EU refugee court ruling triggers new east-west feuding

[webfact]

EU refugee court ruling triggers new east-west feuding

By Michele Sinner and Alastair Macdonald

 

FILE PHOTO: Migrants face Hungarian police in the main Eastern Railway station in Budapest, Hungary, September 1, 2015. REUTE/Laszlo Balogh/File Photo

 

LUXEMBOURG/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The EU's highest court ruled on Wednesday that member states must take in a share of refugees who reach Europe, dismissing complaints by Slovakia and Hungary and reigniting an east-west row that has shaken the Union's cohesion.

 

The Mediterranean migrant crisis which prompted mandatory quotas in 2015 for relocating asylum seekers from Greece and Italy has receded, easing immediate pressure to force compliance on nationalist leaders who are making electoral capital from lambasting the EU while benefiting from Brussels' subsidies.

 

But defiant rejection from some ex-communist states that the EU accuses of slipping on democratic standards - Hungary called the judgement a political "rape" of EU law - indicated no let-up in tensions that are testing the Union's internal cooperation.

 

In Germany, where Chancellor Angela Merkel is fighting for re-election against opponents who criticise her for taking in over a million migrants at the height of the drama, the interior minister threatened legal action against countries which fail to take in their allotted share of Syrian and other refugees.

 

But Hungary, where outspoken Prime Minister Viktor Orban has built border fences and made keeping out migrants a key plank of his re-election campaign for next year, branded the European Court of Justice ruling "appalling and irresponsible".

 

"This decision jeopardises the security and future of all of Europe," Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said.

 

"Politics has raped European law and values."

 

Italy, now the main destination for migrants taking to the sea following measures to block the route from Turkey to Greece and from Greece northward, has been prominent in calling for the wealthier Western states to cut EU subsidies to poor neighbours which do not show "solidarity" in taking in migrants.

 

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has echoed that threat, warning Orban "solidarity is not a one-way street". But the EU executive is also anxious to calm tensions ahead of negotiations on a new seven-year EU budget that will be all the harder because of a hole left by Britain's imminent departure.

 

The Commission said on Wednesday it may seek fines at the ECJ within weeks for Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic if they do not start or resume taking people from the south. Poland and Hungary, which argue Muslim immigration is a threat to their national security and stability, have in two years taken in none of their respective quotas of about 6,200 and 1,300 people.

 

SEEKING "UNITY"

 

However, the executive, which is separately considering trying to suspend eastern heavyweight Poland for undermining the independence of its judiciary, stressed it wanted solutions that would unite the 28-nation bloc. Slovakia's prime minister said he still rejected quotas but was willing to help in other ways.

 

And as the Union digests a Brexit vote last year that was partly driven by concern over migration, many states that backed the quota system in 2015 and are increasingly exasperated by Polish and Hungarian hostility to Brussels are also reluctant to force through new policies that may bolster eurosceptics across Europe who say the EU is trampling on national sovereignty.

 

"If we push it through above their heads, they will use it in their anti-EU propaganda at home," one EU diplomat said, while noting that, with the migration crisis dropping out of the headlines, all sides might find a way to resolve the issue.

 

The Commission is working on reforms to the so-called Dublin rules under which people arriving in the EU must stay to claim asylum in the first country they reach. A mechanism to help the likes of Greece and Italy in emergencies has proved elusive.

 

However, governments may find it easier to negotiate now that the migration is not quite so prominent in local politics.

 

The Luxembourg-based ECJ dismissed "in their entirety" the arguments advanced by Hungary and Slovakia with backing from Poland and endorsed the Commission's solution which eventually ordered states to take in nearly 100,000 Syrians and others.

 

"The mechanism actually contributes to enabling Greece and Italy to deal with the impact of the 2015 migration crisis and is proportionate," the court said in statement.

 

Difficulties in identifying candidates for relocation - and a reluctance of refugees to settle other than in the wealthier west of Europe - saw fewer than 30,000 people relocated in two years, but the Commission noted an acceleration in the programme this year and said it would continue to move people northward.

 

Among the gravest problems the migration crisis caused was member states reimposing controls on internal EU frontiers. That had jeopardised one of the Union's most cherished achievements and for a time appeared to threaten to disrupt internal traffic.

 

EU Migration Commissioner Dimitris Avramopoulos said special exemptions that have allowed the likes of Germany, Austria, Denmark and Sweden to control their borders with EU neighbours should now end when they expire in two months' time.

 

(Additional reporting by Gabriela Baczynska; Writing by Alastair Macdonald; Editing by Andrew Heavens)

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-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-07

[steve187]

the UK is best out of that little problem.

[Rancid]

The joys of EU membership, forced Muslim immigration and a BS cold war with the Russians. Who wouldn't want to join that democratic institution?

[Caps]

Maybe the UK should join up with Poland, Hungry, Czech Republic and Slovakia and we could form our own EU....Exit Union 

 

Maybe if they had taken them all back to the shores of Africa then Italy and Greece would not be in this mess.  

 

[RichardColeman]

I am a Brexiteer, I am glad we will be out of this fiasco. Mass immigration of Muslims and Islam and Africans, more violence, rapes per ethnic group, and nearly ALL MEN. Europe has signed its own death warrant here. Just look at that picture- how many women and children do you see ? Who are these men going to have sex with ? Send them all back - ALL. Europe had to fight its way through its own wars and poverty - these people are spongers and people with no guts to fight for their own country and establish law - as our forefathers did. 

[ELVIS123456]

34 minutes ago, Rancid said:

The joys of EU membership, forced Muslim immigration and a BS cold war with the Russians. Who wouldn't want to join that democratic institution?

So some unelected EU bureaucracy Judges have decided that illegal immigrants (and some real refugees) must be accepted by other Countries,. They have determined that the EU bureaucracy can decide who and how many people can enter each Country.  

 

Surely the majority of people with common sense can see that this is just wrong, and is exactly why the EU is doomed. Some Judge in Brussels can decide border security issues for another Country? Madness. Bureaucratic madness.

 

The UK leaving was just the beginning. More and more in Europe, and in the western world, socialist liberal bureaucracy is finally being seen by People for what it is - utopian marxist lunacy. Socialist France rejected EU 'independence recently, and in the future they will regret it.

 

There are people (and countries) in this world who will take advantage of others - that is why we have Laws and Police and Defence Forces controlled by Governments we elect. Some utopian believers think the world would be a better place without them, but people with common sense understand that it would be nice not to need them, but we do need them. Otherwise the strong and violent will rule the world - like they used to before we had Laws and Police and Defence Forces controlled by people that we elect to Government.

 

Who elected these Judges in the EU Court?  No one. They are not accountable to any people. And there is a form of Government like that - Socialism - and everywhere it has been tried it has been a disaster for the people - not the rich - the real people.  As Churchill said:  "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.… "

Democracy is not perfect, but what makes it better than utopian socialism (in all its forms) is that the people who make decisions are accountable to the people every few years.  These Judges and all members of the EU Bureaucracy are not accountable to the People, and that is why the EU will fail.

 

 

 

 

 

[FreddieRoyle]

The Visegrad block is a net "taker" of EU funds, which is probably why they joined in the 1st place. But, whatever financial hit they must take in the short term they need to leave the EU, if they are not allowed to maintain their heritage and culture. What is happening now is the millions of Africans and Arabs that Merkel invited unilaterally into Germany are proving way too much of a burden on society(ask any German - I asked many and consider myself well educated as to the realities on the ground in Germany) so Merkel is desperate to get rid of them, her political future depends on her being seen to act.

 Do the Visegrad countries really want huge encampments springing up around all transport hubs in the cities? Do the Visegrad people want females to be cowed into hiding at home like in many Parisian and Swedish districts that these migrants have overwhelmed and turned into carbon copies of the countries they came from? Who benefits from such a scenario, and more importantly who loses? Winners will be some property owners and social justice warriors, losers will be everyone else. It's a terrible deal, hope they stand strong and leave Merkel to deal with the problems she caused. Visegrad can forge a trade relationship with the post Brexit Britain and lots of other important global economies. Merkel and Europe can do one.

[steven100]

Germany made it's bed .....  it can lay in it.

[bert bloggs]

39 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Germany made it's bed .....  it can lay in it.

Looks as if they are going to make it the same way they did last time and vote for Merkal , more fools them .

[baboon]

I am just interested where this goes next: What if the countries involved simply ignore the ruling and tell the court to go f- themselves if fines or suchlike are levied? Would they be slung out of the EU? If not, what is the point of this legal action?

[zydeco]

30 minutes ago, baboon said:

I am just interested where this goes next: What if the countries involved simply ignore the ruling and tell the court to go f- themselves if fines or suchlike are levied? Would they be slung out of the EU? If not, what is the point of this legal action?

Apparently, the Poles have just told the EU to go pound sand. 

Quote

 

Poland will continue to refuse to accept migrants under a European Union relocation scheme despite a ruling by EU’s highest court that Brussels had the right to force member states to take in asylum seekers, Prime Minister Beata Szydlo said on Wednesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-poland-primeminister/polands-stance-on-migrants-unchanged-despite-eu-court-ruling-pm-idUSKCN1BH1GU

Edited September 7, 2017 by zydeco

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I am just interested where this goes next: What if the countries involved simply ignore the ruling and tell the court to go f- themselves if fines or suchlike are levied? Would they be slung out of the EU? If not, what is the point of this legal action?

 

AFAIK, they will fine them first. Then they will suspend the voting rights of those countries so they won't be able to vote for/against new legislation, policies, budgets etc. They will also restrict or stop the contributions they receive from EU funds, knowing all those countries take out far more than they contribute. Hit them in the pocket, and reduce member "benefits".

 

AFAIK, there is no current legal mechanism to vote a member state out.

[ELVIS123456]

4 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

The Visegrad block is a net "taker" of EU funds, which is probably why they joined in the 1st place. But, whatever financial hit they must take in the short term they need to leave the EU, if they are not allowed to maintain their heritage and culture. What is happening now is the millions of Africans and Arabs that Merkel invited unilaterally into Germany are proving way too much of a burden on society(ask any German - I asked many and consider myself well educated as to the realities on the ground in Germany) so Merkel is desperate to get rid of them, her political future depends on her being seen to act.

 Do the Visegrad countries really want huge encampments springing up around all transport hubs in the cities? Do the Visegrad people want females to be cowed into hiding at home like in many Parisian and Swedish districts that these migrants have overwhelmed and turned into carbon copies of the countries they came from? Who benefits from such a scenario, and more importantly who loses? Winners will be some property owners and social justice warriors, losers will be everyone else. It's a terrible deal, hope they stand strong and leave Merkel to deal with the problems she caused. Visegrad can forge a trade relationship with the post Brexit Britain and lots of other important global economies. Merkel and Europe can do one.

Through the greater Thai network of Expat husbands, I know several guys who live in Sweden and Denmark.  All of them have said that they hate what their politicians are doing to their communities by allowing uncontrolled unvetted and mainly muslim immigration. They have all said that the majority of people, especially women, agree and want it stopped.  And two of those guys are very left wing politically - we have had a few debates where we disagree, but on this issue we agree.

 

Dont be surprised when more European politicians start taking the 'right' line and look to exit the EU and take back their countries  - both to save their existing jobs or to get elected.  It will take years, but it is going to happen, because the EU Bureaucracy is mainly made up of liberal left-wing zealots.

 

The reality of politics in a Democracy is that the best 'method' is to regularly clean out the ruling Party - both left wing and right-wing. Once any 'ideology' is in power for too long and see it as a 'right', they start to go extreme. If the right wing gets too powerful, they abolish all Government involvement in people's lives, and create draconian Law & Order regulations, and we have 'armed soldiers' in charge.  If the left wing becomes too powerful, everything becomes about Government running people's lives, and Law and Order becomes weak and ineffective, and we have 'social justice warriors' in control.  Both sides are wrong when they get too powerful and complacent.  

 

The EU is currently a unaccountable unelected bunch of left-wing bureaucrats, who the people cannot change through elections. The only way to change it is to abolish/destroy it.

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by ELVIS123456

[anon4546543]

When the Chancellor of Germany invited hordes of itinerant illiterates to invade the Fatherland and Europe , was

it speaking on behalf of Germany or the EU. Either way, it seems that the filthy rich bureaucrats in Brussels have

interpreted that she spoke for all the EU countries, and goes to show who really is the new EU fuhrer. (leader) 

[baboon]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

AFAIK, they will fine them first. Then they will suspend the voting rights of those countries so they won't be able to vote for/against new legislation, policies, budgets etc. They will also restrict or stop the contributions they receive from EU funds, knowing all those countries take out far more than they contribute. Hit them in the pocket, and reduce member "benefits".

 

AFAIK, there is no current legal mechanism to vote a member state out.

Interesting.

But then if they start suspending voting rights, why would the countries concerned not just say 'Fine. We'll not enact the legislation in that case'?

[Ulic]

Don't really know what the big deal is . None of these migrants

want to live in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia etc.

They want the land of milk and honey, Germany. Sweden, Swiss,

etc... It does not matter where they are sent they will find there

way back.

[RichardColeman]

So if you are granted asylum to be an EU citizen, you can go and live anywhere in Europe  ? Right ? Even Poland  ? and other Eastern countries. I'd say to the EU countries that have problems - leave now before its too late.

[anon4546543]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

So if you are granted asylum to be an EU citizen, you can go and live anywhere in Europe  ? Right ? Even Poland  ? and other Eastern countries. I'd say to the EU countries that have problems - leave now before its too late.

Basically what you say about freedom of movement of EU citizens will be granted to these economic tourist "refugees" is my

understanding as well. I think that this issue may well be the start of the end of the EU. The cracks are turning into gaps as

everyone realises that only 2 countries now matter in the running of Europe. It used to be 3 but hopefully Brexit will happen

sooner than later. 

[Laughing Gravy]

Well done to the countries who stood up to the EU and the ECJ.  Where are those Europhiles on TV who constantly shout how the UK will be worse without the EU and how the EU seems to be supreme. Not a dictatorship at all. What a load of bull. The EU is a dictatorship telling sovereign countries what to do or else. looking forward to these remainers and Europhiles to try and polish this turd and make it shiny.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well done to the countries who stood up to the EU and the ECJ.  Where are those Europhiles on TV who constantly shout how the UK will be worse without the EU and how the EU seems to be supreme. Not a dictatorship at all. What a load of bull. The EU is a dictatorship telling sovereign countries what to do or else. looking forward to these remainers and Europhiles to try and polish this turd and make it shiny.

EU member countries would have had to agree to and ratify the various Treaties to become a member State. To then turn around and reject such obligations is contrary to their Treaty commitments. The Court ruling does not indicate a dictatorship by the EU. You and others may well want to understand the Court composition and the process for Judges to be appointed by member States, prior to further commentary.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

Basically what you say about freedom of movement of EU citizens will be granted to these economic tourist "refugees" is my

understanding as well. I think that this issue may well be the start of the end of the EU. The cracks are turning into gaps as

everyone realises that only 2 countries now matter in the running of Europe. It used to be 3 but hopefully Brexit will happen

sooner than later. 

And like lots of things that everybody knows, it's a belief that depends on ignorance to thrive.

[anon4546543]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And like lots of things that everybody knows, it's a belief that depends on ignorance to thrive.

What sort of reply is that? Refute by all means, don't just call everyone "ignorant" and you superior.

That is the attitude that has gotten Germany into so much catastrophe in the past. 

Mind you, your past posts do have an attitude that smacks of a superiority complex.

[ELVIS123456]

6 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

When the Chancellor of Germany invited hordes of itinerant illiterates to invade the Fatherland and Europe , was

it speaking on behalf of Germany or the EU. Either way, it seems that the filthy rich bureaucrats in Brussels have

interpreted that she spoke for all the EU countries, and goes to show who really is the new EU fuhrer. (leader) 

The EU has given Germany now, exactly what Hitler and von Bismark failed to do/hold - unvetted control and influence over the European Countries.  Germany currently runs the EU, and wants to keep it that way, so that their currency remains under-valued and their exports continue to boom.  More exports means you have more of the others money/wealth than they have of yours, and with that comes influence and control.  Merkel has lasted 10 years - almost as long as Hitler too.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, ELVIS123456 said:

The EU has given Germany now, exactly what Hitler and von Bismark failed to do/hold - unvetted control and influence over the European Countries.  Germany currently runs the EU, and wants to keep it that way, so that their currency remains under-valued and their exports continue to boom.  More exports means you have more of the others money/wealth than they have of yours, and with that comes influence and control.  Merkel has lasted 10 years - almost as long as Hitler too.

Exactly how does Germany run the EU? As you're probably not aware, not so long ago a province of Belgium - not even all of Belgium - held up the approval of a Treaty with Canada. I don't recall any news of the Wehrmacht invading Belgium to force this province to comply with German demands. In fact, this province negotiated a nice little deal for itself. If anything, it's way too easy for one tiny country or a fraction thereof, to veto actions that the overwhelming majority of EU nations, including Germany, support.

 

I do agree that the Euro is a bad idea and has inflicted hardship on some of the weaker nations in the EU and unfairly helped Germany. But whether we like it or not, the majority of EU citizens still want to keep it.  And keep in mind that the EU is not the same as the Eurozone. The UK, for one, is still a member of the former but never was of the latter.

[anon4546543]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Exactly how does Germany run the EU? As you're probably not aware, not so long ago a province of Belgium - not even all of Belgium - held up the approval of a Treaty with Canada. I don't recall any news of the Wehrmacht invading Belgium to force this province to comply with German demands. In fact, this province negotiated a nice little deal for itself. If anything, it's way too easy for one tiny country or a fraction thereof, to veto actions that the overwhelming majority of EU nations, including Germany, support.

 

I do agree that the Euro is a bad idea and has inflicted hardship on some of the weaker nations in the EU and unfairly helped Germany. But whether we like it or not, the majority of EU citizens still want to keep it.  And keep in mind that the EU is not the same as the Eurozone. The UK, for one, is still a member of the former but never was of the latter.

The first part of your commentary is easy to explain. Germany invites anyone from anywhere to "flee" to Germany.

Now she directs 

[anon4546543]

con't from last post. Brussels to spread the burden. Brussels threatens to impose sanctions on other 

countries if they do not comply with Merkels directive. That part is easy, I will get back to you on more.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, spiderorchid said:

The first part of your commentary is easy to explain. Germany invites anyone from anywhere to "flee" to Germany.

Now she directs 

Of course what you're saying is utter nonsense. There's a thing called google that actually lets you vet your assertions before you share them with others. You might try it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/01/11/germany-280000-new-migrants-last-year-far-lower-than-2015/96436502/

[anon4546543]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Of course what you're saying is utter nonsense. There's a thing called google that actually lets you vet your assertions before you share them with others. You might try it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/01/11/germany-280000-new-migrants-last-year-far-lower-than-2015/96436502/

You are joking. Right. Don't let statistics get in the way of. Merkel says please invade Germany from where ever you are from.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, spiderorchid said:

You are joking. Right. Don't let statistics get in the way of. Merkel says please invade Germany from where ever you are from.

I couldn't google Merkel saying anything like that. Why don't you share the link with us?

[anon4546543]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Of course what you're saying is utter nonsense. There's a thing called google that actually lets you vet your assertions before you share them with others. You might try it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/01/11/germany-280000-new-migrants-last-year-far-lower-than-2015/96436502/

Of course the flow of economic migrants is less today than 2 years ago. She has "seen the light" and wants to cut

the flow. Damage is already done. Go to a public space in Berlin and see the results. Economic tourist refugees will

now target other countries. Instead of fixing their own problems up. Too arrogant to do that though.