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MikeyIdea
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Posts posted by MikeyIdea
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5 hours ago, Logosone said:
No, Spain, Italy, UK, Belgium, Russia all of these countries will hurt for a much longer period than Sweden.
I missed Russia, that is correct. I certainly don't believe that the other countries will hurt longer, probably shorter as they have the spread under control.
Sweden has backtracked you know, they now say that herd immunity never even was a goal
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1 hour ago, Logosone said:
Yes, interestingly we have seen no serious studies whatsoever of the impact of switching hospital services to focus on Covid19 at the expense of other illnesses and the cancellation of surgeries due to focusing on Covid19.
What was the real cost of Covid19 hysteria for the truly sick who had other illnesses?
Easy: It's exactly the same in Sweden. Everything that is not life threatening is closed down here too.
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3 hours ago, farang51 said:
The difference in expected GDP is hardly noticeable. However, there is one aspect of the economy I haven't seen mentioned anywhere; they will save a lot of pensions for old people in the coming years.
I haven't dared to mention it but I am glad you did. Sweden's original decision to not close down the country was purely economical. It's not only the pensions they don't have to pay out, elderly care costs 6 to 10 times more too. It's as simple as this: Elderly are not productive, they cost money for society.
It would have looked totally the opposite if this virus had hit the productive like the Spanish flu did. Problem is that they shot themselves in the foot. They called asymptomatic transmission "negligable" in the beginning, now they are quiet. 35% asymptomatic transmission according to CDCs latest estmate is a totally new ball game. They always said "stay at home directly when you get sick / Go home directly when you start to feel sick". I suppose they will say Stay at home a couple of days before you get sick next... Their strategy simply doesn't work with asymptomatic transmission.
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1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:
Yes but like we've said already, GDP reduction is expected to be less impacted plus they haven't spaffed 100s of billions up the wall paying people to have a holiday at home. That money could have been spent on hospitals etc.
So you don't see the economic argument against all these lockdowns?
If we take into consideration the time perspective, probably only to a small amount.
Look at the infected and deaths per population graphs for Europe, other countries (except the UK) go down pretty steeply and are looking quite good, Sweden only has a very slight decline.
Norway, Finland and Denmark have already said that they will not open their borders to Sweden when they open to other countries in the EU. The Swedish government's response was a bit quiet, we hope they won't descriminate... But its not a question of that, its just common sense. It's about risk, nothing else.
Sweden will hurt longer than other countries in Europe (except the UK) for sure.
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2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:
True but what we do know is most other countries have sacrificed their economies causing mass unemployment and knock on deaths, i call that a failure
That is happening in Sweden too you know. Sweden isn't living on a planet by its own
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6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:
That's from the fourth of April, too early to be accurate. Both German and Swedish tests show much lower percentages now
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7 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:
Some good news about Sweden, this time from the Telegraph, a few day old though.
(I apologize if that was posted here already, I haven't seen it yet.)
The first quarter, yes. That's because Sweden is further away from the epicentre and a month behind other countries in Europe
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10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:
i got the above from youtube search for "BBC Hardtalk Anders Tegnell" see if i got it wrong
You need to update your expectations according to the latest numbers from the latest official Swedish statistics, they are 7.3%
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9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:
The video i quoted said something different, let's see the results of the actual trial, due in a few days
7.3% is the number from the most current trial. Swedish health authorities are planning weeky updates.
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9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:
total garbage that. Such a sweeping vague statement. In the UK its widely accepted that people aren't going to hospital for cancer treatment, strokes, heart issues and other conditions and will cause more deaths, fact. No idea about other countries
It's exactly the same in Sweden. Swedish health authorities say openly that everything non life threatening is shut down
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40 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:in case, you did not know ...
hospitals are a business
patient dies of covid without ventilator = $13.000 payout for the hospital
patient dies of covid with ventilator = $39.000 payout for the hospital
now let's see what a hospital administrator will impose on patients
if patient has hypoxia = lack of oxygen, you actually might damage the lungs more with forcing a ventilator and they have to put old sick people to sleep with heavy medication, while they would not allow this if the heart is weak ...
they killed many people forcing the ventilator on them as this is "protocol" and out of the box thinking is not allowed for lawsuit reasons
Just in case you didn't know, hospitals in Sweden are NOT a business, they are all government hospitals paid with tax money via yearly budgets and the legal system doesn't support law suits for monetary gain.
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2 hours ago, farang51 said:
It should be noted that in both Denmark and Sweden, the hospitals have been able to handle the pressure from COVID-19 patients. When that is not the case, the ifr can be much higher.
Elderly in Sweden are dying in care homes without the care they need because they are systematically not moved to hospitals when they need.
In reality, the Swedish healthcare system can't cope. It's just politics.
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1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:
According to the video i quoted above they are doing a study now using a sample to estimate those you have had Corona, results in a week. Even Germany had 15% in their trial. Anders Trednell estimated it could be as high as 30-40%
Anders Tegnell, note the spelling, held a press conference on Swedish TV yesterday where he reported the latest numbers, 7.3%.
They were "a bit disappointing but not too far off the model predictions, 1 to 2 percent".
I like Anders, he's a really nice guy, I feel sorry for him.
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32 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:
You highlight the problem, it only takes account of one side of the argument. It needs to take account of deaths caused by lockdowns, i.e. not getting treated for cancer, heart problem, stroke. Apparently Sweden is continuing to treat these people
No, that is wrong. I don't know where you got that from. Swedish health authorities have openly said all the time from the beginning that they postpone everything that is not of life threatening nature.
Sweden is not treating those people.
It's in the today's newspaper even, a daughter of an elderly blamed the health authorities for that her father died because they postponed his operation.
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8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:You apparently come from a point of view that the majority must be sacrificed to save the elderly and infirm for a few more years. Significantly, the younger demographic that will suffer because of that policy were not asked if they agreed to suffer.
I'm elderly and infirm, and no one asked me if I wanted to be saved at the expense of younger generations. I don't.
Sweden lives in a world together with other countries, not on a planet by its own. There are lots of bankruptcies in Sweden too.
Herz isn't the only car rental company that has gone bankrupt. Swedish car rental companies also go bankrupt, taxi companies, hotels, transportation companies, restaurants, pubs and shops go bankrupt here too. Big companies like Volvo and Scania had to close their factories because of the worldwide supply chain disruptions and that made their local Swedish suppliers bleed. Scandinavian airlines have forloughed most of their employees.
Sweden has always had pretty high unemployment numbers but they are "picked up", shuffled around, the same happens now. Lots of people are forloughed, a lot of people have lost their jobs, they don't suffer as in other countries because tax money pays them. It's a system that makes refuges fleeing civil war travel from the south of Italy, through Austria, Germany and Denmark because they absolutely want to come to Sweden.
Being more open hurts the economy less of course but the difference is actually not as big as you'd think. And then comes the time perspective.
Norway, Finland and Denmark have already said that they will not open their borders to Sweden when they open to other countries in the EU. The Swedish government's response was a bit quiet, we hope they won't descriminate... But its not a question of that, its just common sense. It's about risk, nothing else.
Look at the infected and deaths per population graphs for Europe, other countries (except the UK) go down pretty steeply and are looking quite good, Sweden only has a very slight decline.
Swedish health authorities are now saying that only a disappointing 7.3% of the population have antibodies and herd immunity is not realistic. They have always downplayed asymptomatic transmission as miniscule but CDC now estimate that it accounts for approx. 35% of all cases. That makes the "stay at home if you are sick" advice laughable. It should be stay at home a couple of days before you get symptoms too...
Sweden will hurt longer than other countries in Europe (except the UK) for sure.
Future will tell if Sweden at the end of the day will win anything at all economically, or if it just was deaths for nothing. We'll see in October.
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2 hours ago, Puccini said:
From the news article in my previous post:
Could the health services have coped better and would consequently the death rate in Sweden have been lower than it has actually been if Sweden had been on the type of lockdown that other European countries enforced?
Yes, much lower.
The problem is that you can't really protect the elderly in Sweden the way the covid-19 response is implemented. Put them in care homes and they risk dying, let them be treated at home and they risk dying, in both cases because health care workers don't have proper protective equipment and they're not moved to hospital to protect the curve. Take care of them yourself and they are at risk because you can't protect yourself fully in a society where so many people don't care and you are forced by law to send your children to school where there is no social distancing. The kids must take public transportation to school and again, there's no social distancing there either.
School... Children in Sweden have a duty to go to school, not a duty to learn. Principals have threatened parents with handing over cases to the social authorities if they don't send their children to school. Then you have investigations if you are a suitable parent and their opinion always win, even more so if it is necessary to protect the system.
Media found out that 10 teachers in a school had tested positive for covid-19 and the school had to close for a while. Parents of children going to the school wanted to be tested. What did the health authorities do? Oh sh*t, we got to stop that... No tests. Door closed.
Work... Large companies like Volvo arrange work from home of course but quite a few smaller companies don't care. Many people must take public transportation to work, queue in the lunch restaurant to get food. Social distancing? Not really.
Sweden has relatively few multi generation homes, imagine these problems, with less restrictions, in southern Europe where it is much more common.
Another thought: Minorities are much harder hit. Is it really because they don't read Swedish and don't bother to find out from someone who does? How much of a contributing factor is it that they have many more multi generation households and live more people in each apartment?
It's difficult to protect risk groups in Sweden, the system simply doesn't support it. Its easier the stricter the rules are.
Then we have the asymptomatic transmissions that China has warned about since February and Sweden has conveniently chosen to ignore.
CDC estimates that 35% of coronavirus patients don't have symptoms
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html
The Swedish health authorities are recommending people to stay home a day extra after they recover. What are they going to recommend when they can't deny asymptomatic transmission any longer? Stay home a few days before you start to get symptoms too? ????
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On 5/16/2020 at 9:58 AM, Bob A Kneale said:
What did Sweden do?
This!
We were told not to send them in'
"They told us that we shouldn't send anyone to the hospital, even if they may be 65 and have many years to live. We were told not to send them in," says Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse who worked in several care homes around Gävle, north of Stockholm, at the beginning of the pandemic.
"Some can have a lot of years left to live with loved ones, but they don't have the chance... because they never make it to the hospital," she says. "They suffocate to death. And it's a lot of panic and it's very hard to just stand by and watch."
Image captionLatifa Löfvenberg works as a nurse in Stockholm
Ms Löfvenberg is now working on a Covid-19 ward in a major hospital in the Swedish capital, where she says the demographic of patients she's treating is further evidence that the elderly are being kept away. "We don't have many older people. It's a lot of younger people born in the 90s, 80s, 70s."
A paramedic working in Stockholm, who wanted to remain anonymous, told the BBC she had not had a single call-out to an elderly care home connected to Covid-19, despite putting in overtime during the crisis.
Source
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18 hours ago, stevenl said:
According to the chairman he hardly wore one during the visit, it was not only for the cameras. Just be honest, he thinks he doesn't have to wear one. And yes, it seems unlikely he is infected, but he really should set a proper example.
Amen, but then, he only seems cares about God when it's good for his business
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11 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:
Cyclone proof galvanised steel sheeting is the go????, attached per cyclone rated fixings ... easy peazy ????
Fast to install tough as guts! Easy to insulate under too????
Galvanised sheeting roofs are loud when it rains, tiled roofs are less sturdy but quieter. Quite a bit of difference too
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This is Thailand, Thais decide if pubs and bars should be open or not. Foreigners, being guests here, should not have anything to say in the matter.
Common sense.
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I don't have enough hair to count all those mistakes. Just feel sad. ????
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This is what I have said for quite sometime, I am glad that international media finally is reporting on it. It is a disgrace!
Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?
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On 5/16/2020 at 4:41 PM, charmonman said:
I think Russia is in the competition for first place now. Their brilliant and handsome President can’t let Mother Russia be beaten by the Western powers after all.
Actually Sweden is on the number one spot in terms of deaths per population.
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9 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:
Sorry, this is nonsense, the healthcare facilities of Germany and Sweden have never been overwhelmed. And Italy's healthcare facilities are already overwhelmed whenever there is a severe seasonal flu.That Sweden's healtcare facilities have not been overwhelmed is, to use your own words, total nonsense. Swedish health authorities are under fire right now for not moving elderly who need hospital care to hospitals, to not overwhelm them. That's why deaths go down to under half every single weekend. Those who die in care homes are only reported on weekdays.
It is just politics of the ugliest kind.
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Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?
in COVID-19 Coronavirus
Posted
He doesn't agree with everything. Being an epidemiologist, he wanted masks for all healthcare and response personnel regardless of where they work for instance. He wasn't the one saying that wasn't necessary. He didn't agree with that covid nurses could work in short sleeves if they had mask and visor either. Those were political decisions because no one would have cared for the covid sick otherwise. There's still not enough PPE for nurses.
He's a very nice guy, let's agree on that ????