LevelHead

This report of Police firing at Soldiers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE64D0BJ20100514

A key event in certain peoples thinking for any civil war will be the watermelon elements of the Thai army joining with Police and taking on the rest.

This is well worth a read into "Who shot SD ?"

http://thailandtrouble.blogspot.com/2010/0...-seh-daeng.html

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Another journo shot. A Canadian Nelson Rand

http://www.france24.com/en/20100514-france...hes-nelson-rand

Is this the same Nelson Rand who wrote the book Conflict: Journeys through war and terror in Southeast Asia

From that article:

'On Wednesday, a military spokesman warned that “snipers would be deployed” around the barricaded camp'

Hadn't seen that anywhere else.

I know, real news tends to get buried by the mass of pro-Yellow/PAD type posters.

They said snipers would be deployed, next day - well, you know what happened next.

Burn baby burn

If I were so inclined, I think I would bet on a real fight breaking out.

I am watching the reds and they still hold the Sukhumvit World area.

Their men in Black, if given the orders, will shoot down army by the hundreds or thousands.

That will be the start of either a war or Chaos or complete and utter collapse of the current system.

They are angry.

They know who Generals are and where they live.

The Current regime has chosen to assassinate a Red while he was giving an interview for the Wall Street Journal.

Do they think they are bullet proof?

The men in black might take revenge.

Sadly you could be right.

Abhisit is an idiot for what it seems letting Yellow army elements carry out this execution.

The divide between the 2 sides of the Army will widen further, if the watermelon side joins with the police against the honeydew melon army side - then the civil war will happen and it will be ugly.

Perhaps the MIB will just seek revenge ?

I can see many "elite" never going out in public again, and people like Abhisit and Suthep will have many people wishing, and maybe trying, to........ well you know what these people will want to do to them, Thai's are very much into revenge and they are patient to wait, memories like elephants when it comes to exacting revenge.

Sad, but I think the step over the edge has now been taken.

Thailand was a MESS before Sondhi bank rolled Thaksin into power, calling him 'the best PM ever'.

Thailand will be a MESS when new figures replace the currents 'actors'.

Thailand's MESS IS bigger than Thaksin AND Sondhi, times 10!~

I can agree with the comment there - that is correct eggo.

And all because of the PAD in 2006 and the subsequent illegal coup which threw the best ever constitution Thailand had, into the bin.

The coup leaders in 2006 should have their immunity revoked (why are they immune from prosecution anyway) and be tried for treason. That might stop coups in future.

Thats what the PAD say !

Thats what the Yellow media has written.

The truth is very much different.

Under Thaksin the poor were happy.

Under Thaksin the old Elite were not happy as he was taking "their money" - the corruption money they always got was suddenly being taken away.

Thaksin was taking from the rich and giving lumps of it to the poor - he may not have been perfect but he was the best thing every for the poor.

So of course the Elite hated him.

An illegal coup came out to kick him out.

His name was dragged through the dirt using all means possible, making up all sorts of stories and it was a complete "set up".

What part of that do you not understand ?

The old Elite are the most corrupt in Thailand, always have and are trying to always be....... Thaksin might have been corrupt but he was never as bad as them.

If you fail to appreciate just how bad and corrupt those who persecute Thaksin are, and fail to understand why they are targetting him, then you really do not know anything about the past 10 years.

That is not what PAD says, that is not an opinion that are facts! I was here when the elections happened, when he got so many no votes that he could not fill the parliament, when his care taker time was expired, when he did not go to the King to tell that he failed. When he opened the parliament with less MP than necessary in the constitution. That are facts. Also fact is that some poor areas love him so much that not even 20 % vote for him even there is no other party.

And I did not even mentioned the vote buying yet.....

And this shows that you were not here.

Votes for TRT were far more than the "no vote".

The "no vote" was requested by the Democrats who asked people not to take part in the elections in order to invalidate them.

So TRT "won" nearly all the seats, but as Democrats did not run (and alleged PAID other parties not to run - which they got a Yellow card for) TRT could not claim the seat as the vote was invalid as there was no competition.

SO, you were not here and you do not know the FACTS.

Stop posting lies please and STICK WITH THE FACTS.

Notice protesters are using sling shots and petrol bombs.

Army using live ammo and rubber bullets and tear gas.

Protestors dead (shot). Camera men shot. Civilians shot ?

Soldiers not ?

And they claim to be abiding by international rules ?

What's that, assassinate one red by sniper fire, poison others and then go on a rampage killing and maiming others with live ammo ? Not very "standard"......well not in my opinion.

CMF ... what part don't you understand about voting and parliament in Thailand?

You know ... people vote for MPs ... MPs vote for PM. The people voted. Abhisit is PM.

MPs banned? Parties banned? Tanks in BKK? Coups? what is it YOU don't understand?

Coup ousting a care-taker PM - Illegal. Elections - PPP 40%, Democrats 40%.

MPs banned for electoral fraud. By-elections to replace them.

Parties disbanded and Executives banned for electoral fraud. By-elections to replace them.

Every electorate has voted for MPs and everyone is represented. The majority of MPs voted for Abhisit as PM.

What else do I need to understand?

The coup ousted an illegal care-taker PM, who was complete outside the constitution. He was a caretaker Dictator in an single party parliament which was not filled fully. He bought the EC. The coup was to bring back democracy, but it brought back vote buying.

Thats what the PAD say !

Thats what the Yellow media has written.

The truth is very much different.

Under Thaksin the poor were happy.

Under Thaksin the old Elite were not happy as he was taking "their money" - the corruption money they always got was suddenly being taken away.

Thaksin was taking from the rich and giving lumps of it to the poor - he may not have been perfect but he was the best thing every for the poor.

So of course the Elite hated him.

An illegal coup came out to kick him out.

His name was dragged through the dirt using all means possible, making up all sorts of stories and it was a complete "set up".

What part of that do you not understand ?

The old Elite are the most corrupt in Thailand, always have and are trying to always be....... Thaksin might have been corrupt but he was never as bad as them.

If you fail to appreciate just how bad and corrupt those who persecute Thaksin are, and fail to understand why they are targetting him, then you really do not know anything about the past 10 years.

Getting back to Sah Daeng, it must be obvious to everyone that :

Seh Daeng attempted assassination plus the red guards being drugged all on the same night, the night before the army moves in..........

Well its obvious who did it, however it is surprising that the "government" (the obvious candidate) would be so brazen as to do it and then just deny it, anyone who can work out 2+2=4 should be able to see within milliseconds what has happened here.

If it was last week then the link would not be so obvious as to doing it just before the crackdown starts, that stinks of just complete contempt for the law, mind you, a coup is also complete contempt for the laws of a country - so it all links in really ?

This might be the death nail in Abhisits reputation on the international stage, if it was not slaughtered already.

I'd like to know how the army drugged the red guards.

Until yesterday, the army supplied the water to the red shirts. Unbelievable? It's true.

Dis info alert. There have been pictures of public fire hydrants used by the reds. They have installed complete water systems to them. Other reports of water being sourced from police facilities.

Try reading this story.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Reds-...u-30129297.html

Always engage brain before mouth (or in this case typing fingers).

.

A country out of control

A government out of control

All because of an illegal coup in 2006.

Shame on them all, the PAD in 2006, the Army in 2006 and shame on all those who perpetuated the ills of that coup ever since to this day.

Getting back to Sah Daeng, it must be obvious to everyone that :

Seh Daeng attempted assassination plus the red guards being drugged all on the same night, the night before the army moves in..........

Well its obvious who did it, however it is surprising that the "government" (the obvious candidate) would be so brazen as to do it and then just deny it, anyone who can work out 2+2=4 should be able to see within milliseconds what has happened here.

If it was last week then the link would not be so obvious as to doing it just before the crackdown starts, that stinks of just complete contempt for the law, mind you, a coup is also complete contempt for the laws of a country - so it all links in really ?

This might be the death nail in Abhisits reputation on the international stage, if it was not slaughtered already.

Anyone who celebrates Death is beneath contempt and deserves to be treated in that manner.

But more power to the people who are celebrating all the lives that will be saved by this one death.

'...WILL be saved'.....'Really? That remains to be seen - if he is seen as a martyr by the 'redshirt movement', then more deaths not less may be the tragic result.

I think those who believe that Sae Dengs departure from the scene means the end of the mob are too optimistic. The leaders have too much to loose to stop now.

The ex General will have his terrorists organized in a way that if the head should be captured or killed, there will be a replacement taking over immediately. Even a Thai General would think that far.

The only way to stop this thing will be for the government forces to move in and arrest the lot.

On that note, a humble suggestion on how to stop it with minimal or even no loss of live on both sides:

Fill fire fighting Helicopters with the dirtiest Klong water in Bangkok, with water soluble CN gas mixed in in high doses. Do the same with the water canons. Spray the mob with this every 2 hours for 24 hours.

The CN gas in the water will cause unbearable itching .... the Klong water will cause immediate infections of the wound caused by scratching

A trillion flies will arrive shortly after the first application and make life even more miserable.

Every 4 hours drop CS gas canisters from helicopters

while all this is happening make sure the area is tightly sealed and no one can get out. I make every bet, after 48 hours they will be begging to leave and by their own free will they will enter trucks that will take them to a detention camp where they will be cleaned up and treated before the buff's will be send back to Isaan and the Terrorist and the leaders arrested.

A smelly but non violent solution

Why do you think it will be over if the protests are cleared ?

Might it not then become a non stop barrage of bombs and shootings ( one or two a week) for ever more in Bangkok, just as it is now in the South ?

Is the government going to keep SOE over 16 provinces for a year ?

This resembles now the Elites clinging on to power by using the big stick...... desperate not to have elections, desperate to kill and maim to cling on to power.

Those who think its all over by clearing this protest today must be totally mad....... it looks like this will carry on, in one form or another for a very long time to come, unless there is an election and very very soon.

The South should have taught everyone that the Army shooting people causes more to join the cause, not make the problem go away. The South is an ongoing issue for how many years now ?

Shooting this guy in full view of the international media was an incredibly stupid thing to do, and it won't solve anything. The reds are armed to the teeth, with a gun in almost every Thai house. Driving this conflict underground by shooting people has far reaching consequences that are too awful to contemplate.

The only way out of this mess is through dialogue, democratic process and unbiased justice.

Well said.

The Army shooting people has not solved the problems in the South, it has made things worse

If you remove the reds from Rajaprasong tomorrow and use brutal force, I think you can be sure that bombings and shootings will rock Bangkok every week for months and perhaps years to come.

Thai's work on the principle of "an eye for eye".

This all stated with the PAD in 2006 followed by the illegal coup, and it will get more "tit for tat" the longer it goes on.

After having a bullet through the head I am surprised Sae Daeng is still alive, I presume that they have him on a heart pump and respirator, desperate not to let him die and become a martyr.

In other words he is likely dead, but machines will keep him alive rather than have to deal with his murder.

Shooting him in full view of the international media was a crazy thing for Abhisit/Suthep and the Army to do - if it was them who ordered it and they would be the most likely suspects given they have openly said "live anno and shoot to kill".

Sad state of affairs, how many more must die today and tomorrow to support the Elite/PAD desires ?

Not sure what will be the result of the shooting of Seh Daeng -- but in most western countries -- this action that was taken would be illegal (whether he deserved it or not). He was a citizen of the country, he was not holding hostages, there was no imminent danger, he was not pointing a weapon at police, and was taken out by a sniper. Simply, this was an extra-judicial assassination.

The PM and Army chief would step down, in disgrace.

However, this is Thailand and as can be seen, if you sucker up to the Elites you can do anything you want.

So nothing will happen - at all.

Hmm, is anyone modding this thread? There are several posters who should be banned for their comments

Simon

Indeed. Some fine examples of disgusting human behaviour.

Here here !!

Hopefully many will get very long bans.

Disgusting some of the posts on here claiming how "good it is" for someone to be shot.

I hope Jatupon takes on Seh Daeng single handed, reds fighting reds at Lumpini Park, that would be fun.

There are no issues with the reds.

Its all the Yellow propaganda nonsense.

Thaksin is dead, he is dying, he is in a coma, he was dead, he is dead, he is coming back to be "President for Life", that would be after he gets over being dead, and he is sick as well as dead, and also in a coma as well as dead.

Reds are fighting themselves, they will take it down, not they will put it up, no they will take it down, they are arguing, and are happy together and are fighting and are not and are.......

ITS ALL YELLOW NONSENSE from the Yellow propaganda machine.

Lies Lies Lies and more lies seems to be what is pumped by them.

Remember this is the McD's used by red shirt leaders.

Who might want to bomb it ?

Team Yellow ?

Annoying though I'm sure this protest is for you guys living in BKK, just remember that these guys had their government overthrown by force, a gerrymandered constitution effectively imposed on them, their new government beseiged by paid hirelings (yellow shirts), and their political party banned by the establishment leaning judiciary.

when the deomocratic route is closed off, this kind response is, sadly, fairly inevitable.

Well said sir !!

Post more often.

It is disgusting and disgraceful that this hospital incident has been used as propaganda by Team Yellow, and patients have been moved for no reason other than for photo's by the craving Yellow media channels.

The Reds did not take weapons in.

They hurt nobody.

They beat nobody.

They killed nobody.

Nobody died.

Nobody suffered.

It was just a minor inconvenience for a short period of time.

What is disgusting is the Yellow media making all this patient moving happen just so they can take photo's for the propaganda.

BANGKOK: -- The red-shirt protesters at the Lumpini Park refused to remove the bunkers on Rajdamri Road in front of Chulalongkorn Hospital in line with the order of the leaders at the Rajprasong Rally site.

Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader, announced at the Rajprasong rally site that the leaders sent Suporn Atthawong to remove the bunkers in front of the hospital.

But when Suporn arrived at the Saladaeng Intersection at 11 am, he encountered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdiphol, who would not allow the removal.

... now where was that red self-destruct button?

And who is reporting this ? YELLOW MEDIA PROPAGANDA.

How do you KNOW what is being said ?

It looks like last night they decided to rebuild it and thats it. When they want to take it down they will, but not before.

As Suthep has ordered it taken down it appears there is now a chance to make him back his words up, hence leaving it in place now perhaps ?

Who knows for sure oh Red One? I just think the governent look like having the upper hand at the moment. The longer they sit back now, the more likely the reds are likely to totally lose the plot, start in-fighting and blow themselves apart. As a result of their incredibly bad PR over the last week, many who were slightly symapathetic to the movement to begin with are now quite appalled by their actions and blatant lies. They are losing momentum, running out of ideas and beginning to draw widespread condemnation. Give 'em enough rope and they will certainly hang themselves

The Reds said they would "ramp up" pressure to prove the government is not in control of the country.

Looks to me like they are proving that ?

A test here is now will Suthep clear the barricades ? or is he not in control ?

Playing games ? I think the reds are...... allowing Team Yellow enough rope to slowly hang themselves.

No, but I would suggest :

Team Yellow army commanders allowed troops to use live ammo on protestors on April 10th, before getting shot themselves.

Team Yellow is likely behind the Silom BTS attack.

Team Yellow is likely behind this McD's attack.

amongst many other things which will not be listed here.

Do you have any evidence to support these beliefs? You are certainly welcome to your beliefs. We all are, but what is your reasoning?

Do you have any evidence to support anything different ? I mean you have a government in place who refuse UN Independent Investigations, who control the media, who have censored the opposition internet and media, who control most of the camera's in Bangkok. Where is the "evidence" to not support those beliefs ?

And why does the government refuse to have UN Independent investigations ?

If anyone here is of "neutral shirt" but HATES CORRUPTION then I would suggest you :

Look very closely at all spending in the next budget. Look out for projects that will go to tenders, the big ones.

Monitor who wins the subsequent tenders in late 2010 and early 2011 and their potential relationships with the present ruling government coalition MP's.

Will you find a pattern.......... ?? Well, investigate it and see what you find.

I'm sure there will be a pattern. Is there anyone here who thinks the current government is completely clean? I doubt it. Is there anyone who thinks that if the reds get in power the pattern will cease to exist? Any takers?

Well the pattern needs looking into.

Corruption must be wiped out. All eyes of the world must watch the Thai budget and see who wins the subsequent work. Stamp out corruption.

So it appears there could be massive corruption in the coming Thai budget. Everyone needs to keep a watch on it.

BANGKOK: -- The red-shirt protesters at the Lumpini Park refused to remove the bunkers on Rajdamri Road in front of Chulalongkorn Hospital in line with the order of the leaders at the Rajprasong Rally site.

Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader, announced at the Rajprasong rally site that the leaders sent Suporn Atthawong to remove the bunkers in front of the hospital.

But when Suporn arrived at the Saladaeng Intersection at 11 am, he encountered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdiphol, who would not allow the removal.

... now where was that red self-destruct button?

And who is reporting this ? YELLOW MEDIA PROPAGANDA.

How do you KNOW what is being said ?

It looks like last night they decided to rebuild it and thats it. When they want to take it down they will, but not before.

As Suthep has ordered it taken down it appears there is now a chance to make him back his words up, hence leaving it in place now perhaps ?

Now if Team Yellow would not have massive oppressive censorship of the media and internet in Thailand, then we all could watch and listen to Red TV and we would know for sure what was being said, and we would not have to be confused by what YELLOW MEDIA wants us to think they are saying and making up stories of what they are said to have said.

But then, you cannot have massive propaganda in place if you allow media freedom.

So you see why Team Yellow has in place censorship and no media freedom in Thailand presently.

Remember the accusations against Thaksin for being "anti free press".

Abhisit goes down on the record now as being "worse than Thaksin" in terms of actually being in charge whilst implementation of media restrictions and censorship and what appears to be a massive propaganda play.