oldcpu

23 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I think I'd trust a bar-stool "doctor" before any of these morons.

 

That was an article, not the actual study. One really needs to see the study.

Honestly? I would trust their efforts far more than your baseless comments.

Why? They are at least trying. You are just shooting peanuts from the peanut gallery

3 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

A non peer reviewed Thai study. Hmm.

 

let’s see check back in 6 months time and see how the 2 sinovac with AZ booster works out in comparison to 2 AZ. No one actually knows yet.

Indeed. A lot of things are not known. ... No one knows long term effects of mRNA. No studies yet on Moderna as a booster after AZ. ... 

A lot of chances are being taken globally. The longer the wait for studies, the more people die. This is not an easy call to make.

20 minutes ago, Geoffggi said:

And what about three shots of AZ - where does it all end??? the point is Sinovac is below standard end of

The problem with 3 AZ jabs is (1) no studies done yet by Thailand and (2) more important, Thailand can't get sufficient AZ.

1 hour ago, USNret said:

I would say that one shot of AstraZeneca yields better results than 2 shots of Sinovac. 

Actually, it doesn't. ????

3 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

 

I would also guess two shots of either AstraZeneca or Pfizer are also better than two shots of Sinovac - Now give us some useful information everyone has not already realised for themselves.

More useful? How about 2 shots of Sinovac followed by a AZ booster gives significantly higher antibodies than just (only) 2 jabs of AZ ? An ongoing Thai test/study has shown that.

56 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

There's a thread on the study you refer to here 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1228010-thai-govt-defends-mix-match-vaccine-policy/

 

Thanks.

Unfortunately that thread provides no real information on the study.  I prefer the Thai language link I provided, which has plots of anti-body levels from the ongoing data collection.

53 minutes ago, anchadian said:

A Mix and Match approach in which a Sinovac vaccine shot is administered as the first jab, followed by AstraZeneca as the second jab yields better results against the Delta variant of the coronavirus than two doses of Sinovac, and the same efficacy as two doses of AstraZeneca with a shorter timespan, according to Thailand’s Medical Sciences Department (MSD) and Siriraj Hospital. 

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/sinovac-shot-first-then-astrazeneca-yields-better-results-than-2-shots-of-one-brand/

Further - with similar conclusions, here is an article on a separate study (still ongoing I believe) that has similar conclusions:

https://mgronline.com/qol/detail/9640000072391

The article is in Thai language, but one can use the Chrome browser to translate 'on the fly'.   It has an interesting chart that shows the antibody counts (where the Pfizer column should be ignored due to insufficient data).  The timing of the data collected, suggests that a significant portion of the tests were done when the delta variant was present.

8 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

Slightly off topic, but I'd like to ask the statisticians here if they can help compile the following:

 

1- Total actual vaccines received by Thailand.  (Not committed, ordered, expected.... actual deliveries that have reached Thailand). 

2- A breakdown of those vaccines (Sino, Pfizer, Astra, etc.).

3- The number of vaccines given thus far (I know that's here, but it would be nice to have it all together).  

 

I'd be interested to see how all the numbers add up and compare.  

 

One additional thing:  Maybe it's here and I'm missing it, but if every day a list of Covid cases by province could be posted, that would be helpful.  

Some of what you look for is here ... maybe take it with a grain or two of salt as wiki are not always that accurate:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_Thailand

1 hour ago, club said:

The one jab of Sinovac IS USELESS AGANST Delta . Then they have been giving AZ jab 3 weeks later. But the first jab gives you very little protection

You miss the point of that 1st Sinovac jab.

The one jab of any 2-jab vaccine  is not very effective vs Delta.  This is made clear in MANY news articles about studies on vaccine use.

Further, there are articles that talk of studies that noted 1-jab AstraZeneca was at most about only 33% efficacy vs Delta.  However 2 AstraZeneca is close to 60% (more if you read other articles).

So its VERY clear 2-AstraZeneca jabs are FAR MORE effective than only 1-AstraZeneca jab. ... So why is that relevant here?

Because, as I have posted a number of times on this - a Thai study has shown that 1-Sinovac + 1-AstraZeneca is almost as effective as 2 AstraZeneca jabs wrt the quantity of antibodies.  ... ie. that first Sinovac is useful when followed up by an AstraZeneca jab.

Sure, going for 2 AZ would be ideal, if Thailand had that many AZ. They don't have that many. The local Thai AstraZeneca production plant will not provide to Thailand the quantity of AstraZeneca Thailand wants.  Further, Thailand can not get mRNA doses until Q4-2021 and possibly not until Q1-2022.

So the 1 Sinovac + 1 AstraZeneca is a good approach for those who want to be more safe and be vaccinated now, and where international travel is not an issue for them.

Some more clarification coming on this ... https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/phuket-entry-requirements-updated-to-admit-some-domestic-travellers

Go to the link for the full article.

For Phuket residents who leave Phuket and want to return, the article notes anyone who can produce a house registration book (and has been vaccinated/tested) can return, or anyone who can prove they are permanently employed in Phuket can also return. 

7 hours ago, Gold Star said:

Are these the October Moderna doses that took me 2 days to get online, and that I paid for in advance ...

 

I don't think so ... but this is my guess.

I should thou say, well done in succeeding to book on line.  Many tried and failed.

My speculation is in the coming weeks, we will read more stories of Moderna showing up in dribs and drabs in Q4 of 2021.  My speculation also, is that the Moderna jabs that one has booked via the private  hospitals, won't be given out until December-2021 or Q1-2022.

1 minute ago, Scott Tracy said:

I'm sure some of them have good reason for their firmly held beliefs. But I will have no truck with those who, unless there is good medical reason why they should not be vaccinated, decline the offer.

I'm my view, they are selfish, dangerous to themselves and others. 

I also believe in the benefit of vaccines against this virus.  My friends' view is "their view" ( not mine) and at least they have sufficient common sense ( in my view) to work hard to stay fit, eat healthy, isolate ... Sadly many antivaxers are not that smart to stay fit, although I believe my friends would be better off to go for a vaccination.

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Um, you also forgot to mention that depending on the individuals immune system, they may have had it, not knowing they had it, and they stand a good chance looking at the % of those surviving vs those dying, personally, I will take my chances and wait for the better vaccine while isolating until it's available, choice really, no Sinovac for me thanks. 

I have friends who are antivaxers.

While waiting, I recommend staying fit, eat healthy, isolate where possible, and follow government guidelines for mask wear and isolating ...

Stay safe!

1 hour ago, rupert the bear said:

dear readers do NOT get the sino vaccs they are basically useless and dont believe what CPP or their minions here and at WHO tell you

Dear readers. Do not believe what Rupert the Bear typed.

I do agree if you can get Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, or AstraZeneca in lieu of SinoVac, at the same time as SinoVac being available, DEFINITELY  go for those other vaccines instead of Sinovac.

BUT if Moderna, Pfizer, J&J, or AstraZeneca  are not available to you for many months, think of what will become of you and your family, your job, if you become very ill (or die) because you waited for a better vaccine, that could be many months away.  The best vaccine is the one you can get.

Sinovac while not as good as the vaccines noted, saves lives. Yes - it saves lives. This has been proven, and anyone who states Sinovac is "basically useless" is flat out wrong.

1 hour ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

 

I don't think it's just a political issue either, countries just not liking the Chinese. Its low efficacy has been documented.

I also see countries 'just not liking Chinese' also being political - and maybe saying 'nah nah - our vaccine is better than yours - and then deny the Chinese vaccine'.

I note:

Around 18-August-2021, Thailand's CCSA (Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration) approved Sputnik vaccine, allowing Russian Sandboxers, despite  Sputnik previously failed to receive approval from the Food and Drug Administration for import and use in Thailand.

Why? I think that political (with obvious help the Sandbox/Thailand motives), overriding the Thai FDA.

As of 18-August-2021, 18 out of 27 EU countries recognised the Covishield vaccine, including France, Germany, Ireland, Spain, Sweden and Netherlands.  The other 9 did not? 

Why?  Given most of those countries EU and that the EMA (European Medical Association) gives guidance on acceptance , why a different story between different European countries?

I think that political.

In the EU, the EMA has not recognized Sinovac.  Yet also in the EU (or Schengen region), thus far eight countries have approved use of Sinovac: Austria, Finland, Greece, Iceland, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland, ignoring the EMA.

Why? I think that political.

In the EU, the EMA has not recognized Sinopharm vaccine.  Yet also in the EU, the Sinopharm vaccine has been approved in Austria, Cyprus, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Malta, Spain and Sweden.

Why ? I think that political.

Both Canada and the UK, approve AstraZeneca produced in India, Japan, Korea and Thailand. For the EU, the EMA does not for Japan, Korea and Thailand. The EMA does for India (after India threatened not to approve Western produced AstraZeneca vaccines).

Why?  I think that political.

France and Germany accept the locally Thai produced AstraZeneca vaccine but as noted, the EMA does not.

Why? I think that political.

China, for some time, did not accept Pfizer as a valid vaccine, although my recent surfing suggests now they do accept such.

Why the delay? I think that was political.

For those of use who like to travel internationally, I find it sad there is so much confusion and lack of coordination on this vaccine acceptance.

22 minutes ago, club said:

Jan 2022 for first batch Moderna

It depends on which Moderna orders you are referring to. Note:

https://www.thephuketnews.com/ppao-moderna-registrations-to-open-next-week-81100.php

Reads like some Moderna will be available in November 2021 ... but it's most likely not going to be the private hospital orders.

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Will be interesting to see. I suspect 6 months down the track both the Sinos will be accepted for what they are: OK, not the best, but better than nothing in poor countries, and - if combined with AZ or Pf - OK for entry to home-sweet-home.

Its hard to say.  That article does note " In the EU (or Schengen region), only eight countries have approved use of Sinovac: Austria, Finland, Greece, Iceland, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland."   One could say, that is a start.

Sadly, there is a very large degree of politics (and not science) involved.  The west refused to accept vaccines from the East, and the East refuses to accept vaccines from the West.  A case in point (as crazy as it sounds to me), purportedly many people in Singapore were taking Sinovac over Pfizer, because Pfizer was not accepted in China (and they wanted to go to China over going to the west).   ... Sadly, like the west, China is also playing politics with vaccine acceptance.

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Yep, by exactly the same amount as a single shot of AZ without the initial Sinovac dose.

 

Not true.

Show me your evidence of that. Show me a reference that proves that fallacy.

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

.

My wife and I have reserved and paid for Moderna.  Supposedly in October.  Fingers crossed.

Well done on successfully registering for Moderna.  Both my Thai wife and I tried to do so on line, with separate computers, attempting at the same time.  I was just a few seconds behind her (as I had to use Chrome to translate Thai to English language).   She succeeded to register and pay, I did not.

However my wife has only had 2 Sinovac jabs, while I have had one AZ (with my 2nd AZ planned for September) so clearly she needs a booster jab MUCH MUCH more than myself.

We both discussed the possibility (some might say likelihood) of paying and not getting the vaccine.  Given my wife's Moderna registration is through a Bangkok Hospital branch (here in Phuket), and given almost all private hospitals are severely suffering financially currently (due to very few medical tourists) we decided if she don't get the jab, and also we don't get our money back, its still ok with us.  We would simply consider it a donation to a hospital.  ....  I note we have given many donations to Thai hospitals since the start of the pandemic, although almost all such donations have been to public hospitals.

I have a Thai relative who is a doctor in Thailand, who also registered (and paid) for Moderna as a booster, however he will be getting (and may have received already) a Pfizer booster.  So the 2 Moderna jabs he ordered/paid for won't be used by him, and so it will likely go to someone else.  He also likely won't get his money back, but like us, he doesn't mind, and he considers it a donation.

I concede many are not as fortunate as us,  ...  not many that can just shrug and consider paying for a vaccine not received from a hospital (in need) as a donation to a good cause.

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

 

I've also signed up for the expats Pfeizer still waiting for email.

 

If I get Pfeizer my wife and her mother can get Moderna.

 

Stay safe!

 

Thanks!  Best of luck in getting a Pfizer jab, and the family a Moderna jab.

Safe safe.