Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?

[JSixpack]

47 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

      Simon43 has much more discipline than I do.  I just could not force myself thru body weight exercises.  I wish I could and it is something I am thinking about so that I don't miss any muscle building opportunities when I am away from bkk where I get several weight lifting sessions a week.

 

For him the cardio is the main thing. Now running on the road I find pretty interesting for the scenery and the "runner's high." You see a lot more that way. When I'm on my motorbike I'm just looking out for traffic and obstacles, trying to keep the shiny side up. But running on the road comes at a price, as tropo has pointed out. Look for joint problems later. Not good.

 

You gotta do whatever's necessary for achieving ideal weight and fitness. That's a MAJOR priority. Later you may change your methods and maintain.

 

I find you can be less disciplined about working out at home in general because there you can watch videos for the duration. And listen to your own music w/o headphones necessarily. Hate the music played at the professional gyms.

 

[simon43]

The cycling to/from work is very enjoyable because there are very few cars in Naypyidaw (think of the photos all over the internet of the 20 lane roads with no cars). I cycle to work along a 16-lane road AND there is a separate service road. Absolute cycling bliss. If it pours with rain, then I use my motorbike.

As for the jogging, I don't push myself too hard. Both cycling and jogging is primarily for cardio of course.

So I don't do much weight-training right now, which is also because I have been living out of a shoe-box hotel room for 18 months, because the local police would not allow a foreigner (me) to rent a house (the authorities in Naypyidaw are a little 'funny' about foreigners LoL!). Happily, they now are OK for me to move to a rented house with a garden (owned by some absent general in Yangon). It also has a large car-port where I can exercise.

To summarise, please don't think I have a lot of self-discipline, because I don't. The main thing for me was to lose the flab before I hit 60 years old. I achieved that mainly with a good diet, and having got rid of the flab, there is absolutely no way that I am going to backslide......

[saraht1]

High protein whilst making sure you eat a lot of vegetables is a great idea!

[robblok]

On 06/02/2018 at 3:12 PM, JSixpack said:

 

For him the cardio is the main thing. Now running on the road I find pretty interesting for the scenery and the "runner's high." You see a lot more that way. When I'm on my motorbike I'm just looking out for traffic and obstacles, trying to keep the shiny side up. But running on the road comes at a price, as tropo has pointed out. Look for joint problems later. Not good.

 

You gotta do whatever's necessary for achieving ideal weight and fitness. That's a MAJOR priority. Later you may change your methods and maintain.

 

I find you can be less disciplined about working out at home in general because there you can watch videos for the duration. And listen to your own music w/o headphones necessarily. Hate the music played at the professional gyms.

 

Sorry for picking up so late and reviving a topic.

 

The runners high is a good feeling i used to get it too from cardio, i still dislike cardio but at times it is clearly needed.

 

Yes we all need to do whatever is necessary, but its best to find something that suits you and is not to hard to do (I mean no need to travel far to do it ect). Once you find something you like (or not hate) its often better then doing the best exercise (if you hate it) consistency always wins out in the long run. 

 

Working out at home is not for everyone, for me its great but it took me a while to get all the stuff i needed. The pre's are of course like you mentioned with cardio you can watch movies, and there is always your own music. Not to mention you can set the aircon the way you like it and ad as many ventilators as you want.

 

For me the convenience of training at home has kept me going for a long time, no need to travel (though now they opened up gyms at 10-15 minutes from my home). I have worked out at those gyms but noticed that I had to wait longer for the machines talked more with people.. my workout became much longer (but did not really increase in real volume). In the end i stopped as it took up too much time and went back home. I did like it in the gyms the social contact part and seeing others can be motivating. 

 

As for gaining muscle, IMHO it can only be done by strength training. You can start with body-weight but it can only get you that far. Diet wise as long as you eat 1 to 1,5 gram of protein per KG of body-weight  you should be ok.  Building muscle will go slower (maybe not at first) as losing fat. If I could build half a kg of muscle a week month in month out id be real happy (impossible as you progress) but losing fat at that rate is easier done.

[simon43]

I moved a few weeks ago to a new hotel in Naypyitaw. This has large gardens and now I can jog round the hotel lake without worrying about cars etc.  I'm jogging 5 Km when I get up at 6 am and the same distance again around 5 pm.  

 

I have a pull-up/chin-up bar which I've fixed to the air-con compressor on my terrace (it's firmly attached to the wall!).  So I can easily do pull-ups etc any time I walk out on my terrace.

 

As for diet, I've modified this slightly after having a health check-up in BKK a few weeks ago.  I have reduced my weekly tinned mackerel intake, and have sustituted soy milk for 50% of my normal milk intake. I'm eating more fibre (pumpkin seeds, flax seeds) as well.

[robblok]

29 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I moved a few weeks ago to a new hotel in Naypyitaw. This has large gardens and now I can jog round the hotel lake without worrying about cars etc.  I'm jogging 5 Km when I get up at 6 am and the same distance again around 5 pm.  

 

I have a pull-up/chin-up bar which I've fixed to the air-con compressor on my terrace (it's firmly attached to the wall!).  So I can easily do pull-ups etc any time I walk out on my terrace.

 

As for diet, I've modified this slightly after having a health check-up in BKK a few weeks ago.  I have reduced my weekly tinned mackerel intake, and have sustituted soy milk for 50% of my normal milk intake. I'm eating more fibre (pumpkin seeds, flax seeds) as well.

I wish i could eat tinned mackerel, i liked the smoked ones in the Netherlands. I have problems eating fish (not a fish person) though I now eat some smoked salmon from Ikea on some bread made with Ikea breadmix (real nice dark multigrain bread). 

 

Wow two cardio sessions a day, that is a lot (for me at least). I now do loaded carries (farmers walk) every morning and 4 times a week i workout in my gym. Your doing well Simon, if you can keep that up its quite good.

 

As for pull-ups there are many variations and you can help it to strengthen your back and biceps. 

[tropo]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

I moved a few weeks ago to a new hotel in Naypyitaw. This has large gardens and now I can jog round the hotel lake without worrying about cars etc.  I'm jogging 5 Km when I get up at 6 am and the same distance again around 5 pm.  

 

I have a pull-up/chin-up bar which I've fixed to the air-con compressor on my terrace (it's firmly attached to the wall!).  So I can easily do pull-ups etc any time I walk out on my terrace.

 

As for diet, I've modified this slightly after having a health check-up in BKK a few weeks ago.  I have reduced my weekly tinned mackerel intake, and have sustituted soy milk for 50% of my normal milk intake. I'm eating more fibre (pumpkin seeds, flax seeds) as well.

What information did the blood tests give you that required a lower intake of tinned mackerel? I can't think of any basic parameters that tinned mackerel would influence... and what was your reasoning behind changing to soy milk?

[tropo]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

 Working out at home is not for everyone, for me its great but it took me a while to get all the stuff i needed. The pre's are of course like you mentioned with cardio you can watch movies, and there is always your own music. Not to mention you can set the aircon the way you like it and ad as many ventilators as you want.

 

For me the convenience of training at home has kept me going for a long time, no need to travel (though now they opened up gyms at 10-15 minutes from my home). I have worked out at those gyms but noticed that I had to wait longer for the machines talked more with people.. my workout became much longer (but did not really increase in real volume). In the end i stopped as it took up too much time and went back home. I did like it in the gyms the social contact part and seeing others can be motivating. 

4

Training at home rocks! I haven't been anywhere near a public gym now since 2013. Time flies! 

 

To add to your list of pros... you can wear what you like, which for me is shirtless and no shoes. It's also a lot cleaner as you're not sitting on equipment used by hundreds of dirty people before you... and never cleaned, as in the case of a gym I used to train at in Pattaya.

 

If you can't motivate yourself at home, you're not going to be highly motivated at a public gym either. I'm a lot more motivated at home because most things about public gyms I find annoying.... that would be a long list of negatives in the case of gyms in Pattaya.

[flyingfox1]

Just life you life happy no matter


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[simon43]

Quote

 

What information did the blood tests give you that required a lower intake of tinned mackerel? I can't think of any basic parameters that tinned mackerel would influence... and what was your reasoning behind changing to soy milk?
 

 

 

My uric acid level was a little high, and from consideration of my diet, it suggests that my daily consumption of tinned tuna or mackerel might be the cause.  I've reduced my consumption to a couple of times a week and I'll retest at Christmas.

 

My Cholesterol LDL was 163, higher than the recommended 130.  My HDL was good at 59.  The calculated total cholesterol was high at 229.  This was a surprise because my diet consists of fresh fruit, vegetable, oily fish, nuts, green tea, keffir milk and muesli.  Again, consideration of my diet suggests that maybe drinking too much full-fat milk is the cause of these raised levels, (I drink 2 glasses of home-made keffir every day, made from Dutch Milk full-fat milk).

 

I haven't eliminated milk from my diet, but have reduced it and drink soy milk as an alternative.

 

Just life you life happy no matter 

 

I live a very happy life, especially because I'm reasonably fit and healthy.

[tropo]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

My uric acid level was a little high, and from consideration of my diet, it suggests that my daily consumption of tinned tuna or mackerel might be the cause.  I've reduced my consumption to a couple of times a week and I'll retest at Christmas.

 

My Cholesterol LDL was 163, higher than the recommended 130.  My HDL was good at 59.  The calculated total cholesterol was high at 229.  This was a surprise because my diet consists of fresh fruit, vegetable, oily fish, nuts, green tea, keffir milk and muesli.  Again, consideration of my diet suggests that maybe drinking too much full-fat milk is the cause of these raised levels, (I drink 2 glasses of home-made keffir every day, made from Dutch Milk full-fat milk).

 

I haven't eliminated milk from my diet, but have reduced it and drink soy milk as an alternative.

 

Here's some food for thought.

 

You may not have a cholesterol problem and lowering it could shorten your life:

 

http://www.ravnskov.nu/2015/12/27/myth-9/

 

https://medium.com/the-mission/higher-cholesterol-is-associated-with-longer-life-b4090f28d96e

 

Even if you believe the cholesterol is killing you, there's ample evidence to show that dairy cream is not the culprit and doesn't raise blood cholesterol.

 

https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/7/6/1041/4568638

 

 

[simon43]

You may not have a cholesterol problem and lowering it could shorten your life:

 

LoL, damned if I do and damned if I don't...

 

Actually, considering the healthy diet that I've followed for over a year, I don't think I have a cholesterol problem, nor a uric acid problem nor any problem.  I'm just 'tweaking' my diet to see how changes affect my blood work results.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

LoL, damned if I do and damned if I don't...

 

Actually, considering the healthy diet that I've followed for over a year, I don't think I have a cholesterol problem, nor a uric acid problem nor any problem.  I'm just 'tweaking' my diet to see how changes affect my blood work results.

 

The thing is, people are stressed out about "high" cholesterol numbers because of years of fake science which lines the pockets of pharmaceutical companies that produce statin drugs to lower it. 

 

It's possible that the reason people live longer with high cholesterol is that those people don't take cholesterol-lowering drugs.

 

My uric acid is mid-normal, but I had a look into it after your post, where you suggest that tinned fish could be causing it. Is it purine-rich foods that can raise uric acid? It didn't see mackerel or tuna on the list of purine-rich foods.

[watcharacters]

 

Long term..

 

It has to be a committed lifestyle..

 

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Long term..

 

It has to be a committed lifestyle..

 

No long-term success is possible without short-term goals. 

[watcharacters]

20 minutes ago, tropo said:

No long-term success is possible without short-term goals. 

 

 

And long term means committed life style.

 

[GarryP]

As your body gets older it responds differently to certain foods which were never a noticeable problem before. I have had to greatly cut down on dairy product intake because my body no longer is able to properly digest them.  I was becoming a walking fart factory, until I stopped eating yogurt altogether.  I have since learned that lactose intolerance linked to aging is not uncommon. I raise this as an example of things that change in our bodies as we age.   It is certainly worth considering what volumes and types of foods we need to be particularly careful of as we get older. 

 

I would love to get toned around the middle, but have given up and am settling with simply staying at a relatively healthy weight. 

 

Damn, I never realized aging would be like this. 

[tropo]

1 minute ago, watcharacters said:

And long term means committed life style.

 

2

What's your point? How does that help anyone? We can't think long-term because there are too many variables. I've committed to long-term health and fitness since I was a young teenager and I'm losing...... to the inevitable deterioration due to the natural ageing process.

 

Concentrate on a week or a month. I don't ever want to think long-term. It's depressing. I'm well aware of what it leads to.

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, GarryP said:

As your body gets older it responds differently to certain foods which were never a noticeable problem before. I have had to greatly cut down on dairy product intake because my body no longer is able to properly digest them.  I was becoming a walking fart factory, until I stopped eating yogurt altogether.  I have since learned that lactose intolerance linked to aging is not uncommon. I raise this as an example of things that change in our bodies as we age.   It is certainly worth considering what volumes and types of foods we need to be particularly careful of as we get older. 

 

I would love to get toned around the middle, but have given up and am settling with simply staying at a relatively healthy weight. 

 

Damn, I never realized aging would be like this. 

Have you tried kefir? The deterioration of your intestinal flora could be a major factor in your increasing food intolerances. Kefir will fix that up.

[simon43]

Tropo, Dr Google tells me that tinned fish, especially tuna is high in purines and too much consumption can increase uric acid levels and lead to gout.

 

I don't have gout, and my uric acid level was 7.5, slightly above the acceptable limit of 7.2.  I'm not saying that eating tinned fish most evenings has caused this, but I need to vary my diet more in any case to ward off boredom.

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, tropo said:

Have you tried kefir? The deterioration of your intestinal flora could be a major factor in your increasing food intolerances. Kefir will fix that up.

No, I haven't. I hadn't heard of it before Simon mentioned it. Actually, apart from the gas problem, I am able to eat just about anything. I do, however, recall the days when if I wanted to do bit of spring cleaning of my bowels, all that was required was a single bottle of Yakult. 

 

I had a milk problem when I was very young, too young to remember now. My mother told me that as a result of some allergy I was fed watered down Carnation milk as a baby. This could be something to do with it. 

[tropo]

9 hours ago, GarryP said:

No, I haven't. I hadn't heard of it before Simon mentioned it. Actually, apart from the gas problem, I am able to eat just about anything. I do, however, recall the days when if I wanted to do bit of spring cleaning of my bowels, all that was required was a single bottle of Yakult. 

 

I had a milk problem when I was very young, too young to remember now. My mother told me that as a result of some allergy I was fed watered down Carnation milk as a baby. This could be something to do with it. 

You're probably right then - you just have lactose intolerance. It's not an allergy though, just an insufficiency of lactase, the enzyme necessary to digest lactose. What surprises me is that you're still not sure about it. Why is that?  

[tropo]

9 hours ago, simon43 said:

Tropo, Dr Google tells me that tinned fish, especially tuna is high in purines and too much consumption can increase uric acid levels and lead to gout.

 

I don't have gout, and my uric acid level was 7.5, slightly above the acceptable limit of 7.2.  I'm not saying that eating tinned fish most evenings has caused this, but I need to vary my diet more in any case to ward off boredom.

I agree that any problems with kidney function require one's full attention... immediately. What about the eGFR. Did your test include that test? That's one of the best tests of kidney function and whether the kidneys are on the way to failing. My lab has only just started including this test in the Kidney Function panel.

[GarryP]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

You're probably right then - you just have lactose intolerance. It's not an allergy though, just an insufficiency of lactase, the enzyme necessary to digest lactose. What surprises me is that you're still not sure about it. Why is that?  

I never questioned my mother about it and it has only just become a problem again. My mother died a long time ago and my father said he could not recall what the problem was but assumed it was linked in to atopy. Anyway, my milk intake has always been quite low so it was never an issue. I was never into drinking milk beverages or the like. But I did like an occasional yogurt, which became more regular in my early 50s, until this problem started to show its head. Anyway, no big deal because so much of the yogurt had a quite high sugar content so I am probably better off without it.

 

My dad who is 86 had to switch to soya milk a few years ago when he started to have problems with dairy milk so it appears to be a hereditary thing. 

[dontoearth]

     There is an awful lot of new research on milk that it is not a good food at all for anyone!  You can do a google and watch some medical doctors and researchers explain their findings.  Milk is certainly not what they told us it was in grade school nutrition and health class.  I am allergic to milk and don't miss it at all after looking over some of this new information that has come out on milk in the last few years.

[tropo]

22 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     There is an awful lot of new research on milk that it is not a good food at all for anyone!  You can do a google and watch some medical doctors and researchers explain their findings.  Milk is certainly not what they told us it was in grade school nutrition and health class.  I am allergic to milk and don't miss it at all after looking over some of this new information that has come out on milk in the last few years.

Too bad for me then. I'm drinking at least 1L of raw milk per day and loving it. I've been reading "research" about this for years. I particularly love the oft-cited statement that cow's milk is for baby cows and not for humans. Talk about childish logic. Good luck trying to find any food that is specifically designed for human consumption, besides human breast milk, that is. The human diet is so diverse (and has been since the dawn or creation of mankind) no one has a clue about what we SHOULD eat. I do know that people of my heritage (Northern Europe) consume a truckload of milk and dairy products every year and have been for all recorded history. My Asian wife has trouble with it, so she doesn't drink it.

 

I doubt you're allergic to milk. You're probably suffering from lactose intolerance and can't digest it well. Too bad you can't enjoy it. Milk fat is a gift from God.

 

 

[dontoearth]

53 minutes ago, tropo said:

Too bad for me then. I'm drinking at least 1L of raw milk per day and loving it. I've been reading "research" about this for years. I particularly love the oft-cited statement that cow's milk is for baby cows and not for humans. Talk about childish logic. Good luck trying to find any food that is specifically designed for human consumption, besides human breast milk, that is. The human diet is so diverse (and has been since the dawn or creation of mankind) no one has a clue about what we SHOULD eat. I do know that people of my heritage (Northern Europe) consume a truckload of milk and dairy products every year and have been for all recorded history. My Asian wife has trouble with it, so she doesn't drink it.

 

I doubt you're allergic to milk. You're probably suffering from lactose intolerance and can't digest it well. Too bad you can't enjoy it. Milk fat is a gift from God.

 

 

     I was talking the real research not the vegan nonsense.  Evidently, milk has been identified as a cause of Atherosclerosis, Osteoporosis, and now Rheumatoid Arthritis.  

     BTW!  I would be very willing to drink raw milk.  I did drink that as a child living on a farm.  I had no trouble with it at all.  I started to throw up drinking the carton processed milk from the USA school lunch program back in the 60's.  I was force-fed by my teachers and punished everyday until I learned to keep it down!  Starting a decade ago I developed acid reflux from milk.  I am glad to be rid of it as a food.  There is no benefit from milk that can't be found in lots of other foods.  The USA govt. has made it illegal to buy raw milk.  They have even arrested Amish farmers with swat teams that used to let neighbors stop and get it in glass jars.  So no milk for me.  I do enjoy aged raw milk cheese.

     The new research is convincing enough for me but I will let people look it over on their own as somehow milk is sacred to some folks and they just go ballistic over these new findings.

      

 

[tropo]

59 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     I was talking the real research not the vegan nonsense.  Evidently, milk has been identified as a cause of Atherosclerosis, Osteoporosis, and now Rheumatoid Arthritis.  

     BTW!  I would be very willing to drink raw milk.  I did drink that as a child living on a farm.  I had no trouble with it at all.  I started to throw up drinking the carton processed milk from the USA school lunch program back in the 60's.  I was force-fed by my teachers and punished everyday until I learned to keep it down!  Starting a decade ago I developed acid reflux from milk.  I am glad to be rid of it as a food.  There is no benefit from milk that can't be found in lots of other foods.  The USA govt. has made it illegal to buy raw milk.  They have even arrested Amish farmers with swat teams that used to let neighbors stop and get it in glass jars.  So no milk for me.  I do enjoy aged raw milk cheese.

     The new research is convincing enough for me but I will let people look it over on their own as somehow milk is sacred to some folks and they just go ballistic over these new findings.

      

 

Seriously, it would be impossible to identify a food source as a cause of Atherosclerosis, Osteoporosis and Arthritis. The main reason being that no person eats just one food all of their life and these diseases take decades to develop. Also, most people drink milk and/or other dairy products. From my own research, testing and anecdotal observations I have come to the conclusion that a boron deficiency is the cause of those diseases. Of course, the pharmaceutical industry will want to keep this secret so they can make billions selling medication for the big 3 you mentioned. I have arthritis and have been virtually pain-free since I started supplementing boron about 6 months ago... yet I drink lots and lots of milk. Decades ago a doctor in WA discovered that borax cured arthritis (he was treating many patients with it) and he decided to inform the drug companies about his findings. Big mistake! The government soon classified borax as a poison so that no doctor could prescribe it. How dare someone try to cure arthritis with a common salt that costs peanuts! Double-blind studies at Melbourne University in the early 80's confirmed his findings. 

 

Most of us have boron deficiency as it is not available in the soil in most countries. Modern farming practices have depleted it. Countries that have adequate soil-boron have a very low incidence of arthritis. eg. Less than 1% in Israel.

 

 

[dontoearth]

19 minutes ago, tropo said:

Seriously, it would be impossible to identify a food source as a cause of Atherosclerosis, Osteoporosis and Arthritis. The main reason being that no person eats just one food all of their life and these diseases take decades to develop. Also, most people drink milk and/or other dairy products

     They worked thru the studies in another way.  They identified countries with little to no milk in their diet and found the incidence of these diseases almost nonexistent.  Some doctors in countries that don't have milk in the diet had never seen a case of Osteoporosis at all.  

       The RA is based on the identification of a new bacteria discovered in milk and feed lot beef.  The news broke a few weeks ago.  

        To me it is all moot!  I don't drink milk and I don't have acid reflux.  WIN-WIN!

        As for the depletion of the soils and the lack of decent nutrients in our food.  I am in 100% agreement with you on that.  I believe the nutritionally devoid foods people are woofing down are disease magnets!

[faraday]

Milk....a cause of Osteoporosis?

Bollerques.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27726930/