LevelHead

Maybe they can investigate the 3,000 extra-judicial killings that took place under Thaksin's "war on drugs", too.

If Abhisit (yes, the supposed messiah of thai politics etc),

walks away scot free for the extra-judicial killings under his leadership,

its pretty much a carte blanche for PMs past and present to get away with murder.

Precisely and exactly why Mr. Thaksin was removed, exactly why there was a coup, and exactly why Thailand must succeed in it's first attempt to clean up it's political landscape. If Thaksin is to have any legacy at all, it will be that corruption became so great, the Thais had to fix their system.

But how can a clean up happen under a Democrat government. They are allegedly the most corrupt of them all and recent history backs this up.

There is awful levels of corruption ongoing now, and has been since 2007, Thailand is climbing back up the world corruption ladder again.

So how can one on the alleged "most corrupt" party, and one that is presently in power whilst the corruption rating is rising....... how can they clean up anything ?

The sheer vast levels of media control, suppression and propaganda can tell you that things are far from clean, and in fact are getting dirtier and dirtier........

I get the feeling there is no "real" plan for any reconciliation.

All that appears to be happening is "revenge and retribution" against anyone they can remotely link to being "red".

The protests should have been put down by the police, using tear gas and batons, as was the case against the PAD when the PPP government were in power. Things were done correctly using the Police.

The present government has made clear errors, by not using the police.

The next error was calling the army.

The next error was allowing the army to use lethal force.

Why did they not use the police ? They should never have called in the army.

If the government has no control over the police then it should have stood down and had elections and allowed a new government in that had the power.

I am afraid the "double standards" are going to get worse and worse.

Has the Bangkok governor been moved to an inactive post as Bangkok burnt ? NO

So why has the governors of Isaan provinces been moved to inactive posts because there were fires in their provinces ?

Has any Bangkok police chiefs been moved for failing to control the crowds ? for failing to follow orders ? NO

So why have police chiefs in Isaan been moved to inactive posts due to the fires ?

It is clear that horrendous double standards are still ongoing. If the government did not use the police then

Why ?

And if the answer is not obeying orders then.... why has no Bangkok police been moved to inactive posts ?

It seems there are strange double standards going on, very strange.

Hi Level Head,

You state that "It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly"

Where has this been reported?

Do you have a link to the original story?

Also stating that cutting off peoples internet access is an infringement of basic human rights, may be a bit of a stretch.

The red shirts were gathered illegally, and the response that they got was a long time coming.

In any other country on earth they would have been moved on with force after hours, not weeks.

Case in point, Akkaradej Khankaew from Kalasin.

//URL removed by Admin

On your other point the illegal gathering should have been dealt with by police, with tear gas and batons if necessary, as was the case under the PPP government. It should not have been dealt with by the Army, and the use of the army, and using of live ammo by the army is something that is going to be investigated by top human rights and war crimes lawyers, as it should be.

The world is going to ask why the police were not used, why no attempt was made to use them and why the government so quickly brought in the army with the ability to use lethal force against civilians.

If it transpires the government is not in control of its police force due to questions over its legitimacy or whatever, then a government not in control should have made way for elections for a new government that is.

One of the sad things here is that the likes of Abhisit, Suthep, Newin and others will never be able to lead a normal life again. Some people might be happy over that, however I think its sad.

Always the problem when civilians are killed, but also in this case a man with many dangerous friends was killed too.

Certain people will probably always now be worried, whether its today, next month, next year, 5 years time or whenever that they might just be walking by a window, or outside somewhere and whoosh, a sniper shot comes ringing in.

The Thai's often have a very long memory when it comes to revenge and retribution, and as per the defense ministers concerns, I think he is probably right, certain people will need massive protection now, likely for the remainder of their lives.

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

It is very sad to see army snipers allegedly shooting to kill civilians. It is very sad to see many people reported "missing" and the CRES is not willing to post lists of names of people held in detention. We have seen pictures of red shirts and monks blindfolded and handcuffed, and many people have not returned home. Why is the CRES unwilling to release the list of names of all detained people and where they are ?

It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly, with relatives insisting the cause of death is changed to bullet wound to the head as for some reason this was not recorded as the cause of death even though there is a bullet wound directly through the head. No idea why some people appear to be trying to cover up the cause of death ?? Any ideas ?

Media freedoms and basic human rights were allegedly infringed with the cutting off of media access, internet access, web site access and many other forms of basic human rights.

A full, thorough and proper investigation by international rights experts and war crimes lawyers is a good way of ensuring that if there are any breaches here, they will be found out, and it will also ensure such breaches, if they happened, will never happen again.

If anyone here cares about Thai's they will have no objections to this investigation.

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

No green armband, no clear idea of who shot him, and he's standing in the middle of a gun battle..... sorry, but I don't feel sorry for him.

I thought "international standards" would dictate someone lying on the floor screaming for help, waving their hands for help should not be shot.

Obviously Abhisit and his Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition governments idea is that this is fine ? They are in charge, the army are only carrying out their orders given by the government.

16 dead - all protesters.

Shot with live ammo.

So who is using live ammo ?

Soldiers shot dead according to reports ? Zero

Who is using lethal force in an indiscriminate way ? Government side.

16 dead.

No soldiers.

Who is using "live ammo" ?

Certainly looks like its just the Government side, those who should be trying to stop violence and killing, but they are the ones doing the killing.

There is now evidence of army shooting people waving white flags, army shooting children, army shooting red shirts in the head (how many are dead now from bullet wounds?).

This is not "international standards" and shows just how desperate that Abhisit and the Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition are to cling to power and money at all costs......

Can you please point out, at what stage in the video, anyone was being shot.

And children??? You are part of the red propaganda parade, aren't you!!!

Please take the time to keep up with events and stop being so aggressive......

From the update thread for Sat - child with bullet wounds.

webfact

Today, 2010-05-15 08:00:27

Post #19

Group: Admin

Posts: 11,135

Joined: 2003-02-11

Member No.: 327

3 injured as van trying to clash through security checkpoint at Makkasan

A van was speeding to the security checkpoint under the Airport Link Makkasan station at about 30 minutes after midnight, prompting troops to fire at it.

After the van was stopped because of the firing, troops found three persons inside. They were severely injured with bullet wounds. One of them is a boy, who appears to be 10 years old.

The driver has apparently drunk.

-- The Nation 2010-05-15

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

OMG that is certainly danming evidence against the yellowshirts. People waving white flags in surrender and the shooting of foriegn jurno again after it is clearly visible he is wounded and begging for help. That is straight out attemted murder. The only threat he poses is revealing the truth so kill him I guess was thier reason.

There is now evidence of army shooting people waving white flags, army shooting children, army shooting red shirts in the head (how many are dead now from bullet wounds?).

This is not "international standards" and shows just how desperate that Abhisit and the Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition are to cling to power and money at all costs......

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Very damning.

Abhisit and his Democrat/Bhumjathai coalition just get more and more blood on their hands as they try to cling to power regardless to the loss of life.

http://twitter.com/tukky_nt

RT @paisal_nt: Bon Kai community is expected to be a major battlefield tonight as fresh protesters turned up to confront troops.

In order not to read banned posters coming back as new poster names I now "ignore" (by using the ignore function) all new registered posters from May 10th onwards.

It tends to clean up the board and remove lots of drivel I find

Anyway, things do seem to be kicking off in many places around Bangkok now, given its Saturday tomorrow and loads more people heading into Bangkok it could spread city wide (more so than now) by later tomorrow.

Lets hope not, lets hope Abhisit finds some sense and simply dissolves the house and calls for elections, I mean, what is he so scared of if he thinks he is legitimate and loved by the majority ? How many more people must die before this sham of a government stops clinging to power "at all costs regardless to loss of life".

I don't see how anyone can watch that video and call them "peaceful protesters" I think the army is showing way to much patience here. Forget rubber bullets. It's time to bring out the real hardware.

DISGUSTING!! These are just kids drafted from the provinces into the Army no?

This pretty much seals the deal for me...send in the big guns and clean house....NOW!!

No blood..... looks like he fell out of the lorry and took a hard landing.

If you are part of an army who is shooting and killing civilians then you have to expect the rest of the civilian population to be pretty much anti-army.

Most farangs cannot understand this and its why you see all these "shoot them up" calls, but this is Thailand and the army is a known problem and is tolerated by the people, but if they step over the line the people will turn against them, as you see in that video.... normal people upset and wanting to stop the army from killing more people.

People around ducked and run away due to gun shot ringing out and the soldier fell to the ground, while those around scramble to regain composure and then carries the shot soldier to a van.

But in red propaganda eyes a soldier fell to the ground as he tripped when he jumped out of a truck, when they where on a picknick...invited by peaceful hippies.

*sigh*

Had he been shot you would have seen it in the news already claiming "soldier shot".

It seems everyone is getting shot in the head, he appears not to be shot anywhere, no blood at all.

Sorry, perhaps you see blood, can you point out where it is ?

Party mode still down at the Rally site.

http://www.uddthailand.com/

Watching the live video feed. Packed with people.

I don't see how anyone can watch that video and call them "peaceful protesters" I think the army is showing way to much patience here. Forget rubber bullets. It's time to bring out the real hardware.

DISGUSTING!! These are just kids drafted from the provinces into the Army no?

This pretty much seals the deal for me...send in the big guns and clean house....NOW!!

No blood..... looks like he fell out of the lorry and took a hard landing.

If you are part of an army who is shooting and killing civilians then you have to expect the rest of the civilian population to be pretty much anti-army.

Most farangs cannot understand this and its why you see all these "shoot them up" calls, but this is Thailand and the army is a known problem and is tolerated by the people, but if they step over the line the people will turn against them, as you see in that video.... normal people upset and wanting to stop the army from killing more people.

Reports coming now of Suthep being shot in the head by an army officer.

Would be believable if the only source wasn't another red poster...

You call that 'reports coming in'?

The person I heard it from isn't a red supporter, for what it's worth. Put me on ignore if you don't want to read it, sorry for disturbing.

Spreading rumors at a time like this is irresponsible and totally unnecessary. In some places it could even be called fear mongering. You should seriously consider stopping it and comment on verified information only.

Like the Nations never ending release of "Thaksin is dead again"..... how many times has he died now ?

No, all snippets and rumours should be stated as such, so people can take them with a pinch of salt until they are confirmed or not.

Provided they are clearly said to be rumour, and if numerous posters are hearing the same thing then there MIGHT be something in the rumour.

You will also note Abhisit and Suthep have "gone missing" and are not visible or giving any interviews. Something appears to have happened.

Thai's are very much into revenge.

Thais, 95% of whom are Buddhist and world famous for mai pen rai, are not very much in to revenge.

This is your own twisted Western thinking deluding you.

You believe that ?

I think you must not know any Thai's then.

Why are we are where we are in Bangkok ?

Why are people being shot by snipers ?

Thai's will never accept a loss of "face"...... "mai pen rai" - thats what they write in tourist books.

Where are Abhisit and Suthep? Shouldn't they be addressing the nation in this time of crisis?

They are busy trying to come up with a story to explain why the army keeps shooting at a Canadian Journalist lying on the floor saying "help me help me.."

Thats the risk you take being in the hot spot, the war zone, on the front line. Why do they own any explanations?

Rumours around Suthep has been shot by someone in the Army camp.

If it transpires Suthep gave the ok to the shooting of SD, then someone doing that to him would not be a surprise.

Interesting to see if Suthep gives any news briefs now.

Keep a watch, Abhsit is also missing presently........ ???

Where are they both ?

Am I the only one who's heard, quite some time ago, that Dep. P.M. Suthep has been shot in the head by an Army officer?

ps: unconfirmed but from two different directions

Looks like its kicking off.

Shooting SD was stupid and it might be the step too far that results in one hellish night in Bangkok.

The Reds and their supporters have proven time and again that they are militants and supporters of violence, not peaceful protesters. The government has every right to crack them down and decapitate the militant leaders.

Violence has only followed when the government has been aggressive and provoked.

The problems all started with the shutting down of PTV - an unconstitutional and provocative move by Abhisit/Suthep.

Find a placid dog and poke it in the eye..... see if the placid dog will bite you.

Provoke and you will reap what you sow is the general rule.

That was after the reds had threatened to storm a military base, stormed parliament, and also set themselves up in Ratchaprasong. Who was doing the provoking?

I think your general rule is playing out tonight against the provokers.

No.... government cut off PTV, leading to those events.

Provocation by the government, everytime.

The Reds and their supporters have proven time and again that they are militants and supporters of violence, not peaceful protesters. The government has every right to crack them down and decapitate the militant leaders.

Violence has only followed when the government has been aggressive and provoked.

The problems all started with the shutting down of PTV - an unconstitutional and provocative move by Abhisit/Suthep.

Find a placid dog and poke it in the eye..... see if the placid dog will bite you.

Provoke and you will reap what you sow is the general rule.

5 grenades just shot at soldiers at Rajaprasong. 5 minutes of shooting followed. Then another grenade, now sporadic fire.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, is AUA open today?

I am going to go get a drink at the outdoor nana bar.

I really do think this thing could become all out war.

It was a real bad idea to assasinate the red General.

Now the Reds might assassinate some pro Regime Generals.

It could be open season on all generals.

Thai's are very much into revenge.

Its said the Yellow Army Colonel blown up on the 10th was targeted as he led the anti-red crackdown in 2009.

Now Yellow revenge is to kill SD.

So SD's "men" will now enact revenge, but at a much higher level, on the Yellow army persons.

It could easily now turn into something very much bigger, the snowball has been launched off of the top of the mountain it seems.

1) The 2007 election didn't return a Thaksin majority. Had the minor parties not lied to their constituents PPP would not have been able to form a government. The Dems didn't cry about it. They went on and were an active opposition party until PPP was disbanded for PROVEN electoral fraud by a party executive.

2) Thaksin's failed snap elections were just that ... failed

3) The ONE TRT Majority was when Thaksin bought, coerced, whatever ... the local political machines in Isaan. Those same groups have abandoned him.

4) the 2001 elections did not return a majority for TRT.

That covers the first quoted post .........

The rest (excluding the last) just bought into the uninformed informations or deliberate disinformation in the first post.

The last ..... well ... if he sees that as acceptable (or even believes it) then "He's been in Asia too long." :-)

How many times does these same old distortions have to be corrected ?

1/ Had the election not been held under what was in effect martial law in places, and had the army not spend millions on "re-education of the rural poor on how to vote", had the Democrats not been allowed to do whatever they want, then the PPP would have got many more votes and seats. There are allegations of vote rigging and many other things to try to keep the PPP numbers down.

2/ You fail to mention that the Democrats paid small parties to not take part in elections and also refused themselves, therefore that many seats that won with majority TRT votes against all total no votes/other parties were simply invalidated as no other party run. The Democrats plan to stop TRT winning - by abusing the electoral system.

Perhaps if you would stop distorting the truth by selectively missing much out and start admitting how corrupt the Democrats appear to have been and how since 2006 until now there has been systematic abuse of the systems of media and control and justice in Thailand.

Reports on Thai television about army and red shirts joining up. Not sure if it's just one group of the army or what's happening.

It could happen........ this is where civil war suddenly becomes much more likely, and in this event (if it were to happen) Yellow/Elite will lose and will be wiped out unless they all jump on places and leave the country.

The shooting of SD and the crackdown might be the step over the edge.......... its very worrying.