LevelHead

I am sure certain factions of the invisible hand party are now trying to negotiate that he can return provided his party do not investigate them.

So quite a good idea of Thaksin to now back off wanting to come back and let those who are guilty of murder and corruption and crimes against a civilian population sweat about what is going to happen next - and not give them the easy negotiation of "you can come back now provided we are left alone".

Remember, how many military leaders are presently living with an AMNESTY already in place for their past crimes.

All coup leaders gave themselves AMNESTY.

They know they cannot argue against the principle of amnesty as they are living today with it.

It is only the invisible hand that represents division in Thailand, and why only Thaksin and his party that represent the Thai majority.

Its why the invisible hand can never win an election by their puppets and why they resort to other means to get control. And why Thaksin's party can easily win elections.

Good riddance sums it up.

Cockroaches keeping popping up and will forever be a pest but from time to time but a good blast of democracy and elections can put them down, until invisible hands put them back into the kitchen again.

It will be great to see Suvarnubhumi airport become better now that the rumoured BJT control of it will soon be shattered. Perhaps we might get better duty free prices and more choice of products with the Democrats/BJT gone.

Certainly the rampant corruption of the past couple of years should now get reduced.

Why are sooooo many Thai Visa forum members sooooo Anti-Phua Thai? The Thai people have made their choice! Many TV forum members say they want democracy to flourish in Thailand. But the very same people do not walk the talk. I find this hilarious but at the same time - somewhat sad.

I'd be interested to hear from others but for me it is solely about Thaksin. In my heart of hearts I know that Thailand cannot truly move forward as long as he is pulling the strings or even appearing to pull the stings. Forget about his past and everything about his current situation .. there is simply no other Thai who represents division like Thaksin. I personally would have liked to see Abhisit win but would rather have seen him agree to bow out as long as Thaksin did to truly pave the way for reconciliation.

I truly believe Yellows or all the other anti-Reds would have accepted any election results with one exception and that is a results that gives Thaksin back power be it directly or having a puppet in place. I hope I am wrong but somehow I know I am not and am confident within the year we will see more turmoil in Thailand unless the party turns on Thaksin. And to be clear, it is not even his policies (which I disagree with) but simply him and what he represents. He represents division and now 5-years later he refuses to go away and the division and hatred between Thais has not either.

I think that most members here who take an anti-PTP stance would go along with that, it isn't about the party, but most of the pro-PTP in here fail to understand that.

Thaksin does not represent division. The Thai people keep voting for him and his party. They are not divided.

It is the minority who abuse their guns and tanks and influence who see Thaksin as a severe threat to their continued existence as "privileged".

Thailand was not divided by Thaksin, it is the freedom and liberty that was in the process of giving to Thai's that represented a threat the minority could not take anymore.

The minority have tried to divide the country since 2006 - but the single biggest thing that unites the normal Thai people is Thaksin - which is why they keep winning elections.

Can you not grasp that principle of election and democracy ????

Its also funny how the losers on the internet always point to percentage of the vote and how the winner was vote buying.

Lets remember.

The lowest voter turn out was in Isaan. So all those people were paid not to vote ? Thats not vote buying......... Vote buying is where you pay for a majority to vote, eg not Isaan.

Isaan has the lowest voter turnout as vote buying is not needed and people will vote with PTP, so the opposition do not vote buy and nor do the winners, as the people (the majority of Thai's) will vote PTP therefore meaning most people do not even bother voting, let alone have their vote bought.

But of course this low voter turnout of the PTP voters is then twisted to be that their support is not as wide as the statistics (which ignore the non-voters) can then be manipulated to say.

Imagine the figures if the perhaps 65% of Isaan who did not bother to vote actually did vote PTP - what would the statistics say then.

More sour grapes. The Nation and is pandering to hate is a key culprit in the negative perceptions. How come the Nation never crusaded against corruption, naming and shaming? Let the Nation set the example and expose the corrupt practices in Thailand's business world.

The Nation is an English language newspapers. How can it effect the opinion of most of the Thai people?

Because the main readership of the Nation (and Bangkok Post, for that matter) are well-educated English-reading Thais. Next?

Prior to the elections, there were a lot of people on thisforum were beating and puffing their chests out in a positive way, quoting fromthe Nation. Now they have lost. The chest beating is over and the chests havegone down and the negativity is flowing out.

The Nation is a newspaper that mainly spreads proper ganderthat suits its own purpose, which is to try and get people to purchase thepaper. Hence that is why a lot of bad losers on the TVF have used quotes fromit. It only prints negative media that keeps the circulation going. It stillis.

The election is over, the Thai people have voted and unlikea lot of members here, the Thai's have accepted the outcome.

The only persons that keep bringing up the ousted PrimeMinister Thaksin, the riots in Bangkok, the military crackdown, the corruptionand a multitude of other things not of interest anymore, are the Nation and itsTVF followers.

In time it will hit you, the Democrats lost and you have abad taste in your mouths. After a short passing the bad taste will go. Give ita rest.

The Nation is, imo, a disgrace of a newspaper. It has been, thanks to its ownership, very anti-Thaksin and anti TRT. They have been supportive of the PAD and Yellows and the Multicolours and all undemocratic means of keeping power with the invisible hands.

PTP should now use precedent set by the Democrats/BJT and shut down the Nation, ASTV and all the other outlets of these people. However, that is not good for reconciliation, hopefully PTP will rise above the pathetic behavior of the Democrats/NJT and Military and allow freedoms that have been taken away from the people since the coup of 2006 to return.

TRT/PPP/PTP have now won when the military were in control and when the Democrats/BJT were in control and working very hard against them.

The people know who are the real corrupt forces in Thailand, and the people will always vote against the real corrupt, the real undemocratic forces.

Lets not forget, Thaksin has been convicted on something HIS WIFE DID, where his wife and everyone else involved is innocent and not charged and yet he is charged by association of being the husband,

Its always been a joke and the people of Thailand see right through it.

Thaksin was charged for doing something HE did. As PM, HE wasn't allowed to sign off on a government related deal.

Nobody was found guilty of anything apart from Thaksin.

How can nobody else be guilty and yet he was the only guilty party for being party to an alleged wrongdoing ? If the wrongdoing was not against the law and others found guilty then how can he be ?

The Military changed the top judiciary after the coup. The Military set up panels to investigate Thaksin. It is no surprise the Military appointed panels found Thaksin guilty and the new appointed top judiciary found him guilty on the charges the military appointed panels found.

He had to be found guilty of something to justify the coup and justify the coup leaders granting themselves AMNESTY from treason.

Yes, lets not forget there are many people in Thailand who have granted themselves amnesty. Strangely most with military association.

The propaganda machine has worked hard since 2006 to disgrace Thaksin - but it cannot succeed as seen by the elections and the people know the truth and will continue to vote for the truth and against the TRUE CORRUPT of Thailand, who will continue to lose every election.

The PM is not allowed to be involved in personal deals with the government. That's why he was found guilty.

Ofcourse, that didn't stop Thaksin changing laws to suit his own companies, but that's one of the reasons people turned against him after his 2005 election victory.

The PM was not involved. His wife was (she is now ex-wife).

As for the people turning against him, this is a common misconception.

The PEOPLE have never turned against him in a majority. Just a few minority people did and they got the support of the invisible hand and overturned the peoples democratically elected government.

The ELECTION results do not lie. Check the election results for the past 15 years. The people have always supported Thaksin and support his fight about leveling the playing field and making the country belong to the people, not just the invisible hands.

TRT/PPP/PTP have now won when the military were in control and when the Democrats/BJT were in control and working very hard against them.

The people know who are the real corrupt forces in Thailand, and the people will always vote against the real corrupt, the real undemocratic forces.

Lets not forget, Thaksin has been convicted on something HIS WIFE DID, where his wife and everyone else involved is innocent and not charged and yet he is charged by association of being the husband,

Its always been a joke and the people of Thailand see right through it.

Thaksin was charged for doing something HE did. As PM, HE wasn't allowed to sign off on a government related deal.

Nobody was found guilty of anything apart from Thaksin.

How can nobody else be guilty and yet he was the only guilty party for being party to an alleged wrongdoing ? If the wrongdoing was not against the law and others found guilty then how can he be ?

The Military changed the top judiciary after the coup. The Military set up panels to investigate Thaksin. It is no surprise the Military appointed panels found Thaksin guilty and the new appointed top judiciary found him guilty on the charges the military appointed panels found.

He had to be found guilty of something to justify the coup and justify the coup leaders granting themselves AMNESTY from treason.

Yes, lets not forget there are many people in Thailand who have granted themselves amnesty. Strangely most with military association.

The propaganda machine has worked hard since 2006 to disgrace Thaksin - but it cannot succeed as seen by the elections and the people know the truth and will continue to vote for the truth and against the TRUE CORRUPT of Thailand, who will continue to lose every election.

The Democrats and BJT and their backers played a very clever ploy with the investigation into the Red Shirt Demo's.

Ever wonder why nothing came out of the panels all set up to investigate ?

if the truth comes out when the Democrats/BJT were in power and its the real truth then it would hurt.

Now, if the truth comes out under PTP government then they will ALL HIDE behind "government intervention" - its retribution - not fair due to PTP government etc.............

Thats why its all been held back.

The best thing PTP can do is hand all the investigation over to the UN/ICC, wash their hands of the investigation and allow international organizations in to get on with it.

A wonderful day !!!!

The corruption of the events of 2006 is put right yet again.

TRT/PPP/PTP have now won every election for what is fast approaching 20 years. Everyone remember how corrupt the Democrats were back before TRT and Thaksin rose to power.

Having lived through Democrat corruption and the rise to power of TRT and then its downfall at the hands of the military and the elite invisible hand - I can assure you TRT and Thaksin is far better than anything else THailand has seen and its why the people CONTINUALLY vote for them.

The excuses of the only reason Thaksin won is because TRT was in power are blown away, they have won when the military where in control and against then and now won when the Democrats/BJT were in control and against them.

A wonderful day for Thailand. The Thai people in the majority have shown who they support, and well done to them for YET AGAIN choosing the TRT/PPP/PTP and rejecting the others.

And TRT/PPP (perhaps also PTP) have been disqualified from every victory, from vote buying. After Thaksin was booted out with a coup it became possible to put him on trial and reveal the full extent of his corruption, I urge the new government to look for similar corruption from the Democrats in the recent govt.

And don't kid yourself that it's all about numbers, because without the 20 million in Isarn willing to sell their vote or easily bamboozled with handouts, Thaksin would never have even made it past the first election.

Standard excuse from losers.

In 2007 the military attempted to make sure minimal vote buying by any party. Result PPP won.

In 2011 the military/Democrats/BJT/Multicolours all tried to make sure minimal vote buying by PTP and it seems IGNORE all other parties vote buying. Result PTP won.

Vote buying is not something that TRT/Thaksin invented. It is standard practice by all. And TRT/PPP/PTP have shown they can win without it.

After the 2006 coup the top judiciary was changed by the military and then the very same military appointed judiciary and the military appointed panels to investigate Thaksin SURPRISE found the man they kicked out guilty, which then justified to themselves their action and justified their AMNESTY they gave themselves.

Corruption - the Thai people continue to vote against the biggest corruption. Its just the corrupt cannot accept the result and keep trying to nullify it.

Shows how out of touch the Thai Visa news section regulars are with the opinions of the majority of Thai people IMO.

Great day for Thailand - putting the military and elite firmly in their places once and for all.

very true!

The PAD, the Yellow shirts and those who lost out to TRT/PPP business policies have been very vocal users of the internet and media.

They have to be very vocal as with any campaign to disgrace people and parties you have to throw enough lies to eventually make some stick in peoples minds.

So they need to continue pushing the lies all the time, about Thaksin being the most corrupt, about TRT being the most corrupt as for many people who were never here under TRT they have no experience. They do not know how good Thaksin was or how good the TRT were.

This is why the corrupt and undemocratic forces of oppression and the forces who lost out financially to TRT winning will continue to be very vocal against TRT and Thaksin, they have to try to keep the act up, they have to try keep the seeds sown germinating.

However, the Thai people know the truth and that is something that shows in each and every election.

TRT/PPP/PTP have now won when the military were in control and when the Democrats/BJT were in control and working very hard against them.

The people know who are the real corrupt forces in Thailand, and the people will always vote against the real corrupt, the real undemocratic forces.

Lets not forget, Thaksin has been convicted on something HIS WIFE DID, where his wife and everyone else involved is innocent and not charged and yet he is charged by association of being the husband,

Its always been a joke and the people of Thailand see right through it.

I find it funny how the 2006 coup leader is "ready to work with PTP".

Of course he has to be.

He and the other coup leaders all granted themselves AMNESTY against their treason.

He and many others could never fight against amnesty as he and many others have all granted themselves amnesty in the past.

Well done the Thai People again for rejecting the oppressive undemocratic and corrupt forces that continue to try to strangle democracy in Thailand. Well done for voting for PTP (TRT/PPP).

A wonderful day !!!!

The corruption of the events of 2006 is put right yet again.

TRT/PPP/PTP have now won every election for what is fast approaching 20 years. Everyone remember how corrupt the Democrats were back before TRT and Thaksin rose to power.

Having lived through Democrat corruption and the rise to power of TRT and then its downfall at the hands of the military and the elite invisible hand - I can assure you TRT and Thaksin is far better than anything else THailand has seen and its why the people CONTINUALLY vote for them.

The excuses of the only reason Thaksin won is because TRT was in power are blown away, they have won when the military where in control and against then and now won when the Democrats/BJT were in control and against them.

A wonderful day for Thailand. The Thai people in the majority have shown who they support, and well done to them for YET AGAIN choosing the TRT/PPP/PTP and rejecting the others.

Wow.... even in The Nation ! it says the CRES wants amnesty for all officials as part of the deal.

Amnesty likely for red shirts on minor offences

Do you see why the reds do not want any amnesty for them or anyone ??????? Its all a whitewash.......... the government and army trying to hide what it has done - again.

Edit.

Give us the article name so we can google it...

Go and read the other newspaper.

I do. Every day. There is no such article that provides proof for LevelHead's claims.

As I cannot link to BP articles, try this :

Limited amnesty | Asian Correspondent

.

BP - a report from a few days ago.

Sorry, not allowed to link BP reports on here, against the rules of TV.

So why do you think that the Red shirts do not want the amnesty but the government is trying to force it to happen.

Its all about the CRES/Officials/Army being granted amnesty, along with a few token reds and the reason for the justification of it.

The military was selective, and I think professional too.(I'm ignoring your creepy second sentence).However a large number of civilians were shot dead and that needs to be carefully investigated.

snip

Having said that, I believe that the government has the moral advantage insofar as they have the imperative to protect the citizenry from dangerous elements, in this case the innocent citizens of BKK required government protection from the redshirt demonstrators who were clearly dangerous and in violation of numerous laws.

The reds shirts were peaceful and not violent at all, in so far as provoking and starting violence.

The multi-colour shirts went looking for fight, they taunted the reds into response.

The military provoked the reds.

The reds on their own were peaceful until deliberately provoked.

The coup leaders of 2006 were in direct violation of the law and did a treasonous act, they have never been brought to justice as they changed the law and gave themselves immunity. The Yellow shirts committed the treasonous act of prevent parliament from opening, they broke the law by blocking government house, they committed the terrorist acts of shutting down the airports. The Yellow shirt guards were captured on film having guns and firing them fighting with taxi drivers, the Yellow shirt guards killed one man at Don Muang as they thought he was a police infiltrator.

But that all seems to be ok by Abhisit and the Democrats and the Army.......... because of course they are all Yellow shirts - all controlled by the old corrupt men who abuse their power granted to them by their access to privileged circles.

Nobody in the south is a terrorist.

They bomb. They kill. They behead.

But never called terrorists.

For the cynics out there, perhaps the Red shirts must take lessons in how to avoid being called terrorists, rather than have sling shots they must take up AK47. Rather than throw M150 bottle petrol bombs they must set off car bombs and motor bike bombs, rather than having a protest they must behead people.

But perhaps the best thing the Reds can do is pretend to be Democrat voters, that seems to make you immune from being labelled a terrorist.

Nope. They southern rebels are classed as 'armed and violent insurgents'. Would you prefer that label for your red brethren?

Before you answer this question please remember that armed and violent insurgents can justifiably and legally be killed by the military at almost any time, and with relatively few restrictions.

The Army seem to have killed over 80 innocent civilians in Bangkok and got away with it............ seems that wearing a red shirt also allows the military to shoot you with no protection from the government, in fact, its with the governments blessing and support it seems.

Hopefully we will see Abhisit and Suthep and others in the International Criminal Court in 5 or 10 years time, being brought before the judiciary (not a coup appointed Thai one) to account for what they did and defend their actions in a non biased court and system.

Absolutely there must be NO AMNESTY.

None at all.

Its already been clearly said that as part of the deal proposed to amnesty some reds that ALL CRES, Army, officials will be given amnesty (as well as by precedent all Yellow and Multi-Colour Shirts).

This is purely a ploy by those in power to whitewash everything.

There must be no amnesty for anybody, not for reds and not for any soldier, any official, any politician, anyone at all.

Everyone must be tried and face courts (be it now or in 10 years time) for everything they have done.

Where has this been said?

Certainly if you take your news from ASTV or the Nation or TAN you will not hear that. Simply open your mind to other news sources, who are capable of reporting freely and fairly, and you will find the answers you desire.

Clearly reported that as part of the proposed amnesty all officials and army and CRES will all be given amnesty too.

Why do you think Reds are saying they do not want the amnesty ?????

Acceptance of it will allow the CRES to whitewash everyone involved...... on their side.

No amnesty !! for anyone !!

Nobody in the south is a terrorist.

They bomb. They kill. They behead.

But never called terrorists.

For the cynics out there, perhaps the Red shirts must take lessons in how to avoid being called terrorists, rather than have sling shots they must take up AK47. Rather than throw M150 bottle petrol bombs they must set off car bombs and motor bike bombs, rather than having a protest they must behead people.

But perhaps the best thing the Reds can do is pretend to be Democrat voters, that seems to make you immune from being labelled a terrorist.

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

That was before they scared away the tourist dollar and burned down much of the country.

Many tourists were photo'd in with the reds, Posing for photo's,

No pictures with the Thai solidiers who were shooting people, Thai and Foreign.

Who scared way the tourist dollar ? The violent Thai military and their Elite backers who do not care about human life, only their desire to cling on to power for decades more.

About 0.000001% of the country was burned and this was probably in pure frustration of seeing the military shoot innocent civilians. It cannot be condoned but it can be understood.

I live in the heartland of Red country and the depth of feeling is unmistakable.

I live in Chiang Mai - Thaksin territory - and slim is partially.right. The feeling is unmistakable: Most redshirt sympathizers saw the violence and hatred on May 19 and have turned their back on them. Thai people do not want a civil war and they want decent lives. Destroying tourism has not helped anybody or anything and the redshirt leaders have quite effectively pointed out that they are only interested in power and lining their own pockets.

Hopefully, Thais will support the PM in the next election. Like Prime Ministers Chuan and Arnand before him he actually has their best interests in mind. There are not a lot of local politicians who can make this claim.

Sorry to disagree with you UG but i have a complete reversal of feelings that have made me come to the conclusion while it may be said a lot of people who support the Red shirts may be a little pissed of of the recent antics of a few they still remain loyal to the movement (and sadly Thakskin)In actual fact i am surprised at the amount of people in various prominent positions who i would never have dreamed of as being red shirt supporters that have turned out to be. I am not saying this is a good thing or not but just a different observation.

It is very true. More and more are becoming red shirts.

They are fed up of the corruptos who hang on to power through their access to privileged circles and who have since they called for the 2006 coup destroyed the country more and more.

If Abhisit was so strong he would not be scared of elections.

He is just the puppet, the people who pull his strings know full well a country wide general election would see PTP win - and so they do not allow it to happen.

If you get your news from ASTV or TAN or Nation you have to realize its Yellow propaganda in the most.

Red support is growing, and at an even faster rate following the disgusting military action of killing innocent civilians.

Just REMEMBER this whole situation is far from over..it will continue UNTIL there is an ELECTION!

Once there is an ELECTION then you YELLOW SHIRT Sympathizers will have to be on the side of the REAL TERRORISTS! As the YELLOW SHIRTS will make their move.

So you ask where is the end of this conflict? I think if you study what is really going on here you will find the answer!

Let there be no mistake my shirt is RED!

Get over it! The election already happened and the reds lost. Period. And lost big time in the most recent elections. It does not look good for them in the future...especially if their war chest is locked up and they can't bribe the locals!!!!

Sure, they will still have pockets of supporters in Issan, but the majority of Thailand will not vote their way...

My word how ignorant of the facts some people are.

The "Reds" have won every election for over a decade.

The Democrats have lost every election for over a decade.

Sadly democracy cannot overcome the power of the military and the old corrupt Bangkok elite who have stolen power from the reds by a coup (military and judicial).

What is going on now is the total destruction of the Reds financial backers so that they are neutered ahead of an election.

Obama needed 600M US$ to get elected, if Obama supporters in the US had all their finances frozen he would never have won the election.

The Thai Junta know what they are doing, however their action is becoming more overt now and the more overt it is the more and more people will be able to see clearly how corrupt they all are and that its nothing to do with Thaksin, its a grab for power by the old corruptos to reduce democracy to zero within Thailand, so the Thai Junta can rule for ever more............

Absolutely there must be NO AMNESTY.

None at all.

Its already been clearly said that as part of the deal proposed to amnesty some reds that ALL CRES, Army, officials will be given amnesty (as well as by precedent all Yellow and Multi-Colour Shirts).

This is purely a ploy by those in power to whitewash everything.

There must be no amnesty for anybody, not for reds and not for any soldier, any official, any politician, anyone at all.

Everyone must be tried and face courts (be it now or in 10 years time) for everything they have done.