Now I'm slim, what diet to aid muscle mass increase?

[faraday]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10759135/

[tropo]

27 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     They worked thru the studies in another way.  They identified countries with little to no milk in their diet and found the incidence of these diseases almost nonexistent.  Some doctors in countries that don't have milk in the diet had never seen a case of Osteoporosis at all.  

       The RA is based on the identification of a new bacteria discovered in milk and feed lot beef.  The news broke a few weeks ago.  

        To me it is all moot!  I don't drink milk and I don't have acid reflux.  WIN-WIN!

        As for the depletion of the soils and the lack of decent nutrients in our food.  I am in 100% agreement with you on that.  I believe the nutritionally devoid foods people are woofing down are disease magnets!

I'll look for the new studies you mention and make some comments after I'm better informed about the research you're referencing... no links to make the job easier?

[robblok]

25 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     They worked thru the studies in another way.  They identified countries with little to no milk in their diet and found the incidence of these diseases almost nonexistent.  Some doctors in countries that don't have milk in the diet had never seen a case of Osteoporosis at all.  

       The RA is based on the identification of a new bacteria discovered in milk and feed lot beef.  The news broke a few weeks ago.  

        To me it is all moot!  I don't drink milk and I don't have acid reflux.  WIN-WIN!

        As for the depletion of the soils and the lack of decent nutrients in our food.  I am in 100% agreement with you on that.  I believe the nutritionally devoid foods people are woofing down are disease magnets!

Those studies are remarkably ineffective.. as they just assume its milk while there are countless other factors. Fact remains as you see in post 90 most research (and current research) still supports milk. Its often pushed by vegans (one vegan study showed it was bad.. suprise suprise). Anyway as you say the point is moot as you don't drink milk. I drink milk but not that much actually. (calories)

 

Oh remember when i said that there was no proof for low carb not slowing down metabolic rate long term. They now have done a study on a new diet that does prevent it and it looks a lot like carb - calorie cycling. It goes something like this 2 weeks diet (however you want) 2 weeks eating at maintenance.. it does slow progress but long term it works beter. 

 

Below the reference to the actual study.

 

1. Byrne, N. M., Sainsbury, A., King, N. A., Hills, A. P., & Wood, R. E. (2017). Intermittent energy restriction improves weight loss efficiency in obese men: The MATADOR study. International Journal of Obesity,42(2), 129-138.

[dontoearth]

11 minutes ago, tropo said:

I'll look for the new studies you mention and make some comments after I'm better informed about the research you're referencing... no links to make the job easier?

    Actually, my comment earlier was that telling anyone milk was not a good food sources was like telling toddlers Santa is a myth.  I just don't get into it anymore with people about this subject.  I gave my Dad the actual study from Mayo Clinic asking all heart patients to refrain from milk.  He drank 2 gallons a week anyway as he suffered through 5 more heart attacks right up until he croaked.  The take away is that many people don't believe real science and are more apt to believe their 8th grade home economics teacher.  This is life.

     As for research in general I was a tenured Dr. Prof. of Computer Science and an editor/referee for a blind peer review journal and 95% of the food and diet research just doesn't cut the mustard as real research and real science.  The conflicts of interest from the food producers and industry associations just churns out garbage by the page full.

      So I am left to think over and take my chances and make my choices.  Everyone should do the same.  I read most of the links people post but my students used to claim I had a "condescending eye."

      

[faraday]

Post up some links Don.

 

What's a "Dr Professor"?

 

 

 

[dontoearth]

51 minutes ago, faraday said:

Post up some links Don.

 

What's a "Dr Professor"?

 

 

 

     I was a tenured professor with a ph.d.   Let others do some research for a change.

:)

[tropo]

4 hours ago, faraday said:

Milk....a cause of Osteoporosis?

Bollerques.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27726930/

 

The last paragraph says it all:

 

Epidemiological studies face many obstacles when seeking to detect effects of a single food, particularly the multiplicity of interactions among foods. Furthermore, reliable dietary intake data must be collected over prolonged periods, often long before the occurrence of a fracture, and defective recall may therefore introduce a major yet often unrecognized bias, particularly in populations where calcium deficiency is uncommon. To date, there is no conclusive evidence that we should modify our currently high level of consumption of cow's milk.

 

Trying to determine the effects of single foods in human beings is an impossible task... especially over the course of decades that these diseases take to manifest. When you're testing a food that most humans consume, the job becomes even harder.

 

[tropo]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Those studies are remarkably ineffective.. as they just assume its milk while there are countless other factors. Fact remains as you see in post 90 most research (and current research) still supports milk. Its often pushed by vegans (one vegan study showed it was bad.. suprise suprise). Anyway as you say the point is moot as you don't drink milk. I drink milk but not that much actually. (calories)

4

Putting this into perspective, even if you were drinking a liter a day, it's not a big meal:

 

What's in a liter of milk:

 

Approximate - mean values:

 

Water: 87.5 grams

Total solids: 130 grams

Fat: 39 grams

Proteins: 34 grams

Lactose: 48 grams

Mineral: 8 grams

 

http://dairyprocessinghandbook.com/chapter/chemistry-milk

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by tropo

[robblok]

8 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     I was a tenured professor with a ph.d.   Let others do some research for a change.

:)

If you were a tenured professor you would at least do us the favor to give reference studies for the debate. For someone with a scientific background your remarkable silent on that point. That we argue with you is nothing personal. I argue with Tropo all the time while I consider him a friend. I met him a few times for real and planning to do so again.

 

Sure its a bit about having fun in the debate and learning new stuff and I might be blunt annoying when i debate but that is it a debate. I keep my mind open for new things. There are so many studies about so many things its hard to know what is true and what is not. Like you said many studies are not worth the paper they are written on. But unlike computer science or my field accounting, diet and muscle gain are far harder to get consensus on. Studies are expensive because if you want to do real good studies you have to lock people up in a lab and do the test. Now if you want a large sample group and long term you can imagine the costs. 

 

 

[robblok]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

Putting this into perspective, even if you were drinking a liter a day, it's not a big meal:

 

What's in a liter of milk:

 

Approximate - mean values:

 

Water: 87.5 grams

Total solids: 130 grams

Fat: 39 grams

Proteins: 34 grams

Lactose: 48 grams

Mineral: 8 grams

 

http://dairyprocessinghandbook.com/chapter/chemistry-milk

 

Les, i told you more then a few times my thyroid is not as fast as it should be. I am not taking the t4 to improve that as it messes with my sleep.. kinda a double edged sword. I choose sleep.

 

So when I cut I really have think of my calories and where i get them from. That means no milk but water in my shakes. I don't drink milk normally as i don't find the taste anything like back home. But even back home I did not drink it much on itself.

 

Now when cutting i don't take any drinks with calories (except protein shakes). I even take more protein shakes as normal on a cut to keep the protein high, while overall calories are low. 

[faraday]

Very good post Rob. A healthy debate, where we can speak as if face to face.

 

Are you a bb'er?

 

I used to be - not competatively at at all. But was using heavy weights when I was in the UK. Now, my hip prevents me.

I see you mention T4....are you doing a weight loss cycle?

 

And Milk. Is 100% fresh available easily here?

 

 

[dontoearth]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

Trying to determine the effects of single foods in human beings is an impossible task... especially over the course of decades that these diseases take to manifest. When you're testing a food that most humans consume, the job becomes even harder.

 

    Science is moving forward and IS able to determine certain foods and bacteria are causing disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/beef-milk-bacteria-may-have-negative-impact-on-rheumatoid-arthritis

[dontoearth]

37 minutes ago, robblok said:

If you were a tenured professor you would at least do us the favor to give reference studies for the debate.

     I never catered to the lazy students that didn't want to do any original work.  I believe we are turning out a generation of mental weaklings today in university.  GIVE ME GIVE!  DO FOR ME!  And I will try to remember what you put on the hand outs.  That is not educating anyone.   Endless begging for the answers is not the hallmark of an educated person.

[transam]

One things for sure, doesn't matter what I do in the gym nothing works on my face looking near 70...

But, seems Arnie and Sly haven't cracked that either...

[dontoearth]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

The last paragraph says it all:

 

Epidemiological studies face many obstacles when seeking to detect effects of a single food, particularly the multiplicity of interactions among foods. Furthermore, reliable dietary intake data must be collected over prolonged periods, often long before the occurrence of a fracture, and defective recall may therefore introduce a major yet often unrecognized bias, particularly in populations where calcium deficiency is uncommon. To date, there is no conclusive evidence that we should modify our currently high level of consumption of cow's milk.

 

Trying to determine the effects of single foods in human beings is an impossible task... especially over the course of decades that these diseases take to manifest. When you're testing a food that most humans consume, the job becomes even harder.

 

 

     Looked at the abstract.  I would love to see and track the disclosure of interest forms.  I think the idea that they can't tell if single foods have any effect on humans are preposterous.  Have they taken a large dose of nightshade?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     I never catered to the lazy students that didn't want to do any original work.  I believe we are turning out a generation of mental weaklings today in university.  GIVE ME GIVE!  DO FOR ME!  And I will try to remember what you put on the hand outs.  That is not educating anyone.   Endless begging for the answers is not the hallmark of an educated person.

But perhaps the chaps posting here are just ordinary folk chatting about stuff, that's what a forum is for..

I would love folk to ask me the ups and downs of tuning a Pontiac V8 because my knowledge in that field by my trial and error may help and point in the right direction, but then l am not a miserable type of bloke.....

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

    Science is moving forward and IS able to determine certain foods and bacteria are causing disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/beef-milk-bacteria-may-have-negative-impact-on-rheumatoid-arthritis

Yes but here your quoting a study that has no impact on the general population just like your milk and heart disease you mentioned before has no impact on healthy individuals. This is like saying diebetics should not consume much carbs.

 

It even says in the title MAY.. that is far from definitive and on an already sick group of people. That is why we asked for research so we can draw our own conclusions not blindly trust you. Is that not what debate and science is about ?

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     I never catered to the lazy students that didn't want to do any original work.  I believe we are turning out a generation of mental weaklings today in university.  GIVE ME GIVE!  DO FOR ME!  And I will try to remember what you put on the hand outs.  That is not educating anyone.   Endless begging for the answers is not the hallmark of an educated person.

I think you should tone down a bit I am not one of your students. We are having a debate in here and if you don't come up with facts your even worse as your lazy students. Guess you never heard of onus probandi. 

[faraday]

Don, it appears that you're focusing on Milk as causing Osteoporosis - without any links & it is for you to post them, as you put this hypothesis forward.

 

Osteoporosis is also caused by low Oestrogen in women, lack of Androgens in men, & other factors, such as D3 etc.

I'd be interested in the prevalence of Osteoporosis here, as Milk is not part of the general diet. Doubt there's any reliable studies though.

 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Chicken breasts are tasty, versatile, and full of protein. A couple of eggs a day won't hurt.

A 531 weight program bends in well with a cardio program. It includes a deload week every month. The deload helps prevent burn out.

 

The above combine to grow muscle.

 

The 531 principals - while designed for powerlifters - are also  very useful for basic muscle gain.

 

Cheers

Wendler-PDF(1).pdf

Im sure it works just like 5 x 5 but just find doing low singles hard when i train alone. I prefer higher reps in my program. Does not mean its not a good program just not really what I like doing and it couldbe dangerous to me doing so alone. I focus a bit more on other programs. Truth is all programs work till they don't. Need to change it up after a while.

[poanoi]

real heavy pyramid reps works wonders for me,

the issue is: i always mess up and bust something in my body,

so i think the turtle way of increasing muscles unfortunately win in the long run.

 

on milk, whatever floats your boat i suspect, its not a game breaker either way,

except for kids and teenagers that still have some inches to grow.

i think yogurt is good for my stomach, and the richesse brand is not as sweet

as the others here, it also has that refreshing sour taste

[faraday]

2 hours ago, poanoi said:

real heavy pyramid reps works wonders for me,

the issue is: i always mess up and bust something in my body,

so i think the turtle way of increasing muscles unfortunately win in the long run.

 

on milk, whatever floats your boat i suspect, its not a game breaker either way,

except for kids and teenagers that still have some inches to grow.

i think yogurt is good for my stomach, and the richesse brand is not as sweet

as the others here, it also has that refreshing sour taste

Your back seems to have made a miraculous recovery.

[poanoi]

3 minutes ago, faraday said:

Your back seems to have made a miraculous recovery.

well, it works like a charm right up to the point where i bust my body

so hard i cant go back to the gym no more

[tropo]

7 hours ago, dontoearth said:

     Looked at the abstract.  I would love to see and track the disclosure of interest forms.  I think the idea that they can't tell if single foods have any effect on humans are preposterous.  Have they taken a large dose of nightshade?

 Now you're comparing milk with poison... or are you referring to potatoes or tomatoes, in the nightshade family?

[tropo]

6 hours ago, faraday said:

Don, it appears that you're focusing on Milk as causing Osteoporosis - without any links & it is for you to post them, as you put this hypothesis forward.

 

Osteoporosis is also caused by low Oestrogen in women, lack of Androgens in men, & other factors, such as D3 etc.

I'd be interested in the prevalence of Osteoporosis here, as Milk is not part of the general diet. Doubt there's any reliable studies though.

 

I don't know about milk not being part of the general diet in Thailand. Dairy products are available in large selections and quantities in every supermarket and convenience store. I've never seen so many different varieties of milk.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, faraday said:

Very good post Rob. A healthy debate, where we can speak as if face to face.

 

Are you a bb'er?

 

I used to be - not competatively at at all. But was using heavy weights when I was in the UK. Now, my hip prevents me.

I see you mention T4....are you doing a weight loss cycle?

 

And Milk. Is 100% fresh available easily here?

 

 

I might be called a BB'er by most but I am not as big as the real big guys. 

 

I mentioned T4 as i got a slow thyroid and they said that would help, however it keeps me up at night so I don't take it. Bodybuilders would use t3 (shorter half life and more potent). 

 

I am losing weight but unlike other bodybuilders i try to stay lean year round, not into bulking and cutting cycles. If i grow i don't want to get too fat. But the point is moot as I am close to my genetic potential and my gains have slowed down to 1 to 2 kg a year or so. (hard to really tell). 

 

However i got fat because a I had a few months in a row where i could not sleep well. I woke up multiple times a night. That impacted my training and i lost motivation about healthy food.. pooof.. heavier. Now I still need to lose 1 or 2 kg of that fat but decided that after i get rid of that fat I will go down an other 3 to 4 kg. Only reason is that i see my weight loss going quite well now. 

 

It is a bit boring if your close to genetic potential as your just going through the motions without much progress in weight and - or muscle. So I am trying to find a trainer and / or new program that would help me a bit. Not so much that I want to be bigger (quite happy how i look) or stronger its just that i want to have a goal something else than maintaining the status quo. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by robblok

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't know about milk not being part of the general diet in Thailand. Dairy products are available in large selections and quantities in every supermarket and convenience store. I've never seen so many different varieties of milk.

Come to Holland and you will see even more varieties of milk yoghurt and dairy. 

[tropo]

 

34 minutes ago, robblok said:

Come to Holland and you will see even more varieties of milk yoghurt and dairy. 

Paradise!!

[faraday]

Think I worded my milk comment incorrectly. Thai people don't drink nearly as much milk as we did in Farangistan, nor Yoghurt. Miss eating 300/400 ml of it in one go - & then feeling way too full.

 

And then, there's Cheese!

 

Cheddar, Camembert, Edam....& Gouda!

[poanoi]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

 

Paradise!!

if you want to enter milkyway heaven, go to sweden and buy the

yogurt/kefir with cloudberries, its called fjällfil sold per liter