gemguy

6 hours ago, anotheruser said:

Makes sense to me. Of all the drugs one could possibly legalize yaba is the ideal candidate. If they really want this to work they should raise the penalties for users of Marijuana as we all know this is the gateway drug.

That is what they say about Marijuana while many adamantly argue that is not the case.

OK......then change the delivery method  of what is meant to be understood by saying this:

If you are involved in the drug consumption culture and marijuana is the drug that you use to get on high then you are commonly exposing yourself to many of the other recreational drugs that are readily available to a person while involved in the drug consumption social circles.

So...commonly:  "One thing leads to another" ( The Gateway Theory )  as often does occur where drug users  will try another drug and often enough it is a drug that is an addictive drug while the users become addicted faster than they imagined.

All in good fun of course and looking for excitement and thrills to be found during ones drug consumption career while many of them will tell you that being involved in marijuana consumption and associating themselves with other users who are also using other recreational drugs in effect was the basis of how they became addicted to Speed or Crack or Heroin.

Had they just stayed with Alcohol and associated with people that do not consume recreational drugs then there is a much higher probability that they never would have experimented with other recreational drugs...but marijuana was the first recreational drug they were involved with which lead hem to associating with other people that consume a variety of other drugs.

So..."One thing leads to another" is a better way of explaining the meaning of the gateway theory ....but both ways of explaining it are very similar while the Gateway statement is just a generalization that does have a degree of validity when people use that expression.

Cheers

Well now...you are learning that nothing motivates a Thai person to move quickly more so than food.

That is why I tell my friends the Thais have Som Tum on their brains all the time because they are preoccupied with the thought of eating.

Cheers

For many ...multiple relationships make for "happier"....with multiple happy endings....so the arithmetic involved makes for more pluses than negatives...lol

Cheers 

9 hours ago, digibum said:

 

I already have a very balanced view.  I was responding to points that you made not writing a dissertation on the pros and cons of marijuana legalization.

 

You claim to be pro legalization

 

 

but then conclude your original post with

 

 

This is what really is wrong with much of what you have written.  You say that you're pro legalization but that it's better to not get involved in recreational drug consumption.

 

You make claims that don't even make sense logically and cite no evidence or proof and then when I point out how what you're saying flies in the face of common sense, you call me a spokesman for the pro-pot lobby.

 

Bottom line is that legalization does not solve all problems.  Nobody has every claimed that it would.  Yes, people are going to drive high.  Yes, compliance with state laws and paying taxes on income puts pricing pressures on legal weed.  Yes, yes, yes.

 

But are the problems as severe as you make them out to be?  In most cases not even close.  People drive high.  Even the Colorado department of transportation, while citing that 10% - 12% of all DUIs involve marijuana, have said that it's unclear whether marijuana has increased the total number of DUIs or simply replaced marijuana for alcohol.  Since they didn't keep stats pre-legalization they don't know and they themselves say it's too early to draw any conclusions . . . though you felt more than ready to jump.

 

Does legal weed *sometimes* cost more than illegal weed?  Yes.  But only by 10% or so in those instances where it is more expensive.  And even then, you've got a lot of issues related to startup costs and immature production and distribution channels that nearly everyone agrees will put downward pressure on pricing.  And if large, experienced growers like the tobacco companies got involved, costs drop dramatically.

 

But that's not opinion or spin.  That's just fact.  Anybody who knows anything about business or has taken an economics class can tell you that.

 

However, this thread is about Thailand's efforts to legalize yaba.  While it would be better if Thais didn't have a problem with the drug, surely turning manufacturing over to a professional lab would improve quality and lower costs.  Additionally, not incarcerating large segments of the population for non-violent offenses like drug possession doesn't just make sense economically but it's the most humane option.

 

Again, I'm not pro-yaba or anything.  I've never touched it.  Never had a desire to touch it.  And I won't be touching it when I'm in Thailand.

 

To me it just seems insane to say that alcohol, a drug that causes all sorts of societal ills can be purchased freely at 7-11 but someone who may be a recreational yaba user, having broken no other laws or caused any ill effect on society, gets a 5 year jail sentence.

 

If history has demonstrated anything, it's that increasing the penalties for using drugs (whether it be weed, yaba, or alcohol) does not impact demand enough to see that as a viable option.  So, instead of fighting a war you cannot win, put the resources to use in ways that actually benefit society.

 

If anything, that's what i'm an advocate for.  I'm pro-not-fighting-wars-you-can't-win.

 

BTW, I live somewhere where medical marijuana is legal and I haven't smoked weed in over 3 years.  I've had a medical marijuana card and used it before but not in the last 3 years.  So, my position isn't influenced by my desire to smoke weed.  I just know what weed was like when it was strictly illegal and what it's like since legalization and there's no doubt the current situation is much better.

 

 

Yes I am pro legalization...but I do not consume any recreational drugs or alcohol or cigarettes.

It should not be confusing or even thought to be contradictory to be pro legalization concerning marijuana but at the same time advocate to everyone that they should not partake in the consumption of said  intoxicants.

Let them be legal the same way that alcohol is legal while the majority of people do not consume alcohol while cigarettes are legal but most people do not smoke cigarettes.

Prohibiting them is now well proven to create all the more problems that can be eliminated by way of legalizing them and regulating them as that is the logical and sensible way to go about it.

But......there is so much more to it than just the legal aspects of recreational drug  supply and the consumption of the recreational drugs for the sole purpose of getting high on.

I have been following the drug related events and the evolution of the drug consumption scene and drug consumption culture for 40 plus years now while I did participate in the drug consumption culture for around 10 years ( back when I was Young, Dumb and full of Cum ) ...so.......like many before me I can say: Been there ..done that ...but I moved on and I know I am way better off for abstaining.

I say:  Let the others test the waters and we will see the results from a safe vantage point as there are plenty of fools out there that will dive right in without hesitation.

I did not post what I did post by way of "My Opinion" rather the internet and the same sources of information easily found on the internet also include a lot info about the negative ramifications and social contention and social problems presently existing  concerning the widespread use of recreational drugs...including marijuana and the associated problems and ramifications.

I have already read about the positive aspects and the numerous benefits of marijuana and its legalization to the point of ad nuasuem...so now.....I like to also read about the relevant data that talks about and or focuses on the many problems and social ramifications associated with wide spread recreational use drug consumption and the ever growing drug consumption culture.

I predict in 10 years from now.....certainly 20 years from now a lot of people will be wishing it was the way it was before while there will be plenty of new rules and regulations and laws attached to the legal supply chain and consumer consumption of marijuana while plenty of people will still be arrested for violations of the laws....but not near as many incarcerated in Jail.

Meantime there will be new and unforeseen ramifications caused by all the drug consumption going on ..so Yah...I do not advocate you get involved with recreational use drugs ..at all...just stay away from them.

I do not participate any longer and not because I think the drugs are that bad ( many being worse than others of course ) rather I witnessed too many people turning weird and going wild and crazy like and addicted on any number of drugs that were easily available including marijuana while commonly combined with Alcohol and Cocaine and MDA and Barbiturates and Speed and Mescaline and LSD and Magic Mushrooms and then the King of all recreation drugs....Heroin.

Although marijuana is the least problematic of all the recreational drugs I clearly remember meeting too many weirdo Pot Heads that were involved in too many shady activities and nefarious dealings and criminal activities and they came with an attitude that was clearly going to bring them trouble and I did not want to be around them when trouble came.

It was not the drugs rather the people I was involved with and or continually meeting and in effect subjecting myself to while participating in the whole party hardy, recreational drug consumption culture while marijuana is a big part of that drug consumption culture as you can not simply separate the Marijuana from the other drugs...as marijuana is all part of the drug consumption culture and comes with plenty of problems and ramifications that do not fade away because the drug is now legalized.

Just too many other factors involved and needing to be addressed while the wide spread use of the drug will always remain a contentious social issue amongst the majority of people who do not take drugs...none at all....and they have the right to be concerned and oppose the use of the drugs if they see any problems at all being created  that effect them negatively that otherwise would not exist if the drugs were not being consumed by that percentage of people that insist on taking the drugs...no matter what the implications and ramifications.

Meantime Thailand does not have a drug problem near as bad as North America has so Thailand may have a chance at addressing the problems associated with recreational drug consumption before it really gets out of hand while legalizing the drugs is one way to find out if it is better than keeping them illegal and having to enforce the laws in that manner and in effect criminalizing the users.

But there will still be plenty of problems to deal with and needing to be addressed no matter which approach is taken as the recreational drugs are problematic by nature ...but easily masked by all the fun and thrills to be had while consuming them.

Cheers

6 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Perhaps we have two different definitions of a black market.  I perceive it to be a much bigger enterprise.  For instance, the legal drinking age in those states is 21 as well.  Do we talk about a beer black market?  No, since beer is legal for those over 21 and there are no Mexican cartels importing beers to sell to kids on prom night, we generally don't call it a black market.

 

Could it be considered a black market?  Sure, I guess.  But, personally, I don't lump it into that category.

 

 

Obviously people had no choice during the period where marijuana was illegal so the only comparison to be made is what happened when it became legal in Colorado and Washington State in the US.

 

And like I said, unless you've had the pleasure of buying completely legal marijuana I don't think you can make a comparison.  I would 100% buy legal weed over illegal weed.  Not even a close call.  

 

That's why I think a lot of your argument here is a false argument.  People didn't care about quality because you had no other options.  People dealt with Johnny Dealer because they had no other option.

 

Once you give people that option, the choice is clear.  Marijuana dealers have all but gone out of business.  They can't match the quality or convenience.

 

In terms of price, I guess technically it's possible, but I highly doubt illegal marijuana imported into the US could ever match the price of marijuana grown in the US.  Even given the differences in labor costs, once you tack on transportation and inevitable losses at the border, legally grown weed has a clear price advantage.

 

Also, you have to factor in all of the middlemen between importer, to wholesaler, to street dealer.  Legal weed also has a supply chain but it tends to be more direct from grower to retailer.

 

But even if it didn't, what could the price differential even be?  Weed is pretty cheap.  Regardless of your source, the price per gram would be so negligible that most people would still prefer to purchase from a state licensed supplier than deal with Johnny Drug Dealer to save $2.

 

And to even further invalidate your point, nearly every state that allows medical marijuana allows people with a medical condition to grow their own.  You can buy seeds in any medical marijuana dispensary and simply grow your own weed if you so wish.

 

 

 

I really, really disagree where.  Under almost no circumstances could imported, illegal weed be sold for half the cost.  You're making up your numbers so as to be able to make your point.  Now if you said, 10% or 20% cheaper, then we could have a discussion but if your claim is that someone can grow weed in Central or South America, transport it all the way to the US, paying bribes, inflated transport costs (because it's an illegal product), get it across the border and eat the cost of X% of their shipments being seized, distributing it to a wholesaler, and into the hands of street level dealer for the same price as someone who grows it locally and sells directly to the dispensary, then there's no point in discussing this any further since you're not basing your argument in reality.

 

 

 

Why is that a problem?  I mean, yes, I understand the concern of the surrounding states but this problem is no different from places where fireworks are available in State A but banned in State B so kids in State B go across state lines and purchase fireworks in State A.  It's not like it's a new problem for states.  And suing those states has seldom, if ever, resulted in State A being forced to solve State B's problem.  It's been that way with alcohol as well.  Before states standardized drinking ages, kids used to cross the border to a 18+ state if they lived in a 21+ state.

 

 

 

I'm not in the mood to research a point you brought up and failed to provide any statistics for but while driving while under the influence of marijuana arrests have increased, if memory serves me, only around 10% of all DUI cases involve only marijuana.  Even police say that this can be reduced significantly with better education since marijuana has only been legal for about 2 years now and many drivers are unaware that they can be arrested for driving high.

 

 

 

Uh, duh?  I think this has been the argument of pro-legalization folks for 50 years or so.

 

 

You sort of invalidate your point, don't you?  Cigarette and alcohol prices have been increasing, mostly due to sin taxes as lawmakers see this as an easy source of revenue while they can also claim that they are doing good for society.

 

But where is the black market for booze and cigarettes that you say is assured, as in assured will happen if the price of weed stays high (no pun intended)?

 

The reason you are wrong is because you assume everyone is as price driven as you are.  Me, I just want to smoke some dope.  I don't care if Johnny Drug Dealer can get me some questionable quality dope for $5 a half-ounce cheaper.

 

If, and this is a big if, a black market did develop it would most likely be the result of legal US based marijuana growers selling out the back door or illegal US based marijuana growers selling directly to the public without obtaining proper licenses or paying taxes.

 

And ultimately, I'm not that convinced that given a choice that enough people would opt to save a few bucks by dealing with sketchy drug dealers when they can buy totally legit weed at 10 different locations just on their route to and from work.

 

 

That's not entirely true and it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

For instance, in parts of Colorado, black market weed is more expensive than legal weed.  Even in parts of Colorado where the prices are higher, it ranges from 2% - 10% higher.

 

In other states, the price differentials are higher but that is usually a case of:

 

1)  Marijuana is only legal for medicinal purposes and not for recreational use - meaning some people are forced to buy from the black market

 

2)  Due to #1 above, there doesn't exist a robust competitive market in smaller rural areas

 

3)  There is an abundant source of illegal weed (think northern California) close by.

 

4)  Continued legal concerns that have kept many bigger investors out of the market which slows down progress in growing techniques, supply chain improvements, and efficiencies in retail sales channels.  Also lumped into this group is the fact that growers and retailers have to do all-cash business because they cannot open bank accounts which adds to their overhead as they have to create their own "banks" (i.e. warehouses to hold cash with armed guards).

 

5)  And this is the most important part because it deals with almost all of the points above, the market is still in its infancy.  Legal weed for recreational use has only been around 2 years.  It's still fragmented and inefficient.  If Walmart could sell weed in their pharmacy, prices would drop like a rock because then you would have major agricultural interests improving the farming techniques, you would have Walmart expertise addressing supply chain and distribution issues, etc.

 

 

 

This pretty much sums up why your entire post is BS.

 

 

 

Well ...you are wrong in many of your points while the points that you are correct about is common knowledge anyhow while I already know all about those points long ago.

I am talking about the other half of the story...the one that the pro pot advocates always refute and never acknowledge and always belligerently argue do not exist while only talking about the good points of marijuana.....same as your post proves.

Meantime  you can look up the information that I posted on the internet any time and there are a good number of websites that point out the ramifications that have actually developed rather than your opinions and beliefs about what is happening concerning legal marijuana and ALL that is entailed...not just the good points that you and others always go on about while never including any of the negative aspects.

You would make a good pro pot representative because your argument is one sided as is every hard core pro pot advocate while ignoring any of the ramifications or negative aspects that do actually exist and have to be addressed by someone...but not you...rather other people. 

You naturally assume that I just dreamed up what I posted as the basis of your counter argument.

Meantime, like I said in my previous retort, the pro pot advocates ( you would be one of them obviously ) always refuse, as in always refuse, to acknowledge and or accept any of the negative aspects and or negative ramifications of wide spread pot use.

Rather than include them as part of the facts and everything entailed concerning marijuana you point out and argue "only" the positive aspects, as if by doing so the existing negative aspects and ramifications will just magically disappear all because you argued them into oblivion and  religiously argue the pro pot advocates mantra.

Like I said before, I am pro legalization for a number of logical reasons but I do not live in a dream world believing that the drug is problem free and do not argue that the problems that do already exist and or the ones evolving are just other peoples beliefs or opinions...as seen by you and the basis of your counter arguments.

I know all about the good points and all about what is developing ...but unlike most others I include all the relevant and important data and that includes the negative aspects and social ramifications of the drugs wide spread use and availability.

You on the on the other hand just blindly defend the drug and every aspect about the drug citing only the positive aspects of the drug and its use...... as seen in your posts.

Your reaction to anything negative said about pot and its use as a recreational drug is as predictable as the sun rising every morning proving you do not digest ALL the relevant information rather you just hand pick the positive information and adamantly defend the drug and its use.

I suggest you gain a far more balanced view on the subject of marijuana and ( ALL that is entailed )...rather than a pro pot sales pitch that follows the pro pot advocates mantra as seen in your retorts on the subject of marijuana as a recreational use drug for the sole purpose of intoxication..... and separate from marijuana as a medical use product.

Good luck in your search for information to obtain a more balanced understanding and view point about Marijuana and all that is entailed .

Cheers

13 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Not sure I agree.  You go to some great lengths to make some pretty simple points but I think you're operating under some false assumptions.

 

There is a black market for prescription drugs because it's illegal to buy them without a prescription.  For instance, there's really no black market for weed in Colorado or Washington State in the US because weed is legal for recreational use.  Why would anybody go and buy weed from some sketchy dude when they can walk into a shop that sells weed and have some assurance that the weed they're buying is of an agreed upon quality?

 

Similarly, in states in the US that have made it legal strictly for medicinal purposes (not for recreational purposes) the amount of drug dealers for marijuana has dropped considerably.   Many have applied for licenses to become legitimate marijuana merchants.  Others got out of the business or switched to other drugs because the additional competition drove prices to the point where the profit margins did not warrant the legal risks being taken.

 

And both recreational and medical marijuana states have put a huge hit on Mexican cartels as demand has dropped dramatically as legal sources of weed became available in those states that legalized it.  Again, the Mexican cartels have no quality assurance, involve risk of arrest, etc.  Legit suppliers of marijuana to the legal shops have to be state licensed and meet all sorts of health and safety criteria.   Why wouldn't you buy from a shop where you have some assurance that what you're buying is legit?

 

I've lived in states where weed is legal for medicinal purposes and I've had a medical marijuana license.  It's almost freaky to walk into a shop and see rows and rows of weed.  You pick strains, THC content, type of high you're looking for, etc, etc.  And they have "bud masters" (sort of like a brew master) who can advise you on selection.

 

Oh, and many of the places deliver once you've visited their dispensary and they've seen your prescription.

 

Why in the world would I buy weed from Johnny the Weed Dealer?

 

Right now the big dilemma in the US is that weed possession is still a federal crime.  The big tobacco and drug companies would love to get into the weed business but since they already walk on thin ice at the federal level they don't want to take the risks involved in getting into the weed business.

 

Another fallout of this gap between state and federal laws is that legitimate marijuana companies, completely legal in the state in which they operate, cannot open a bank account because the banks have to follow federal laws which prevent them from doing business with people who are involved in the drug trade.

 

If they legalized yaba usage in Thailand, at least a few of the drug companies making knockoff pharmaceuticals like fake viagra would be all of it.  They would be pumping the stuff out and you would be able to buy it in the local pharmacy which completely eliminates the need for shady suppliers who manufacture yaba of unknown quality.  They can manufacture on a scale that would drive down prices such that existing drug dealers would not be able to compete.

 

 

13 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Not sure I agree.  You go to some great lengths to make some pretty simple points but I think you're operating under some false assumptions.

 

There is a black market for prescription drugs because it's illegal to buy them without a prescription.  For instance, there's really no black market for weed in Colorado or Washington State in the US because weed is legal for recreational use.  Why would anybody go and buy weed from some sketchy dude when they can walk into a shop that sells weed and have some assurance that the weed they're buying is of an agreed upon quality?

 

Similarly, in states in the US that have made it legal strictly for medicinal purposes (not for recreational purposes) the amount of drug dealers for marijuana has dropped considerably.   Many have applied for licenses to become legitimate marijuana merchants.  Others got out of the business or switched to other drugs because the additional competition drove prices to the point where the profit margins did not warrant the legal risks being taken.

 

And both recreational and medical marijuana states have put a huge hit on Mexican cartels as demand has dropped dramatically as legal sources of weed became available in those states that legalized it.  Again, the Mexican cartels have no quality assurance, involve risk of arrest, etc.  Legit suppliers of marijuana to the legal shops have to be state licensed and meet all sorts of health and safety criteria.   Why wouldn't you buy from a shop where you have some assurance that what you're buying is legit?

 

I've lived in states where weed is legal for medicinal purposes and I've had a medical marijuana license.  It's almost freaky to walk into a shop and see rows and rows of weed.  You pick strains, THC content, type of high you're looking for, etc, etc.  And they have "bud masters" (sort of like a brew master) who can advise you on selection.

 

Oh, and many of the places deliver once you've visited their dispensary and they've seen your prescription.

 

Why in the world would I buy weed from Johnny the Weed Dealer?

 

Right now the big dilemma in the US is that weed possession is still a federal crime.  The big tobacco and drug companies would love to get into the weed business but since they already walk on thin ice at the federal level they don't want to take the risks involved in getting into the weed business.

 

Another fallout of this gap between state and federal laws is that legitimate marijuana companies, completely legal in the state in which they operate, cannot open a bank account because the banks have to follow federal laws which prevent them from doing business with people who are involved in the drug trade.

 

If they legalized yaba usage in Thailand, at least a few of the drug companies making knockoff pharmaceuticals like fake viagra would be all of it.  They would be pumping the stuff out and you would be able to buy it in the local pharmacy which completely eliminates the need for shady suppliers who manufacture yaba of unknown quality.  They can manufacture on a scale that would drive down prices such that existing drug dealers would not be able to compete.

 

 

Not sure I agree with you also.

Fisrt of all I am not against legalization...rather I am all for it ...but there is far more to it than most people comprehend...but.... the drugs should be made legal.

The arguments for legalization of drugs and in particular marijuana always and I mean always, only, as in only, defend the good points and good aspects of legalized drug supply and use and or the drug itself.

Naturally that is what pro drug consumption advocates would always say or argue anyhow while they will never say anything negative at all, nothing at all, about any of the negative ramifications of widespread drug use while they always, as in always, ignore and or omit any of the many and varied social problems associated with widespread recreational drug use...even if totally legal.

You said:

There is a black market for prescription drugs because it's illegal to buy them without a prescription.  For instance, there's really no black market for weed in Colorado or Washington State in the US because weed is legal for recreational use.  Why would anybody go and buy weed from some sketchy dude when they can walk into a shop that sells weed and have some assurance that the weed they're buying is of an agreed upon quality?

There is a growing black market and their will continue to be and here are some of the reasons.....while some being obvious while some they are beginning to learn about.

1: All the users of marijuana under the legal age of consumption are still criminalized for their illegal consumption of marijuana because they are under the legal age limit.

Colorado State is 21

Washington state is 21

And the rest of the legal states are 21 also ( correct me if I am wrong )

When those laws were passed those laws did not stop all the many users under 21 from continuing to consume ..so in effect still illegal and still regular customers of the illegal suppliers while remaining a lucrative and profitable percent of the marijuana consumers to be capitalized on by the Sketchy Dude types of drug dealers who still remain while none of them have closed up shop.

The underage percent of users in the now legal states represents at least 10 to 15 % of the marijuana consumers.

Where do you think they obtain their marijuana from??...while any source of supply is deemed illegal including if their parents give it to them or indirectly provide it to them or the legal outlets knowingly allow the underage users to obtain their marijuana indirectly from their legal shops...the black market remains and will be sustained.

2: The users of marijuana never have ( as in Never) worried at all about their sources of marijuana and any "sketchy dude"  or "Jonny the weed dealer aspects"  of where it came from and or who supplies it while illegal sources and sketchy characters have always been a significant aspect and one of the hall mark features of drug suppliers and drug users who sustain the drug consumption.

That being the case, then what makes you believe the users of marijuana would actually care??... at all ...where their marijuana comes from because the whole drug consumption affair on their part for the last 70 years has always been nefarious in many aspects while the users never questioned or recognized any complicity on their part in all that is entailed in obtaining and or consuming their illegally obtained marijuana...from said to be "Sketchy Dude" type sources.

Also the quality of the marijuana purchased for the last 70 years from Sketchy sources was just fine long before the now legal suppliers simply continue to supply what they supplied before...but legally  which is good and the way it should be anyhow.

No one ever died from "bad" marijuana and one of the strongest pro Pot arguments about why it is safe to use and should be legalized, etc etc....so, in effect, no one really cared or cares where they get their supply of marijuana from and never worried about the quality of their marijuana and or from who and how it was supplied.

There is very little change in those aspects while all the states where it still remains illegal to supply or consume, the consumers do not care at all where it comes from as long as their marijuana is readily available while they obviously continue to feign innocence concerning any complicity at all on their part relevant to any serious or heinous crimes perpetrated and committed by their source suppliers.

That being the case, the consumer will continue to buy the drug from whoever they want and or who ever is more convenient and who ever suppliers it cheaper.....and  regardless of the laws as Marijuana users have a  70 year history of defying the laws and or refusing to comply with the laws

3: The "cheaper supplier" aspects is the main reason the why the Black Market will flourish as the retail prices of legal marijuana are ( not ) crashing down overall and not reflecting the real costs and marginal profits obtained, the same or similar to many other consumer items, while you can reasonably expect the prices to rise in the future with increased state taxes and increased legal operating costs and necessary profits to sustain their legal enterprises...or possibly future intervention where the suppliers and the government entities collude to maintain higher prices...supposedly for the benefit of all...including the supposed safety of the consumers...lol

The illegal suppliers ( as in Sketchy drug dealing Dudes ) will always be there trafficking their various types of illegal recreational drugs and they will gladly supply the public with the same quality of marijuana ( same as before ) for half the price to get the business.

They can easily do that  by way of dealing in illegally grown or illegally smuggled marijuana while a notable percent of the marijuana consumers,  growing tired of the high and ever increasing prices will turn to their illegal sources for their full time supply or occasional supply while the drug related laws will not stop them from buying illegal source marijuana....as the laws never stopped them before.

4: There is now a problem with interstate drug trafficking where several states that are legalized are being sued by the surrounding states that see a marked increase in marijuana trafficking activities and illegal black market activities related to Marijuana....coming from the legal states.

5: There is a marked increase in the amount of users being arrested and prosecuted for operating their motor vehicles while stoned while the users still defiantly ignore those laws....so expect all the more harsher penalties to be enforced concerning the consumption of marijuana and the illegal operation of motor vehicles while stone, or lets say intoxicated on marijuana while driving...as in Drugging and driving...and the new lucrative money making source of police revenues.

There is more but I will digress for now, but meantime a person has to read the relevant information on both sides of the argument while accepting the good the bad and the ugly aspects of legal drug supply and consumption

Concerning Yaa Baa, You said at the end of your post:  They can manufacture on a scale that would drive down prices such that existing drug dealers would not be able to compete.

This is the only realistic way to drive the drug cartels and illegal traffickers and small time drug dealers out of business and keep them out of business.

You can be assured, as in assured, there will be a growing black market supply of illegal marijuana as long as the prices of legal retail priced marijuana is sustained or seen to be increasing for what ever reasons in the future...and there could be any number of reasons as we do not see alcohol and cigarette prices decreasing  rather they are always increasing....and for the record

If you look at the data for the prices of marijuana sold in Colorado, for example, in legal marijuana outlets you will see the prices have more or less stabilized and have actually come down from several years ago...but, the point is: The cost of illegally cultivated marijuana, inside or outside the USA, is still a fraction of the prices that the same goods are sold for at legal retail prices.

That being the case, the illegal drug cultivators can still supply for much cheaper and still have a great profit margin and still supply to where ever the drug remains illegal while the supply to legal states, by way of black markets, will be less profitable but considered subsidized, so to speak, and still very lucrative...but not as much profit margin

If the legal retail consumer prices remain where they are then there will remain the illegal suppliers by way of a black market.

It gets complicated...but decriminalization first and then legal to consume later and then finally legal suppliers to be regulated and policed is the way it seems to be developing...but not without many remaining social contentions and problems needing to be addressed.

Better not to get involved and do not participate in recreational drug consumption is the best argument..lol

Cheers

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:03 AM, digibum said:

 

The entire idea that someone can tell you what you can and can't willingly put in your body seems completely at odds with freedom.  Especially when you're more than welcome to get a doctor to prescribe you drugs that are far more harmful and addictive.  Who is to say yaba is bad but oxycontin is good?

 

The war on drugs has failed because it never had a chance of winning.

 

I will caveat what I'm saying by making it clear that I don't think anyone should do yaba.  But if they do, why should the government care?  Going all the way back to the prohibition of alcohol in the US, if history has taught us anything, it's that laws don't stop people from doing drugs (alcohol being a drug).  And for all the arguments one can make about ruined lives and/or the costs to society, does incarcerating people really save them?  Is running jails and law enforcement efforts to catch drug users/dealers really less expensive than providing people medical treatment?

 

 

Good points ...but

** You said: Who is to say yaba is bad but oxycontin is good?

Like all recreational drugs, regardless of their good or bad points, everyone, including the governments and law enforcement entities far more so, have to recognize the purpose and the use of the drug(s) especially if you argue or imply all the drugs are the same...which they are not.

Even if the presently illegal drugs where to be legalized they still have to be recognized as recreational drugs and therefore acknowledged as recreational drugs for the sole purpose of getting  stoned on ( lets say intoxicated ) and therefor the sole purpose being the fun and the thrills to be obtained from the consumption of the recreational drugs.

Meantime, the Pharmaceutical companies do not specifically and or deliberately manufacture their medicines( Drugs, if you want to call them that ) for recreational purposes, rather they are formulated and supplied for medicinal purpose and sold only for that reason.

So, there is a distinct difference relative to the purpose and use of recreational drugs as compared to medicinal drugs and it is important to separate the uses and purposes of each kind of drug and how they are supplied and by whom.

Unfortunately many of those legal pharmaceutical drugs ( medicines )  are addictive while the prescription users get high on their medicines ( drugs )

I agree that the drugs should be legalized because we would then stop criminalizing people who do consume the drugs and focus on the suppliers of the drugs and handle those people or supply chain entities accordingly while knowing that there will always be a huge market for the recreational drugs while governments and law enforcement entities will never be able to eliminate the suppliers and or the users...never.

But bear in mind...if all the presently deemed illegal recreational drugs were to be legalized for supply and consumption there would still be plenty of black market suppliers capitalizing on the huge and lucrative markets while illegally selling and illegally competing with the legitimate companies....just like the black market that presently exists for the legal pharmaceuticals market.

But still.....A different approach is long over due while the Thai Minister is thinking logically and sensibly...but, he is fighting a very steep, up hill battle.

Cheers

"Good Grief Batman...Finally a Justice minister that is talking some sense"

"Hmmm......Something is not right here Robin....we need to investigate"

Cheers

Anyone want to be my partner.

I am going to market fashionable bullet prove clothing as a gimmicky item

Thai people like gimmicky items.

Cheers

The girl has a case whether people agree with it or not.

The lawyer or lawyers and their law firm will make a case out of it.

She can honestly argue she did not know the man was married or spoken for while did not know that the condo was owned by the women who showed up and forced her out and threw her out in the "manner" that she was removed.

The sideline girl came to do what she was called for and by way of circumstances ends up on the wrong side of an angry bitch that forced her out into the hallway while totally nude and done deliberately to publically shame her and embarrass her while exacting angry bitch vengeance on the sideline girl.

Then, the angry wench goes and foolishly publically posts her angry conduct on Face Book and seen by many and for the record.

In this case I would support the Sideline Girl and her lawsuit.

The angry woman should have, could have handled the situation much better and simply asked the girl to get dressed and please leave...but, she did not and now her angry conduct, and seen for the record, are coming back to bite her in the ass.

I hope the media continues to post the ongoing developments and we learn what becomes of the law suit.

This one is interesting.....and somewhat juicy...lol

*** They should have this one televised on a Judge Judy type of Thai TV program where the plaintiff ( Sideline Girl ) demands monetary compensation from the Defendant ( Angry Bitch ) for unwarranted public shaming and defamation

Defamation. Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person.

Cheers

Silly man

Everyone knows that is what short time hotels are for.

Like Duh....Bringing the other girl back to the shared apartment....real smart Bozo...lol

Cheers

9 hours ago, denkiblue555 said:

Funny stuff......this sounds like a job for Judge Judy ...lol

 

I imagine the TV shows pay a reasonable rate for these type of things - my guess is they will keep this running as long as they can.

No... No......This is one for the Jerry Springer show...Ha Ha

Let them fight it out......Jeeerry, Jeeerry, Jeeerry... lol

Cheers

1 hour ago, nausea said:

This happened to a Thai I know at a mass roadside checkpoint (like they were stopping just about everyone). Tested positive for yabah. On the spot fine of 30,000 baht. He wasn't alone, people were piling up at the ATM. After some negotiation and a phone call, he got away with 20,000 cos he knew somebody who knew somebody.  I did see something on YouTube about a young Farang lady who got caught holding a small amount of weed for her boyfriend at one of the island parties. Same scenario, loads of people caught, 20,000 baht fine. She couldn't pay for some reason (forget the details) ended up in prison for a year.

Perfect example of how the laws do not stop some people from continuing to try the illegal recreational drugs or continue taking the illegal recreational drugs.

The laws really do not work anywhere ...but here in Thailand the laws are enforced on and off not because the laws need to be enforced rather it is like a quick cash machine that just needs to be turned on for awhile...with all the flashing lights and bells and whistles and the media "bling, bling" included  ...and then turns itself off for awhile...lol

Cheers

Yes sir ..yes indeed....another perfect example of misguided and questionable, what is the purpose?,  police work.

It is somewhat of a ongoing comedy show but not really entertaining any longer...just redundant and predictable.

Cheers 

Ha...if you think Thai women are tricky little vixens then the Vietnamese women make the Thai women look amateurish.

You will learn soon enough...lol

Meantime, you will undoubtedly get yourself into some "tight places" while living there.

Cheers

21 hours ago, Rob13 said:

For anybody interested;  I'll double your money back for any cash you deposit into my Paypal account in the  next two days.

I will do yah one better:

I will give you 10 percent on your money and introduce you to a really truly beautiful Thai girl that will fulfill all your dreams come true.

How about that deal.

Cheers

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 6:00 AM, digibum said:

 

True but the Nigerian scams always have a semi-plausible premise that appeals to greed.  Sure, this guy is shady and he needs to move some money around and is willing to pay me to help facilitate that.  Gullible?  Yes.  Greedy?  Yes.

 

You can buy gold for 50% of the market price.  Well, that's just stupid.  Why on earth would anybody sell you gold at half the market rate when they could just walk into a gold shop and sell it at full price?  What possible business model makes this even possible?

 

They charge you 17,990 for 1 baht of gold and they're going to give you another baht of gold (presumably worth 17,990 baht)?  How are they supposed to make the 17,990 baht they just gave you back?  Volume?

 

Here in Thailand GOLD ( as in GOLD ) has a long history of being a very appealing item to own.

That being the case the Thais would fall for a "too good to be true"  gold deal far more so than say a 35 million US dollars just waiting to be transferred to your account scam.

That one works best on gullible and greedy Americans and far more successfully...lol

Cheers

A weird turn of events if ever there was.

If she becomes famous  then more than likely the man that called her ugly will show up wanting a percentage of the fame and fortune....or demand to be her publicity agent...lol

Cheers

Yep....and if you had of told them it is a scam ..as in a scam......understand...a scam...most of them still would have sent the money believing their dreams of good fortune have come true while they would argue they are more astute about such opportunities that others can not comprehend.

Yes sir, they will have you know that : You don't know what they know..."so do not lecture me"... they would argue.

Cheers

Hey.......this is Thailand.......Thai women galore....plenty of women you can meet ..here... there... everywhere ...and I am not talking about prostitutes ...rather your average Thai women that you can easily chat up while most of them are very approachable and friendly.

Of course it helps if you can speak Thai.....but even then, there are enough Thai females that can speak passable English...it is just a matter of percentages and keep on trying

In other words you do not have to be a Matt Damon to find female companionships here in Thailand.

I always assumed that was a No Brainer...but apparently not...lol........while it seems a lot of guys here think that you have to be a movie star of sorts to befriend Thai women.

Cheers

3 hours ago, katana said:

Mymatenate had a recent video prank on the NOM/breast/milk play on words:

 

 

The Thai girls are pretty clueless as to what they are insinuating.

Probably because they have Som Tum on their minds and oblivious to everything around them...lol

Try it in North America....Probably about 40 percent, maybe 50 percent of the girls would stop and give you an earful of their feminist anger ( as in: You sexist pig you..lol...) while some of them might even slap you up the side of the face before they realize the comment was not directed at them.

So, Thailand is not so bad after all...lol

The Thai women often sound like "little munchkins" with their squealy, squeaky sounding high pitched voices...lol

Just saying....but meantime, the Vietnamese language is one of the most irritating languages to listen to when you get a gaggle of women all excitedly talking over one another....yikes ...lol

So, for the women they will have pretty boys with the menu printed across the crotch area of their pants...seen in front of their big banana bulges .....lol

You know...Male - Female equality and all.

Cheers

However, that could all be about to change.

Nope..... that is a fallacy and wishful thinking on the part of those that like to fantasize about a Thailand free of prostitution.

Sure they will crack down on  sex for sale establishments here or there ...but short of an all out war on prostitution, that would end in social disaster anyhow, the sex for sale industry is not simply going to go away...ever....as in never.

Meantime...human trafficking should be stringently policed and the laws enforced and those involved severely penalized for their human  trafficking activities  while under age girls should be policed also and penalized in benevolent ways but not criminalized while indentured sexual servitude should also be policed and enforced and eliminated where possible.

Meantime we know that most of the prostitution that goes on here in Thailand is done in a manner that everyone involved knowingly understands the ground rules and all the  participants more or less willingly engage themselves while they can decide to participate or not participate...

That aspect of prostitution should not be criminalized nor should anyone be demonized for participating whether it be the entrepreneur who operates a business establishment that accommodates the prostitution or the workers that prostitute themselves or the patrons, as it is not going to go away and better that is all above board and not deemed illegal and therefore operating in the shadows.

But ...go ahead and try to eliminate prostitution and learn the hard way it is impossible to eliminate.

Cheers

Dumb idea in many respects.

If ( as in If ) they were to do this for genuine security reasons and security reasons only, maybe you could half heartedly agree...but here in Thailand it will turn into a scam of sorts and or corrupted in ways only the Thais can corrupt something....as it always does.

Cheers