we need to wait for the full details to be announced. ... Perhaps I am just a cynic.

Most of us try our best. In my case I have a LTR-WP visa and for next few years I plan on bringing no money into Thailand (unless situation clarifies better in next few years). I plan on no Thai income. But not everyone has the luxury of my approach. Those in Thailand with families and less money don't have as many easy options.

For some of us with both the money and no-family, it is easy to leave Thailand for 6.5 to 7 months of the year, and only live in Thailand for 5 to 5.5 months. However there are some with families, and the approach the single expat (or expat with wife and no kids) can adopt is easy. For those with a family much more difficult, and harder to pick up roots and leave.

Thanks for that update. Most interesting. My Thai wife applied to obtain a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN) for myself and failed with the Phuket office, although I suspect if she and I had adopted your approach she would have succeeded. My wife applied online (which goes from Bangkok to Phuket and ended up chatting with a Phuket RD official on the phone). When my wife told the Phuket RD official I was bringing no money into Thailand (which is true) and that I have no Thai income (which is true) and that I am living off savings in Thailand brought in when I was a non-resident to Thailand (which is true), and the official denied me a TIN. That mostly ended the discussion (although there were some more aspects to the phone chat with the RD official (all in Thai language)). What my wife should have followed up with was I could use a Thai TIN as a foreign brokerage account was asking for my Thai TIN. (In the end I provided the foreign brokerage my Pink-ID #, with a written and signed caveat by me that the Pink-ID# was not yet activated as a tax ID). Reading your post, I had expected it would be a P.N.D.91 and not P.N.D.90 form the tax official would fill in, and clearly I may have my understanding wrong and to satisfy my curiousity need to go back and look at the forms again. Out of curiosity, is this for a foreign brokerage?

I checked out the 2017 to 2023 Thai tax forms in English language. The 2017 to 2020 have the year hard printed on the first page. The 2021 to 2023 instead have an empty box for one to enter the year (on the first page), BUT the exemption page (at end of the form) has the year (for 2021 to 2023 English language Thai tax forms) hard printed on that page. So many of us are curious whether the 2024 English-language Thai tax forms will be any different. I am becoming cynical and I suspect there may not be much change.

Ok - thanks - thats interesting. I considered about a year ago to open an account with them , but the intent then was to move both my Canadian bank RRSP (which that bank 'froze' because the bank discovered I was no longer a Canadian non-resident) and my margin trading account to Interactive Brokers. But research (which may have been wrong) indicated interactive brokers changed their policy and would not allow Canadian RRSPs & RRIFs (which are sort of the Canadian equivalent of a USA 401(k)) for those who were residents of neither USA nor Canada. Also, I read posts on a forum (possibly reddit) claiming I had to file USA income tax return for the margin trading account that I was considering to open (and those posts may have been wrong). So I went with a Canadian company (Questrade) instead. Although Questrade is not great for currency exchange. I don't mind paying taxes that are required - but filing another country's tax return would be a major PIA for me. I might look again sometime to open a second trading account (with Interactive Brokers) and also use it for currency exchange. Limitations on transferring funds to Thailand thou (if there are any) probably would be a show stopper.

Who knows? If it is a known CRS requirement then Thailand will either have to comply or get CRS to ignore the non-compliance, or get CRS to openly (or quietly) accept non-compliance, or Thailand simply leave. I speculate you won't read of many outside of the global revenue departments weeping if Thailand were to leave. As you state ... This is Thailand.