msg362

a Homeopathic doctor is an oxymoron

( You must have heard the homeopathic patient who died from an overdose? - he forgot to take his medicine)

Try going into a car dealership in Thailand and asking to buy a car with a heater.

My wife's Mazda 3 has one!

Thanks for your information, I will look more closely at the website words next time but was charged about 350bts to clear a cheque for 1k last year so was preparing for the worst!

Now I need to get the SWIFT code for my bank, does anyone know what it looks like so I can see if I am being given the right infornation?

Have emailed Bank of Ayudyah, no response yet maybe its to do with school holidays or they have to look through the bins to find it!

Can't remember mine exactly, but it's about 6 letters, something like'BKK BKK' for a Bangkok bank

What I usually do is move the money from UK account into Bangkok Bank London, then they transfer it to Bangkok Bank Thailand, total fees £20.

As stated Bangkok bank is max 500 baht when money comes into Thailand.

Takes 5 days from start to finish.

It depends on the UK bank and arrangements you have set-up with them.

I can arrange a SWIFT transfer, via internet banking, cost 20 pounds, to my Bangkok Bank. The money is in my account the next day.

tomallison

Which banks in Uk / Thailand are using please ? thats extremely quick to be done "next day", .............. thanks in advance for the info

SWIFT just transferred 15K GBP from 1st Direct by swift. Phoned 5.00pm Monday ( 10.00 am UK) cost £25. Arrived in my BKK account next day ( Tuesday) at an exchange rate of 48.6 Seemed to be no charge at BKK and their rate is far better than the UK

Because it's better than wearing a skirt!

Don't know about that.

I have never tried.

you've clearly never lived in Scotland!

Because it's better than wearing a skirt!

Good to learn there are some safety deposit boxes available. I've heard my friends discuss this topic and none had found a safety deposit box at a branch bank near their home. I must admit, we gave up looking once we acquired a safe.

Like you I gave up the bank deposit box once we got a safe

We've been getting a song and dance from our branch bank about a safe deposit box for over two years, despite substantial funds in the bank. I have yet to hear of any westerner who actually has a safe deposit box at a bank in Chiang Mai. You can purchase a home safe from a vendor on Chang Moi Rd. I imagine other shops sell them as well.

I had one for several years in the BKK bak in Bor Sang. No problem and from looking, many were not used

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

The cases in Chiang Mai are very similar to what happened in Phi Phi two years ago when four people also died and a few people fell very sick but recovered. They all stayed at the same guest house. Like this time, the police said that the deaths were a co-incidence and the guest house remains open with the same owner today. The autopsey was inconclusive but referred to a possibility of a food poison or other toxin. The police unofficially said they drank moonlight (although not together) somewhere however one of the victims didn't drink according to her boyfriend.

At Phi Phi there was a waste water treatment being expanded by the guest house owners to serve Phi Phi and one way to sterilize the new equipment before use is to coat it with a chemical agent containing cyanide.

Cyanide in tiny doeses causes severe food poisoning like symptoms and violent cramps. In higher does it's fatal with seizure of respitary and heart muscles. It's very easy to buy chemical compounds containing cyanide, especially bags of industrial cleaners imported (probably illegally) from China via the north of Thailand. Cyanide is almost odourless and tasteless.

The only food poison that could kill quickly is clostiduim botulinum which is found in damaged cans. However, botulinum would not kill two people almost simultaneously. Botulinum would also not be found on bbq port of chicken from outside however dirty while from cans would be a widespread problem not confined to the 5th floor of one hotel. E-coli is another potentially fatal pathagen but death is not common in healthy adults and patients would be sick for several days or even a couple of weeks.

Some posters have mentioned carbon monoxide. This is very unlikely as air-conditioners are electric not gas, unless there was a fire somewhere behind the air-condition but then there should also be smoke, and carbon monixde makes one sleepy rather than violently sick

Legionnairs once in every few years breaks-out somewhere and is a potentially lethal virus that can trap it's self in dirty air-conditioning units. However, the problem wouldn't just dissapear but would become a growing and continuing problem not just for guests in a room but also for cleaning staff and others.

Eating puffer fish causes muscle paralysis including the heart and lungs. It can also start with severe stomach upsets and cramps, however, there's not usually any in between. If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead. Also, probably unlikely to for sale in Chiang Mai albeit once it was found on a market stall in some off beat Thai city a few years ago.

Other possibilities are a heavy dose of pesticides, many of which are odourless these days or some other chemicals such as the ones used for lethal injections. However, cyanide remains the easiest to buy.

What about excessive MSG ?

I am not excessive!!!!!

( And you'd have to eat about several kilos or more of it!!!!! not reallly)

MSG is basically a chemical which tricks the brain, any amount is probably not a good idea if you want to keep a clear head

No it doesn't trick the brain, it's a naturally occurring ingredient in many foods and it has been shown to be safe. But in any event to go from your assertion, which is untrue, to one that suggests that it might be the cause of these sad deaths is just living in cloud cuckoo land

I agree, the 4 plastic plugs is a waste of time, might as well just leave it sitting on the floor and save the damage that would be done levering off the wall with a decent crow bar.

4 plastic plugs are (let me say this slowly for you) E x p a n d i n g r a w p l u g s. With screw bolts inside they E X P A N D are strong enough to resist attack from an opportunist thai or farang.

With a HEAVY pry bar, which in conjunction with a sledgehammer you'd have to destroy the wall itself. Now you've just made noise noise and more noise.

What breezes about on an internet forum and what really cuts it in real life are two different things.

But when it comes to the crunch it doesn't go down like that, so the internet keyboard know-it-alls keep dreaming their illusions and the other people keep things solid and realistic rather than bleating about it, we do it and show it up.

You can't be serious, this is a joke right?

You offer about 1 " ( 25 mm) rawlplugs into a typical house wall made of cavity brick and claim you need a crowbar to prise it off? Do you have fairies at the bottom of your garden too??

I've gone down the same route, but have a safe weighing i don't know what ( four men found it difficult to lift to instal) internal steel protection and an alarm system. more expensive, but I suspect safer

You can''t cheapskate on security.

These deaths are very likely caused by cyanide.

The cases in Chiang Mai are very similar to what happened in Phi Phi two years ago when four people also died and a few people fell very sick but recovered. They all stayed at the same guest house. Like this time, the police said that the deaths were a co-incidence and the guest house remains open with the same owner today. The autopsey was inconclusive but referred to a possibility of a food poison or other toxin. The police unofficially said they drank moonlight (although not together) somewhere however one of the victims didn't drink according to her boyfriend.

At Phi Phi there was a waste water treatment being expanded by the guest house owners to serve Phi Phi and one way to sterilize the new equipment before use is to coat it with a chemical agent containing cyanide.

Cyanide in tiny doeses causes severe food poisoning like symptoms and violent cramps. In higher does it's fatal with seizure of respitary and heart muscles. It's very easy to buy chemical compounds containing cyanide, especially bags of industrial cleaners imported (probably illegally) from China via the north of Thailand. Cyanide is almost odourless and tasteless.

The only food poison that could kill quickly is clostiduim botulinum which is found in damaged cans. However, botulinum would not kill two people almost simultaneously. Botulinum would also not be found on bbq port of chicken from outside however dirty while from cans would be a widespread problem not confined to the 5th floor of one hotel. E-coli is another potentially fatal pathagen but death is not common in healthy adults and patients would be sick for several days or even a couple of weeks.

Some posters have mentioned carbon monoxide. This is very unlikely as air-conditioners are electric not gas, unless there was a fire somewhere behind the air-condition but then there should also be smoke, and carbon monixde makes one sleepy rather than violently sick

Legionnairs once in every few years breaks-out somewhere and is a potentially lethal virus that can trap it's self in dirty air-conditioning units. However, the problem wouldn't just dissapear but would become a growing and continuing problem not just for guests in a room but also for cleaning staff and others.

Eating puffer fish causes muscle paralysis including the heart and lungs. It can also start with severe stomach upsets and cramps, however, there's not usually any in between. If you eat the contaminated mean, you're dead. Also, probably unlikely to for sale in Chiang Mai albeit once it was found on a market stall in some off beat Thai city a few years ago.

Other possibilities are a heavy dose of pesticides, many of which are odourless these days or some other chemicals such as the ones used for lethal injections. However, cyanide remains the easiest to buy.

What about excessive MSG ?

I am not excessive!!!!!

( And you'd have to eat about several kilos or more of it!!!!! not reallly)

Some years ago I tried many of the banks in the centre, no luck. I got one in BKK bank in Bo Sang

An alternative, tho' less secure, is a PO box at the Post office near Wat Pra Sing or wararot. Depends how valuable the items are

I have not commented in this thread because I wanted to see what the conclusions of the cultures and tests. The findings do make sense to me. Coxsackieviruses are part of the genus enterovirus.The enteroviruses are made up of 5 subgenera which include the coxsakieviruses, the echoviruses and one virus that should cause people to pay attention, the poliovirus. Coxsackievirus A should be familiar to people that read the papers since it is associated with hand, foot and mouth disease, of which there have been outbreaks of in Thailand. The reported symptoms all are compatible with the suggestion of an enterovirus. The finding of myocarditis as well as the reports of apparent disorientation all point to an enterovirus. As well, the viruses have different impact on people. Some people might just have what appears to be a common stomach upset or a cold, while it kills others.

Here's the part that concerns me. The manner in which the virus spread. Enteroviruses are spread by human contact with surfaces contaminated with the the secretions from an infected person. You know how the cruise ships can get hit with a norovirus outbreak causing passengers to fall ill and require the ship to be thoroughly decontaminated? I believe the same situation is occurring here. More importantly, some of the carriers of the enteroviruses are asymptomatic, meaning they do not show any symptoms, but they function as a carrier spreading the virus wherever they go. Wherever the cough, whatever they touch, whenever they poop, they leave the enterovirus behind. The bugger can survive for days on a surface. The best way of preventing transmission is hand washing.

My expectation of how this is going to be handled. Staff at the suspect hotel may be tested to see if someone is a carrier. This testing will not be made public due to patient confidentiality and more importantly to avoid panic. I think Chiang Mai has its own version of a Typhoid Mary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this virus typically only produces mild symptoms. The prospect of killing ? 4 ? people in a short time is low is it not?

A coincidence.

Interesting documentary on History channel the other day titled "Race and Intelligence".

Saw the show and the one glaring fact is that intelligence grows with the need for it to grow.

This means that when a community progresses, so must their intelligence. If you hold down a community, lets say by using financial oppression, then the intelligence does not need to grow.

Humans are born with the largest developed brain of all animals, according to the relative size of their body. This brain is not completely wired up, and needs stimulation to become the best it can be. Although there are physiological restraints caused genetically, this does not account for the huge disparity found in this country. It is my belief that this disparity is caused by the fact that so many people here in Thailand live well below any poverty line across the world, and as such do not have the stimulation needed to develop their brain to it's fullest potential. Can this problem be fixed?

I am interested in any intelligent comments, please post.

Maybe not poverty, more the lack of teaching problem solving and the culture of 'respect for elders', not challenging and avoiding the truth out of 'respect'

The information is confidential. No reason to fill it in, the information will not be shared with other departments.

So there are people who actually believe the government when they say things like that? I'm amazed. I wouldnt believe the UK government (or any government for that matter) if they told me that Tuesday comes after Monday.

The computer systems in the UK have been a mess for many years. I think even if they wanted to they couldn't connect

The information is confidential. No reason to fill it in, the information will not be shared with other departments. The link is here

Nothing in life is a coincidence. We write off chance meetings as coincidence. Things are meant to happen and there is a reason for everything, good or bad.

You can't be serious!

Slightly confused? 'it took a healthy girl longer to die than a 47 year old with health issues?" Can you explain?

Do you have any thoughts on possible ( very generalised) causes?

I recently flew with Gulf Air to BKK then Thai to Chiang Mai.

They coshare booking etc. The bags came off in BKK and had to be reloaded in the domestic terminal. I had 35 kilos!

They allow up to 25 free, I got away with not paying anything saying, but i had been allowed it in the UK!

A previous time I was charged 5 kilos excess on a 35 kilo bag. The cost from BKK to CM was 300 baht ( £6.00 ), ($10) so don't worry too much

good luck!

Why are they only warning Thais? Do Farangs not matter or do we already know all we need to about food hygiene?

Warm food is a disaster,a breeding ground, he should have said hot food- above 60oC

Not sure where you live, but here in Chiang Mai the local Apple dealer recommended a disc recovery business in BKK. Unfortunately I don't have that number. but i would think your local Apple agent might suggest someone. Also in CM in Pantip Plaza there is a shop that claims to recover from faulty discs.

I don't think it matters if it is a Mac or PC.

Apple in CM is 'Maczone' tel 053 224 0589

Good luck

There's a good shop in Bo Sang, left at the lights from the old Sankamphaeng road, about 5 shops down. They have a great big show room further down in a soi off the road to Doi Saket.You'll never find that without asking directions from the shop in the main road! Lots of furniture and I think they make most of it. There are at least two furniture shops close together in the main street so try to find the right one. Sorry I cant be more explicit, I can't read Thai and therefore can't give you the name.

Just wondering? could it be air con? remember Legionnaires disease? from badly maintained air conditioners? Speculation, I'm sorry, but it's the sort of link there might be if there is any. And of course it does not have to be the legionella bacterium it might be an exotic airborne Thai bug. But as WTK says, I'd stay away from the place until more is known ( that might take a long time)

It could not be Legionnaires disease - the symptoms would be totally different - more like very resistant pneumonia.

The way the couple was found looks more like a "silent killer" - something like carbon monoxide poisoning.

- quote wikipedia " The main manifestations of poisoning develop in the organ systems most dependent on oxygen use, the central nervous system and the heart.The initial symptoms of acute carbon monoxide poisoning include headache, nausea, malaise, and fatigue.These symptoms are often mistaken for a virus such as influenza or other illnesses such as food poisoning or gastroenteritis. ^unquote

^{.....which would explain the "food poisoning" first suspected in the 3 victims from New Zealand and also the heart problems they developed of which one of them died.}

It would be interesting to know if the NZ girls and the British couple had the same room.

Yes I agree, ( I did not mean to suggest that it was Legionalla, just using it as an example). If the poor people had the same room it would strongly suggest a source, either microbial or chemical in the room, that would then mean either the water supply or an airborne source. The source could be either microbial or chemical. Airborne would seem more likely as it seems the english coule were unsuspecting and seem to have died at the same time . But let's leave it to the 'experts' ! ( and cross our fingers!) Shouldn't be difficult to pin point.

Just wondering? could it be air con? remember Legionnaires disease? from badly maintained air conditioners? Speculation, I'm sorry, but it's the sort of link there might be if there is any. And of course it does not have to be the legionella bacterium it might be an exotic airborne Thai bug. But as WTK says, I'd stay away from the place until more is known ( that might take a long time)

Just an update! Life is OK! I went to the Honda dealer on the superhighway, just past Makro and the road to Sankamphaeng. One of the sales ladies speaks good English: great service a test drive, she even came out to the house so that my wife ( Thai) and I could place an order! Just as it should be. The only downside is the 3 1/2 month waiting time! UGH!