14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I agree that the condemnation aren't quite as 'lively' or numerous or well-spread as the expressions of outrage when what's seen as transgressions against their religions are concerned. Maybe not all that surprising - hate, rage, fear and violence are strong emotions, and easily excitable.

 

But jumping from this to assertions that they all (or most of them) support this or that? How so? Again - maybe it should be compared with how things go in the West (and factoring for the West's longer tradition of people being involved in open public discourse). Better education, social tolerance and the like got something to do with it as well.

 

I'm sure many Muslims support violence against 'infidels' etc., I don't know that it's most, and sure that it's not all. Also, support doesn't necessarily equate with getting into in person. I'd  venture that in this, they are quite like most people - big on talk, less so when push comes to shove.

Questions to people saying that these terrorists  do not represent Islam: What about tens / hundreds of thousands of people who protest in the Muslim World... screaming / promising "death to the French" , "death to France", "death to Macron" etc following Macron's speech on Free Speech?  Doing so they clearly support the Islamists  terrorist and they applaud their killings.

Are they Muslims or they too have nothing to do with Islam?
Is this still a plot against Islam?

Do they too, misunderstand the Religion of Peace? 

7 minutes ago, solafr said:

I see Europe tightening since years but always more and more attacks...

So what are they tightening exactly ?

 

52 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Salafist quietism was never a problem for Erdogan and Macron.

 

Salafist jihadism on the other hand was countered in Iraq and Syria through the coalition forces including France and Turkey.

 

Both types of salafism share the same dogma which is totally the opposite of Western values.

 

It’s more important to focus on the triggers and (terrorist) consequences of Salafist jihadism, instead of trying to analyse the ideology.

 

Salafist ideologies have nothing to do with traditional Islam. Both are opposed.

 

3 most dangerous French Salafist jihadis from the last 10 years were French native men. They were commanders and/or recruiters.

There’s an estimated 3.600 native French people converting every year to Islam. Or 10 per day.

 

Latest modus operandi of Terrorist attacks or infiltration  is through the migration  tracks to Europe due to the fall of IS, AQ and other local franchise in Syria and Iraq.

 

I suppose that OP refers to internal coordination struggle between the coalition partners after the war in Syria...

Given that Muslim countries themselves have proven to be unable to sort out their political Islam rivalries, I very doubt we in France - non Muslim country are able to even monitor the scutiny required.

Given that family members of jihadists all decalre they noticed nothing alarming in terms of radicalization, I have no confidence in the ability of anyone to detect who is and who isn't;

Given that the number of potential Salafist - let's say 10% of the Muslim - the threat is huge, and it's by no way possible for a "disbeliever"  to check every potential  "suspect".

How is it even possible to someone in charge of recruiting staff to make the distinction - who is on the right side and who isn't? And at what stage?  

With all the migrants smuggling illegally from Muslim countries mainly into Europe, how is-it even possible to cope with the influx. when you don't know where the people are...

And who can you trust? 

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

not legitimizing anything - just pointing out these deaths were preventable with a little fore thought. Unfortunately, I don't see the same option going forward for it does appear the fuse is burning intensely..  

Not sure, the cartoons are a pretext, we had so many terror attacks, and more and more from individuals who then declared they couldn't stand living in a country of disbelievers - not mentioning the cartoons ( this year is special due to the ongoing Charlie Hebdo trial ) .. anyway normally, it's the chameleon that changes colour. 

If you ask French people if they want to change the fabric of their country the Muslim way, the answer is no. Absolutely no... unless you ask French Muslims who also have dual  nationalities.

But as usual, the most reasonable will give in - at a cost.  

But those who oppose free speech in France can always apply for asylum in China,     

14 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Ultimately, We regard him as Iconic!  Rest in Fun......

 

He's classy and sophisticated, like his female also iconic alter ego , Diana Rigg ,  gems forever

1 minute ago, teacherclaire said:

Erdogan, who has a history of fraught relations with Macron, said France was pursuing an anti-Islam agenda.

 

    France should send them all away. Their Euros are okay, but when a good teacher is using cartoon characters, they call it blasphemy? 

 

   If Muslims and Christians can't live together, why don't they move to Muslim countries, instead of European countries where they have nothing in common with?

 

And this guy wants to get his country to Europe. Not that the likes Europeans, he likes their currency only.

 

 That should have more severe reactions now coming from the West.  

 

France has the most important part of Muslim population in Europe for decades,   over 2500 Mosques and worship places , and they call it an anti-Islam agenda. It's laughable. 

We are just resisting rampant Islamisation, as we are a non Muslim country - and want to stay as such.

If you choose to live in France and embrace our core values, we don't care if you are a Muslim or not.

But If you oppose our Laws and consider Sharia Law prevails, then you're an Islamist and it's a different story.

Apparently it's difficult to understand.   

On 10/30/2020 at 12:33 PM, Morch said:

 

And your post is a deflection. Doesn't matter if you want to insist on it being an ideology or whether you 'accept' it as a religion. The questions posed above remain unanswered.

 

Note that this exchange is based solely on your inability to address your own post - in which you advocated mass deportations, without addressing moral or practical issues associated with taking such a path.

I' m totally for the mass deportation of illegal migrants who smuggled into France together with traffickers they support and vice versa, and have absolutely no problem with that. It's so obvious.

All my posts on this issue (fake asylum seekers, undocumented migrants, denied asylum status etc..)  say the same. Nobody opposing  this statement has been able to demonstrate all the benefits of illegal immigration for the host country.. I'm still waiting.

And yes Islam is a submissive political  ideology, and we have no such problems with religions - as private matters.    

         Sean Connery, perfect 

34 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

when he magazine was first taken to court the judges ruled that because the mag was targeting terrorism it wasn't in violation, clearly the depiction of Erdogan doesn't fall into that class. And you're absolutely correct, it does not give anyone the right to savagely murder. But if they allow the insults to continue there will be a price to pay with peoples lives. I guess if they feel these peoples lives are an equitable trade for their ability to wage this insult campaign then all is good then. As all involved know the likely outcome of continuing to disparage the Muslims will be blood then I guess that's the direction the country will take - just as long no one is surprised or shocked at what comes in the future. Fortunately covid is helping French security forces presently due to the massive lockdown, anyone on the street will be scrutinized. But as history has shown us, the ones with evil intent are very patient..

"It does not give anyone the right to savagely murder. But..  "

Really? 

You're just legitimizing those killings.

French Law prevails in France. Period. 

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

Mahathir says remarks on French attacks taken out of context

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mahathir-says-remarks-french-attacks-101516795.html

 

I'm not sure this 'explanation' would fare much better. Maybe even aggravate comments and views regarding his words. Either way, one would expect (yes, I know...) people of influence to be a tad more careful with their words.

Macron's words taken out of context. 

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

His brother:“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” Yassin told Reuters. “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

Conveniently forgetting about his earlier arrest because of violence.

yes, I was editing my post by the same time !

in another article they say he didn't even know about Charlie. 

15 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

An idiot behead an innocent woman and these morons complain about the other party. Stop subsiding these countries immediately.

Tunisian in deadly Nice terror attack turned to religion after teen troubles

Same causes, same consequences, same storytelling too... 

- One of 11 siblings, dropped out of high school and had worked as a motorcycle mechanic, - he had been arrested in his home country in 2016 for violence and using a knife. 

-“he drank alcohol and used drugs. I used to tell him, ‘we are poor and you’re wasting money?’ He would reply if God wills it, he will guide me to the right path, it’s my business’,” 

“My brother is a friendly person and never showed extremism,” “He respected all other people and accepted their differences even since he was a child.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tunisian-suspect-in-nice-attack-turned-to-religion-after-teenage-troubles/

"According to local media reports, a host of large supermarket chains in Saudi Arabia have replaced various Turkish products with products from Greece, in order to support Athens in its long-ongoing fight against Ankara over the maritime border in East Mediterranean."

https://eurasiantimes.com/turkey-urges-boycott-of-french-products-but-its-own-products-are-getting-boycotted-in-saudi-arabia/

.

28 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Freedom has absolute nothing to with this! They’re bullies under the disguise of freedom of speech, they intentionally enrage those lunatics and then they wonder when their people get killed! It doesn’t get more cretinous than that! 

We - in France - removed crucifix from our classrooms - submission to Muslim Brotherhood isn't an option. 

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

No face masks and safety distances in Bangladesh?

 Bangladesh presents the face of a moderate Muslim country in search of modernity

1 minute ago, pacovl46 said:

Sorry, mate! It’s absolutely not necessary to mock Islam or their prophet! There’s enough other stuff in the world they can make fun of and the guys who drew the cartoon and made the decision to publish it are directly responsible for the deaths of those poor innocent people because they were playing with fire. Is it justified to kill people over a cartoon? Definitely not! But that’s the length they’re willing to go to each and every single time. And every time they publish a new cartoon someone else will die. In my opinion the lives of these innocent people are not worth it! If you can’t see that, then fine, but don’t get on my back, if I don’t share your opinion! 

who fought for your freedom in your country?

Dacca's stop over on the flight to Asia is already a pain, what about an entire life in Bangladesh - don't change anything - and make sure to boycott France, please. 

10 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I have to say I am quite impressed with the reaction in France. When these attacks happen in the UK the authorities desperately try to conceal the (obvious) motive and religious background of the perpetrators for days. In France there was no time wasted pussy footing around.

 

I even have some admiration for Macron's aggressive response - and I've never been a fan of his. I hope this is followed up with some tough action. France cannot tolerate their citizens being mutilated by these religious nutcases for much longer, surely. 

An important part of French citizens and others living in France hate us - not for what we are - but for what we aren't and they don't understand why we don't bend to their demands,  this is the main reason why they try to impose their laws - by terror- or more insidIously trying to silence us by whining about Islamophobia.