Businessman Sued over Holiday Home that Looks Like Temple Pavilion

[webfact]

Russia sanctions should be phased out if Ukraine ceasefire holds - Germany's Gabriel

 

German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel waves as he arrives for a meeting with French President before the first cabinet meeting after the summer break, at the Elysee Palace in Paris, France, August 30, 2017. REUTERS/Philippe Wojazer

 

BERLIN (Reuters) - European sanctions imposed on Russia over its role in the Ukraine crisis should be phased out gradually if an internationally agreed ceasefire deal was implemented, German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel said on Monday.

 

The conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists has claimed more than 10,000 lives since it erupted in 2014.

 

Germany and France have tried to convince both sides to implement a peace deal agreed in Minsk in 2015 but with little success.

 

"The official agreement is: Only if there is 100 percent peace, then we'll lift 100 percent of the sanctions," Gabriel said during a panel discussion organised by German business daily Handelsblatt in Berlin.

 

Gabriel said, from his point of view, this was a "totally unrealistic" position.

 

"We introduced the sanctions gradually and we'll lift them gradually - this is actually a commonly known fact," Gabriel said.

 

He said that if there was a lasting ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, then the United States probably would also be willing to take similar steps.

 

Gabriel is a senior member of Germany's Social Democrats (SPD), junior partners in Chancellor Angela Merkel's ruling coalition and historic advocates of dialogue with Russia. Germany is heading towards a Sept. 24 federal election.

 

Merkel has insisted that European sanctions against Russia could only be lifted if the Minsk peace deal was fully implemented - not only the ceasefire agreement which is one part of the broader Minsk peace plan.

 

Merkel and French President Emmanuel Macron last month called for Russia and Ukraine to increase their efforts to implement the fragile ceasefire.

 

Kiev accuses Moscow of sending troops and heavy weapons to the region, which Russia denies.

 

(Reporting by Sabine Siebold and Michael Nienaber; Editing by Alison Williams)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-12

[craigt3365]

How about phasing out the sanctions when Russian troops leave Ukrainian sovereign territory?

[retarius]

How do you square this with your support for US troops in Syria where US troops are there illegally and not at the request of the UN recognized government? What is the underlying consistent principle where people can intervene? If US citizens somewhere on the planet were being threatened by the official government could the US intervene, like it did in Iran? If the US can do it then why can't Russia?

 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

26 minutes ago, retarius said:

How do you square this with your support for US troops in Syria where US troops are there illegally and not at the request of the UN recognized government? What is the underlying consistent principle where people can intervene? If US citizens somewhere on the planet were being threatened by the official government could the US intervene, like it did in Iran? If the US can do it then why can't Russia?

Apples and oranges.  Ukraine isn't being taken over by a terrorist group...oops...I guess it is. LOL

 

But seriously, you can't compare the two.  Russia invaded a sovereign country.  Syria is a civil war...that's out of control with too many belligerents involved.  As for the recognized government, that's debateable. The Kurds are now being recognized. 

 

Iran was a total mess and should have never happened.  But you can't use that mistake as a reason to condone Russia's actions in Ukraine.  We'd descend into chaos if that logic was applied everywhere.

[Ron19]

An off topic troll post has been removed

[Thaidream]

General Clark is not a liar and he hit the nail on the head. the neo cons have wanted to invade the Middle East countries for years and 9/11 was the excuse to do this and Bush went along with it prodded by Cheney and Rumsfeld. Why Tony Blair brought the UK into this folly is still beyond my comprehension.  Surprise, Surprise- the same Cheney and Rumsfeld who have blood on their hands with the Vietnam War which Americans turned against when they realised they had been lied to and hoodwinked into believing America's national interests were at stake.

It's amazing how all these foreign policy experts in Washington are so eager to get the US into war and none of them ever have to fight the war. 

 

In reference to Russia  taking over Crimea- so what. It formally was Russian territory and Russia needs to secure their Naval Base. The problem is that the Nato powers were attempting to convince Ukraine to join Nato which forced Russia to act.  It was not that long ago that America almost went to war with Russia over the placement of Russian missiles in Cuba. Russia resents being  almost surrounded by Nato and drew their line at Ukraine. Now we have the American war machine revved up for a potential war on European soil with maneuvers in Poland and Estonia and the British military joining in as well as some of the other Nato countries.

Maybe we all ought to listen to John Lennon-  'Let's give Peace a Chance"!

 

 

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

General Clark is not a liar and he hit the nail on the head. the neo cons have wanted to invade the Middle East countries for years and 9/11 was the excuse to do this and Bush went along with it prodded by Cheney and Rumsfeld. Why Tony Blair brought the UK into this folly is still beyond my comprehension.  Surprise, Surprise- the same Cheney and Rumsfeld who have blood on their hands with the Vietnam War which Americans turned against when they realised they had been lied to and hoodwinked into believing America's national interests were at stake.

It's amazing how all these foreign policy experts in Washington are so eager to get the US into war and none of them ever have to fight the war. 

 

In reference to Russia  taking over Crimea- so what. It formally was Russian territory and Russia needs to secure their Naval Base. The problem is that the Nato powers were attempting to convince Ukraine to join Nato which forced Russia to act.  It was not that long ago that America almost went to war with Russia over the placement of Russian missiles in Cuba. Russia resents being  almost surrounded by Nato and drew their line at Ukraine. Now we have the American war machine revved up for a potential war on European soil with maneuvers in Poland and Estonia and the British military joining in as well as some of the other Nato countries.

Maybe we all ought to listen to John Lennon-  'Let's give Peace a Chance"!

Let's put this in the proper perspective.  Fighting has been going on in the Middle East for centuries.  Colonial powers have been there for a long time.  Causing all sorts of problems we are dealing with today.  9/11 was the reason for the invasion of Afghanistan.  A pretty good reason as they were harboring the mastermind of the attack.  You're comment is inaccurate.

 

So what?  Tell that to the citizens of Ukraine who've lost family members, homes, businesses, etc, due to the invasion by the Russians.  It was an invasion, plain and simple.  Thus, the sanctions imposed by a variety of countries.  Don't blame NATO for this.

 

Not that long ago?  The Cuban missile crisis was decades ago! LOL  And was nothing like what's happening in Ukraine today.  I've been to Maidan Square and seen the protests by the locals.  To say they aren't happy with Russia is an understatement.

 

How about this?

http://www.dw.com/en/russian-zapad-2017-drill-what-does-moscow-want/a-40428943

 

Quote

 

Russian 'Zapad-2017' drill – what does Moscow want?

The large "Zapad-2017" war games will pit the troops of Russia and Belarus against terrorist infiltrators from three "hypothetical" Eastern European countries.

 

However, NATO allies have repeatedly disputed these numbers, with German Defense Minister Ursula Von der Leyen claiming the real number is likely to be upwards of 100,000 troops. International accords mandate that countries provide a larger degree of transparency when holding drills with over 13,000 troops.

 

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

General Clark is not a liar and he hit the nail on the head. the neo cons have wanted to invade the Middle East countries for years and 9/11 was the excuse to do this and Bush went along with it prodded by Cheney and Rumsfeld. Why Tony Blair brought the UK into this folly is still beyond my comprehension.  Surprise, Surprise- the same Cheney and Rumsfeld who have blood on their hands with the Vietnam War which Americans turned against when they realised they had been lied to and hoodwinked into believing America's national interests were at stake.

It's amazing how all these foreign policy experts in Washington are so eager to get the US into war and none of them ever have to fight the war. 

 

In reference to Russia  taking over Crimea- so what. It formally was Russian territory and Russia needs to secure their Naval Base. The problem is that the Nato powers were attempting to convince Ukraine to join Nato which forced Russia to act.  It was not that long ago that America almost went to war with Russia over the placement of Russian missiles in Cuba. Russia resents being  almost surrounded by Nato and drew their line at Ukraine. Now we have the American war machine revved up for a potential war on European soil with maneuvers in Poland and Estonia and the British military joining in as well as some of the other Nato countries.

Maybe we all ought to listen to John Lennon-  'Let's give Peace a Chance"!

 

 

 

Russia isn't "surrounded" by NATO (hint: Kazakhstan, Mongolia, the PRC). Nobody "forced" Russia to do anything, can't always pick this "reasoning" when dealing with reactions by the likes of Putin or Kim. There were any number of ways to deal with the situation, the one picked is what it is, nothing more. Not inevitable, not necessarily the best.

 

Placing missiles in Cuba (which was what...50 years ago?) is not quite the same as the Ukraine situation. Far as I know there wasn't any talk of stationing similar missiles or nukes there. Carrying out maneuvers is the norm, and is further regulated by agreements between countries. Would have been more objective if there was a reference to Russia's own massive war games near the border. 

 

Posters talk a lot about "war machine" etc., usually in the context of the US. Worth bearing in mind that similar groups (or motivations) exist in Russia, the PRC and other countries.

 

Maybe we ought to stop placing all the responsibility for peace efforts on the same players, over and over again.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

"The official agreement is: Only if there is 100 percent peace, then we'll lift 100 percent of the sanctions,"

They should use the RTP method of completion - 80% complete and still 90% remaining.

[Ron19]

Another off topic post has been removed