JimGant

I talked to a very helpfull someone at the consulate

The Thai Honorary Consulates are first class -- and it's apparent this is where you did busines. They're staffed with local folks, who, not too surprisingly, seem much more flexible to accomodate the needs of visitors (albeit, fellow citizens) to Thailand. As has been voiced here before, giving away the identity of these 'most accomodating consulates' might lead to crackdowns -- although, this has not yet apparently happened.

Anyway, congrats on your "O." Glad you went the "Honorary" way.

It is not clear to me what visa we have and what we are allowed to do with it.

Uh, out of curiosity, what did you say on your application to the Consulate? Presumably, it was more than "goin' to Thailand, need visa?" How did you know to send in $125 (the price of a multi-entry Non Imm visa)? Sounds like maybe Consulate advised you prior to submitting your application...........(?)

Just curious, as "O" visas usually require more than blind luck.

A visa to allow you to perform the extension process at immigration in Thailand should be issued IMO and believe the Consulates that do so are the ones following the rules.

Makes sense, since having to get a tourist visa, then converting to an "O" in Thailand doesn't make much sense for the retirement eligible.

Interesting that the Thai Embassy in DC, which updated its Webpage in Jan 2006, finally makes mention of 'retirement' as a valid reason for issuing a Non Imm O. I just wonder what they require for "proof of financial support" -- same as for an "O-A"?

LA Consulate, however, still doesn't mention 'retirement' as a reason for issuing a Non Imm O -- and they too updated their Website in Jan 2006........

And the Chicago Consulate says the following as a reason for issuing a Non Imm O:

VII. Retirement in Thailand (see also [O-A] Retirement Visas), the applicant must be at least 50 years old and must submit documents as follows :

* documentation showing proof of retirement

* bank statement or monthly/year income.

* a copy of the applicant’s criminal record from the local police department

* a certificate of health.

These documents must be certified by a Notary Public and certify true signature of the notary public by the Secretary of State.

Sounds identical to what's required for an O-A visa; after going thru all this bother, getting just an "O" when you could get an "O-A" would make no sense.

But, nice to think MFA is trying to smooth matters.

PTE,

You would thing Thai Immigration would be more than accomodating to charge you full fare for a "short" year in order to adjust to a new situation. I guess, however, "too complicated" trumps the "time value of money."

Maybe Thaksin should explain this concept to them...........

Get myself a one year multi entry Non-Im O in Penang based on retirement (picture, bank book & copy with more than 200k, over 50, passport)

Does Penang grant Non-Im Os based on "retirement?" Maybe so, but I've not seen anything official that has 'retirement' as a valid reason for issuing a Non-Im O. Some honorary Consulates, at least in the States, are fairly liberal in stretching rationale for granting Non Im Os; while others insist you get either an "OA," or a "tourist," as do the Embassy and 'real' Consulates.

Anyway, you're saying being over 50 and having "more than 200k" of, presumably, baht will do the trick in Penang?

how much I take will depend on NOT having any tax liability

How are you going to do that? There'll always be a Federal tax liability, unless you're in one of those new Roth 401(k)s. You can avoid State taxes, however, if you move to Thailand and relinquish your state residency.

And, i forgot the biggest eyesore and traffic mess that has existed for at least 7 yrs since i've been here.........Thapae road, where all the tourists get their first impression of CM.

Oh, come on. Now when you walk cross the sewage stream bridge, you can look thru newly-rusting artwork to view the turds below.

First, and foremost, your 401K will be fully taxable, whether you withdraw it now or in the future. Even if you move to Thailand, you will be required to file returns and pay any tax due. So, there is no advantage to either taking it now or waiting to some time in the future.

Well, there certainly is *one* advantage to not taking it out now: State income taxes (and California's marginal rate ain't the lowest).

Once you move to Thailand and file your last PY ('part year') tax form with California, what you then withdraw from your 401(k)s and IRAs is not subject to California income tax. This was a test case a few years back, when California went after former California residents who had moved to states without income tax. California lost in the Federal court.

All states are somewhat different in proving (or disproving) residency. But if you're really cutting all/most residential ties with the States, it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Oh, on our way thru Hawaii, we got Hawaiian drivers' licenses, using a friend's local address, as Virginia had pointed out that a driver's license was one form of proof that you hadn't abandoned the state. And there is an advantage to a US driver's license when you want to rent a car, or so we were told.

but you could open another account and transfer each month (but you will have to make a visit to do so).

Lop,

Is that because this type of bank account is firewalled from the other type of accounts you can open on Internet banking?

We have three bank accounts with Bangkok Bank that we can freely exchange between on the Internet (having opened Internet banking with Bkk Bank). Plus, we have permission to Internet transfer funds to other non-owned accounts.

I wonder why this wouldn't work when this special SSA account is involved.........?

sadly missed 2 big things from home - good cheese and especially pickles!

Rimping finally got Heinz Dill Pickles. The European pickles just never satisfied my taste buds.

Civilization at last.

Just to add to the cluster phuck:

Hi Mike,I know its been awhile,But didnt you get the MULTI entry OA like I did last Feb??

If so,you can still leave/return to Thailand before your "must be utilized before "date next month and get yet another 365 day"admitted until date" till Feb. 07 and thus buy more time before having to extend here in Thailand.

Harpmann,

Yeah, I do recall Mike got the multi-entry O-A, which is apparently why he has an "admitted until" date of Sept something -- i.e., after arriving here last winter, he apparently left and returned in Sept 2005, getting stamped back in for a new 365 days courtesy of his multi-entry O-A visa.

Now, during his ill-fated recent venture to Bangkok, he obtained a re-entry stamp from Immigration, which of course he would need should he leave and try to return *after*his O-A visa expires on Feb 8. And, as such, he would be admitted only up to his previous 'admitted until' date of Sept something.

However, if he leaves and returns before Feb 8, the Immigration official might just reach for the 365-day stamp upon seeing a valid multi-entry O-A visa. Then, when he/she sees the "re-entry stamp,'" valid only up to Sept, this is where the head scratching could begin, as two valid entry permits exist side by side.

Anyway, just one more curiosity to ponder, amongst the other Immigration quirks, while Mike sobers up.

And of course you asked the nice lady at Immigration as to whether or not your "proof of income" letter would still be good when you return in September?

Take DR PP's advise. Houston is a class operation -- friendly and helpful -- and flexible. Call them first and explain your situation -- particularly that you hold a Britiish passport. But that should not be a problem.

LA, as of a year ago, would NOT entertain O-A visas for anyone but US passport holders. So, forget them.

The full bank address and perhaps your full address and the SWIFT account number BBKBTHBK (although they can look that up).

For my Bangkok Bank account in Chiang Mai, I was told to just use the main bank's address (333 Silom Rd, Bangkok), plus account number (which, as pointed, out contains your branch information) and account name. Also, include the SWIFT, which is: BKKBTHBK for any and all Bangkok Bank branches. (Lop's typing finger must have slipped )

As I recall from previous posts from Richard, what's happening is nothing more than a SWIFT transfer from BB NY to BB Thailand. But since it's automatic, with a wire fee considerably less ($10?) than most of us pay, it's kinda neat. He still pays the 200-500bt charged by the receiving BB Thailand, just as we manually initiated wirers do. And there's still the 1 to 2 day transfer time involved. But, hey, if you want your full month's paycheck delivered to Thailand monthly, this seems as good as anything I've seen.

Personally, I send two "chunk" SWIFT wires per year, so the $35 wire fee gets amortized to around $6/mo, and the BB Thailand fees are less than half of what Richard will pay (I'll pay a max of 1000bt/yr -- he'll pay a minimum of 2400bt/yr). And a simple FAX initiates my transfer. But Richard's way seems to work fine for him.

Interesting that SS and VA allow direct deposit to Thailand -- but DFAS doesn't for military retired checks. Yes, a lot of military widows in foreign lands "forgetting" to inform Uncle Sam of their husband's death. But so too SS and VA widows........... I can't figure out how these agencies could have a better safeguard on such fraud than does the military(?) Must be something more to this than is apparent.......... Plus, it would seem just as easy to commit widow's fraud with direct deposit to a Stateside bank, complete with ATM card.

Eric,

If there's any chance you'll be doing multiple departures from Thailand this year, I'd spend an additional 2800 baht and get the multiple reentry stamp. Plus, you never know when you'll get that emergency "come home" call -- but when you do, it will be on a long weekend when Immigration is closed.

Oh, re your OA from Thai Embassy. Did they require notarization of the medical and police records? If so, how do they define "notarization?"

I'll ask again....

Has anyone out there recently renewed a retirement visa using only proof of income and no significant bank account in Thailand?

I have sufficient income and can get an embassy letter, but I only have about 30K baht in my Bangkok Bank account and do not have the means to deposit more at the moment.

Lop answered you on 12-12. See:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2997

(You must of forgotten to check the "enable email notification.")

Dutch,

Did you have a new letter from the Embassy re your income -- or was this the letter used in years prior for visa extension?

Richard,

As you might already know, DFAS has started a direct deposit into foreign bank accounts, beginning with England, France, and a few others of that ilk. Later, 35 more countries are to be added -- but not Thailand, nor any Asian countries that I recall. Strange.

How will you notify Bangkok Bank in NY to process a wire? Certainly they must have something in place to make sure it's really you that's requesting a wire transfer(?).

This is a nice time to go to the Mae Kuang dam. For the first time in my memory, the resevoir is overflowing down its spillway -- and they have the gate open at the top of the dam so you can drive to the *top* of the spillway, thus being able to view the waterfall from both top and bottom; plus a nice clear view of the mountains and resevoir, as the seasonal burning has not yet begun to obscure things.

But anyway, this section is about restaurants. So on your way to Mae Kuang on route 118 to Chiang Rai, turn left about half a mile past the Doi Saket exit -- it's the exit to Tao Gardens (and easy to miss, so if you begin to go uphill, you've missed it). The country road meanders along a waterway for several clicks, then passes an abandoned PTT gas station. Just around the left hand curve -- on your left hand side -- is Sorn's Cafe. A blackboard with his specialties marks the footbridge to his very-nicely adorned eatery. Plenty of parking on the roadside.

Nice menu -- Western and Thai. Sorn is Thai, but lived in San Francisco for a few decades, plus went to school in England prior to that. So, his input to his restaurant doesn't have the boring sameness that seems to hit many of the other eateries in the CM area.

But anyway, if you're out for a drive, the Mae Kuang dam and Sorn's Cafe make for a nice afternoon combination. (Ask Sorn how to get to the spillway if you're unsure.)

Oh, Sorn's is closed on Mondays, and, I believe, from 2 to 4 pm.

And all the time I thought it was due to the hot peppers..........

The following may be helpful as a rule-of-thumb, at least for those with US bank accounts.

Observation:

- A wire transfer uses the Telex exchange rate, while ATM/Debit (and Credit) cards use the Interbank Exchange Rate, a more favorable rate over the Telex rate by about .25% (.0025). HOWEVER, most ATM/Debit transactions charge 1% (which is what Visa/Mastercharge bills the issuing bank for using its network). Thus, the net exchange rate is .75% *more* favorable for wire transfers vs. ATM/Debit cash transfers to Thailand.

-- EXCEPT, of course, when you factor in the wire fees at both ends. In this situaion, ATM/Debit is superior -- up to a point.

(The following chart uses Bangkok Bank's wire fee, which is .25%, with a floor of 200 baht and a ceiling of 500 baht, or $5 to $12.50 using 40bt/$)

Wire Fee at US Bank vs. Breakeven Point over ATM/Debit (rounded):

$5/$1300

$10/$2000

$15/$3000

$20/$4000

$25/$5000

$30/$5600

$35/$6300

$40/$7000

$50/$8400

The above assumes a 1% Interbank network fee for ATM/Debit transactions. It does *not* include the $2 - $5 that many banks charge per ATM event, which would lower the breakeven point by about $150 per fee dollar charged.

So, if you can't send sufficient amounts to reach the breakeven point, it pays to use your ATM/Debit card, even if you're paying fees. This would apply to credit cards too, if it weren't for the fact that many now charge 3% fees for international transactions. In this case, the debit card is now superior to your credit card when making overseas purchases.

Anyhow, the above is a rehash, and of course doesn't cover all situations, to include 'more is better' when that 'more' is earning a nice return in your US money account.

This should reduce my transfer and conversion fees to about $10/month.

Richard, could you do a rehash -- I've gotten bogged-down following this thread.....

Namely:

1. How will you prompt BB NY to send your money to Thailand? Email, phone, letter --or will you have set up something to happen automatically?

2. How does BB NY send this money? I would guess SWIFT wire transfer, since it seems BB NY and BB Thailand, while cousins, seem to function as any US bank/non-US bank do when it comes to transfering money. (But this is where I'm *totlally* confused.)

3. Per above, what is the transfer fee (if not a SWIFT transfer, I guess it's $5.....Or even if it is a SWIFT..........)?

4. Could you breakout your "$10 per month?"

5. BB Thailand's website mentions its international partners, with, besides BB NY, Bank of New York and JP Morgan Chase in the US. Almost sounds like you can get the same deal(s) at any one of these three banks. Anyone have any thoughts/facts on this?

Oh, you're sure dollars are sent to Thailand for conversion there -- and not converted in NY before transfer?

They were able to do this 2+ months prior to their permitted to stay date and got an extension of 365 days in addition to the 2+ months.

Nice to know.

I guess the other side of the Immigration coin -- with its vagaries and inconsistencies -- is that such flexibility *has the potential* to be helpful. [but, even with a smile and a haircut, there's always the chance your Immigration Officer has just begun PMS...... ]

Just out of curiosity..........does anyone have experience..........?

If the situation had been discussed with Immigration in Thailand before leaving the country, how flexible are they in doing the renewal drill several weeks (month?) ahead of time?

(Doesn't help PTE, unfortunately.)

What about your structures usage tax which is 12.5% of the assessed annual rental value, as presumably there is a house on the property?

First and foremost is that this 'rental' agreement is a ploy around Thai ownership rules and is *not* an arms length business deal. In our case, the owner lives in the house, the head of our Moo Ban knows it (this, I believe, is where any usage tax would be paid), and I doubt he would ever push the issue (considering we just gave him a nice donation for the new Wat).

Having said that, are we correct in saying this is not a real commercial deal? I don't know. If push came to shove, I'd convert the lease to a usofructs.

Here's what's said about a structures usage tax:

It does not apply to a private residence lived in by the owner and his family. It does however apply to a property that is rented or let to a third party - or used by it's owners (even in part) for commercial purpose as say an office or a shop.

Obviously, we key on the 'lived in by owner,' and consider myself a spouse, not a 'third party.'