thaibeachlovers

Savers, are just like the Money Lenders from Biblical times, all me, me. They are not worrying about the wolf at the door, they just want more money.

I am going to be clear about this. 1) People are losing their jobs, Families are losing their homes, People can;t sleep at night 2) In my view savers can get stuffed !

Posted by: John Spindler | March 27, 2009 at 09:39 PM

"Savers can get stuffed" eh Paul Howgate? It is because of irresponsible borrowing, by individuals as well as banks, that has led us to this point. Savers are not the ones who were leading us down this road, borrowers are. They are the ones who are all "me me me" - they're so desperate to have things NOW that instead of saving for things they borrow and then complain when they can't pay the loan back.

And now the irresponsible are being rewarded while the responsible are being punished.

But that's ok Paul, you can't insult us much more than the government and the BoE already have.

Posted by: Glenn Little | March 30, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I agree with paul howgate. the savers label everyone with a big mortgage as "irresponsible". Its the saver mostly baby boomers and pensioners who have the best pension schemes...house prices trebled...and the ease of the 50's and 60's that have left young working people with no security. Then they go and buy houses from us to "rent back" pure greed ...you live on your pension grandad and spend your savings unless you think youll live to 150!

Posted by: john | March 30, 2009 at 01:22 PM

Paul Howgate did not post the 'savers can get stuffed !' comment it was John Spindler who then seems to back himself up on March 30, 01:22.

People are losing jobs, homes even with these low interest rates do you not even consider they could be part of the problem. The issue is the lack of lending not the rate at which money is lent. More than ever banks rely on savers to raise funds, you may regret it if they decide to stuff the savers as the savers money will go elsewhere.

Posted by: d_pono | April 01, 2009 at 10:09 AM

The " Holy Savers" had a 15 year bull mkt, savings bonds and 1 year fixes at 8 and 10 % which was an ubsustainable and feckless level of return, most as has been said had the benefit of 200 % plus rises in their house values, low interest rates on their mortgages leading to them being by pure luck alone in the happy situation of zero liabilities, well funded pension pots and an outlook that compared to the generations either side of them appears gold plated.

They are of course the Baby Boomers/Thatchermen who still believe that they are entitled to ALL of the good times, but NONE of the downside.

Let them work out HOW they became "Holy Savers" before they continue thier whinging about their current returns.

Nobody gets "Upside" only, just be thankful you are where you are and not losing your house,employment and hope with 2 young kids and a wife to support.

Posted by: Paul Arkle | April 01, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Paul Arkle, I would be interested where you seen a 10% return on savings, in 2008 when we seen the odd 7% account (so only 5.6 net). Borrowers forget they are borrowing someones hard earned savings. Many savers are the young people who were priced out of the housing market, so are we expected to accept high tax bills and lend to you for free! live in the real world, you borrowed it, pay up. I can just withdraw my savings and then no-one can borrow them - what can you do about your huge debts?

Posted by: Colin | April 25, 2009 at 01:25 PM

The market will sort things out, if the government will only stop meddling with property price levels to keep them artificially high. No one wants people to 'lose their homes' - but many borrowed unsustainably high amounts they could never have serviced, in order to make a fast profit. Now they want the taxpayer to fund the difference between what they could have afforded and what they've taken on: and the banks have to pay for the added debt as they aren't allowed to repossess even the most fraudulent mortgage applicant. This isn't a fight between savers and borrowers, but between the reckless over-borrowers and the borrowers who borrowed within their realistic limits, who - with savers - are now subsidising the others. Mortgage levels haven't been this low for ages, for heaven's sake. What more do homeowners want? People still opaid their mortgages when interst rates went up to 14%.

Posted by: JohnAnt | April 27, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Something no one seems to mention is the fact that only a third of homeowner/borrowers are getting the benefit of the lower mortgage interest rate. Others already committed to fixed rate mortgages have not seen the rates come down.

Also the would be house buyers are unable to buy because their saving for a deposit is ever lengthening due to the low savings interest rate and the difficulty in getting the various establishments to give them a loan.

So, praise the savers who are keeping their money with these establishments in order for it to be loaned out to those who need it. The banks are not very forthcoming with the money they have received to bail them out of the losses THEY have made. Lay the blame where it is due.

Posted by: CAB | May 04, 2009 at 12:28 AM

God bless them that lowered the interest rates all round the world. For too long now people who worked only for their own roof over their heads and food to eat are able to save a little of their wages instead of giving all to greedy selfish borrowers in unwarranted high interest rates. God bless this recession. I AND MY THREE GROWN UP DAUGHTERS ARE SAVING 2000 POUNDS PER MONTH COLLECTIVELY IN MORTGAGE PAYMENTS.And long may this recession live on.

Posted by: Costas stavrinou | May 06, 2009 at 09:54 AM

We are all concerned with what the rates will do in the future but lets put things in perspective:- if you have money to save at the moment then you are lucky! If you are saving money on the interest rates at the moment then you are lucky! We all blame each other but it's a pendulum! Are savers really trying to tell me that they have never borrowed money in their lifetime? And had they still got lending tell me would they not want the saving of the interest rates in this current market? Lets just all be grateful if we have houses, jobs or money to live at the moment! In time the pendulum will swing the other way and the benefits will be passed onto the savers once again in due cause - lets just hope that everyone will benefit from the future movements of the governments in the years to come!

Posted by: Rob | May 27, 2009 at 02:57 PM

If this and previous Govts gave a decent pension ( Wasnt it Thatcher who removed the link between pensions and earnings ?) we wouldn't have to rely on interest from our savings to have a resonable retirement without scrimping and doing without and the money that is tied up to recieve this interest would be freed up. I would love to spend my savings but realise the consequences of having to rely on a meagre state income for the rest of my life.

I was never unemployed, have never claimed benefit and my state pension was earned not given.

Posted by: redtoon1892 | June 04, 2009 at 03:28 PM

Some interesting points made and raised. Given that interest rates are virtually at 0% it is not a case of if they will be raised but a case of when. Currently, new buyers are taking out loans to raise the deposit for their houses- in the region of 32,000 pounds. These loasn are not at the preferential mortgage rate of interest but far higher. When interest rates do go North, and they will at some point in the future, you can bet your bottom dollar that many will find it difficult to meet their monthly payments. It will not be pretty and I can only hope the government of the day will do all they can to cushion the blow in someway rather than force people out of their homes and onto the streets.

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Intersting points above.

However, to the poster who said savers can get stuffed, you should ask where the funds people borrow come from ( savers )!

I would also like to say that if someone "borrows" beyond their ability to pay, they have no one to blame but themselves for their problems.

I was able to see that the "bubble" was unsustainable, so everyone else should have been able to see it too.

It all comes down to GREED, and now the greedy people are getting their just desserts ( except for the filthy banker scum who have been saved by their "comrades", our so called government ).

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.

I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

So where does the money come from?

And where does the money come from for the enhanced education you are suggesting?

The armed services do not want conscripts. And even if they did where does the money come from to cover that cost?

I'm surprised you take a daydream seriously!

However;

If Britain accepted that they are no longer a "world power" and got out of all those overseas "adventures" they could probably afford it easily. Realising that a new Polaris system is a waste of money would be a step in the right direction. It would also help if they did something about the illegal immigrants, and stopped paying benefits and NHS treatment for people that shouldn't receive them. They found a few zillion easily enough to buy their mates in the banks out of the poo.

I never said "enhanced" education. Just finishing secondary school would be a good thing.

I also never said anything about the armed services. National service can take many forms. The only requirement would be that it instill discipline in the feral youth that today terrorises Britain ( they certainly scare the sh*t out of me when I'm unfortunate enough to be in their proximity ).

While you may not agree that Singapore is a top place to live, they make EVERYONE do national service, or at least they did when I lived there, and they don't seem to have problems with feral youth, nor do they have a problem with dole bludgers, and for a country that has no natural resources, everyone seems to have an excellent standard of living. Perhaps if Britain didn't have the old class attitudes that they know better than anyone else, they might be able to learn something from other countries.

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I think you are the one daydreaming.

The Uk (Britain) gave up thinking it was a world power years ago ( around Suez) We did not go into Iraq ourselves but piggy-backed on America. For the wrong reasons in my view as we had no evidence of wmd and there was no UN mandate. But I reached that conclusion - rightly or wrongly - without emotion.

By using the word "adventures" you are showing your emotions are overriding your thought processes.

Illegal immigrants by definition are outside the radar so do not receive benefits or NHS treatment. They may be working here illegally but that is another matter. They should be deported and the system should be tightened but to say they receive benefits is not only inaccurate it shows muddled thinking.

Bank bail outs and QE have been handled badly ( as the imf are now commenting) but i suspect you would have been complaining vociferously if they had not done so and your bank had collapsed with your savings. lost. Had you thought about that?

I said enhanced education not university or tertiary education. I was taking your point "a reasonable level of education, qualifying at some sort of occupation" - any enhancement from the present position which you clearly fiind inadequate would cost money.

I took national service to mean conscription which I think is what you meant otherwise you would have said community or social service. You also refer now to the singapore model which is of course conscription.

Of course I was daydreaming!

I said they should stop paying benefits and NHS treatments for persons that should not receive them, not illegal immigrants. As someone who works in the NHS I see people getting really expensive non emergency operations when they have not contributed one penny of NHI ( though they live legally in the UK ). That happens all the time, and that's just in my hospital!

My money would not have been lost, as all deposits under 40,000 quid are secured by the government. However, this could have been done without giving money to the very bankers that caused the problem. In fact, I think they should have let all the dodgy banks such as RBS go bankrupt.

Isn't one of the primary functions of government to educate the youth? Of course the present situation is unacceptable. I'd happily pay more tax if it meant properly educated citizens.

I said that the persons wanting the money would have to participate in some type of national ( or community ) service to qualify. Nothing mentioned about compulsion. If you want the money, you have to volunteer.

How to save the UK economy.

There are 20M people in the labour force over 50. Give these people 1 Million pound to take early retirement. Out of that money they must:

1 Have a house built. This has builders gainfully employed

2 Buy a British built car, again people gainfully employed

3 1 Weeks holiday in the Uk

4 Spend 50K on Booze or tobacco. This puts money into the treasury.

Problem solved.

Excellent idea. Just one small problem - where does the £20 trillion come from to pay for this ??

Good point.

My solution would be much the same, except the money would be given to people after they reached adulthood, and they could repay it over their lifetime.

It would however be dependent on them achieving a reasonable level of education, qualifying at some sort of occupation, and paticipating in some type of national service.

No cash would be given, of course.

Of course, if they refused to work, they would lose it all.

So where does the money come from?

And where does the money come from for the enhanced education you are suggesting?

The armed services do not want conscripts. And even if they did where does the money come from to cover that cost?

I'm surprised you take a daydream seriously!

However;

If Britain accepted that they are no longer a "world power" and got out of all those overseas "adventures" they could probably afford it easily. Realising that a new Polaris system is a waste of money would be a step in the right direction. It would also help if they did something about the illegal immigrants, and stopped paying benefits and NHS treatment for people that shouldn't receive them. They found a few zillion easily enough to buy their mates in the banks out of the poo.

I never said "enhanced" education. Just finishing secondary school would be a good thing.

I also never said anything about the armed services. National service can take many forms. The only requirement would be that it instill discipline in the feral youth that today terrorises Britain ( they certainly scare the sh*t out of me when I'm unfortunate enough to be in their proximity ).

While you may not agree that Singapore is a top place to live, they make EVERYONE do national service, or at least they did when I lived there, and they don't seem to have problems with feral youth, nor do they have a problem with dole bludgers, and for a country that has no natural resources, everyone seems to have an excellent standard of living. Perhaps if Britain didn't have the old class attitudes that they know better than anyone else, they might be able to learn something from other countries.

Since we're dreaming, I might add a point or two:

Anyone who is overweight must correct the problem within x months or suffer financial penalties thus relieving the strain on the NHS plus making people look more appealing and generally improving the outlook of the general population;

Those convicted of murder, assault or sex crimes also lose their entitlement with their monies going to the Police Authority budget - those convicted would be incarcerated on the Isle of White for life;

Illegal immigrants would be required to work off their passage home , plus any associated costs - the cost of repatriation to be worked off, under supervision (on the Isle of White) , beforehand;

Government employees caught fiddling expenses or abusing perks and/or their position to be relocated to live a life of their choosing, on the Isle of White.

I'd vote for you, except i'd take away most the police budget as i fcuken hate them.

Agreed, and lots of them would also be spending time on the Isle of White!

It is almost unbelievable that these so-called experts are totally divorced from reality : one does not have to be a epidemiologist (which I am) to understand that the request for Government "to tell people to avoid crowded places in order to slow down the increase in the H1N1 virus' fatality and infection rates" is patently rubbish , when one wonders how people will get to work, how children will get to school, how people will go to their markets??

What? close all factories, businesses, schools, transport systems. Switch all air conditioners. Close the Health centres and hospitals. Just in my little town with big schools the Sorng Theos arrive and leave with as many as 20 on a pickup, on the light truck as many as 40 children CRAMMED together.

Where do these idiots come from??? They might have read of Canute.

Don't call people idiots just because you are one yourself. Any sensible person would realise that the advice is to avoid crowded places whenever possible. Sensible advice.

You seem to have missed the point!

Just how would you advise people to get to work if they don't have a car, so as to avoid crowds? Perhaps you don't use public transport, but most do.

How would you advise people at work to avoid contact with one another; NBC suit perhaps?

How to save the UK economy.

There are 20M people in the labour force over 50. Give these people 1 Million pound to take early retirement. Out of that money they must:

1 Have a house built. This has builders gainfully employed

2 Buy a British built car, again people gainfully employed

3 1 Weeks holiday in the Uk

4 Spend 50K on Booze or tobacco. This puts money into the treasury.

Problem solved.

Excellent idea. Just one small problem - where does the £20 trillion come from to pay for this ??

Good point.

My solution would be much the same, except the money would be given to people after they reached adulthood, and they could repay it over their lifetime.

It would however be dependent on them achieving a reasonable level of education, qualifying at some sort of occupation, and paticipating in some type of national service.

No cash would be given, of course.

Of course, if they refused to work, they would lose it all.

Here's what UBS thinks about Sterling exchange rates:

"We think currency markets are not pricing in the risks that sterling faces over the next year," said Mansoor Mohi-uddin, chief currency strategist at UBS, in a research note.

"Even without an outright crisis the conduct of economic policy will remain highly challenging over the next twelve months as the next election looms and politicians face persistently high rates of unemployment. In terms of fiscal policy, Britain has less room for manoeuvre than is commonly believed."

UBS recommends selling the pound after its rally in the second quarter.

Risks to the value of sterling include planned large rises in net public debt, to close to 80pc of GDP in the coming five years, and the possibility of a hung Parliament after the next general election, which would weaken the government of the day's ability to tighten fiscal policy enough to stave off a currency crisis.

However, Mr Mohi-uddin said Britain is in a much better position than it was in 1976, when the pound collapsed and Britain ultimately had to be rescued by the International Monetary Fund. That is because the Bank of England is independent, so monetary policy is less at risk from political interference.

"To avoid a sequel, Britain must tighten fiscal policy when the economy recovers and raise interest rates," he said.

The pound could return to the lows of the end of 2008 and start of 2009, which could be the "new 'fair values'" of sterling, if the Government fails to control fiscal policy as it did in the mid-1970s.

IF our man is correct that means fair value is GBP/USD at 1.46 and GBP/THB at 51, IF!

They MUST raise interests rates. What has been forgotten in all the furore is that millions depend on interest on savings to live. Currently I receive 0% on my bank account. I, and I'm sure most, will at the first opportunity move my money overseas to a country that believes in rewarding it's savers. It's not the bad old days when I had to get permission to take more than a small amount out of the country ( don't know if that applies to the UK, but did in my home country ). The government seems to believe that the only solution is to give huge amounts of the taxpayer's money to the banks, no strings attached, but forgets that without jobs the tax receipts go down, and unemployment payments go up.

The other thing I take issue with, is that the government seems to think the only long term solution is to make people borrow to buy rubbish again, which is exactly what got us into the poo in the first place.

The present situation is the perfect opportunity to reorganise things so that consumption is not the only indication of prosperity, but of course the present bunch of incompetents are too thick to understand the alternatives. I doubt any of them would still have a job in the private sector after their bungling.

Well said. A lot of the problem is the British dole system which allows 3 generations of unemployed in the English north, while there were plenty of jobs in the south.

Another problem that people don't want to discuss, is paying young girls to keep their bastards. That alone costs the taxpayer millions a year, if not billions. IMO, the only thing the taxpayer should pay for is a free abortion. If they don't accept that, they should either give the child up for adoption, or pay for it themselves.

Plus there is the trend to paying for longer maternity leave ( having a child is not a disability, and if people choose to have a child, they should be prepared to pay for it themselves, not expect me to pay for them to take time off at my expense ). Now they are even discussing giving fathers paternity leave as well.

They should also stop giving IVF on the NHS. Infertility is not a disease!

Pity none of the political parties have enough guts to advocate cuts in that sort of benefit.

I know, just bring in gas chambers.

Ha ha, indeed.

However, it's precicely that sort of attitude that has spawned a generation of bludgers who think that they have some sort of RIGHT to state assistance, while they are capable of getting a job, if they were prepared to get out of bed and go look for one.

Remember that it's people who actually get up everyday, go to work and pay taxes that provide the money for the bludgers, not some magic money tree.

If the UK ever had a money tree, it was North Sea oil, and they pi**ed that away.

For all it's imperfections, Thailand has yet to go down the dole budger route, and good on them for not doing so.

Just like to let you know that on my way to work this morning I was listening to the radio in the car (local raidio station) On the news it is reported that local business say they are now getting out of the recession and business looks good, so someone please explain that?? I have stated in a previous post how we have more than doubled our work force in the last 3 months. My personal opinion is that alot of expats from the UK would love to see the Country they were born in go under if I'm wrong I'm sure you will let me know

Ok great...

Being a bricklayer, i can get my very large and extensive contacts book out with excitement and confidence of obtaining some work then.....?

Shall i hold my breath

Talk is cheap and <deleted> on radios talking shit dont pay the bills....

Work is there if you look for it!!! We are setting on at the minute for packers not bricklayers but a job is a job , I would clean public toilets has long as I had a wage coming in and I am a accountant!!! Some people either want work or not. You have to look for it it ain't going to come knocking on your door!!

So please get off you high horse and look for a bloody job instead of wasting your time on the internet while you could be looking.

Well said. A lot of the problem is the British dole system which allows 3 generations of unemployed in the English north, while there were plenty of jobs in the south.

Another problem that people don't want to discuss, is paying young girls to keep their bastards. That alone costs the taxpayer millions a year, if not billions. IMO, the only thing the taxpayer should pay for is a free abortion. If they don't accept that, they should either give the child up for adoption, or pay for it themselves.

Plus there is the trend to paying for longer maternity leave ( having a child is not a disability, and if people choose to have a child, they should be prepared to pay for it themselves, not expect me to pay for them to take time off at my expense ). Now they are even discussing giving fathers paternity leave as well.

They should also stop giving IVF on the NHS. Infertility is not a disease!

Pity none of the political parties have enough guts to advocate cuts in that sort of benefit.

Pensions are screwed, which is going to screw the retired so they claim social security which in turn goes to screw that system. The fundamental haven't added up for years and the writing was on the wall well before this crisis.

The fact is that you cannot have people spending so long in education and so long in retirement which leaves only a limited time in the productive working environment. People are not going to start dying younger nor are they going to start going to work younger, so the only two options are either to tax them more or make them work longer, in terms of raising the retirement age. The answer is simple, higher taxes and a higher retirement age.

Indeed.

Tens of thousands of Brits who own a second- or retirement home overseas, whether on Europe's mainland, Thailand or elsewhere are in deep trouble. In Spain thousands of Brits don't know how to cope with the situation, especially also because real estate is way down and there are no buyers.

The Spanish coast and islands are filled with apartments and villas for sale, totaling more than a million houses.

Personally I know of a couple who had to sell their villa. Asking price was € 580.000.-. They sold for € 300K

And that's just one example; most stories aren't even known or told...

LaoPo

As someone who has worked in the NHS for 10 years, I have always wondered how "tens of thousands" of Brits are able to afford to pay so much for SECOND homes abroad. I can barely afford my holidays in Thailand, let alone pay for a house. I couldn't even buy a first home in the UK. Just what did these people do to have so much money? Sure beats me.

My other observation is that the credit problems of the Brits are entirely their own fault. No one forced them to borrow beyond their ability to repay, no one forced them to take out ridiculous mortgages. I could see that it was all going to end in tears years ago, so why couldn't they? ( I know the answer, but better not write it here )

It's ironic that the man who was primarily responsible for getting the UK into the poo in the first place now has the gall to claim that only he can sort the problem!

To see how it should have been done, just look to Norway, which is sitting pretty now, but they didn't waste all their oil money on dodgy computer systems and illegal wars!

Whatever the circumstances this is nothing but an unmitigated deeply sad tragedy. Blame and calls of incompetence add nothing so why bother to make them. The only thing to express here is profound regret that one so young was taken, regardless of how.

Deepest sympathy to the family who will face weeks and months of soul searching and loss.

Because blames and calls of incompetence may save another childs life.I would want someone held responsible,as i am sure would you,if it was someone you loved.

I went to Pattaya Park 2-3 years ago, tough not the water part of the complex. The place was badly run. The advertisement I saw was deceptive (actually I wrote to a couple of Pattaya publications asking them not to publish the ad, but they contine putting ads of the Park). The buffet was a total rip-off. Staffs who operated the cable ride from the top of the tower were unfriendly (probably because they were poorly paid or treated). I was so pissed off that I will never visit the place again. I guess this death case has a lot to do with the Park itself.

I agree about the cable ride. The man putting on the harness was very rude and rough, plus the access to the drop off was poorly designed.

As for the OP, I haven't read all the pages, but it seems to me that the boy was found in the engine room, not in the pump mechanism, and the access cover was left off. Perhaps he went exploring and either got injured in exposed machinery, or overcome by fumes.

Frankly, it doesn't surprise me with the poor state of maintenance in most Thai facilities. Even on the Pattaya beach walkway there is a large unguarded hole with a cavity under just waiting for some unsuspecting tourist to fall through and be severely injured. There just does not seem to be the interest in maintenance after something is built, here.

I could give dozens of examples of death traps around Thailand, so till attitudes on management side improve, such tragedies will continue.

TAT organises shopping contest to boost tourism

BANGKOK: -- The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) on Wednesday launched Shopping Challenge 2009, a shopping contest, at leading department stores in Bangkok to boost Thai tourism.

So "Thai tourism" has been reduced to shopping sprees?

Why not actually make Thailand a worthwhile place to visit? You know,

remove the "red-light" districts in Bangkok, Phuket, Pattaya, Chiang Mai and in every nook and cranny of this country (one can't enjoy night life without encountering professionals on the prowl at least a few times. yes, this includes "nice" places)

promoting real Thai culture (without the "only 500 baht" shouting)

cleaning up the country (eg. beaches, the sea, klongs and air)

educating taxi drivers, guides etc not to try and rip off everyone at the first opportunity

inform operators of popular attractions to reduce prices of common items (eg. water at 50 baht is a no-no)

remove dual pricing and the way-over-the-top prices and rates tourists encounter daily

offer "Made in Thailand" good at human prices (not soap at 400 baht a bar)

just to name a few...

This might actually put Thailand in a better light and build a solid foundation for long term growth.

However, knowing Thailand and Thais, todays payoff is more important than tomorrows potential.

I notice that you didn't include Hat Yai in your list. Is that because it's only farang so called "red light" districts that concern you, and not all the Asian ones?

Also, if your wish came true the the resultant immediate unemployment of untold thousands of Thais would cause such an enormous increase in the crime rate that there would be almost no farang tourists arriving at all.

Lastly, the "prowlers" that so upset you are not operating in the so called "red light districts" ( unless you go to only those areas for your "night life" ), but are free lance, so I fail to see what closing Patpong, Nana, Soi Cowboy et al would do other than cause an enormous increase in the number of your "prowlers".

For those of us that remember Sukhumvit before early closing, your idea is without merit.

Incidentally, in an economic downturn, what would you expect all the "ex red light area" workers to do; go home and commit suicide so that you can enjoy your "night life" activities free from disturbance by the poorest in Thai society who are trying to make a living without resorting to theft?

Yep, The tourists are voting with their feet (and money) there are more than Pattaya out there, offering better value

I know everyone has said they dont need the tourists, but without them and their money, places will shut down, small bars, small shops will probably be the first, the larger places will try and weather it, but a lot depends on the Thai government to sort out things

It beats me why there arent better hotel deals out there

Some may get their wish for a quieter Pattaya, but what will happen to any shops, stores and bars, I assume you all eat and drink, but then maybe you like an hours drive to go shopping (its happened to villages in the UK, it could happen in Pattaya, but it would take a lot longer than it takes a village in the UK)

Enough with the melodrama.

Tourists are not voting with their feet (and money) against Pattaya. They're just staying at home because they cannot afford to travel or don't wish to spend their dwindling savings travelling. The drop of many currencies is adding to the problem because the baht has remained strong while other currencies have plummeted.

You talk about better deals than Pattaya. Pattaya is a unique tourist destination. There's no other places to go that are anything like Pattaya. If you think there are, then please be specific.

Some people have been touting Bali, but Bali doesn't hold a candle to Pattaya. It's just plain boring. I've been there twice and would never go back no matter how good a deal they can cut.

You say there aren't better hotel deals in Pattaya. Where are you? Have you been looking? I just heard from an Aussie friend yesterday that one hotel offered him a 70% discount for a month's stay.

..and...If you're into it... the girls are exceptionally friendly right now and fresher than usual.

You are spot on, except I don't know anything about Bali.

If they want tourists back, lower the ex rate of the baht. "Free visas" are not going to affect anything. I haven't used a visa for nearly 10 years, and been twice a year. I'm sure most Pattaya visitors are like me.

Make sure your prospective wife is at least Mid-so if not Hi-so. Lo-so wives are often 'butterflies' and jump a lot away from home. My wife is luckily Hi-so and after marriage found out was well-off with family money in Thailand. Check your prospective wife's motives. If she agrees to visit New Zealand before you have been to Thailand and met her family - then beware

I have no idea what "so" she is, but has her own house and visited Germany before.

Got wiped out in the economic crash, if that makes any difference.

When I asked if she wanted to live in another country she said no, so I guess that makes her a "safe" prospect.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm also no newbie to Pattaya.

Just arrived, and it's certainly quieter than I've ever seen it. However, there have been too many bars for a lot of years now, and they need to get back to a number where those still operating are again profitable. I just feel sorry for the girls, who are the ones suffering.

In some act of insanity, the plod have driven the freelancers off the beach walk, which is now pretty deserted at night. I just hope the plod soon realise that no customers in the bars/ on the beach translates to no tea money for them! At the present, I doubt any bar is making enough to be handing over the usual wads of cash.

As for the new Central- deserted. The Avenues is hanging on by a thread. Went to the movies there. 3 customers! That wouldn't even pay for the electricity.

Away from family tourist areas which are pretty dead, Pattaya is booming. Soi Buakaow is busy as ever. IMO, the mongers/ long term expats have read the writing on the wall, and moved to where they are more welcome.

Soi Buakaow is busy?

The place is dead as the rest of Pattaya!

When i walk there at night, i can count the customers in the bars on 1 hand!

OK, I was there in the daytime and it was really busy, but maybe at night time it's different. Saw plenty of guys in the bars then, too. Perhaps they all have early nights.

Agree that Pattaya itself is quiet, but Naklua was quite busy the other evening, lots of customers in the bars.

Also, I was down Walking Street last night, and it's just as busy as in April.

I agree with those that say there will be little demand for travel to Hua Hin. They should extend it to combine with the fast cats that go from near Chumpon to Tao, Phangan and Samui. That would be a service that might succeed.

The boat service I'm looking for is one from Pattaya to Sihanoukville. That would be a goer, I reckon.

Walking around Pattaya, one has to wonder if there exists a maintenance budget for the infrastructure.

1. The beach walkway is a disgrace. It has not been maintained for years, and now part of the pavement is collapsing into a hole ( if someone falls in and breaks their leg, will City Hall pay them compensation? ).

2. The rather attractive stone and tile walkway on the Naklua beachfront is collapsing. Many of the pavement tiles are sinking into holes. The stone walls are being undermined by the sea, and will soon collapse completely, unless repaired soon.

3. The whole Naklua beachfront is filthy and covered with litter. There is obviously no cleaner at work there. The only tidy areas are those maintained by the deck chair operators.

Incidentally, one of the hawker operations has encroached on the beach with a very ugly plywood constuction.

4. The walkway that links Pattaya Beach to Naklua Beach has collapsed years ago, and not been repaired.

5. The walkway from Bali Hai to the lighthouse is another disgrace. This could be an excellent facility if it was actually looked after.

6. All the pavements around Pattaya are in disrepair.

The common thing with all the above is that they were constructed before the present administration, which seems to be doing absolutely nothing to preseve any of them. Too busy getting mega projects built ( and we all know why that is! ) and chasing working girls away, perhaps!

If there is such a thing as a Pattaya maintenance budget, I can only guess where it's really going!!!

FINO

I didnt come to Pattaya to visit the brothels or visit any of the sex trade, I didnt come to get a Thai bride, I came for a holiday

NOT everyone that comes to Pattaya comes for a sex show, a beer bar, or a Thai bride, some visit because its different from home, they come to see the sights, and that includes walking street (do you know what it lkooks like to a kid aged 6, its all bright lights and girls, she thought it was great, the working girls just wanted to talk to her,) they are human and not just 'meat' for old farts who couldnt make it in their own country

You must have a very jaundiced view of Pattaya,

I've had plenty of great holidays there, and havent tasted the so called 'delights' of the brothels (its not compulsory you know)

There we go again, one eyed view of men looking for Thai ladies, but of course you have discussed their motives with all western men with nice Thai wives, no doubt.

Well, news for you; some of us DON"T WANT domineering, judgemental, unfeminine western women that we meet at "home". Some of us want to meet feminine ladies that don't think men are just for working to provide house and nice car for them to take in the divorce. Some of us want to meet ladies that don't think sex is a dirty word.

( Before you put me down for my viewpoint, I work in a female dominated occupation and have many female friends, I just wouldn't want to marry any of them ).

Please give direction to brothels, as you are so knowledgeable in all things to do with Pattaya. I have yet to see one.

better ask Fino or some other poster in here, bout the brothels, I've never looked or needed one

Just look at most of the Ads in TV, they are for Thai Brides or girl friends, eve34n over here in the UK, there are Ads for Thai Brides and Thai girl friends, I would say that they are pandering to the market

I cant speak for other blokes wives, but my wife isnt domineering, she is definately feminine, and not judgemental (if she was we would never have been to Thailand or Pattya) and she dont think sex is a dirty word either

I DO know of 3 blokes who married Thai girls, they bought them back to the UK, the marriage's never lasted and they lost an awful lot from the expeirience, but I'm not saying all Thai/Brit marriges end that way, I daresay most are happy relationships and only the bad ones end up in the news

Well, you must be one of the fortunate ones. Considering the western divorce rate is around the 50% rate, most are not so lucky.

Just about everyone I know is divorced, including myself ( lost everything to the greedy bi-ch ) and my family.

Re the guys bringing Thai wives to the UK, the problem is that they bring them out of their own environment, to where they become infected with western PC ideas and that leads to the usual problems in the relationship, which is no longer as in Thailand.

As I said, I work with western women, so don't have a problem with them as people, but would never marry one again.

My Thai GF is the most feminine woman I ever met, but is no doormat. She has had a tough life, and is stronger than most people I know, but is still a lovely person.

You might think that all us men looking for Thai wives are just old farts who can't make it in our own country, but try and realise we are all people just trying to find some happiness in life.

..................................................

No.

A brothel is an establishment where the girls are lined up in front of the customer and he picks one to have sex with. There is no conversation prior to selection, and the girl has no "right of refusal".

Even in the goldfish massage parlours, there is a right of refusal to have sex on the part of the masseuse ( at least in the ones I've been in ).

But you knew that, didn't you!

I suggest you look up the word in a dictionary, or if you have already, some different dictionaries.

A brothel is an establishment where sex for money is available, simple as that.

I'm not sure what side of the arguement you're on there, but your reply supports my supposition that there are no ( visible ) brothels in Pattaya. As you say, a brothel is for sex, and that is all that's available there, but bars and massage parlours have other purposes. Although some punters may go to them with the intention of obtaining sex, others may not. ergo, bars/ massage parlours are not brothels.

Well, to answer the OP, I've been here a week and Pattaya is far from dead.

Yes, it's quiet, but that's always the case in low season. Perhaps there are less people than usual, or maybe it's just that there are too many alternatives available now, so customers are spread thinner. I'm sure there were only about 50% of the present number of bars in the mid 90s, so the same number of punters as now would appear to be more.

The places doing really badly are the new expensive places that have gone up in the past 5 or so years.

Most of the cheaper places are doing OK. When I arrived, I couldn't get a room on the first 2 floors of my hotel, as they were all full.

Soi Buakaow seemed really busy.

Walking Street is just as busy as back in April.

If you are a Kiwi no problem. If not and you want to emigrate there I don't think it is difficult.

It really depends on your age and qualifications.

I went to live there for 5 years taking my Thai wife and Thai Children. I had UK passport.

My Thai wife loved it and did not want to leave. But it was a little too cold for me. We got Kiwi

passports after living there for two years and we eventually used these to live in Oz. But wife hated there

and wanted to go back to New Zealand. We compromised and came back to Thailand, but I now wish we had never left

NZ. But we are too old to move back again.

Thanks Anthony.

Yes, I have the NZ passport.

Did you have any hassles with immigration re your wife being Thai, and did she have a Thai passport?

I'd rather live in Thailand with my GF ( I too don't like the cold ), whom I intend to marry, but lack of money may necessitate a move to NZ.

FINO

I didnt come to Pattaya to visit the brothels or visit any of the sex trade, I didnt come to get a Thai bride, I came for a holiday

NOT everyone that comes to Pattaya comes for a sex show, a beer bar, or a Thai bride, some visit because its different from home, they come to see the sights, and that includes walking street (do you know what it lkooks like to a kid aged 6, its all bright lights and girls, she thought it was great, the working girls just wanted to talk to her,) they are human and not just 'meat' for old farts who couldnt make it in their own country

You must have a very jaundiced view of Pattaya,

I've had plenty of great holidays there, and havent tasted the so called 'delights' of the brothels (its not compulsory you know)

There we go again, one eyed view of men looking for Thai ladies, but of course you have discussed their motives with all western men with nice Thai wives, no doubt.

Well, news for you; some of us DON"T WANT domineering, judgemental, unfeminine western women that we meet at "home". Some of us want to meet feminine ladies that don't think men are just for working to provide house and nice car for them to take in the divorce. Some of us want to meet ladies that don't think sex is a dirty word.

( Before you put me down for my viewpoint, I work in a female dominated occupation and have many female friends, I just wouldn't want to marry any of them ).

Please give direction to brothels, as you are so knowledgeable in all things to do with Pattaya. I have yet to see one.

You know, there are a few posts here that I want to reply to, but seeing this I forgot about the others.........................

"Please give direction to brothels, as you are so knowledgeable in all things to do with Pattaya. I have yet to see one."

You have GOT to be joking.

No.

A brothel is an establishment where the girls are lined up in front of the customer and he picks one to have sex with. There is no conversation prior to selection, and the girl has no "right of refusal".

Even in the goldfish massage parlours, there is a right of refusal to have sex on the part of the masseuse ( at least in the ones I've been in ).

But you knew that, didn't you!

And you Nurse why are you coming to Pattaya ? Facination for poor girls from Isaan probably

Actually I work in BPH, I am one of the workers who tries to prevent the spread on STD's, HIV etc.

Of course, there are so many Farangs who come to Thailand to engage sexually with diseased women or men, ( this I find incredible, with the education westerners have, they still risk their health ) it is a hard job. And I also come from Isaan. So do many staff at major hospitals, hey guess what, so do many of the Immigration Police come from Isaan, you know, the ones that stamp your passport as you come and go to Thailand.

fino, I suggest you go to a large city in Isaan, stand on a street corner and challenge anybody to beat your bank account balance, you would probably last 5 seconds before being humiliated.

Not all people from Isaan are poor, same as not all Farangs are fat.

The question that SHOULD be asked, is why so many western men come to SEA for female "company". It surely indicates a serious disfunction in western society that such a huge number of men pay so much just to experience a few encounters with women in a foreign land.

Perhaps western governments should be encouraging properly regulated prostitution in their own countries, rather than criminalizing men who wish to follow the perfectly natural urge for sex, without having to go through the process of either courting and marrying, with all the obvious disadvantages in present western society, or having to go to a bar and spend large amounts of cash buying drinks in the attempt to get some woman to have sex with him ( with no guarantees ).

Incidentally, a large proportion of western men with Thai girls in Pattaya are young and quite good looking. In a normal society, they wouldn't have any trouble getting a GF in their own country, so where has it all gone wrong?

FINO

I didnt come to Pattaya to visit the brothels or visit any of the sex trade, I didnt come to get a Thai bride, I came for a holiday

NOT everyone that comes to Pattaya comes for a sex show, a beer bar, or a Thai bride, some visit because its different from home, they come to see the sights, and that includes walking street (do you know what it lkooks like to a kid aged 6, its all bright lights and girls, she thought it was great, the working girls just wanted to talk to her,) they are human and not just 'meat' for old farts who couldnt make it in their own country

You must have a very jaundiced view of Pattaya,

I've had plenty of great holidays there, and havent tasted the so called 'delights' of the brothels (its not compulsory you know)

There we go again, one eyed view of men looking for Thai ladies, but of course you have discussed their motives with all western men with nice Thai wives, no doubt.

Well, news for you; some of us DON"T WANT domineering, judgemental, unfeminine western women that we meet at "home". Some of us want to meet feminine ladies that don't think men are just for working to provide house and nice car for them to take in the divorce. Some of us want to meet ladies that don't think sex is a dirty word.

( Before you put me down for my viewpoint, I work in a female dominated occupation and have many female friends, I just wouldn't want to marry any of them ).

Please give direction to brothels, as you are so knowledgeable in all things to do with Pattaya. I have yet to see one.

I took the family to Pattaya last October and I'm sure the vendors are worse than ever.

If we tried to have a nice family day on the beach, the constant pestering by the vendors really does destroy a good day. You politely say "No thankyou" or "Mai ow krap", but you really get sick of it 50 times an hour. Especially when you have told them you are not interested and then they focus on the 3 year old if they are selling something that appeals to children. Or they just stand there and keep on and on trying to sell to you.

I thought that vendors were not allowed on the beach, and the people in charge really should do something about it. You can't have an enjoyable day on the beach because of these people. I go on holiday to have a good time and don't want to be constantly annoyed and badgered by the vendors.

In many places around Pattaya, you are not even free from these people when trying to eat. Even when inside, lottery, dvd and trinket sellers are trying to sell you something. It's really annoying when trying to eat and keep getting things that you don't want shoved in your face.

Go out for a beer and guess what? After saying "Mai OW Krap" for the 100th time, you try to ignore them and keep your back to them. What is it nowadays with this POKING? Not a gentle prod with a finger, but a series of hard pokes, trying to get your attention, even though they are fully aware that you have noticed them, but are ignoring them.

Is this problem worse than it used to be or is it that my tolerance level has gone down?

The fact is that people go on holiday to let their hair down or relax. The vendors are just too much. Their tactics are obviously to be as annoying as possible so that in the end you will either buy something or give them some money to go away. With fewer punters there now it must be really intolerable.

If you can't handle beach vendors bugging you, then Pattaya is just not your thing. I seriously doubt this is going to change.

Some people can handle it, some can't, but it's here to stay.

It's defnitely not just a Pattaya thing. Try tourist beaches in the Philippines...same, same. I've had vendors follow me for half and hour in Bali after I told them to ***off.

The Pattaya vendors are nothing on the ba****s in Sri Lanka!