Will27

You can disagree all you want, but you'd be wrong. Under the current rules, if Danny the Dope has moved to Thailand and done the smart thing and cleared out his bank account and sold off his assets, the debt will be written off. How do you envisage it being collectable I wonder.

Yes I know you are. DPO's are not issued against people who have an arrangement to pay.

The ATO writes off debts all of the time. It makes their figures look good when they announce to Parliament how much debt is outstanding. It's got nothing to do with a time frame. If they deem the debt is uneconomical to pursue, it's gets written off. And lets face it, most debts would fall under that.

I'm pretty sure that is not workable. Each case that has a departure prohibition order issued (CSA and ATO) is decided on a case by case basis. It's not done automatically or on debt levels. For the ATO, you would have to have a massive debt, Paul Hogan for example. The days of Barry the Bricklayer being stopped from leaving the country over a $1000 debt to the ATO doesn't or won't happen IMO.

I'm not sure about HECS debt but I assume it's the same as an ATO debt. In most cases if the person is overseas, it is written off.

I think the system is pretty much the same TBH. It all depends on debt level and circumstances. IMO, people getting stopped from leaving the country for a run of the mill tax debt won't happen.

Again, this is a statement with which has no basis. It's just incorrect. You're quoting from a debt collection agency which is hardly objective. It hasn't said anything that hasn't been mentioned before. As I've said, people can be stopped from leaving the country with CSA and tax debts. It's nothing new. I don't think the ATO will enforce overseas debt, unless it's a massive amount. Even then it's hardly common. It's pretty much not cost effective. They write the debt off and it gets raised again when the person enters Australia.

If they do bring in this proposed 183 day rule, surely it would be reasonable to exempt the OAP, disability and DVA pensions.

One of the main issues I have with your postings, is that you say in your opinion the government will refuse the issuing of passports to people with a tax debt. Even though I don't agree, it's only an opinion. You have posted this opinion several times (see below). The problem I have, is that you're saying people were stopped at airports and denied leaving Australia because of HECS tax debts. I can find no record of this in the link you provided, so if you could provide some proof that people were denied leaving Australia I would like to see it. If you can, fair enough. But if you can't, it really waters down your opinion. "Either have I, but I have provided a link where they are stopping people with HECS debts leaving the country at the airport. This red flag is obviously attached to their passport details." "I put forward one simple method they may implement. The method is already being used in similar situations, and I have posted a link showing one. The government is the creditor, and obviously also issues passports". "Why would the government issue a debtor a new passport, when they own the government money? What's the one thing an Australian needs overseas, a passport. Not a sim card, not a bank account, not a license, a passport. Guess who issues passports, the same entity that is owed money. You present at n Embassy for a passport renewal: Staff: "Sir, you must contact the ATO to resolve you tax debt matter before we can issue you a new passport." Expat: "But, but, but. I need a new passport so I can stay in Thailand." Staff: "Have a good day, Sir."

I don't think it's quite that simple TBH. If Bruce for example has been in Thailand for 10 years pretty much full time, it would hardly be a stretch for the ATO to say Thailand is his place of abode. From the ATO website with an example. "Permanent place of abode" The following meanings have been established through case law: permanent does not have the meaning of everlasting or forever, but is used in the sense of being contrasted to temporary or transitory your place of abode is your residence, where you live with your family and sleep at night". Example: Foreign resident for tax purposes Bronwyn, an Australian resident, receives a job offer to work overseas for three years, with an option to extend for another three years. Bronwyn, her husband and three children decide to make the move. They rent out their house in Australia as they intend to return one day. While overseas they rent a house with an accommodation allowance provided under Bronwyn's contract. Bronwyn is unsure if she will extend her contract to stay for another three years. She will decide later depending on how the family like life. Bronwyn is considered a foreign resident for tax purposes because she does not satisfy 'the resides' test. This is due to: the length of her physical absence from Australia other circumstances not being consistent with residing in Australia, even though she has retained the family home – such as establishing a home overseas with her family renting out her family home in Australia. Bronwyn has also not satisfied the domicile test, as: her permanent place of abode is outside Australia due to the length of time committed to being overseas the establishment of a home overseas her family going with her overseas the fact that she won't be selling the family home in Australia, although relevant, is not persuasive enough to overcome the finding on the basis of the other factors it can be argued that she has abandoned her home in Australia for the duration of her stay, by renting it out.

The CSA is basically a collection agency. So technically it probably is a debt to the government even though it's passed on to the payee's.

Where does it say that in the link you provided? Seriously.

No. You have posted several time that people were stopped from leaving the country. "I have provided a link where they are stopping people with HECS debts leaving the country at the airport". More scare mongering from you again.

People are still getting issued passports now despite having debts. I can't see that changing. Going on your theory, they will deny people getting a passport for any debt to the government. That's just crazy, not to mention unworkable. BTW, still waiting for that link where people were stopped from leaving the country due to their hecs debt.

Comparing unpaid fines and licence renewals to being banned from getting a passport is a stretch. Even for you. Again, can you post a link where people with hecs debts were stopped from leaving the country? I've seen nothing that says that. You keep saying your stuff is a possibility. It's possible I will win a million dollars on the lotto tomorrow using your theory. Possibility, likely, no. I think we all keep an eye out for the future. Keep telling people all of this craps is scare mongering. If you're basing people being denied a passport to people not getting a licence renewal, you're in Laa Laa land.

You've posted twice now about people leaving country with HECS debt stopped. Unless I misread the link, I never saw anything about people being stopped leaving the country.

"Doesn't Centerlink already withhold some pension if you are out of the country for more than 6 weeks, or you tell them you will be? If so, if you are outside Australia indefinitely, I guess they will just withhold the non resident amount." Read what I posted again. I said you will be paid the pension you're entitled to. Obviously if you're out of the country for 6 weeks, you're not entitled to it. "I guess they will just withhold the non resident amount." That's all you do, guess. There's no law bought in as yet, And it if was, it would be managed by the ATO. "The 183 day rule takes away some of that self assessment, doesn't it?" Of course it doesn't. You will still be asked if you're a resident for tax purposes. It will be up to the individual to decide what box to tick.

Nice call. Although I wasn't talking about the bankruptcy process, which is entirely different to what KH way saying. He was inferring that the government wouldn't issue new passports to someone with an ATO debt and people overseas would be stuck. Another "proposed change" I guess.

Can you explain how someone who lives full time in Thailand, doesn't go back to Oz and has maybe a bank account and the pension as income, is a resident? Other than just ticking you're a resident when you're obviously not. People wanting to be non-residents would be in the extreme minority on here you'd think

I still haven't heard of the government refusing someone a passport for a tax debt.

We were talking about government debt. A debt to the ATO.

Don't tell me you're not scare mongering when you're pretty much saying the government will refuse you a passport if you have an outstanding debt. You're making this stuff up.

Once again you twist things to suit your narrative. I do vote at the Embassy actually, but that doesn't mean a thing. You said "the "Gov" will just pay around 30% less a fortnight. I've told you Centrelink and the ATO are obviously different. Centrelink will pay your full pension that you're entitled to. What the ATO does is a different matter. Our tax system is still "self assessement" and I'm sure peope will still tick they're a non-resident for tax purposes even if it's incorrect. It will then be up to the ATO to decide what to do. You're like a dog with a bone mate. I've asked you before to stop asking me why the proposes changes won't come in. You don't think papers will run with "pensioners to be hit with extra tax charges"? LOL Of course they will.

Again, you're just making stuff up to suit your narrative. You were taking about people leaving the country with debts. Those were the court orders I was talking about. If the ATO wants to chase a debt whilst someone is out of the country, who as you said is making money, it's easy for them to garnish wages and bank accounts etc. Now you're making stuff about the possibility of the government refusing passports. There is nothing about the government refusing Australians passport. Stop making this nonsense up. You're fear mongering.

No matter how many times you keep saying it, doesn't mean it's going to happen. The government cannot reduce your pension by 30% at all. They have to pay you the standard pension that you're entitled to. If you're deemed to be a non-resident by the ATO, they will tax you accordingly. You're just making stuff up to suit your argument. If you don't think there will be a backlash when the headlines read " Government slashes income for our most vulnerable", "Pensioner kills himself as new tax laws would've forced him to leave his family and return to Oz", etc. You've got your head in the sand.