UKresonant

I see the health insurance issue being a major blocker for future options / time in Thailand. That the mandatory health insurance that is unlikely to provide actual cover is more than disappointing. Noting the Waiting period for a 90 day policy mentioned above is perhaps 120days and a 12 month policy perhaps is perhaps 180day / 6 months . I tried to get a Thai policy back in 2018 as a supplement to a quality 92 Day per trip, unlimited trips Travel insurance. The broker of a major provider said he could not Honestly sell me the policy under consideration that I would maybe slightly below or above the 180 day of 12 months, required to be in Thailand to have actual cover (that's when I was using a non-O ME). New to Thailand O-A Visa holders may think they are covered by the insurance and get a nasty shock if attempting to claim . Thailand seems to continually become incrementally less attractive via detail changes since the end of 2017. But if the customers keep wanting the product.... I had a quick skim over Qatar mandatory flat insurance, that gives a basic cover, that can be supplemented by private insurance provision, a nicer concept I think/ Sounds like another visa option to score of the list, if this covid-era requirement gets reintroduced at other locations, as I would be only using it for the 90 days not extending, (due to unavailability of non-O ME again)

Here is an extract from the UK remittance pages, I've not yet found the equivalent Thai RD page, but suspect it may be somewhat similar, in respect to you question..... "...Most remittances to the UK will be under the general rules but there are additional rules under which your foreign income and gains may be remitted to the UK. For example, you gift some of your foreign income or gains or something deriving from them to a person other than a relevant person - a gift recipient. It’s still possible for there to be a remittance of your foreign income or gains if the gift is used in such a way that it benefits a relevant person. Your money or property does not have to be physically imported from overseas for a remittance to occur. For example, it could be money you receive in the UK from another UK resident, in return for money or assets representing your foreign income and gains transferred to them abroad. 1.3 Relevant person A relevant person is: the individual themselves, that’s, the person to whom the foreign income and gains belong the individual’s spouse or civil partner, or people living together as if they’re spouses or civil partners the individual’s children or grandchildren under 18 years of age (this includes children or grandchildren of their spouse or civil partners).....

a) a gift to your wife perhaps, is the car under 20m ? Don't know! b) I was thinking that the scrutiny of the inbound funds was part of the transaction to purchase a foreign owned Condo. Doubtful on that one

No it's still in place... https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxv3eDJmpwbaMv8y0dCuqfbA5dVeb2Fz3w?si=gBWX09_NoYHVIVUO

I quite like this short mention on youtube of the Tax change "Tax Increases You Will NOT Like in 2024" No2 on his sequence.. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxFbvSFYfMPxlsFHlEldEudYJaCJR0eqej?si=LB7TLNTBdZti1GKb

Probably, but that is on their own responsibility and liability. (maybe another article for the news section later) I hope that the ones that would not be inclined to ignore it, but at least prepare for it, will become generally aware of the possibilities. Especially potential new arrivals planning Such as avoiding being in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days (for any second) in the year they are doing large remittances, perhaps. (leap year, have to be out an extra day this year). Not a new precaution to do so...

Minimum wages are revised in Thailand with effect from 01 January 2024. The minimum wage in Bangkok has increased from THB353. 00 THB363. 00 per day 6days x 363 x 52weeks = 113256THB (not them) The medium fish probably using online or bank trading platforms, for traceable overseas transactions, (part of the focus of the change), low hanging fruit. (easy) Perhaps knowing that Expats are more likely to complain they shall provide an expedited service, for such.

The tax scheme is already in place, but now income from previous year(s) must now be considered as income rather than savings, from 1st Jan 2024 going forward. It has been mentioned that they are perhaps to issue a new tax filing form, for the small minority that remit pre-taxed overseas income, to allow listing of their taxes paid overseas, as a credit against the Thai Tax computation (where relevant). Perhaps some administrative procedures need to be amended and implemented but nothing much. I suppose there could be a legal challenge perhaps, that may form an opinion.

Thailand is most likely very happy the money is coming in, but it is absolutely up to Thailand to decide what they are and are not happy about. Happy.

Can only say most likely, better enquire with your IO, should be fine it's getting deposited in a Thai Bank and revenue department recognise it, what more could they ask for! With Thai based earnings, they even allowed it to be an average of 40K/month in the past. (They may ask for your current tax filing for the 2023 year?)

No the the combination method was only for Retirement, even that unfortunately that seems to have slid in to an area of possible discretion rather than a clearly listed option...

Updated response Hope all the Tax Offices have that clear understanding! If Thai RD decided to tax it all , not just the excess over what had been deducted in the UK, for remitted non-Government / Private Pensions taxed at source , and said get it back from the UK, there appears to be no path to do that... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/double-taxation-treaty-relief-form-dt-individual "Part C.2: Work pensions and purchased annuities Enter details in Part C.2 if you receive a pension or purchased annuity from the UK. Most DT treaties provide for pensions and purchased annuities from the UK to be paid to a resident of the other country without UK tax taken off. The DT Digest gives information about whether relief from UK tax is available and if there are any special rules". It could be that someone has perhaps only say only a private pension paid to Thailand from the UK, and has applied for an NT tax code to not have it Taxed in the UK and then only pays the Thai Tax.

Just trying to catch up.. So if a Government Pension (UK), that is only taxed in the UK under an Article within the DTA, it should not be entered on a tax filing form. just don't list it anywhere. Is that the concensus ?

Can you not rely on your tax record in that case, if you work and pay taxes in Thailand, for the income method?

I think he is correct. If the Tax is paid in the UK at source, taxed in the UK, I'm glad that is accepted as there is no route to claim the relief back in the UK if Thailand did fully tax you. I Think Thai RD could still tax you on the difference, if the Thai Tax is higher. It could be that someone has perhaps only say only a private pension paid to Thailand from the UK, and has applied for an NT tax code to not have it Taxed in the UK and then only pays the Thai Tax.

No Yes or no answer as far as I have read. Inheritance tax if you don't apply not to be domiciled elsewhere, (after many many years) sounds like it would maybe be a yes But for income yes or no, as in you cant apply for relief on UK Tax using the DT-individual Form against pensions, but maybe you could apply for a NT Tax code for a private pension, so the tax tax is not deducted at Source, if you are permanently out of the UK year after year?. Depends p.s. Government pensions on the list only taxed in the UK though. "Article 19 Governmental Services... (2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State." https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/english_e.pdf

Generally Yes. But UK will always have tax rights on a Government pension. If you are in Thailand almost all the time year after.year, ThRD could claim priority taxing rights on some things, under article 4 of the DTA Someone recently noted they asked their tax office, and they said ok with either way, which suggests some flexibility. Don't think it would work more than an initial year for dividends and interest and the like, as they are generally not taxed at source, and even dividends from ISA's (tax free in UK) would be taxed in Thailand if sent / remitted there. The bit you mention and DTA article 23 3) refers, to tax credit of UK tax against Thai Tax ( where applicable)

Every little helps as they say! Your fire brigade pension was a contracted out scheme, same as my occupation service scheme(s), so based on what the state pension is now. =My rough calculation is that your unlikely going to be paying any Thai Tax! (and had no tax to pay going back at least 3 years) Only hassle is to gather up as much of the pension paperwork as possible in case you have to file,.

No unfortunately our DTA does not a a specific clause similar to the USA Social Sec , for the UK State pension scheme, (but further clarification on the state pension may evolve perhaps) Especially if the majority of your pension service years were with the Fire Brigade, I'm already anticipating the various over 65 allowances shall reduce the amount of the Tesco and State pensions, that will be considered in any RD Tax calculation. So I'm Guessing something like (monthly) Fire Brigade = No Thai Tax State Pension + Tesco Pension per month, take away about 32000 baht a month for allowances and the zero Tax band, then anything not cancelled out, if any, has only 5% tax (for the next 12.5k/month) You should also be able to claim a Tax Credit for the Tax paid on the Tesco PAYE which will then equate it to the net amount sent to Thailand, as you say the Tax is deducted in the UK. The state pension will have no Tax deducted, it will therefore not generate any Tax Credit.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Fire Brigade - paid directly by a Local Authority Fire Brigade - paid by a Fire Authority (Fire Fighter's Pension Scheme) These are classed a Government Pensions and are only taxed in the UK unless you have Thai Nationality!

I'm very sorry that you are feeling so low. I would try and not worry about this tax thing, someone will be able to help in due course, and many will have very similar situation. Just keep copies of your pay advices from your pensions, and.your P60 and annual state pension letter, and tax coding letter Issued in the the UK, from now on. (I think just forget about anything before 2023) Your health is always the most important priority, life is always worth living...Wishing you well.

Never done that in Thailand, or a 90day report, always flew back to the UK and came back on another 90 day entry. But I suppose Air fares are proportionately higher now

I'm still hoping the main theme, will be, along with CRS compliance, is that very thing, that if you have paid tax on your income somewhere, things are generally OK. The RD's change of rule interpretation by memo, was briefed in arricles that retirees are not the principle target of the re-interpretation of procedure. RD were not even set up to deal with the likes of tax credits arising via DTA's as the vast majority of Thai RD's customer base will be Thai nationals. Retirees are on the periphery, giving a very small inbound positive Fx base load contribution, and a VAT spend. UK HMRC just has a page saying to kinda write to Thai RD head office about tax credits, as they don't have have a relavant form. Not taxing income from previous years, for me was a haven of certainty, knowing exactly where you were, not fearing penalties and the like. Now it seems to have gone to the other end of the scale. But at least by keeping remittance basis and the 180 day definition it is not a total deterance on time and inward spending in Thailand, just a substantial one.

Just pondering over https://www.rd.go.th/english/37699.html#section9 "Section 9 Unless stated otherwise, if it is necessary to convert foreign currency into Thai currency in order to comply with this Title, it shall be converted using the exchange rate which the Ministry of Finance announces from time to time. 1 1N.MF.Re: Rates of Exchange of Foreign Currencies Against Thai Currency under Section 9 of the Revenue Code". ;- https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/eng/NOOF_Exchange_Rate.pdf "(2) the exchange rate based on a daily reference rate as announced daily by the Bank of Thailand for the conversion of foreign currency into Thai currency. Once any of the above exchange rate conversion is used, such rate shall continue to be used unless the Director-General of the Revenue Department grants approval to change the exchange rate conversion" ;- https://www.bot.or.th/en/statistics/exchange-rate.html Would it be the Transfer rate on the date of filing I wonder. Pending guide item 33 A :- https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html Chapter 3, Section 40, para 1 So if the "taxed only in UK pension" which is of assessable type, the order in which it is considered may become important. i.e. against the highest applicable band. "most beneficial to the payer"

Private and non-Government UK pensions (Random Number Example) Gross Pension 1 £15k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 2 £10k - UK Tax £2k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 3 £5k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 1 £15k - Thai Tax £1.6k Gross Pension 2 £10k - Thai Tax £1.8k Gross Pension 3 £5k - Thai Tax £1.2k Thai Tax £4.6k - UK Actual tax paid £4k applied as a tax credit. Circa £600 (if DTA article 23 3) applies) Thai tax to Pay. (Updated form from RD anticipated) If your pensions were remitted to Thailand in past years the year after they were paid, no worries. Should work something like that, but the practicalities, and what documents they would require is still mysterious to me I'm not currently Tax Resident in Thailand, and will always have Ties to the UK. If your no longer Tied to the UK, and are out there all the time, maybe could get a NT tax code, and not have tax in the UK deducted?? (but not .Gov Pensions). Government pensions are only Taxed in the UK https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Whole variety of different factors, exchange rates timing, documentation, mood of the Tax assessor, any other income perhaps only allows a close approximation what it maybe. I'm worried about getting caught between the two Tax Systems, as probably like your self, Tax is deducted automatically at source in the UK. Should I have to do a Thai Tax Return in The future, will the dream up documents I don't have, require them to be stamped by an entity that knows nothing about them before acceptance, might not be in Thailand at time of filing. More worried about the practicalities of doing it now, rather than the structure which I know a little more of now.