oldcpu

Yes - and I also suspect thou if one could show they had the money BEFORE -1-Jan-2024 then there is no issue (per por-161/12). Further i suspect after -Jan-2024, if they can show how much their savings grew in years when they were not a Thai resident, and then add that (post 1-Jan-2024 non-resident savings accumulation) to their record of pre-1-Jan-2024 savings, there would be no issue. I think it becoming more and more clear that having financial records handy, in case of an audit, could be essential. ...and Royal Decrees (DTA / LTR visa) possibly complicate the answer further with additional categories/exemptions.

Thanks ... THAT was the tax code section I was looking for and could not find. If i may quote just a bit more: I don't fully understand what is meant by " instead of calculating the amount of tax as under (1) and (2) " but it could mean not being assessable income as part of the determination for filing a tax return (in addition to not being included in a tax return). But honestly - I don't know. I suspect thou it may mean given the bank account interest was already taxed (withholding tax) at a max of 15% flat tax, it not need be considered in any future tax calculations. Of course this would be a Thailand approach. No way Canada would go for such - as Canada wants to use every last cent of one's global income to assess one's taxation bracket. ... But Canada is Canada - and This IS Thailand.

My Thai wife and I remitted +18-million THB to purchase our condo in Thailand back in 2016. We were both non residents to Thailand then. The remittances were flagged to purchase real estate (or a condo). We also noted such to the bank and filled in some form at the bank. There were no questions asked afterward. i can't recall the form right now. I would have to dig it up.

Speak for your experience. I can only speak for mine. I know many expats (a couple dozen in Thailand) who noted that was what they did. They deliberately waited 1 tax year before remitting. I agree. Although we have seen RD officials and legal experts from the RD, participate in Tax Advisor youtube bloggs (where the RD officials were never fully asked the correct questions). Is that a change? Well - I don't recall seeing such videos before 161/162. I agree. I don't have a prediction here. We will just have to watch how this plays out. I suspect those MOST concerned are those who remit large amounts of money to Thailand where such is NOT covered by a Royal Decree (DTAs/LTR) . At least in my chats with fellow expats, that was my observation. Most had not decided yet if they would file an income tax return.

And I would be happy to see it stay that way. But (... of course there is always a 'but' ) , ... but I would be surprised if the Thai financial institutions (banks) are not sending most annual foreigner bank account summaries to the Thai RD ( where this is already now a OECD CRS requirement so likely Thai RD copied on such) . I suspect even before OECD/CRS the Thai banks were sending info to the Thai RD. Was it looked at thou by the RD? Possibly not. Anyway, the RD knows the foreigners exist - but will they follow up on such ? Likely not follow up IMHO, unless something catches their attention. What could catch their attention? Bank accounts with large amounts of money perhaps. Also , large transfers of money to Thailand also need to be reported (I suspect) to the Thai RD. So the RD needs to decide in the past, based on the money involved, if they follow up. I speculate 99% of the time they never bothered. But there is always that 1%. Again , speculation is the operative word for both you and me.

I don't think so. I have not verified your research, but I do know that any government registered account in Thailand is NOT reported to CRS. (This typically corresponds to any Thai equivalent of a USA 401k or a Canadian RRSP/RRIF). Can a foreigner have money in such Thai government registered accounts? i have not checked such, but i suspect foreigners can for some of them. But again, I have not checked such.

Thankyou! i wish some of the video blogger Income tax advisor companies had been as direct in asking those questions. Such questions were not in the parts of their videos that they posted on youtube. And the paranoid/skeptic part of me asks, why not? Were the 'tax advisor companies' just trying to keep this obscure, so to drum up business for themselves? But I need to say to myself over and over " do not be a skeptic ...do not be a skeptic ... do no be ... "

Yes Those foreigners remitting in the year of income earnings were subject to paying Thailand tax if their remitted income to Thailand was assessable over a certain threshold However I speculate that the Thai RD knowing the loop hole (that was closed by por-161), and the RD not knowing everthing about those persons (especially since in pre-CRS days they had no access to the sum of foreigners bank accounts with other OECD countries) the RD may have decided it not worth their while to chase after such people. Plus such foreigners who remitted their income to Thailand, may have been covered by Royal-Decree-18 and the relevant Double Tax Agreement (DTA) potentially making such income exempt for the purpose of an income tax calculation. Knowing all of that, was it worth the time of the RD to chase after foreigners? However 161.162 closed the loophole. To repeat - in short, before por-161/162, the Thai RD may have thought it not worth their while. The Thai RD may reconsider such now. Pretty much every expat that I know (albeit they are not forum participants) and i know more than a few, were relying on that loophole. Except now - one no longer has a legal leg to stand on, if the RD goes after one.

I suspect most of use are much more curious than you as to how the tax forms are precisely completed. Best wishes (and I type that with a good heart) in terms of how this turns out.

i have not researched UK state pensions. i do recall someone stating to me that they don't get annual inflation adjustments if one is an expatriate. This reads to be somewhat painful - and a good reminder to me that i am very lucky in regards to my pension sources.

At the risk of my getting my head chopped off ... lets not go there. We know we have disagreements with others (you and I have similar views I suspect). Still lets wait and see how this plays out.

it is fascinating - I still can't find that in the tax code - but I assume its there. (I tend to be skeptical sometimes and like to find the most official source).

Interesting view. ... and i guess my comment off topic, but is this really the case? I speculate not the case in Phuket where I live but possibly in other provinces.

Yes. por.161 is not law. Its a ministerial instruction, but if one wishes to go against it then one is into legal action with the Thai Revenue department. That is something I would prefer not to do. Why is 161 of interest? Because before, both Thai and foreigner would have income outside of Thailand, but they would not remtit such in the year of earning. They would wait a year. Then they call it savings. Because prior to por.161, the tax interpretation was only money remitted in the year of earning was taxable. Por.161 closed that loophole. With por.161, no matter when one remits foreign income, it is considered assessable and taxable (subject of course to tax exemptions such as Royal Decrees, DTAs ... and other aspects of the tax code). Also note por.162 specifies that por.161 is only from 1-Jan-2024 onward.

Thats why its a hypothetical example. lol.

Sadly I am not such a hypothetical billionaire ... very very far from such ... but perhaps similar to you, I also went for bank accounts with low interest for my funds in Thailand. For funds outside of Thailand (such as Canada) where I already file an income tax return every year to Canada, I do try to optimize my investment and obtain much higher returns.

further to this, I tried reading parts of the Thai tax code. I see section-40 of the Thai tax code in 40(4a) includes "interest on a bond, deposit ... " as assessable income. However as happens from time to time with the tax code, other aspects than a single paragraph are also relevant. One must continue reading I then noted section-42 of the tax code: 10,000 THB is a pretty low threshold and easy to exceed. That suggests our hypothetical billionaire needs to include their $3-million USD interest as assessable income, file a tax return, but not pay any more than their 15% withholding tax. EDIT: I am still looking for more relevant sections on 'withholding tax' in regards to not being included (or being included) in 'assessable income" On a different (but related aspect) I looked at what it states about mutual fund income and assessable income: i recall Krungsri bank personal, in trying to sell me a mutual fund, claimed mutual fund income need not be put in a Thailand tax form (ie saying such is not assessable income) so in the Thai tax code I noticed with interest section 42(c) That seems to support what Krungri bank stated. i.e. mutual fund income is not included in the tax calculation and it is not assessable income. However , I still have not looked to see if there are any relevant Royal Decrees nor Ministerial instructions on interest in Thailand in regards to tax calculation. Further - I could have missed points or other relevant tax code clauses, so one really needs to triple check everything I noted - as I too am unsure.

It would be nice if that is the case. ...and I am not trying to start a debate ... I am just trying to find what the Thai RD says about this. I note on the Thai web site under 2.1 "Assessable Income": https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html However that link in 3.2 goes on to note (as already pointed out): Does the "computation of PIT (personal income tax)" mean it is not to be considered as assessable income? I think it infers that. I also know there is more to 'assessable income' definition than just the tax code in isolation ... but that also Royal Decrees and Ministerial Instructions need to be considered. I am curious as I have deliberately placed my funds in Thailand in low interest bearing accounts (avoiding high interest) to just barely stay below the threshold in which an income tax return needs to be filed if such (although already taxed) was considered assessable income. I have felt the slightly higher interest I could get is not worth the PIA to file an income tax return (where obviously in evaluating 'worth' this is very very very subjective). However if withholding tax on interest means it does not feed into the 'assessable income' category, then I might shift funds to a higher interest bearing account. ... Such higher interest might pay for a few expensive meals or more.

Are semantics important here? i read it can be excluded from other income, but does that mean it is not 'assessable' income? (I assume that is what you mean).

That's interesting. Of course one (on $20-million US$ interest) is still paying $3-million US$ in taxes likely in withholding taxes (the flat 15% rate you refer to). What is most interesting, is the statement "individuals may choose to exclude interest from other income", although as to where that exclusion applies in the precise implementation is not clear to me yet. Obviously these are mute and hypothetical points/discussions ... but given other discussions on this thread, it has me wondering, is this interest (with a flat 15% tax rate) to be included in 'assessable' income for the determination of whether a tax return is required on such a large amount of interest. Yes, the Thai tax on the interest was already withheld (by bank or financial institute) so the Thai RD have their money , ... but is it still necessary to report such on a Thai income tax form if, say, that is one's only income while a tax resident of Thailand? i prefer NOT to start another heated discussion on this, but if any know the relevant section in the Thai tax code, or Royal Decree or Ministerial instruction they could point to, that would be a useful reference to keep.

Misleading imho. Every baht ( minus basic deductions) one earns in interest in Thailand on that remitted money while in Thailand is assessable by Thailand and hence potentially taxable. If one assumes a pathetic 2% interest, that is $20,000,000 interest that will be need to be reported and taxed in Thailand. As long as that money remains in Thailand, even if one is not a Thai tax resident, my understanding is the interest received while the money is in Thailand, will still be taxed in Thailand, as the interest is assessed as Thai earnings. We have different views here.

I think all agree that tax residents in Thailand with assessable income from within Thailand or remitted to Thailand from any earnings after 31 Dec 2023, , over the required assessble income threshold , need to apply for a Thai TIN and submit a tax return. But some of these videos have me shaking my head .. Maybe they reduced the # of numbers in the falang TIN from 13 to 10 to save money? lol .. After all, all Thai know falang can hardly count to 10, much less to 13. lol .. or maybe it's due Trump being president, and AI stocks falling .. due the moon almost being a full moon .. and .. and .. ... lol. Apologies. The devil made me post this.

In my case no email. No phone call. My recollection was that I was at the Bangkok bank branch getting a bankbook updated, and I was called over and asked to complete and sign the form. Fortunately I was in no hurry as I did ask them a few questions, and I had to wait for someone more senior to answer my questions. Krungsri was similar, .. they had me fill such in when I was at the bank for other reasons.

I had to fill something similar at Bangkok bank some time back. Also at Krungsri Bank. And recently when opening new Canadian trading accounts I had to do such. Forms were a bit different but same sort of information required.

Yes, if not done already. But (apologies), ... TIT so who knows.