MikeyIdea

15 hours ago, offset said:

I would of had to put about 130000 baht into the civil court with I would of lost if the verdict went against me so the total cost would have been more than 250000 baht so I decided against taking it any further

Losing 130,000: The "go to criminal first" path is weird but that's why they do it I suppose. Just sue for perjury or whatever simple paragraph that matches to get a conviction (without risk of losing any money) and then go to civil (no risk of losing money any longer). No way there will be a jail sentence if father ask for lenience

I like that you decided to not act against the mother

You'd start with a criminal case in Thailand, the judge will not put the mother in jail if you ask him not to, still have to go to civil court for the order to transfer done and you'd still have to pay the debt so that the land can be transferred back to the child... Too much paying out

Good decision :)

That's perjury

Section 177 Whoever, giving a false evidence to the Court in the judicial proceedings, if such false evidence is an essential matter in the case, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding five years or fined not exceeding ten thousand Baht, or both - Not compoundable

Committing perjury is one of the easiest way to go to jail in Thailand. You will not have any problems getting a criminal conviction against the mother if you have evidence and it's not going to be a ten thousand baht penalty.

I have a friend who is in criminal court right now using section 177 and the judge has been tough on the mothers lawyer, we haven't seen the end of it yet but both lawyers involved are confident that it will stay tough

Then civil court to get it transferred back again, Thailand has the concept "bad faith" so court will not have any problems ordering the land transferred back again after a criminal conviction - Problem with that it can actually not be transferred if there is a debt but that is a different matter

You can get that back into the childs name again

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 11:13 AM, offset said:

 

... they do not check it land was sold at a much higher value after buying it from the bank at the low rate

 

Don't understand that. It is impossible to give a responsibility to a child = a child can never have been the owner of anything that has loans

Why should a bank be involved if a child owns land?   

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:33 PM, Requiem said:

Would you care to share what are the other pills?

 

The aim of my topic is to try found out which ones are the best in combination of pregnancy prevention and side effect minimisation.

 

We just both don't like to use condom, that's all. I'm sure there's many couples like us.

No one in the family uses them, sorry.

I suggest to go to a drugstore and get the names and then read up on a professional international website,

On 09/02/2017 at 4:16 PM, kenk24 said:

Bangkok traffic is worse than ever. I prefer taxi but a big part of the decision might be how stressed out you personally get. If it's stressful will you become short tempered with your family?

Never saw this post. I disagree Ken. Bangkok traffic is much better today than it was 15, 20, 25 years ago. It was standard that AC bus 15 (now 514) took 35-45 minutes to get from Huaykwang to past Yaohan (Fortune Town) in the morning rush hour. There were no flyovers and no express ways and rain water took much longer to drain away back then.

The traffic is much faster nowadays, not to mention how much safer it is 

Very good comment about stress, absolutely necessary to be able to control. Understand that the family suffers otherwise 

There are some cheap good cars out there, buy second hand and depreciation is close to zero. Toyota Avanza is an example of a cheap good family/city car. Lots of room for the kids bicycle and all the rest. Car seat always available. Petrol is cheap

It's so easy to drive in Bangkok nowadays. Why not?

First of all, if I was the one wanting sex without children, then I would make it my responsibility to prevent it on my side, not make my girl friend prevent it for me

Secondly, who said Dianne? Some Thai women love Dianne because it is known to give larger breasts, some want to take it but don't dare because they have heard that maybe you won't get children when you stop if you have taken them a longer time and some swear that is true. Dianne is famous in Thailand for 2 things, larger breasts and fertility issues 

There are other brands with less of both the positive and the negative side effects to choose from

I just heard from Tony that the board has taken the decision to close St. Johns International school 30-June-2017

No,

There has been a Supreme Court decision on that any custody agreement between parents where father is not yet legitimised is invalid

You and the mother can write one after you are legitimised but it is not worth much in practice. Many officials in Thailand will simply see it as an agreement between you and the mother that means nothing for them = they will ignore it - although the law of course specify otherwise

Mikey

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 9:57 PM, krabi local said:

Sadly that is not what happens in real life.

My sister-in-law worked at at a well known coffee shop. Told the boss she was pregnant and could not carry the big coffee bags - was sacked.
My wife's friend works in a hotel. Took 2 weeks off to have her baby, was not paid for those 2 weeks.

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Labour department in Thailand is known to support workers well. If  they did not formally make a complaint with the labour department, then they should blame themselves for the lost money. There is even unemployment benefits for them to fetch if they get fired but I bet they didn't "get" that either

Everybody in the company I work for get compensation for every single leave type supported by labour law, including munk hood leave and castration leave. Everyone who leaves the company request and promptly get unemployment benefits (regardless of if they get fired, decide to quit themselves or get a severance pay package in line with Thai labour law), unless they directly move to another job of course. And to close another myth: There are cases where our HR department is forced to deduct money from salaries for child support every month

It's a question of knowledge and initiative for many lower educated Thai's and I accept that considering their background but I have more mixed feelings when it comes to westerners: It's more ignorance when someone who has the ability to find out still relies on hearsay

It happens all the time and if it doesn't happen, then it is only their own fault

11 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

The farang does the initials and introductions and then things are handed over to the Thai hacks who make ridiculous assumptions based on what the last farang client wanted, even after giving very clear and simple instructions. Then it is all your fault, you are being difficult and it becomes a big smarty pants competition.

Western lawyer first, sounds good for 60K. Bring your own Interpreter still applies, perhaps I should add unless you have a very good feeling about the Thai guy. There are lawyers who will ignore and recommend to order but they're not many. A Thai lawyer who works for a bigger firm will absolutely have good enough English to communicate well with you actually

11 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

The lawyer told me that no matter what proof I have of the mothers issues and previous neglect, it would be extremely unlikely a Thai court would award sole parental rights to me

Unless evidence of physical abuse or drug addiction yes

11 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

He said they generally favour a Thai national over a foreigner irrespective of the circumstances. He did say the best I could hope for at this stage would be to be legitimised as the father and still I would only have 50% parental rights

They do normally not favour Thai nationals = not correct. So use it to your favour :) Just shoot back: Good, then let's see the first level court only as a preliminary step and let the court order and we get the final decision from the Appels court. And add: It's normally only less than a year until that starts anyway. That is exactly what they don't want. If the court orders, then you will get legitimized and shared custody (do not worry about that) = either the mother takes care of the child until the Appeals court or you do it. Not her parents, not anyone else

True that the best you can hope for is shared custody but that is only part of it. Possession of the child is really important. Juvenile takes a decision in the best interest of the child, especially future of the child. Only 9 months old is early to go to court if it can be avoided, that could favour the mother and education may not favour you much yet. 

I have written elsewhere about education as a shared responsibility. Never give away paying for education without something good in return. You get 4-3 or 5-2 and you are the primary caregiver = you decide school (as long as it is in Thailand of course). About Kindergarten and school later. Ensure that you only sign in the child, keep papers that mothers signature is not there

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Talking a reasonable amount of money to do also (60k baht). He also did say I could appeal but could take 2 or 3 costly appeals and a considerable amount of time (years) to be successful.

60k is ok. There are only 2 appeals levels in Thailand, Appeals and Supreme Court so 3 is not an option :) To write the appeal will cost (best interest of the child only), the actual court case should be the same as the first level, well worth it for the future of our child. A considerable amount of time is not true. It will be less than one year before the Appeals court starts, max another year for it to finish (I think less in this case) and more will not be needed as the mother isn't really interested in taking care of the child. Child is a year old now, another 2 years or so to get a court order that is better for the child for the next 16-17 years? Yes, that sounds like what a responsible father should aim for - if necessary. I don't think it will be if this happens in a Bangkok court actually. Keep all hospital receipts etc as evidence by the way

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

will be getting plenty of free advice from her own "farang wife" forum. Most of it usually incorrect. I would be interested to hear your comments on that?

They are the ones who though that the father had more rights than the mother until they met westerners (many poor uneducated Thai's still think that), then they changed. Many of them wake up when they get into a real court room the first time, some Thai lawyers help them to keep their dream alive.

Legitimisation gives you rights and responsibilities but only for the child, remember that and remind the lawyer that you know it too. 5,000 baht per month is enough in this case. The mother doesn't take care of the child and money is only for that and nothing else so how can the court motivate more? I'd just let the court order if they want more. The judges want to hear: You want the child to have a mother and you are of course happy to help her with some extra money when she actually takes care of the child

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

So at the end of the day, I don't know what extra rights I will have by going to the expense and effort of making my self the legitimate father? It could be a step towards claiming full custody but that doesn't sound likely either. Only benefit I can see is that I would have full custody and some control should something happen to her....god willing. Am I reading that right?

You must get shared custody, only question is when a good time is. Shared custody will be enough. I don't think you should see it as s step toward full/sole custody. Why do you need that? That would enable you to take the child out of Thailand without the mothers consent but that is also one reason why the judges don't want to order it. It would also take away all discussion if there are incidents with the mother / police / school etc in the future but that should be manageable anyway => You should have enough control. Don't mix up shared custody and full/sole custody, sole/full custody takes away the parental power of the mother.

100% shared custody means that you and the mother share all rights and obligations 100% equally, except what you accept to sign away in a court order so again: Ensure that you get something good in return for giving education away. It is very unlikely that the court would order one parent to pay education costs.

13 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Her biggest fear is that I will meet a new lady and my son will accept her as his mum and forget her

That would be wrong. The child has the right to her mother and the mother has the right to her child, encourage it and the child will need her mother less, encourage the mother and be happy to carry the child to her when she comes to visit and she'll worry less. She'll hardly keep up the interest anyway

Be patient Kenny. I don't know if you pay the mother anything now but how about formally paying her 5,000 baht per month? Transfer to her bank account or nothing, not cash. Take the first outburst about more calmly :) 

Good Luck

Michael

The child is only 9 months old so this must be done in Juvenile court. The mother doesn't have to give her consent in Juvenile, the judges can just order if they want but don't expect that to happen. Judges want "mutual agreement" and will go to length negotiating one

The good thing with Juvenile courts in Thailand is that they are really fair, there is normally no bias against fathers or westerners. The bad thing with Thailand is that it is your own lawyer you must watch out for, he is quite likely not going to fight very well for you actually

"Best plan of attack": I don't like that phrase really but if you really do this for the best of the child, then OK

- Whatever happened in the past about the mother being unsuitable:  If you have no evidence, then it only happened if you are the favoured one in court, otherwise not.

Point: Stay cool, accept the problems for as long as you need to collect good evidence to support your case

- Your lawyer is probably going to be your weakest link:

Point: Get an interpretor that is NOT coming from the lawyers side and make sure he is on your side. How is your Thai? If it is pretty OK, then another 100 legal words will do miracle.

- The judges don't want to order and your lawyer is probably going to be your weakest link 
- Your lawyer ends up in a difficult situation and will normally want you to accept a mutual agreement if the judges want one.

Point: You need to make the judges unwillingness to order and your lawyers wish for you to accept one your strength.

Make very clear to your lawyer from the beginning what your goals are and why (needs to be the best for the child, not you). Make very clear that you prefer to just let the judges order and take it to the Appeals court. Only a year or less waiting time. 

Some links to read, it will give you an idea about what to expect

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/949770-does-the-court-listen-to-12-year-old-childrens-wishes-in-case-of-divorce/#comment-11258492 - good info

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/944516-child-maintenance/#comment-11182589

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/944516-child-maintenance/#comment-11190079

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/949807-contested-divorce-2-houses-at-stake/?page=2#comment-11324758

This is a bit of a special case as the child is so young, only 9 months but that shouldn't affect much as the mother doesn't take care of the child even now. It should be quite possible for you to get 4-3 or more. Make sure you have clear evidence that you have taken care of the child since X months old alone  - very important.

Set expectations right already from the beginning: If Juvenile pushes for something not acceptable, then just let them order and go on to the Appeals court

From what you write: The mother is not that interested in taking care of the child anyway -> she'll lose interest over time 

Mikey

May I ask why you want your daughter to start earky? 

It's generally a bad idea to be the youngest one in the class, children develop fast and being a year younger than everybody else makes a big difference the early years. OK, it makes little difference later in school but some habits have already formed and they are more difficult to change once there

The older ones naturally become a bit more of the leader type in the class, they're bigger, stronger and more mature and that builds habits and inner self confidence. You don't often see the youngest one in the class being the leader. When school should start has very little to do with knowledge

School is mandatory from the age of 6 in Thailand. The school age is counted from 1-April so a child should technically start grade 6 in the middle-end of May if they turned 6 before 1-April and wait a year if it was after that. This is not a strict rule though and there are exceptions both ways

You can skip K3 if you want, some/most? schools may have an entrance exam if you do but that should be it. Go and talk to the school if you really want that, they will assess the child and tell you

I don't see the value in finishing high school / university a year earlier, work 45 instead of 46 years before retirement? I don't think it matters much in the long run, it's more important to have the best possible EQ when starting to work IMO

Good Luck

Michael

Yes but it will have to be in a Family court. It's easy and shouldn't cost more than 50,000 baht. It doesn't matter if the wife comes or not. Splitting assets bought while married and/or custody of children will complicate things a bit but won't affect your right to divorce because of abandonment 

Yes but it will have to be in a Family court. It's easy and shouldn't cost more than 50,000 baht. It doesn't matter if the wife comes or not. Splitting assets bought while married and/or custody of children will complicate things but won't affect your right to divorce because of abandonment 

Sure, St. John's International School. One of the oldest schools in Thailand, the international school has been open for 25 years now and it used to be one of the most expensive international schools in Thailand up there with Bangkok Patana and UN school (now New International School) in the old days. Long tradition but not fancy any longer. The campus used to be great with 25 metre swimming pool, running track and all but it is old(er) nowadays of course. It's located close to Central Latprao  

The best of it all is that there are only around 10 - 12 students in each class nowadays

Prices have dropped a lot the last 6-7 years and are now less than THB 300,000 per year if you take the 10% discount by paying for the whole year upfront.

I checked up all international schools decently close to where I live last year and decided for St. John's and I'll move my daughter there for grade 7. It should be noted that you also get Filipino teachers for that price of course (50 - 50) but I don't mind that. They all have ED degrees and my experience with professional Filipino teachers in Bangkok is that they are good, very big difference from non-professional teachers

You can find their prices and contact info at http://www.international.stjohn.ac.th/sjis_school_fees.asp

The principle Tony seems nice and good

Michael 

6 minutes ago, asianscouser said:

I take it you've never been to Liverpool ?

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I have, and Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle and Leicester to name a few other UK "hot spots". Nowhere near American levels

53 minutes ago, asianscouser said:

I see, so let me get this right, you call Pattaya the Bronx?

You must be a Yankee, Pattaya is more like Blackpool on steroids. Besides, l lived at the Time in Leamchabang. (10- 20 minutes drive to Pattaya )

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I am not American, it's just that the UK has no area that comes even near Chonburi when it comes to criminality but the US has plenty

The Chonburi / Pattaya area is statistically the most criminal area of Thailand

Just now, SaintLouisBlues said:

I think this falls under the WFK bucket

If you don't know, why do you post in a thread where we discuss the Thai view of parenting? It's somewhat irritating when the OP and others discuss the Thai view of parenting and people like you who openly admit that you don't know post the opposite view of what is discussed

So, what's the Thai view of why decrepit grandparents are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand?

Thai's are obviously smarter than SaintLouisBlues    If a grandparent needs to sit then she of course continues to do that and someone else that is better suitable to support this Thai tradition smilingly stands up to give up her seat

It is total nonsense that decrepit grand mothers are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand

49 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

What practical difference will it make whatever my perspective?

A hint: This thread is not about your perspective at all  It's about the opposite

I'm sure you remember your own post: You brought to the discussion that Thai's encourage children sit down on public transport while decrepit grandparents are forced to stand

Now, what's the Thai view of why decrepit grandparents are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand?

Or have you perhaps mis-understood? Are decrepit grandparents who actually need to sit forced to stand up to allow a child to sit in Thailand? 

4 hours ago, asianscouser said:

I almost got my head ripped off by three big angry Thai men when my truck skidded on Sukhumvit Pattaya.
A Thai driver claimed I hit his car, I didn't feel anything.
When I said the small bump was an old wound, they almost jumped on me. I ended up paying 10,000 for it as my insurance would of leaped up by a further 5000

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And why do you choose to live in Bronx?

5 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Was an ambulance really necessary? Sounds like she tried to make a meal of it. 

Eh, wake up. Thailand is not a banana republic except in the mind of surprisingly many ignorant ThaiVisa members

The police of course supported the OP and confirmed that it was her fault

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Whose understanding? We're discussing Thai understanding of Thai parenting standards or Western understanding of Thai parenting standards or Western perceptions of Thai parenting standards or Western perceptions of Thai understanding of That parenting standards?

The OP outlines clearly what he wants to discuss in the opening post

On 28/09/2016 at 6:28 PM, impartialobserver said:

This has got me thinking--what exactly are the Thai standards of parenting? What makes a "good" parent in the eyes of the Thai people? What is good and bad parenting here? Is all of this lack of protectiveness seen as a good thing by the Thai people? If so, what's their rationale behind that train of thought?

 

Can someone explain to me how the Thai people see their responsibilities as parents?

You brought to the discussion your view that Thai's encourage children sit down on public transport while decrepit grandparents are forced to stand

Now, what's the underlying reason why decrepit grandparents are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand?

Or have you perhaps mis-understood? Are decrepit grandparents who actually need to sit forced to stand up to allow a child to sit in Thailand? 

Mikey

On 31/12/2016 at 11:06 AM, zxc said:

It's traditional for grandparents to do the bulk of child rearing - that cannot help with discipline as grandparents are generally petty soft or probably too tired to keep on top of the youngsters.

An important part of Thai culture is that elders should be respected. Also younger generation more modern and well educated parents will respectfully keep quiet and allow the grandparent to teach their child the way the grandparents parent taught her, even if they know it's old fashioned and not good

That part of Thai culture contribute to slower change and the leaders of this country (the Ministry of Education and the likes) are very well aware of it. There is no easy solution

On 02/01/2017 at 11:05 AM, SaintLouisBlues said:

Not to mention encouraging children sit down on public transport while decrepit grandparents are forced to stand

SaintLouisBlues: Good sample

We discuss the understanding  of Thai parenting standards. You have given your western view, now also please contribute your understanding of the point you bring up, what's the underlying reason why decrepit grandparents are forced to stand to let children sit in Thailand

Or have you perhaps mis-understood? Are decrepit grandparents who actually need to sit forced to stand up to allow a child to sit in Thailand?