oldcpu

I hope this works out for you. In the case of Phuket, Bangkok bank required a week to produce the paperwork to show the funds in one's account for 1 year, when applying for a Type-O or a Type-OA visa. This was to show the necessary 400k/800k THB for the pre-requisite time frame. When I was on a Type-OA visa (with my living in Phuket), it was that Bangkok Bank slowness (having to get the information from the main branch in Bangkok a week in advance of my going to Phuket immigratoin) that drove me to open an account with Krungsri bank here in Phuket, where Krungsri will produce the paperwork on the same day. I was not using a monthly deposit method, so in that case, I suspect Krungsri is superior to Bangkok Bank. I note thou, in the case of receiving monthly deposits thou (such as foreign funds coming to Thailand via Wise), possibly Bangkok Bank is more reliable for their annotations noting the foreign source of the monthly funds - as I don't know if Krungsri will appropriately flag funds transferred to Krungsri via Wise, as coming into Krungsri from outside of Thailand. While this won't likely help the you (the OP) I hope that knowledge might help some others.

One further point about this ... If one truly had an account with zillions of US$ then it would be a simple matter to set aside $100K US$ in a cash account, and that $100K US$ would be insignificant in regards to one still having zillions of US$ equivalent in one's trading account. In such a hypothetical case, $100K US$ would be nothing when creating a second CASH account compared to one's Zillions. Rather the issue (I assume) would be where one only possess a small amount of money over the $100K US$ needed for self health insurance, where that $100K US$ equivalent is in one's trading account, and in that case having to put the trading account money in cash at LEAST 1-year prior to the LTR application, could be difficult. In that case, the BoI view likely is one is simply not 'wealthy enough' to be the 'wealthy pensioner'. Putting aside $100K US$ to a cash account is no issue for one with zillions (nor IMHO an issue for one with "only" one million or two million US$ equivalent in funds). Having said all that, the LTR approach allowing self health insurance is STILL significantly superior to the more limited options for a person on a Type-OA Visa (requiring Health insurance), where one on a Type-OA visa could have zillions in CASH and it would not matter, as self health insurance is simply not nominally accepted for a person on a Type-OA visa. In the Type-OA visa case, one would be forced to use part of their Zillions to buy health insurance from a Thai company. Lots of workable approaches with 'zillions' of dollars. 🙂

In my case BoI were very insistent on my last 2 years tax returns, and when I provided them my Canadian 2020 and 2021 return, they asked for my return for 2022 (which I had not yet even submitted as such was not due in Canada for a few months). I previously sent them my pay slips for 2022, but that was not enough for them. They wanted the tax returns. In the end, I completed my 2022 tax return, obtained Canadian government official reply from that (which noted my global income), I gave BoI that paperwork, and they accepted such (not thou without BoI first asking for proof of a pension that I never stated I had - but that's another story). Still all is well that ends well, and I did exceed the required income level (as proven by my tax returns and pension pay slips) and they finally approved the income part of my LTR-WP application. I think it all depends on which BoI person is handling one's case.

Thats true. but its not without good reason. One can lose their shirt in a trading account. Simple. I have traded for decades, and in one trading account, I have lost more money in one evening that some people save in a lifetime ... (and was fortunate two years later to make the money all back and then some). BoI can't legislate one's trading technique, and one can lose a lot of money fast in a trading account. So BoI had to draw a line somewhere and they drew the line such that trading accounts would not be accepted. Full stop. No negotiation. I had the funds needed for self insurance in cash in a German savings account, but I did not want to officially translate the documents to English for BoI. Ok - so I am lazy. I confess. So I tried with 2 different trading accounts in Canada that exceeded the prerequisite amount - but as noted, BoI would not accept that. And it makes sense to me, one can lose money VERY fast with a trading account. BoI wanted an account for self health insurance with the money in CASH that was not a trading account. Fortunately I also had an account in Thailand that met that criteria (in foreign funds). I guess it would have been easier, for self health insurance, if I simply provided in English language documents showing all my accounts in places around the world, but I was reluctant to say too much about my financial status. Why provide more information than one has to ? In the end I did satisfy BoI. Had I known initially about the trading accounts not being accepted, I NEVER would have mentioned such to BoI. Yep. But it is a Wealthy Pensioner LTR visa, emphasis on "Wealthy" and not a poor pensioner LTR visa. So yes I tried a few different accounts before they would accept one, but ... that's not a big issue for me. Perhaps if this was an LTR-PP (poor pensioner) visa, it would have been a very understandable and massive issue for others who tried and failed.

My meeting the requirements for LTR visa was a bit complicated, as I have a number of relatively small pensions from different sources, which all together, when added up, exceeded the $40K US equivalent/year. So in addition to showing proof of the $40K US equivalent/year, I had to show I met the $250K US equivalent investment in Thailand which I did by a combination of 1/2 of my condo purchase price (with proof of that), and by a 2-million THB purchase in Thai government bonds. Proving the $40K US$ (because my income comes from multiple sources) was a bit completed, in part because of me. I didn't want to use my German pension, as that required me to translate the proof of that into English language. But my European organisation pension alone was adequate proof - except BoI wanted to see that on a tax return. So as noted, BoI wanted me to give them a tax return proving my income. The German government had already told me to stop submitting a tax return (as my German pension too small for them to be bothered, and my European organisation pension not taxable in Germany if I resided in Thailand), so I ended up submitting to BoI copy of my Canadian tax return, which lists the sum of all my Global income. In that I had my Canadian Old Age Security + European pension listed, which together easily exceeded the $40K US$ equivalent income. But for reasons I can't understand, BoI asked me to provide the tax form for my Canadian Pension, which at that time I did not yet receive such a pension (as I deferred my Canadian pension to age 70 and I was not yet age 70). I already exceeded the $40K per year (without a Canadian pension), so I had to go back to BoI, explain I did not receive (nor did I need) the Canadian Pension to meet their requirements. They then accepted that explanation (as I exceeded the $40K US equiv without such a pension). After that the income aspect was satisfied (but ONLY AFTER I had proof of such with an updated Canadian tax return), but I then had fun proving the Self Health Insurance to BoI (as my superior European Insurance was not accepted as it was not in a format that BoI wanted to dig through). It took me a few attempts to show an account with $100K US for self insurance, as the 1st two accounts I showed BoI also had the capability to be used as a 'trading account' which BoI would not accept. BoI would not accept a trading account for self health insurance. In the end I provided proof of a Foreign Exchange account I had with the perquisite amount for self health insurance present for over a year, and with that I finally obtained approval from BoI. In the end it all worked out. The best part for me, was most of which I had to do was from my condo balcony, with feet up, using my laptop computer, sipping a drink, and enjoying a fabulous sea view, ... as I uploaded the prerequisite documents.

With perhaps, the exception of the LTR allowing one to self insure for Health insurance. Being able to show the equivalent of $100K US$ in cash, in a bank account anywhere in the world, is a big advantage for those of us whose superior European health insurance is not accepted (as the format in how the European health insurance defined is not something BoI nor Thai immigration want to delve into). Maybe we are into semantics, but I would call that self "Health Insurance" major sympathy for assets - where Type-OA visa holders can not self insure in the same manner as an LTR-WP visa holder.

Likely as you know there is also the equivalent US$ 40,000 p.a. + US$ 250,000 investment in Thailand category for "wealthy pensioner". That was the route I followed. Perhaps. Perhaps not. When it comes to money, its all relative. I suspect also there are OTHER BoI considerations. The LTR Visa does save Thai immigration a lot of work, had I stayed with a Type-O (or Type-OA) visa for 10 years, with an extension of my permission to stay every year for the 10 years. Thats more work for immigration. But that extra work for immigration (for a Type-O/OA compared to an LTR-WP) is likely not a concern/care of BoI. From a Government department point of view, possibly the 50k Thai baht (for the LTR visa) showing up via BoI coffers (as opposed to about the same amount (for a Type-O/OA w/re-entry permits over 10 years time) directly showing up via immigration coffers) is something BoI want to be able to show (to bolster their LTR program) ... Plus they (BoI) with the LTR-WP get to show more people applying for the LTR visa, even if the benefit may seem less due to what you describe as a "comparatively low financial bar" for the LTR-WP. So from a numbers game of total applicants (without looking at the financial benefit details) maybe that makes sense to BoI. Regardless, i do agree that those of us who obtained the LTR-WP should be happy ... noting I am happy to have this.

I went to the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival in Phuket. The Bank 'tellers' (lady at the counter) did have to consult with the Bangkok Bank branch manager. The lady at the counter had to make many phone calls, to figure out how to do this, but eventually she succeeded - but it took time (1st lots of time waiting (as this branch is always busy), and then a lot of time waiting sitting in front of the lady at the counter as she struggled as to how she could do this. The manager of the Bangkok Bank branch in Central Festival stated I needed a "yellow book" and "Pink-ID" card, but I am skeptical if that is really necessary (I had such, so I did not dispute this with him). I also have a decent amount of money deposited with Bangkok Bank, so possibly that helped.

I've been going through the Thai line with my Thai wife for over a decade, ... where I entered using multiple visas ... such as Type-O, Type-OA, LTR visa, and even Visa-exempt. In all cases (except for one slightly slower) I had no issues, and it was massively quicker than being in the foreigner line up. In the case of the LTR-WP visa (which was slightly slower), when I entered Phuket immigration (right behind my wife, where she pointed out to the Phuket immigration IO that I was 'with her' (but this time she did not say married), the Thai line IO looked at my LTR-visa, and then had me wait for just over a minute, while he walked to another counter and talked to some other IOs. He then came back and stamped me into Thailand, with my permission to stay matching the previous end date of my 5-year permission to stay. One of the IOs he had talked to was standing close to my wife (where she was waiting for me), and that IO noted to her that they don't often see LTR-WP visas (as of yet) in Phuket. Also, in Phuket, there was no 'fast track line' (as of that time) , where purportedly LTR Visa holders can go through a Thai airport's international fast track line. So in summary, all my entries into Thailand, with my Thai spouse, were very quick going through the Thai line with my Thai wife, with only the above LTR experience, taking a bit longer. I also note, the foreign lines (when I entered the Thai line with my LTR visa) were massive in size - and I would estimate 20 to 30 minute waits.

I have an LTR-WP, and I have not made any special effort to get a Thai tax ID - nor have I filed a Thai tax return. Details: As part of my application for the LTR-WP, I ended up having to show an investment of $250K US$ equivalent in Condo. Since both my name and my wife's name is on my Thai condo deed, I could only use 1/2 of my condo purchase price toward my $250K US$ equivalent (for an investment in Thailand). So I ended up buying 2-million THB in Thai government bonds to put me over the $250K US$ investment (with some margin). As part of the Thai bond application, in the online application system being used by Bangkok Bank, they had to enter a tax-ID, else the application for the bond would fail. I pointed out to them they had been taking a 'withholding' tax from my Thai bank account for years (from interest my Thai account earned), and I asked what Tax ID they used for that? I only received 'blank stares'. In Thailand, I am told the # on Thai people's ID cards, is also their tax ID. So my Thai wife suggested to the bank that the bank use the number on my Thai "pink-ID" for the "Tax-ID" column. They entered that, and their computer accepted that. Having typed that, I doubt that the "pink-ID' is the "Tax-ID" for a foreigner, and I too am waiting to see whether as time passes if I will eventually end up getting a tax ID. At present, I do not plan to file a Thai tax return, (as my Thai income (ie income in Thailand) is less than the level necessary for filing a Thai tax return, but things can change - so I also am curious to learn here.

Please be explicit. Where ? You claim your insurance company will not increase its rates when you age. I asked which company. Please, which company? I don't believe you. You claim one must go on multiple visa runs when I noted ONE visa run to invalidate one's type-OA visa to switch to a Type-O visa. Why more border runs? Please explain. You have yet to explain. And for the OP who started the thread - there is NO health insurance requirement (from a Thai branch of a health insurance company) if you go for a Type-O visa (and apply from within Thailand). It (having a Type-O visa) makes your efforts to get Health insurance MUCH MORE flexible than being forced to use Health Insurance from a Thai branch in the case if one has a Type-OA visa. Don't let misinformation of others misguide you.

So you are saying you have a Thai insurance, that will never increase after a few years when you age and thus you move to a new age category. What insurance company is that? If you research the costs of health insurance, you will read the rates for health insurance are higher and higher dependent on one's age category. This is common knowledge. I recommend you research this again. Age DOES affect the price one pays for health insurance. "ALL THOSE BORDER RUNS" ( run typed by you as plural to be spelled runs) ? It only takes ONE run to invalidate one's Type-OA visa, re-enter, and obtain a Type-O visa. Why do you think there is more than one run (as you did use 'plural')?

Health Insurance rates are based on one's age. And yes it will increase as one gets older ... Typically there are categories of age, with a few years in each category, so health insurance DOES nominally increase as one moves from one category to the next. EVERY health insurance has this. I recommend you go back and research this if you did not know so, because it IS IMPORTANT> And in MY case my Health Insurance is heavily subsidized as part of my pension. When I get older, my health insurance does NOT go up. Rather my former employer (who provides my pension) picks up the tab for any increases. If I were to give up my superior health insurance, to go with Thai health insurance, that would be a dumb move on my part, given the superior nature of my health insurance. Agreed. EXCEPT its the Thai insurance that is inferior. ...FAR inferior to my European Insurance. It makes sense to LEAVE to invalidate one's OA visa, and re-enter to get a Type-O visa, to avoid being forced into inferior health insurance from a Thai branch. Many of us have done that. it depends on one's age. And it (health insurance from Thai companies) IS INFERIOR and more expensive (at my age of 70) than what I pay for my FAR SUPERIOR subsidized European heath insurance. No. I did not forgot. If you wish to play accusations, I can do that too (given your not understanding the situation of many here ) but in the interest of forum harmony I won't.

Well ... I think more logic applies. Many of us want to follow local requirements, and our foreign health insurance does just that in terms of coverage. For example, in my case, my European Health Insurance greatly EXCEEDS the Thai requirements. But Thailand won't accept such (for a type-OA visa) but rather require one to purchase Health Insurance from the Thai branch of an Insurance company. Further, my European Health Insurance, as part of my pension, is significantly subsidized by my former employer .. and the subsidized cost of my European Health Insurance does NOT increase every year, despite my advancing years. Health insurance from a Thai branch of a Health Insurance company would likely increase every year (due to my age). To go for less coverage, from the Thai branch of a Health Insurance company, and to pay more for such Thai branch insurance, simply makes no sense. Hence I followed the process (leave Thailand & reenter) to change my visa from a Type-OA to a Type-O. Why discard superior (and less expensive) health insurance and be forced to buy less coverage (and more expensive) health insurance from a Thai Health Insurance branch? The original intent of the Thai health insurance requirement was to ensure foreigners were not a burden on the Thai Health care system, but in part it evolved into a profit motive to funnel funds to Thai Health insurance companies. I say 'in part' because I also believe Thai immigration find it easier to check compliance with Thai branch of health insurance companies, than to check compliance with foreign branches of Health Insurance companies. So from a compliance checking point of view, it is easier for Thai immigration if one is restricted to (more expensive/less coverage) with insurance from a Thai health insurance branch. In the OP's case, if I read correctly, they are considering a Type-O visa, which will not force them (where a type-OA visa may force them) to obtain insurance from a Thai health insurance company, but instead they can use their own possibly superior and cheaper health insurance.

I am on an LTR visa now, but when I was on a Type-OA and later on a Type-O, I never had to show my bank book for a 90-day reporting drive through at Phuket immigration.

Unfortunately when it comes to meeting specifics of Health Insurance for Thailand, they have criteria in place that means some excellent health insurance from non-Thai branch of health insurance companies can be rejected. So one can have health insurance SUPERIOR to Thai requirements which won't be accepted. Hence a POINT is that there are cases of those with EXCELLENT health insurance, whose health insurance was not accepted. And further as Dr.Jack54 noted, one can enter Thailand visa-exempt, and immediately apply for a 90-day Type-O visa, if one already has a Thai bank account. If one doesn't have a Thai bank account, one can still try but it has a risk as one must somehow immediately obtain a bank account after arrival (and this is very difficult when Visa exempt). Given opening a bank account as a foreigner to Thailand is bank policy (and not a legal restriction) as to whom the Bank interpretation allows for bank accounts, this is an area where I believe obtaining help from an Agent (to open a bank account when on a Visa exempt permission to stay) could be very useful.

Hassle? I had to first get a yellow book before I could get the ID. That took over 2 hours in a local city office , where I had to bring copy of official translations of my passport (which I had) ... Bring a copy of the deed to the condo that I owned ... For the pink-ID it was almost 3 hours waiting in city hall, with similar documents, (including copy of yellow book), together with a visit to a local police station to be finger printed, followed by a return to city hall with documents from that police station, and then more waiting in city hall offices. I don't consider that quick nor simple.

In regards to the utility of the "pink-ID", while it was my Thai wife pushing me to get such, I do concede that both have come in handy at times. The YellowBook came in handy for me when renewing a Thai driver's license, and also when going for a one year extension on a Type-O visa (for reason of retirement). Did I need the YellowBook for such? No, those can be done without. The Pink-ID has enabled me to get a discount entry price at a Thai Aquarium entrance (I obtained the Thai rate). Could one enter the Aquarium without the ID? Yes, and the price difference trivial (between Thai fee and foreign fee). The Pink-ID (with Yellow Book) enabled me to buy Thai government bonds (which I needed as part of an investment in Thailand for an LTR Visa) from a local Bangkok Bank branch. The Bangkok Bank branch manager would not let me buy the bonds without such. Two other (different) Thai banks would not let me buy Thai government bonds at all. Is it possible to buy Thai government bonds without a yellow book and Pink-ID? I would guess YES, but having those two 'documents' (Yellow Book and Pink-ID) did make it easier for me (and I did not have to investigate further). So was my wife right in pushing me to get the Yellow Book and Pink-ID? Frankly? I don't know. Sometimes it can be difficult to admit one's spouse is right. :-)

For me it was a hassle. But my Thai wife wanted me to have a yellow book and a pink-ID, and putting up with the hassle to get these was far less than the pain of my wife constantly nagging me. I don't think a Thai friend is needed for certification. I note thou my Thai wife was with me the entire time pushing me - and doing all the talking to the authorities.

I hope you are correct ... but I am not yet certain this will be the case. The RD 743 is clear the LTR foreign income is non-taxable (for LTR visa holders), but it is not clear from what I can read that income tax returns are not required. If it specifically states exempt from 'income tax returns' (and not just 'income tax') I would like to read such as I must have missed such clear statement (and I looked). I am not keen on submitting more income tax returns than I have to so I would like to read such. There are countries in the world (Canada for example) which want all INCOME reported and not just income that is clearly not-taxable. The revenue department of Canada likes to make their own judgement on such matters on a case by case basis. Will this be the case for Thailand? I don't know. I hope not and I hope you are correct, but when I read the translations of the Royal Decree and the relevant Thai tax chapters, at best I can say is that it is ambiguous. Again - I would like to be proven wrong and have a clear statement from authorities that no tax return is required.

That's good. However the RD743 notes the LTR foreigner is exempt to pay "income tax" under "Section 5 - Part 2 of Chapter 3 of the Revenue Code". It does not say "income tax return" is exempt. So I dug up "Section 5 - Part 2 of Chapter 3 of the Revenue Code". Its long. Very long. That Revenue code section does thou note income tax "returns" are required for specific incomes over certain amounts and as near as I can tell (where I am reading a translation) it makes makes no distinction between local nor foreign income. Again, we are talking about "tax return" submission requirements here. So while clearly RD 743 exempts one from paying income tax on foreign income, it does not make it clear that a "tax return" is not required. This is VERY ambiguous to me. My hope is a tax return is not required, but it is by no means clear to me at present. I think with time it should become very clear.

I read translations of the Royal Decree, and best I can read, no where does it clearly state that my income from outside of Thailand (as an LTR-WP), is not assessable income. I do read its not taxable, but thats not the same thing. Based on my reading, I can not conclude that only my interest from Thai investments is used in the 120,000 THB assessment for whether a Thailand tax return is required. While I would like to infer such (no tax return if Thai investment less than 120,000 THB) , I also don't want to let my wishful thinking drive my assessment. The translation I read (where I have a LTR-WP visa) from the Royal Decree states: "Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand." I do not know what "part 2 of chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue code is". Is that the definition of assessable income? or is it something else? If that is not the definition of 'assessable' income, then that suggests to me that while no income tax will be due, it does not suggest to me that no income tax return need be filed. I would be happy to be wrong on this. Further there are also (and these are translated words) in the Royal Decree which state: " In order to be granted exemption under paragraph one and two, the foreigner shall file a tax return reporting assessable income which is exempted from having to be included in computation of income tax. " Does that refer to an LTR-WP ? I would like to think not, but the translation to English language is not clear to me. For certain, that translation suggests for some of the LTR visa types, that an income tax return must be filed. Whether that applies to an LTR-WP is not something I can tell reading the Royal Decree translation ... My hope is that this will become more clear as time goes by.

Like everyone else - I too am unclear how this will all play out. But in regards to your statement which I quoted, in regards income that may be considered non-assessable, there are countries in the world that are interested in all such global income for their citizens or for people who earn income in their country. And they don't care if they still can't tax such. They want to know. For such countries, ALL GLOBAL income for them is 'assessable' even though clearly no tax is required on such. Case in point: Canada. I receive interest income from Canada investments, Old Age Security, and Pension. Accordingly I have to file a Canadian Tax return every year, even thou I spend > 182 days per year in Thailand. Further, in that Canadian Tax return, Canada wants to know ALL my global income, even thou they can't tax it. They want to know every last cent earned from outside of Canada. Why? Because my global income is what they use to assess my tax rate and hence assess how much they will tax my Canadian Old Age Security, how much they will tax my Canadian pension, and how much they will tax any interest I get from funds in Canada. In fact, if my global income is too high, they will claw back part or claw back all of my Canadian Old Age Security. Its my TOTAL GLOBAL INCOME that Canada uses to determine my tax rate for any income from Canada. And this is as a non-resident to Canada. If I was a resident to Canada it would be much worse. As it turns out, as a non-resident to Canada, most of my income comes from OUTSIDE of Canada, and as a result I pay MUCH higher taxes on my Canadian Old Age Security, my Canadian pension, and my interest from Canadian savings (than I would if I had no such extra income from outside of Canada). Even thou I am not a Canadian resident, for me to not declare my global income to Canadian authorities would be illegal from Canada's perspective. And as noted, if I was a resident to Canada it would be worse (as they would tax all income from outside of Canada (if and as governed by any DTA with other countries )). I am NOT saying this is what Thailand may be thinking, but I do note that there are examples of other countries, where such countries require one to state ALL their global income, even thou it can not be taxed and even thou it is covered by a DTA. So at this stage of us not knowing, possibly Thailand is pondering something like that. And possibly not. I simply don't know - and I think at this stage we are all just giving this our best guess. My hope is that there will be no requirement to file income tax returns in Thailand for the majority of us resident here (where our income comes from abroad) but at this stage I think we have many educated guesses , but we really don't know yet exact how this will turn out.

I believe a Thai income tax return is DEFINITELY required by a foreigner with an LTR Visa if they have a Thai sourced income over a certain amount ( 120,000 THB income/year ?? < unsure > ) . An LTR visa does not exempt one from paying tax on Thai sourced income. I think thou, with the updated tax situation, we all are wondering if LTR visa holder (whose local sourced Thai income is less than 120,000 THB) will be required to file a return if their foreign sourced income is > 120,000 THB, even if not taxable per Royal Decree. I suspect we all will need to wait for further guidance from the Thai Revenue Department.

It is sad if that happens. But the simple fact is they are not Thai citizens, they likely have not been paying Thai tax, and their presence here in Thailand is due to the grace of the Thai people and the Thai government. It's not uncommon for expats in Asia ( and not just in Thailand) who run into financial problems, have no choice but to return home to the country of their citizenship. As harsh as it may read, Thailand is not interested in those who don't follow Thai law. This is IMHO especially true when it comes to financial matters. Thailand puts in place financial requirements for foreigners to long term stay in Thailand to benefit Thai citizens and not as a social benefit to foreigners having difficult financial times. Maybe its sad but that is true for most countries and not just Thailand.