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kuffki
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Posts posted by kuffki
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Obama is backpedaling fast.
Claiming his remarks earlier this week on borders for Israel and a future Palestinian state had been misrepresented, President Obama said Sunday that "1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps" means the two sides will "negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on June 4, 1967."
"It allows the parties themselves to account for the changes that have taken place over the last 44 years, including the new demographic realities on the ground and the needs of both sides."
Tis a bugger when you have the volume on when thinking and then have to backpedal pretty pronto, ask Mel Gibson.
Who is Mel Gibson
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Just google "American aid to Palestine " or financial aid to middle east
Lomsak, 3 billion, well 3.5 to be precise is what Palestine gets from USA for celebrating the death of us citizens.
Egypt gets 6.5 billion for burning us flag now and then
Israel gets 8 billion
Good to get the figures correct before posting!
Where are you getting these figures from kuffki? I'm finding much lower figures, example http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm
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Lomsak, 3 billion, well 3.5 to be precise is what Palestine gets from USA for celebrating the death of us citizens.
Egypt gets 6.5 billion for burning us flag now and then
Israel gets 8 billion
Good to get the figures correct before posting!
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Wow, 5 posts in and the usual suspects are blaming Thaksin!
Well since it was under his initiative and approval, who else should be blamed? The president of South Africa?
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I think the concept was great, but as usual hardly any planning or consideration went into the project.
Its great that people can avoid the traffic, however it defeats the purpose if one has to then catch a taxi to get home or to hotel.
it should be linked to other BTS stations or have a connecting train to change to get to other stations.
From the airport, one has to take the link 150 baht, then try to catch a taxi in BKK busiest place and pay just as much if not more for the taxi and spend an unlimited time in traffic, so why would people use it if the time spent in the taxi is pretty much the as getting taxi from the start.
Same goes for going to the airport, one needs to take a taxi and then the link, so really its a hassle with hardly any saving and no convenience at all
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Clearly Palestinians lived in Palestine. As for who ruled them it would depend on when you were refering to.
In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I.
Read more:Palestinian people do not existhttp://www.wnd.com/n...2#ixzz1MzedE99J
The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine."
http://www.topix.com...E2OIRV3R0IPB07L
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No star wars or matrix?
Who lived there and who ruled there?
n
How about St George???
"Saint George was a Palestinian Christian"
That was the Jewish country that the Romans called Palestine way back in history. There has never been an Arab country with that name.
How about Shakespeare
The Life and Death of King John: Scene II.1 "Richard, that robb'd the lion of his heart, and fought the holy wars in Palestine"
Othello Scene IV.3: "I know a lady in Venice would have walked barefoot to Palestine for a touch of his [Lodovico's] nether lip."
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Some more for you samurai
Uzi Submachine gun - invented by Uzi Gal. The development was completed in 1955.
Gabriel - a sea-skimming anti-ship missile.
Arrow - a family of operational anti-ballistic missiles. Jointly funded and produced by Israel and the United States.
Merkava tank - a tank optimized for crew survival and rapid repair of battle damage.
IAI Lavi - an ambitious Israeli production of a modern fighter aircraft. The production of the plane was carried out at Israel Aircraft Industries. The production of the plane was disbanded when the Israeli government concluded it could not finance production on its own.
Python - a family of air-to-air missiles (AAMs) built by the Israeli weapons manufacturer Rafael Advanced Defense Systems.
Unmanned aerial vehicles - an aircraft that flies without a human crew on board the aircraft. Their largest uses are in military applications. Developed by Israel Aircraft Industries.
Nautilus laser system - a laser developed for military use. Jointly funded and produced by Israel and the United States.
Iron Dome - a mobile air defense system in development by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems designed to intercept short-range rockets and artillery shells. On April 7, 2011, the system successfully intercepted a Grad rocket launched from Gaza, marking the first time in history a short-range rocket was ever intercepted.[4]
Barak - a surface-to-air missile designed to be used as a point-defense missile system on warships, defending against aircraft, anti-ship missiles, and UAVs. Jointly produced and developed by Rafael and Israel Aircraft Industries .
MUSIC (Multi Spectral Infrared Countermeasure) - a system that counter surface-to-air heat-seeking missiles. It is manufactured by Elbit Systems.
MagnoShocker - combines a metal detector and a taser which could be used to neutralized immediately a dangerous person. It was developed by the mathematician Amit Weissman and his colleagues Adir Kahn and Zvi Jordan.
Reconnaissance satellite TecSAR - developed and built by Israel Aerospace Industries.
Tavor TAR-21 assault rifle - a modern assault rifle designed with the aim to be used as the IDF's standard assault rifle. The rifle was the developed by "Magen", the small arms division of the Israel Military Industries (IMI). The development of Tavor was completed in 2001. In 2005 Magen was sold to the Israeli company Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) which continues to develop and produce the rifle. The MTAR-21 (Micro Tavor) was recently selected as the future assault rifle of the Israeli Defense Forces, and within the next few years it will become the standard Israeli infantry weapon.
Technion Satellite - launched into space in July 1998, it is one of the smallest satellites in the world. Cube-shaped satellite which has 45 centimeter-long sides and weighs 48 kilograms and has an extremely low power consumption. The Technion satellite began as a student project of the Faculty of Aerospace Engineering, supervised by Haim Eshed and initiated by Giora Shaviv, head of the Asher Space Research Institute (ASRI) at the Technion.
Wall radar - a unique radar which utilizes Ultra Wide Band (UWB) to allows users to see through walls. Developed by the Israeli company Camro.[5]
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Special for Samurai, since the other source was not creditable enough for you, how do you feel about a professor of Sociology and an Arab-Muslim culture specialist. Who has taught at Kuwait University, King Saud University, and Michigan State University and who also happens to be an Arab, hope this is good enough for you
Arabs Are Not Ready for Peace in the Middle East
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.4349/pub_detail.asp
Did Israeli Aggression or Arab Demagogy Provoke Gaza Attacks?
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2243/pub_detail.asp
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"no reasonable counter argument"?
Its the question how you come to that statement " at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" "
AGAIN, do you have evidence to say show otherwise?i did not think so, With the amount of posts you have made in the past 24 hours which funny enough amounts to your total posts since 2006 when you joined, i can not help but wonder if you are a troll or a member with double identity
But just to show you some military assistance, from Israel to US,
Israel reportedly helping with U.S. war preparation
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-11-03-israel-usat_x.htm
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Why Palestinians be Israeli ?
And since another incorrect comment from you, why over 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel ?
Why do you keep posting irrelevant, factually and historically incorrect information?
Why do you keep making things up or just trolling?
I already asked you to provide proof to your statement of me doing something , and you failed.
Now you made up another story, ok please provide proof of what I said and you supposedly busted me.
Palestine did not exist, Israel did not take anything from Arabs .
Israel is democratic country and is open to all people who come on peace, hence the pilgrimage of Christians, Catholics , Jews , and Muslims . Israel is home to huge number of Arabs , 25% of the population to be precise .
People living in Israel are free to practice any religion they wish or none at all. People ate free to speak and demonstrate without being shot or beaten.
Israel does have a fair legal system open to all.
These are the facts , do not like it?!-tough luck, live with it!
it's always the same stupid arguments made in this forum..it doesn't matter that your opinion is that there was never a Palestine, despite the fact that in any pre-1948 map or newspaper the levant is refered to as 'Palestine' and the country that preceded Israel was called British Palestine.. there are 5 million people there 1.5 million in gaza, 1.5 million in israel, 2.5 million in the westbank..that call themselves Palestinians, you say they are arabs, ok then call the other state 'arab' as soon as they have there first parliament reading they will change the name back to Palestine.. the Palestinians cannot be israeli's because as netanyahoo keeps saying israel is a state for the jewish people..even he is expicitly rejecting them as citizens.. a 'state' is not dirt and buildings and vegitation, it is the people and their political entity..
you made that irrelevant 'there is no palestine' comment in a previous thread, i bursted it like i do your other dumb arguments, you don't offer a meaningful retort, you then make the same argument again.
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Physician, heal thyself.
oH BOY, how sad and uninformed!
Palestinians did not exist and are not a nation as such.
Palestinians are Arabs
Palestine as such does not have a specific culture, history as no state of Palestine ever existed.
Secondly,again for the second time, i was not the one who put quotation marks. If you actually bothered to open the link and read, you would see the marks were put the by the author
What is the relevance if it printed on the paper media or internet media? Does it make it less creditable or less historically correct?
Again if you actually bothered to open and see the site you would have found it refers to magazine.
Left wing, right wing, middle wing or no wing, the historic facts remain the same.
Of course you welcome to to stick to Palestine media as it is the most creditable source and they would never post factually incorrect information.
Iranian media is also excellent when it comes to the issue.
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One gets the feeling that Israel are avoiding peace at all costs. Maybe time for NATO to move in
what an insightful post! care to expand?
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Either I am still drunk or something wrong with my eyes but what does Jewish declaration of war on nazi have to do with middle eastern conflict ?
Can you post and underline where I brought up nazi Germany " I keep bringing up"
And post where I compared nazi to Palestinians ?
Arabs yes, without being specific . Furthermore, the author of the piece did, not me! Only in last sentence!
But i guess it's too hard to read the entire link to acknowledge the truth, much wiser to pick one word and go off subject, so posting rubbish does not appear as foolish
You keep bringing up NAZI Germany in these threads and then comparing the Palestinians to Nazi's like they have some shared agenda, like the Palestinians are facists because they want basic human rights..it was actually the zionists and german facists that had a shared agenda and ideology.. and it it ok that i don't click on your 'source' "archive font" i think i'll get infected if i go to another one of your rightwing zionist propaghanda sites
read:
http://www.winterson...es/jdecwar.html
and the first chapter of the transfer aggreement:
http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0025111302
When Hitler came to power in 1933 these Jewish groups in NY started protesting and calling for boycotts because of his anti-jewish politics, so guess what-the Zionists stepped in and 'mediated' between the Nazi's and Jewish groups and they came up with the transfer agreement; so there was never going to be any boycott or sanctions of nazi germany because instead Germany agreed to treat jews like garbage, in exchange Jews would only be allowed to escape these ghettos if they moved to Palestine and gave Jewish Palestine ALL their money! + the immigration fee, transportation fee the result was most didn't have the money to get out and were stuck in the ghettos-they couldn't escape to America or France or anywhere, they could only leave if they agreed to goto Palestine-which they couldn't afford, when the war came they all wound up dead-THX zionists! you guys are doin it for The Jewish People!
Germany with all the protests and boycotts called off went on to borrow billions from US banks from 1933-1939 and buildup their economy and war machine so the German people thought hitler was some kind of <deleted> genius.
Think about it this way, it's 1920-30sh, Palestine is an arab country, the zionists want to do 2 things, first they need to get jews to move there, few of them want to-why would you want to move from a 1st world country to this undeveloped backwater? They also want to get rid of the Palestinians, that came in 1948 as you know.. The Nazi's "The master Race", the Zionists "The Chosen People" in both cases the agenda is to create an ethno-non-pluristic state, sounds like a match made in hell; The Nazi's agenda get the Jews out of Europe; The Zionist Agenda-get the Jews out of Europe (but into Palestine) shared ideology and shared agenda! The Transfer Agreement.
The "Two States for Two Peoples" idea is not a solution at all but simply a strategy for weakening Israel and forcing it behind indefensible borders. Right after "Two States for Two Peoples" would be implemented, the new "Palestinian state" would invite the rest of the Arab world to finish off what remains of Israel. Even the "moderates" within the PLO insist that any "Israel" left standing within "Two States for Two Peoples" must be flooded by Arab migrants and stripped of its Jewish majority, in effect converted to yet another Arab Palestinian state. The Arabs still condition any "two-state solution" on Israel agreeing to being flooded with Arab immigrants purporting to be Palestinians, so that it will morph demographically into the 24th Arab state. Israel obviously cannot agree. Israel would be blanketed in rocket and mortar fire from "Palestine" and waves of Arab terrorist infiltrators into Israel would raise the carnage to unprecedented levels.
That such a "two-state solution" will not end the conflict, but only signal the commencement of its next stage, has long been the quasi-official position of virtually all Palestinian groups. These have long insisted that any two-state solution is but a stage in a "plan of stages," after which will come additional steps ultimately ending Israel's existence as a Jewish state. The "two-state solution" is no more realistic an option today than it was in 1948, when it was militarily squashed by the Arab states, terrorists, and armies. It is ultimately as much of an existential threat to Jewish survival in the Middle East today as the so-called "one-state solution," favored by the anti-Semitic Left, in which Israel is replaced by a Rwanda-like bi-national entity controlled by Arabs, in which the Jewish problem will be resolved in a Rwanda-style manner.
Falsehood: Israel is an apartheid regime
Truth
Israel is the only Middle East country that is NOT an apartheid regime. Arabs living under Israeli rule are the only Arabs in the Middle East who enjoy freedom of speech and of the press, free access to courts operating with due process, legal protection for property rights and the right to vote. Israeli Arabs have higher standards of education and health than any other group of Arabs in the Middle East. Israeli Arabs are quite simply the best-treated political minority in the Middle East and are in some ways better treated than are minority groups in many European countries. Israel is the only country in the Middle Eastthat does NOT deal with Islamist terror through wholesale massacres of the people in whose midst the terrorists operate
The Middle East conflict is and has always been based on Arab opposition to Israeli-Jewish self-determination. There is one and only one cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict, even if that single cause is buried beneath an avalanche of media mud designed to obfuscate and confuse. That single cause is the refusal of the Arab world to come to terms with Israel's existence within any set of borders whatsoever. The cause of the war is Arab refusal to come to terms with Jewish self-determination in any form whatsoever. The Middle East conflict is not about the right of self-determination of "Palestinian Arabs," but rather it is about the Arab rejection of self-determination for Israeli Jews. For a century, the Arabs have attempted to block Jewish self-determination, using violence.
No Palestinians before 1967 demanded any "homeland," although they did demand that the Jews be stripped of theirs. That is because Palestinians are not a "people" at all and do not consider themselves such, any more than do the Arabs of Paris or of Detroit. Palestinians never had any real interest in their own state, and in fact rioted violently in 1920 when "Palestine" was detached from Syria by the European powers. Indeed the original term "Nakba" ("catastrophe" in Arabic and in leftist NewSpeak) was coined to refer to the outrage of Palestinians separated from their Syrian homeland. Immediately after the Six Day War a sudden need for a Palestinian state was fabricated by the Arab world, as a gimmick to force Israel back to its pre-1967 borders. Israel would then again be ten-miles wide at its narrowest, and so prepped for the new Arab assault of annihilation and genocide.
The Arab world invented the "Palestinian people" so that it would serve the same role as the Sudeten Germans did in the late 1930s. That role was to provide a pretense of legitimacy for the war aims and aggression of a large fascist power. The term "self-determination" has been repeated as a rhetorical "inalienable right" for so long that few people recall that pursuing "self-determination" can also serve as a tool of aggression by barbarous aggressors and totalitarian powers. When Hitler decided to go on a war of conquest in the late 1930s, he dressed up his intentions in the cloak of legitimacy, merely "helping disenfranchised and oppressed people attain self-determination." He distorted the plight of ethnic Germans living in the Czech Sudetenland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, inventing tales of mistreatment. In reality of course these ethnic Germans already had the option of "self-determination" within the neighboring, sovereign German nation-states, and in fact enjoyed far more freedom and rights than did Germans inside Germany. Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia was prepared through postured indignity over the mistreatment of Germans by Germany's neighbors. Hitler insisted he was simply seeking to relieve the "misery of mistreated ethnic Germans," supposedly suffering inside democratic Czechoslovakia. "Self-determination" was also the pretense when Germany attacked Poland and other countries.
The Arab world decided that the "Palestinians" must play the role of Sudetens, serving as the political and moral pretense for Arab aggression and Islamofascist imperialism. The Arab fascists then misrepresent themselves as pursuing noble efforts at protecting a mistreated oppressed minority group of Arabs in need of "self-determination."
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Please elaborate who and how would force American people?
also please even speculate as to why American people will evev consider supporting someone who celebrates every terror act in USA or mourns the death of a terrorist or burns American flag.
Ps. What is Jewish dominated media? Are those people not American ? Of Jewish religion. They certainly not Israeli
An excellent speech by Benjamin Netanyahu. The American people will stand by Israel despite Obama's demands.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in front of President Obama and the media, explicitly rejected the president's call for a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 borders.
Sitting beside Obama following a private Oval Office meeting, the visiting prime minister said Friday that he values the president's efforts to advance the peace process and intends to work with him. But he said the president's call for Israel to pull back to the borders that existed before the Six-Day War is not tenable.
"We can't go back to those indefensible lines. ... I discussed this with the president," Netanyahu said.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/20/netanyahu-white-house-obamas-mideast-speech/
If the American people stand by Israel it will be because they were forced to, not because they wanted to.
Americans are not happy with Israel, despite all the Jewish dominated media which never fails to support Israel.
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You got source to show otherwise ?since my word not good enough for you?
Please feel free to dispute it with evidence
PS. I hope you do realize that at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" so this cheque that US gives is not only support but also a payment for new technology.
Reference, please.
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You would need to seek clarification from the author or the magazine
The Arab world invented the "Palestinian people" so that it would serve the same role as the Sudeten Germans did in the late 1930s. That role was to provide a pretense of legitimacy for the war aims and aggression of a large fascist power. The term "self-determination" has been repeated as a rhetorical "inalienable right" for so long that few people recall that pursuing "self-determination" can also serve as a tool of aggression by barbarous aggressors and totalitarian powers. When Hitler decided to go on a war of conquest in the late 1930s, he dressed up his intentions in the cloak of legitimacy, merely "helping disenfranchised and oppressed people attain self-determination." He distorted the plight of ethnic Germans living in the Czech Sudetenland and elsewhere in Eastern Europe, inventing tales of mistreatment. In reality of course these ethnic Germans already had the option of "self-determination" within the neighboring, sovereign German nation-states, and in fact enjoyed far more freedom and rights than did Germans inside Germany. Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia was prepared through postured indignity over the mistreatment of Germans by Germany's neighbors. Hitler insisted he was simply seeking to relieve the "misery of mistreated ethnic Germans," supposedly suffering inside democratic Czechoslovakia. "Self-determination" was also the pretense when Germany attacked Poland and other countries.
The Arab world decided that the "Palestinians" must play the role of Sudetens, serving as the political and moral pretense for Arab aggression and Islamofascist imperialism. The Arab fascists then misrepresent themselves as pursuing noble efforts at protecting a mistreated oppressed minority group of Arabs in need of "self-determination."
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Is that for real or is that the work of some media prankster?
The focus on Nazi-Germany and explanation of the term "self-determination" raises suspicion, specially in an Israel thread.
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In factIsrael has agreed in principle, somewhat foolishly, to the erection of such a Palestinian state
This is because Israel can see the writing on the wall: in 40 years there will be more Arabs in Israel than Israelis, which will inevitably put the "democratic" in democratic Israel into question. The two state solution is their plan to maintain a Jewish majority nation.
And regarding the title of this thread, "Israel rejects U.S. call for 1967 borders". The US gives Israel $3,000,000,000 every year. Perhaps it's time for the US treasury to forget to write one those checks.
Actually it's more like $8 Billion, not to mention bailing out El Al a couple years back, but hey who's counting?
Seems you are
You did forget the $6 billion for Egypt and whats the amount for Palestine? Let me help you out, its over $3.5 billion
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In factIsrael has agreed in principle, somewhat foolishly, to the erection of such a Palestinian state
This is because Israel can see the writing on the wall: in 40 years there will be more Arabs in Israel than Israelis, which will inevitably put the "democratic" in democratic Israel into question. The two state solution is their plan to maintain a Jewish majority nation.
And regarding the title of this thread, "Israel rejects U.S. call for 1967 borders". The US gives Israel $3,000,000,000 every year. Perhaps it's time for the US treasury to forget to write one those checks.
The “Two States for Two Peoples” idea is not a solution at all but simply a strategy for weakening Israel and forcing it behind indefensible borders. Right after “Two States for Two Peoples” would be implemented, the new “Palestinian state” would invite the rest of the Arab world to finish off what remains of Israel. Even the “moderates” within the PLO insist that any “Israel” left standing within “Two States for Two Peoples” must be flooded by Arab migrants and stripped of its Jewish majority, in effect converted to yet another Arab Palestinian state. The Arabs still condition any “two-state solution” on Israel agreeing to being flooded with Arab immigrants purporting to be Palestinians, so that it will morph demographically into the 24th Arab state. Israel obviously cannot agree. Israel would be blanketed in rocket and mortar fire from “Palestine” and waves of Arab terrorist infiltrators into Israel would raise the carnage to unprecedented levels.
That such a “two-state solution” will not end the conflict, but only signal the commencement of its next stage, has long been the quasi-official position of virtually all Palestinian groups. These have long insisted that any two-state solution is but a stage in a “plan of stages,” after which will come additional steps ultimately ending Israel's existence as a Jewish state. The “two-state solution” is no more realistic an option today than it was in 1948, when it was militarily squashed by the Arab states, terrorists, and armies. It is ultimately as much of an existential threat to Jewish survival in the Middle East today as the so-called “one-state solution,” favored by the anti-Semitic Left, in which Israel is replaced by a Rwanda-like bi-national entity controlled by Arabs, in which the Jewish problem will be resolved in a Rwanda-style manner.
As for US cheques,you can always run for the office and make whatever changes you see fit.
PS. I hope you do realize that at least half of US military equipment was developed by Israel and given for "FREE" so this cheque that US gives is not only support but also a payment for new technology.
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The 14 Lies Blocking Peace in the Middle East
President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton seem to think the idea of Palestinian statehood is the most wonderful idea to come along since the Thirteenth Amendment. And almost all world politicians, along with the Israeli Left, insist that all Israeli settlements must be removed from the West Bank because they serve as the main obstacle to peace. The reality is that the Middle East conflict has very little to do with debate over Palestinian statehood and even less to do with Israeli "settlements." In factIsrael has agreed in principle, somewhat foolishly, to the erection of such a Palestinian state, at least subject to some security conditions and other concessions from the Palestinians -- like recognizing Israel's right to exist. As it turns out, even so-called "moderate" Palestinians reject any such idea.
http://archive.front...spx?ARTID=35869
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I heard several discusions on CNN today refering to an "agreement"in 2004 and this is the first thing that came up when I Googled - which seems to refer to it.
Will do more research when I have a little time later in the evening.
I think it is the letter that made it into the news and stay there for two reasons.
a) Netanyahu came up with that letter
and b ) the presidential election in 2012. So lets paint Obama as traitor.
He (Netanyahu) said he would ask Obama for a "reaffirmation" of commitments made by President George Bush in a 2004 letter to Israeli premier Ariel Sharon that "relate to Israel not having to withdraw to the 1967 lines which are both indefensible."Referring to Israel's settlements, Bush wrote: "In light of new realities on the ground ... it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949" — a term synonymous with the pre-1967 borders. The Obama Administration has said it did not consider that letter binding.
The question has been around ever since Israel captured the West Bank, Gaza, east Jerusalem and other territories in the 1967 Middle East war. A few months later Security Council Resolution 242 called for "withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict," avoiding use of "the territories" and leaving the sides to debate whether this meant Israel could keep some areas.
Actually Obama said something that isn't that different from the Bush letter.
Bush: "As part of a final peace settlement, Israel must have secure and recognized borders, which should emerge from negotiations between the parties in accordance with UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338. In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli populations centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949, and all previous efforts to negotiate a two-state solution have reached the same conclusion. It is realistic to expect that any final status agreement will only be achieved on the basis of mutually agreed changes that reflect these realities. "
Obama: "The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. "
Obama is as realistic as it is Bush. Obamas 'border concept' includes swaps! Ergo it isn't "a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949"
What might these swaps include? The "new realities on the ground" Bush spoke of?
I am sure in a letter to the Israeli Prime Minister Obama would have worded his idea little bit different. That guy is a fox, (like most other politicians who gained power)
There is only 1 problem, well a few but the main one is
-Palestinians are not willing to swap or really give into anything.
To understand the problem, one needs to look into the roots of the conflict
The world needs to understand the roots of this eternal conflict, otherwise we are all kidding ourselves with hopes of peace.
For decades, Arabs had demanded that Israel end the "occupation," and in 2005, Israel did so, disengaging unilaterally from Gaza. With their demands met, there was no ‘cycle of violence’ to respond to, no further justification for anything other than peace and prosperity. With its central location and beautiful beaches on the East Mediteranean, a peaceful and prosperous Gaza could have become another Hong Kong; a shining trade and commerce center. But instead of choosing peace, the Palestinians chose Islamic jihad. They rolled their rocket launchers to the border and started bombing Israeli civilians.
Understanding the reasons why the Palestinians chose violence over peace requires connecting the dots from the behavior of Muslim states back to the laws of Islam: Sharia. Mainstream Sharia books define Jihad as: "to war against non-Muslims to establish the religion." (Shafi’i Sharia o9.0). Jihad is not just the duty of the individual Muslim, but it is also the main duty of the Muslim head of State (the Calipha):
http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=33645
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Beautiful, Simple and eloquent. But the truth is, people who are bigots thinking that they are the chosen race and that God set aside land just for them, or that sympathise with this mentality, will always find a way to distort the facts.
Though with time even the most tangled and convoluted webs must fall apart, and apartheid must end!
More power to President Obama for taking steps in that direction (even if they are tiny little baby ones...ya gotta start somewhere)
Well, i hate to retype again and again, but could you please provide some evidence that Palestine was ever a country and the land did belong to them.
Can you also explain, why Palestinians living in on Syrian border are still refugees and why are they still living in the camps? why have they not been assimilated into society
Also please explain why Jordan slaughtered thousands of them and threw them out?
Why Egypt rips them off on every purchase?
Why Iran ONLY send aid to arm Hamas and not to help the people?
When you will explain that, only then you have the right to post about apartheid.
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yes fot this i do apologize, that was a misspell, as i did make it more clear in the other post.
Now, would you mind to provide the source of your statistics from your post 47, to which i have already asked in post 49
No problem, yes you did say something contradictory in another post which did confuse me (easily done).
Statistics, I would doubt there are any statistics on such a thing for or against. Most of the news reports we are getting overwhelming show support for Palestine.
But to answser your question. No, I have no statistics, nor have I sought any. But the link below does indicate a lot of countries supporting a Palestinian state
Yes many countries do support Palestinian state and those also state that Palestine must recognize Israel and denounce violence and yet it has not happened and this is the only demand Israel has had for years and every time cease fire is reached, some idiots fire rockets again and celebrate it.
if the support for Palestine was AS IS was as strong as you make it out to be, rest assured there already would be a state of Palestine.
Just like the entire world is against the murder of people in Syria and yet no one does anything but talk.
Ever wondered by UN never sent peace keeping troops to Palestine?
One answer is, because UN was well aware that if they do, the peace keeping force will be the subject of terror attacks.
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Could you please elaborate how to police the new so called borders?
What plan do you propose to undertake? besides knocking down the houses?
Who and how would provide security for the Jews living there? Or do you propose Israel throws out the 1.5 million arabs living on Israels land or would you prefer that those left living in the NEW so called Palestine will be just killed since PA has no ability or control to police and provide security
How do you propose to set up Jerusalem? what and how to police the borders?
And last and pretty much most importantly, since Hamas already made a statement that they want PRE-1967 borders, more like 1948 borders or no Israel at all, Please tell us again, why Israel should go to 1968 borders? which will not solve anything(as already stated by Hamas)
and why should Israel do anything, if Hamas refused to recognize Israel
Pre-1967 borders means in most cases pre-Six-Day War borders. In the same sense the term "1967 borders" is used, it refers to the pre-war lines.
The war happened in the middle of the year 1967 and this war changed the border lines, to avoid confusion sometimes the term "pre-1967" borders is used to make clear its not about the post-war borders of that year 1967.
About the 'logistic questions' of border control Obama said:
"The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states,"
Obama said also: "For the Palestinians, efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure. Symbolic actions to isolate Israel at the United Nations in September won't create an independent state. Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection. And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist."
You should listen to the full speech or read here the transcript of it:
http://www.msnbc.msn...mideast-speech/
I don't get the fuss about about it. Obama didn't came up with something radical new and he spoke previously about his opinion on the 1967 borders, It is actually that what the international community thinks. That position is not unknown in Israel. To reject such calls a well practised exercise in Israel and causes no headache.
Everything else is just an US-domestic issue, an anti campaign in relation to the 2012 presidential elections.
The main point that you missed is How police the borders when Hamas does not recognize Israel? So what good it will do to even give this compromise?
I personally have no problem with what Obama said, because just few days ago he also said they US will not deal with Hamas and there will be no recognition unless PA denounced violence and recognized Israel
The only problem i do have is, while so many talk about 1968 borders, no one so far has come up with a workable plan.
How do you split up a city and police it?
How do you make borders and police them especially when the other side is hostile and does not even recognize other part right to exist.
Israel is speaking in realistic terms that its simply not possible, while everyone else is talking theory.
So since PA is making those demands, why have they not come with with workable plan?
,?
15 countries join UN Human Rights Council
in World News
Posted
Well, personally i am impressed with a choice of new members, especially the Republic of Congo.
I mean after all, only 3 million people have been killed.
Democratic Republic of Congo country profile
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1076399.stm