Lancelot01 Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Reuters + a political dinosaur 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 14 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: As for Heseltine - he's in the same 'box' as Blair IMO, although from different perceptives. Heseltine wanted the low paid/unemployed to 'get on their 'bike' - wheres Blair had the power to issue lies that would convince 'patriots'. That was Tebbit not Heseltine. Tebbit is the guy who was very pro EU when Thatcher was in power and voted in favour of the Thatcher SEA and every piece of EU legislation but once Thatcher lost power he became anti EU. Heseltine is the one who has been consistently pro EU all his life. I grew up in the 30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot; he got on his bike and looked for work and he kept looking 'til he found it. Tebbit Speech to the Conservative Party Conference (15 October, 1981). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nontabury Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 8 hours ago, pitrevie said: That was Tebbit not Heseltine. Tebbit is the guy who was very pro EU when Thatcher was in power and voted in favour of the Thatcher SEA and every piece of EU legislation but once Thatcher lost power he became anti EU. Heseltine is the one who has been consistently pro EU all his life. I grew up in the 30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot; he got on his bike and looked for work and he kept looking 'til he found it. Tebbit Speech to the Conservative Party Conference (15 October, 1981). I wonder WHY Heseltine is so in favour of this so called Union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, nontabury said: I wonder WHY Heseltine is so in favour of this so called Union? Are you that naive that you think withdrawal from the EU means the end of farming subsidies? The hard right of the Tory party will make sure that their farming constituency is taken care of just like they did prior to us joining the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 How do you reverse a democratic vote, Is that not called dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybiker Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Without doing specific research the EU farm subsidies will be worse off than our UK farmer's.Anyone would think just because we're leaving the EU political arm that any ongoing homegrown projects will cease ongoing funding too.The U.K. Has ongoing economic obligations it will inherit from EU withdrawal, it's not just regulations and all things attached.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Thongkorn said: How do you reverse a democratic vote, Is that not called dictatorship. Nope its called a general election or indeed a referendum. You will recall that referendum No 2 held in 2016 reversed the decision of referendum No 1 held in 1975. I don't know how many times this needs repeating but no parliament can bind its successors to any course of course. I will also repeat as it never gets through to some people I am not in favour of referendums just like Mrs T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Referendum No2 was not the successor of No1. Different issues. Shall we stay in EEC in 1975. Stay in EU 2016. Very different institution by 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 minute ago, nanglong218 said: Referendum No2 was not the successor of No1. Different issues. Shall we stay in EEC in 1975. Stay in EU 2016. Very different institution by 2016. Yes of course it was different by 2016 had it not changed that would have been another whinge. They still occupy many of the same buildings, the original members are all still there but its moved on. Our own Parliament has changed in the last 50 years it has ceded many of its powers to other bodies such as the Welsh assembly and the Scottish Parliament along with the EU. The referendum we held in 2016 was the second referendum we held on the European question and if ever there is a third referendum I daresay that the EU will have changed by then and someone will claim that it is not a third referendum but the first probably on the same grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I cannot agree. We joined a community of like minded nations for trade and general co-operation. We did it at a time when our nation was tearing itself apart socially. We were a basket case ruined by internal strife. We needed a new route. There will be no third referendum, when the EU demands you vote again they are taking the pi55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 37 minutes ago, nanglong218 said: I cannot agree. We joined a community of like minded nations for trade and general co-operation. We did it at a time when our nation was tearing itself apart socially. We were a basket case ruined by internal strife. We needed a new route. There will be no third referendum, when the EU demands you vote again they are taking the pi55. The EU didn't demand a second referendum or even a first as a sovereign nation the UK made that decision for itself. There would be nothing stopping a future parliament proposing another referendum or putting the matter to the electorate at a general election. As for that being the final decision I wouldn't presume to know what future generations will decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Pitrevie, you are absolutely correct. I don't know what method of persuasion was used on the Irish or others for a repeat vote but would you agree that we are too big a country and contributor to push around. Massive changes to their European super state dream would be needed before anyone today could accept this. A loose federation perhaps, not to my liking but at least an attempt at compromise. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomacht8 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, pitrevie said: Are you that naive that you think withdrawal from the EU means the end of farming subsidies? The hard right of the Tory party will make sure that their farming constituency is taken care of just like they did prior to us joining the EU. Well, hopefully there will be no delays in payments if the EU stops funding, and then the UK has to organize the subsidies themselves. Then the cake will be redistributed between the Brexit winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, nanglong218 said: Pitrevie, you are absolutely correct. I don't know what method of persuasion was used on the Irish or others for a repeat vote but would you agree that we are too big a country and contributor to push around. Massive changes to their European super state dream would be needed before anyone today could accept this. A loose federation perhaps, not to my liking but at least an attempt at compromise. What say you? Well European superstate as illustrated in the David Icke letter and of course swallowed immediately by the gullible. European superstate another fantasy of Brexiters. You would think anyone seeing anything connected to David Icke would smell a rat but no straight in with the thumbs up even though there is no evidence to support it. I have often made the point that Germany will be no less German in 20 years from now along with all the other countries. Wales and Scotland have been tied to England for some 400 years and are the Scots any less Scottish or the Welsh any less Welsh. In the EU along with Germany and France we are the big three so not much chance of us being pushed around. As Professor Dougan points out very little gets through the EU without the approval of the big 3 and of course most decisions are unanimous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 What on earth has a loon like David Icke got to do with this, you brand me with association. Poor argument. Yes, we will still have our identity (for a while) but we will take our instructions from the centre, Berrusssels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Perhaps you guys didn't read the small print, we hadn't in 1975. I voted IN. Ever closer union, closer ties, political, legal with the eventual aim of what??? I didn't read that bit, must have been hidden away somewhere. Enoch was a racist the press said, his language was harsh, agreed. So we voted for sanity in a modern world where unions and bosses fought but knew when to draw the line and not stifle the economy. We looked up to Europe. That is not the Europe of today. Power centralised into a small clique elected by the chosen few, making decisions for 500 million with preference for a select group. No names!! Remainers seem to think only in economic terms but they don't see the storm clouds gathering, vis a vis East Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, pitrevie said: Well European superstate as illustrated in the David Icke letter and of course swallowed immediately by the gullible. European superstate another fantasy of Brexiters. You would think anyone seeing anything connected to David Icke would smell a rat but no straight in with the thumbs up even though there is no evidence to support it. I have often made the point that Germany will be no less German in 20 years from now along with all the other countries. Wales and Scotland have been tied to England for some 400 years and are the Scots any less Scottish or the Welsh any less Welsh. In the EU along with Germany and France we are the big three so not much chance of us being pushed around. As Professor Dougan points out very little gets through the EU without the approval of the big 3 and of course most decisions are unanimous. You are totally wrong about everything. And you brought Icke up, remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang50 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Thongkorn said: How do you reverse a democratic vote, Is that not called dictatorship. It's what happened in 2016.....unless you rely on the argument that things had moved on between the 1975 and 2016 votes which is as true now in 2017 as it was in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nontabury Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, pitrevie said: Nope its called a general election or indeed a referendum. You will recall that referendum No 2 held in 2016 reversed the decision of referendum No 1 held in 1975. I don't know how many times this needs repeating but no parliament can bind its successors to any course of course. I will also repeat as it never gets through to some people I am not in favour of referendums just like Mrs T. The referendum in 1975 was to confirm our application to join a trading block. The 2016 referendum was whether we should remain in a so-called Union. Edited September 10, 2017 by nontabury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Nontabury, we joined the EEC in 1973 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, chang50 said: It's what happened in 2016.....unless you rely on the argument that things had moved on between the 1975 and 2016 votes which is as true now in 2017 as it was in 2016. Wow! Talk about rewriting history! You remainers have no shame. You lot could walk straight into good work doing PR for dodgy operations anywhere . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Cut it with the silly yellow faces OK, let's talk like grown ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, nanglong218 said: Nontabury, we joined the EEC in 1973 And the referendum to join was done retrospectively in 1975 by the Labour government when they realised that Heath's Tory government had taken us in illegally, without a referendum, in 1973. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 minute ago, nanglong218 said: Cut it with the silly yellow faces OK, let's talk like grown ups Stick your response wherever. This is an internet forum, not an academical site. If you don't like the smileys, complain to the mods and see where that gets you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Should I plead innocence, 23 at the time, deeply depressed by my nations failures, it seemed the best option at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 If you can't communicate in the English language I have little respect for you, and I don't run to teacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 minute ago, nanglong218 said: Should I plead innocence, 23 at the time, deeply depressed by my nations failures, it seemed the best option at the time. Nothing to feel guilty about. We were lied to. Heath later admitted it. There were just a few dissenting voices, such as Enoch Powell, who was considered an embarrassment by that time.Nearly everyone thought we were just joining a mutually beneficial trading bloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, nanglong218 said: If you can't communicate in the English language I have little respect for you, and I don't run to teacher And if you can't respect or understand how an internet forum works, I, in turn, have little respect for you. Do you have any idea how may posts get misinterpreted because posters can't see each others' faces or hear the tone of each others' voices? Time for you to get with the times. Edited September 10, 2017 by Khun Han Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nanglong218 Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 Khun Han, I weep for my beloved country, never perfect but in a terrible state now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 (edited) On 9/10/2017 at 1:04 AM, Lancelot01 said: Reuters + a political dinosaur 'nuff said. Daily Mail and Daily Express fans calling it out to decent journalism is a real hoot. Edited September 10, 2017 by SheungWan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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