Datsun240Z

Good, so when the wifes are of the family, we farangs hold a BBQ with beer party

Mob meeting o boy !

Husband is below family dog on the scale of priority.

Wow, I feel so much better now

NOT

I had a hot water shower added to the outside shower at my in-laws house a few years ago, and it seems they do not use it unless it is really cold out. They use a concrete water tank that holds about 1/2 cu meterof water. This morning when I took a shower there had to be at least 500 mosquitos in the room. They, falsely believe I think, that they will use more water/electricity/money by using the pressure shower.

How do I go about converting them without causing a problem??????

You can't ! Anyhow, I think that placing a big tank on top of the roof and letting it get warm naturally by the sun ( enough in thailand ) , and then a pipeline to a shower somewhere around the house, works fine! Pressure automatically and it's good warm , just also put an automatic filler pipeline to the reservoir on the roof.

I was at Suvarnabhumi a few days ago. Looking at the place as a tourist - first impressions are good. Clear, easy to read departures board - giving details of which row to use to check in. It goes downhill after that ...

* How do I get from check-in to passport control / immigration ? No signs - just guess / follow crowd. It's a bit harsh in the beginning, once you know your fine.

* No smiles from immigration. No 'did you have a pleasant stay, please come back soon.' It's with both comming in an out, guess they can't smile anymore.

* Once through immigration, a real battle to find a seat to sit down, apart from the few food shops. True

* Next to nothing apart from high end shopping - which was at least 30% dearer than Bangkok shops and markets - and this is Duty Free ??? Yes, I miss the cheap food joints to

* Even Singapore's LCCT was better than Suvarnabhumi ... free internet at Changi since it was opened.

Calm down it will be better.

Peter

I find it amazing that Americans are even on the list at all. According to the eurosnobs, 99.9% of Americans don't even have a passport and there are no airplanes with enough power to lift their fat bodies overseas anyway.

555555

Myself i'm terrified by the Thai police, if they pull a stunt on you your F****ed. So far i haven't had any problems with them at all and they seem not too bad. Still it does scare me they wield a lot of power.

Everybody should!

I've seen a lot of big mouths here on TV, throughout the years, and a lot of Farang Judges screaming: he/she is guilty...put them in prison, but ANYBODY could land in a Thai jail, innocent!

Let me tell a story here which could happen to everybody:

About 25 years ago I had been working in BKK for a week with a very well known factory and known by every single taxi/tuk tuk driver in BKK. On my way to Hong Kong (via very old Don Muang) I was stopped at the passport control.

The guy looked very nasty at me, called a few other brown chaps and they took me...through all kinds of corridors and finally into a room with 4 or 5 guys in brown, with a fan at the ceiling, no aircon (funny I remembered that) and grilled me for 2 hours about every step I made in BKK since my arrival, 5 days earlier, why, how long, with whom, which factory, which hotel - show receipt of payment, where did you eat..... etc. etc. etc.

I was scared to death and the first thought that crossed my mind was: "someone put drugs in my suitcase" because that was the only thing that could have possibly happened, why would they otherwise stop and grill me, being a normal businessman ? I didn't buy anything on the airport, nor any souvenirs in town, nothing!

Not one word WHY they stopped me for the entire 2 hours.

It was hot and I was completely soaked and becoming more and more frightened. After a long time the leading officer shouted at me:

YOU!!!.............no hep entry stamp in passport. HOW COME ??

How the <removed> would I know ?

In those days the passport boys were sitting behind a kind of wooden very high desk (them sitting a lot lower on the other side) who took your passport, study it for a long time and than handed it back to you, closed. Impossible to see what they were doing.

The particular guy in my case didn't stamp my passport with an entry stamp and now they took me to the arrival hall again, passport control, had to stand in line again, with 2 brown guys next to me (...) and had my passport stamped, but not before he changed the date on the stamp, back to the arrival day

That was all but if could have ended a lot worse for me.

The only thing you can do is stay polite at all times and cooperate as much as possible.

That doesn't change my believe: one should be afraid for the police.

LaoPo

That's a big hassle for a small thing LaoPo ! I find even today the immigration officer is doing what they want. Last time, I got about 8 days to short on my 60 day tourist stamp, I noticed later, but to late.

It's apparent that some posters do not understand law nor understand that evidence in a court of law is used by the prosecution to prove their case.

It should not be in a proper functioning legal system, although often is the case in Thailand, up to the accused to prove their innocence. It is up to the prosecution to build a case, and prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty.

That's how it works. They have not been able to do so in this case to my knowledge.

That the couple were not apprehended while leaving the store with the item, that the cctv footage is inconclusive, that the couple were apprehended in the food court in different clothing, that the couple were not found in possession of the item, and many other factors, ensure the prosecution may not have had sufficient evidence to get a prosecution.

Very plausible scenario, hence the subsequent extortion and lack of due process.

Quite simple and any decent lawyer would have p*ssed this case if the prosecutors were even foolish enough to take it to court.

None of us knows how a court would interpret the evidence because none of us is looking at what a court would see. A lot would depend on how the prosecution presents it's case and how it attacked by the defence. None of us can assess the demenour of the witnesses and form an impression of their truthfulness. We don't even have all the facts that might be presented to a court.

For example it appears they were interviewed by police, but we do not know whether or not they were shown the CCTV footage. If so did they admit or deny it was them? If they did admit it was them the CCTV footage would be strong evidence.

The rest is circumstantial.

Sitting at different tables - not usual behaviour

Change of clothing - the exact details of this need further explanation. Did, for example, they have the clothing shown on the CCTV footage in their possession.

Ingram leaving the restaurant instead of going to see what the police wanted with his wife - very odd behaviour.

The stolen property being found along his line of flight.

We simply do not have all the details of the circumstantial eveidence. How this comes out in court could have would have a bearing on the outcome. A conviction is quite possible and so is an aquittal. There would certainly appear to be a prima facie case.

Most of us, myself included, draw our conclusions on less evidence than a court would have, which is just as well as we don't have to decide whether they are guilty or not. At this point in time I am satisfied they did it, but if I got more information I would be quite prepared to change my view. Even if aqitted by a court this does not mean they did no do it. It means the prosecution could not prove it's case.

I give my views based on whether they did or did not do it not whether they are legally guilty or not. Since this is not going to court that will never be known.

The guy obviously hasn't seen a court in action. The prosecution simply say that you stole a wallet, then you have to prove that you didn't. Then it gets nasty for you as KP will find a dozen witnesses who saw you put the wallet in your bag. The witnesses are told what to say before they go into court, they will lie as they work for KP and their jobs depend upon it.

So, you won't have a legal leg to stand on, you will be found guilty, whether you did it or not, and to top things off, your sentence will indeed be much harsher for wasting the courts time.

Also, courts in Thailand do not use juries, for small cases, just a single judge, and he is literally your jury, judge and executioner all rolled into one. You don't stand a chance.

Can you point out a country that does use juries in "small" cases?

Certainly Australia, UK and the US do not.

The Netherlands for instance.

It's apparent that some posters do not understand law nor understand that evidence in a court of law is used by the prosecution to prove their case.

It should not be in a proper functioning legal system, although often is the case in Thailand, up to the accused to prove their innocence. It is up to the prosecution to build a case, and prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty.

That's how it works. They have not been able to do so in this case to my knowledge.

That the couple were not apprehended while leaving the store with the item, that the cctv footage is inconclusive, that the couple were apprehended in the food court in different clothing, that the couple were not found in possession of the item, and many other factors, ensure the prosecution may not have had sufficient evidence to get a prosecution.

Very plausible scenario, hence the subsequent extortion and lack of due process.

Quite simple and any decent lawyer would have p*ssed this case if the prosecutors were even foolish enough to take it to court.

None of us knows how a court would interpret the evidence because none of us is looking at what a court would see. A lot would depend on how the prosecution presents it's case and how it attacked by the defence. None of us can assess the demenour of the witnesses and form an impression of their truthfulness. We don't even have all the facts that might be presented to a court.

For example it appears they were interviewed by police, but we do not know whether or not they were shown the CCTV footage. If so did they admit or deny it was them? If they did admit it was them the CCTV footage would be strong evidence.

The rest is circumstantial.

Sitting at different tables - not usual behaviour

Change of clothing - the exact details of this need further explanation. Did, for example, they have the clothing shown on the CCTV footage in their possession.

Ingram leaving the restaurant instead of going to see what the police wanted with his wife - very odd behaviour.

The stolen property being found along his line of flight.

We simply do not have all the details of the circumstantial eveidence. How this comes out in court could have would have a bearing on the outcome. A conviction is quite possible and so is an aquittal. There would certainly appear to be a prima facie case.

Most of us, myself included, draw our conclusions on less evidence than a court would have, which is just as well as we don't have to decide whether they are guilty or not. At this point in time I am satisfied they did it, but if I got more information I would be quite prepared to change my view. Even if aqitted by a court this does not mean they did no do it. It means the prosecution could not prove it's case.

I give my views based on whether they did or did not do it not whether they are legally guilty or not. Since this is not going to court that will never be known.

The guy obviously hasn't seen a court in action. The prosecution simply say that you stole a wallet, then you have to prove that you didn't. Then it gets nasty for you as KP will find a dozen witnesses who saw you put the wallet in your bag. The witnesses are told what to say before they go into court, they will lie as they work for KP and their jobs depend upon it.

So, you won't have a legal leg to stand on, you will be found guilty, whether you did it or not, and to top things off, your sentence will indeed be much harsher for wasting the courts time.

Also, courts in Thailand do not use juries, for small cases, just a single judge, and he is literally your jury, judge and executioner all rolled into one. You don't stand a chance.

I'm not curious if "the judge" would be part of the plan to, with under the table money

Problems will come when the stuff arrives Thailand, there's always the Tea money and stuff missing. I suggest you go for the air freight.

Just visit the Bang Kwan prison, it's free.

Good post, HYENA, you and I think alike when it comes to Thai customs. I mostly eat in little Thai cafes where you sit on plastic stool at metal tables. My Thai meal costs me about 30 baht and I can be a big spender and give them 40 baht. Because I eat in the same few places on a regular basis they give me larger portions than they give other people.

Same same, gotta love the local eating joints

Devil's advocate for a good percentage (not all) of ankle biter issues I read here:

There are many complaints I read where some don't seem to understand Thai customs and the Thai way. It's not farangland so TV's and loud music are appropriate for a Thai restaurant in Thailand (they think noise brings customers...or turn it up so the cook can hear, too) and standing waiting for the tip isn't out of place because 1. Likely some may have run off which would devastate their 150 baht a day pay and 2. What's the secret? We're pulling out our money and giving it to them anyway (they likely are thinking this way) so why the big secret if they're going to be given the tip by us to them anyway, why walk away like some big secret...open the wallet, pay the bill and the tip while they stand there. why walk twice to get it? Why walk twice for drinks then the food? They're not used to the inefficiencies of "politeness" we perceive as classy. I got over that.

These people have absolutely no European history so placing our values on them and our expectations to their service is unfair to them. I hear common repeated complaints which tells me there must be a reason they all do it that way or they just plain don't know only to be chewed out or rejected by a customer (only some here) for something that may have been just fine in their culture.

The first post and this "I am the customer, treat me like royalty" attitude is unique to us. My wife and I get bad service at one place, we'll skip it for a couple weeks and try again but also before eating ask about the size of the portions, do they have this, that, etc. My wife snoops around the kitchen (near it) and asks questions before we sit since it's a crapshoot and anyone can open a restaurant so these people just plain don't know or may not care or maybe in their culture it's enough they're offering sustenance to people; who knows? I do know in many places thanking someone is a no-no while other places it's compulsory. I remember thanking someone and getting laughed at because they were doing their duty and they didn't work for me (like a 7-11...can't recall the country)....all a frame of mind.

Back to hovering...my guess statistically a hoverer will get a larger tip because they're standing right there. 150 a day, I would too. I'm no king. Maybe a "good worker" is perceived to be "attentive" and they think they're treating you like a king being by your side at your call. It is only our culture that "needs space". Remember, Thais don't get claustrophobic and don't do much of the privacy thing (and many farang live alone, kick kids/parents out of the house, etc). These are "herd animals" we're loner animals :-)

Eating separate or as soon as the food is ready: Apparently people who are thought to have traveled a long distance, it is polite to not hesitate to begin eating regardless of the order or when the "other dish" is ready, etc. My guess this custom was from the old days where people would trek for days not eating until their destination so food and sustenance was on the priority list. I thought that was fascinating and I started eating as soon as my food arrived from there out.

I have to laugh at the never going back to buy cigarettes because of a whopping 2 baht ripoff. Mai pen rai! I get ripped off daily but if it's minimal, I don't sweat it. Sometimes I'll smile at them and say "I know what you just did" and they sheepishly correct it and never do it again. I allowed face saving so theyll treat me well next time; come on...2 baht? They're friendly people and smiling when stating your concerns always works like a charm. Interview briefly the restaurant while looking at the menu at the door before sitting (we always do this now) asking polite questions (my wife is the Thai food connoisseur so she's lung mat about her tom macoom).

I'd venture to say they do their best and if it's not good enough, smile and eat it anyway! Loved the fur burger story! My guess is he'd think it insane to waste the food and accidents happen (look where some of these people come from...they're not like us...they're trying to move up and the wait staff are going to be the least informed, kindly (or not) ignorant and just need a job. The waiter warming his thumb in the mashed potatoes for his rheumatism may have been OK at his house ( I wouldn't be happy) but some of these nice folk REALLY ARE very very ill informed and ignorant. They just plain don't know our standards; some are still in the medieval era up north and surely medieval people didn't sweat hair or fingers in the food (except high Europe). I'd hate it too but think from their view...the ignorance I learned is deep and low paying people will be the wait staff who have more of it.

I love it all, even the bad service and the mini scams because it's likely been this way forever. it's Thailand! Order fresh juice and get it out of a carton? BFD! drink it and say "that wasn't fresh..".smile and tell them you caught them! They'll get it. You got juice, no one died and you got it cheaper than farangland. That's happened to me, too but i laughed when I drank it (hotel breakfast). I'm definitely NOT taking it out on some underpaid waiter!

Want bad service where they thrown down the plate and don't care what you asked for? Try some places in China. Thailand is a dream....this is Asia, gotta change your expectations completely and have fun.

No, but you can do to the manager. So if all folks would say nothing, than nothing would change...

Thailand will eventually become modernized, it may take another 100 years, who knows....

Relax guys, where's not here to bash each other.

@ Huggybear: Yes I can do that.

No worries, Nattymatt and I have some history here, at some point we're going to have a beer at RCA and Nattymatt is suppose to introduce me to his katoey.

O.K. OP, then you are on. You can work "under the radar" as a computer tech until you have the money to set up a company, get yourself a work permit under "computer consultant". Advertise with local posters and maybe the local paper. For an example look at the Phuket Gazette's classifieds now, there is a guy advertising the same type of services. Guaranteed he has no work permit.

Seems a good idea. Then only the language problem is here then again, how they explain me the problem....

Face facts ; if the law aint changes, not much more falang is gonna come for work/living, only for retire and holiday.

The current law is made 99% Thai first, it's just one big discrimination!

Which law are you referring to? We have no problem getting WP and visa extensions for our expats. The truth of the matter is the expat content for any company, Foregin or Thai is a purely economic one and the WP and visa rules have no impact on that decision at all.

I should note that is coming from one who has worked in Thailand for a foreign company over 5 years now and the company has been here since 1984. Not once in that time has the WP and visa rules impacted a single decision on expats.

TH

Bingo

Face facts ; if the law aint changes, not much more falang is gonna come for work/living, only for retire and holiday. The current law is made 99% Thai first, it's just one big discrimination!

HAHA You can call it discrimination but I would see myself strange if I thinking of moving to EU and complain that their law is made even 88% European first. At first, I may not even get the VISA...

Now, I don't know what your nationality is, but this is done to the fact that it not becomes a 3RD WORLD country, by applying strict visa regulations, not every scumbag can walk into the country, got it? That's why nobody has a gun here, and that's why it's hel_l a lot safer, than your average neighbour coming down the block and shooting a gun in the air, nor pointing it at his wifes head . Now I did not make up those rules and I certainly do not like it to, but I can see some logical points.

i really don't understand that someone can live in a Muslim country, even in Malaysia where human rights are a mockery.

Oh dear, spoken like a person with a sad case of Islamophobia. Obvioulsy many people can and do live in a Muslim country by choice. Sure there are human rights issues in Malaysia, same like there are in Thailand (rohingya, burmese, hmong) and even, dare I say it, in USA (guantanamo) and Europe (gypsies, muslim minority). So I wonder what is really driving your inability to understand how someone can live in a muslim country, becasue it surely isn't human rights alone.

Muslims are not Bad people!

That's right, but some groups are causing great problems all around the world Most major terrorist attacks where done by muslims. Get your facts sonny! 9/11 where muslims to.

Having been here 12 years, now with a family of three kids, I don't think I will be packing it in any time soon. There are many issues here. Security and general anti-foreigner laws and practices are probably the biggest issues for me. Many Thais are charming and many are not. Thais are xenophobic and that is hardly surprising given the society here and slew of laws and practices that discriminate against foreigners - the infection spreads down from the highest levels despite being contradictory to the Thai constitution which demands no discrimination. Strange since there is clear discrimination in law against Thai women and also against foreigners but anyway such is Thailand. One has to come to accept the Asian ways which are self-preservation and care of close family first before considerations for a partner. That seems to me the general way of things whether a Thai-Thai or Thai-Farang relationship - though most farangs have far more to lose from such behaviour given they are on average richer.

Thailand is not paradise but neither is it hel_l. It is not for everyone but if you can learn to live with its deficiencies, sense of insecurity and accept that you will always be second class to the Thais then life can be pleasant. There are plenty of reasons to go and plenty of reasons to stay and I am not so sure anywhere else would be much better - just different issues and problems. This is home to my three children and my wife so my plan is to stay and hope in some small way to make the country a better place in the future - of course I recognise that one day Thailand may not tolerate me here anymore family or not but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

The above statement is simply not correct.

This is part of the conditioning a Thai woman will inflict on her farang partner to justify the way she treats him.

So do you feel that in Thai culture a husband and father of her children is not considered "close family"?

What a ridiculous statement. I hear this said time and time again on this forum and it is starting to bother me.

I am married to a Thai woman and she considers me and our child her closest family members, probably because she loves me and not my bank balance. She is as close to her family as any normal Thai person

Perhaps YOU are unfortunate enough to be considered an outsider in your own family but please...speak for yourself.

Than you are lucky one, but livinginexile has some good point there, which is very true in general.

Plus of course, the embarrassment of knowing that anyone who marries a Thai woman will be thought of as marrying a hooker!

This image is now ruining my relationship with my Thai girlfriend, thanks to my discriminating parents. It was a disaster since I decided to took her to The Netherlands. I decided to keep it quite, can't fight my parents. I will work a while to get money, and get the heck out of here. Yes, it's nice to have an advanced economy here, but there's no love anymore. It's only greed here. What's life worth if you need 300k euro for a small house to buy, and even need a loan for the freaking car? Work yourself to death until 67 and hopefully " retire " happily.

I have a friend from holland he is 55 and married a Thai woman 3 years his junior.

She looks so much younger than her years that you would have to look at her passport to believe her age.

He used to frequent chatrooms before he was married and just at the mention that he had a thai girlfriend, gave rise to alsorts of comments. You sure it's not a ladyboy? May be ur gay and like them like that. Hey get her checked out she has most likely had more c...ks than you have had hot dinners. Or f...k off pedo crawl back under your stone.

This is the sort of thing that will destroy Thailand for all of those that do not really know her.

In some respects also ruin the lives of people who know and love her

what are you talking about my friend?

Lets hope so,I,ll be 46 by then and I,ve had enough already!By the way Datsun 240Z,when I were younger I owned a 280Z targa,one of the best cars I have ever had,the bond mobile has it was known.Very unpredictable going round bumpy wet corners though.Before the end of the world,whats your

thoughts on the shit handling.

I think you mean a 280ZX. Problem is with the suspension though!

It's a nice picture of a 280,but I think mine looked better in silver in the early 80's.Was a real puller then,I had no need to visit thailand in those days.

Hehe, I know many people make this mistake when they are older about the model. My dad also remembers only "240".

It's actually:

First gen ( S30 series ):

- 240Z

- 260Z

- 280Z

Second gen ( S130 series ):

- 280ZX ( you had this one )

Third gen ( Z31 series )

- 300ZX

and so on....

Looks alone - has to be Israeli guys - the women are beautiful too but the men, on the whole are gorgeous.Don't know about personality? Bina?

Can you explain this more? I found more woman like man from the " middle-east ".

Ohw and Datsun, you will probably agree with me that the men from Holland are the most handsome ones, right??? lol ........

Thai family bonds seems very strongh, this proofs it! Even her husband have to lay back for the family...

I agree with 240Z. My experience suggests when the rubber meets the road the wife's family comes first, we second. Of course not always, but often. This is good for the Thai wife, but frustrating and difficult for the farang husband.

Personally I would never accept being left out of one of (my) life's most exciting and memorable times: the birth of my child and family times together afterward. No way! If I couldn't go with them to Thailand, I would insist the birth take place in the U.S. Your wife married a farang, not a Thai! Her life changed then, everything is different now. Maybe she hasn't yet completely come to terms with that. Since you can't go, I hope your wife reconsiders and places more importance on your needs, not just her family's help. IMHO.

The very best of luck to you, your wife and future child. I hope whatever route you select works well for you, and a strong bond is maintained between the three of you.

But what will happen if the OP refuses to let her go to the family? I think this will cause problems, because Thai's tend to go over death bodies to accieve their goal! So maybe it's best to let her go for a while and the OP can have some rest to.

My mechanic said the yamahas are no good, and that for speed the kawasakis would be the best, and that an nsr is good if i want to sell it in 2 months....

That makes no sence at all, Yamaha has great bikes, R1 is shit to offcourse? Problem is they don't know much of this brand, so they say it's no good.

Some Thai people out here who know? Khrap

What's he supposed to do? Wait until the bullet comes through the window and then go look for the slug, find it if it's embedded in his wife's skull, dig it out with a knife, and then return it to the shooter with a nice smile and dutiful wai?

For us westerners not, for thai people YES